[Monster Set] Mighty Chudan is stupid. Let's fix it.

Alucardo

For a while now Chudan has been a pretty underwhelming set. It was so bad ZOS was forced to add a bonus max health to the current 2pc (Apply major resolve at all times). Let's be real here for a second, Major Resolve is a pretty common buff every class has simple access to which is why this set was so underutilised.
To make it worse, the 1pc is getting halved in Greymoor. That's right, one of the stupidest monster sets in the game is getting nerfed. Now I understand that from a consistency point of view, but I also feel like Chudan should be buffed to compensate.
Here's what I propose:

- Keep the Major Resolve
- You have 6% chance when taking damage to unleash a devastating cry, taunting all nearby enemies and taking 5% less damage from them for 10 seconds. This applies to ALL NPC monsters.
- You also receive 1.2k critical resistance during the 10 second window

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Major_Lag

Careful what you wish for.
After ZOS is done "fixing" it, it'll only be good for its decon materials or for RP purposes, same as with most of the other sets they have "fixed" over the years.

Rave the Histborn

Alucardo wrote: »

For a while now Chudan has been a pretty underwhelming set. It was so bad ZOS was forced to add a bonus max health to the current 2pc (Apply major resolve at all times). Let's be real here for a second, Major Resolve is a pretty common buff every class has simple access to which is why this set was so underutilised.
To make it worse, the 1pc is getting halved in Greymoor. That's right, one of the stupidest monster sets in the game is getting nerfed. Now I understand that from a consistency point of view, but I also feel like Chudan should be buffed to compensate.
Here's what I propose:

- Keep the Major Resolve
- You have 6% chance when taking damage to unleash a devastating cry, taunting all nearby enemies and taking 5% less damage from them for 10 seconds. This applies to ALL NPC monsters.
- You also receive 1.2k critical resistance during the 10 second window

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

LOL so you think Chudan is useless when in reality it's always been a great set and your proposal is actually making it the most useless set in the game. You'd sacrifice the utility of the set for less then mediocre damage reduction and a further unnecessary group taunt. Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Langeston

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Charon_on_Vacation

the idea is not bad and some improvement to the set would be nice, but the less procs we have, the better.
i'd just go ahead and remove major resolve and give it a static bonus to resistances.

Rave the Histborn

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

sekou_trayvond

The set isn't useless, per se. More build dependent, I'd say. It is quite nice on my frost tank to save bar space/resources and my WW VMA build considers it a must. YMMV, I suppose.

Mortiis13

It wasn't useless i run it on magro since the armor buff skill is a waste of a slot and I'm also be able to use 2 Stat buff food and be able to run another better skill on the bar for more utilize or dmg or heal (all from pvp perspective)

But when it gets nerved it's not worth anymore and makes no sense at all its a major buff and not a addative buff.

ElliottXO

I'm using this set to simply free up a skill slot on my main bar, which just gives so much more flexibility. And because other tank oriented sets were also not that convincing to me.

Anyway, with the patch it's gonna be Tremorscale or go home. So no need to discuss other sets anymore unless they change that.

The_Old_Goat

Mass taunting in eso would be a historically stupid mistake, no thanks.

Alucardo

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

I'm assuming they didn't read a majority of it considering they think I'm making people sacrifice something, when I want it kept the same but with a couple of added bonuses...

Alucardo

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

You sound legitimately angry and I can't understand why. Just so we're clear here, I was never asking to take anything away from the set. But considering its only real bonus is a basic buff available to every class AND the 1pc is getting halved, I'm asking for something more from it.

Alucardo

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Mass taunting in eso would be a historically stupid mistake, no thanks.

Not that I don't believe you, but generally when people use the words "historically" and "stupid mistake" I'm expecting examples. You've given me an unfounded argument that I can't even begin to respond to.

MartiniDaniels

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

Seriously? So Bloodspawn with 6% chance to grant resistances for 6 seconds was considered best for years, but 6% for 1.2k crit resistance for 10 second is useless?
1.2k crit resistance = 18% decrease of crit damage, which given 10 second duration is comparable to bloodspawn bonus to resistances (though depends on build of course). And on top of that extra health and major resolve. I think what OP suggests will make Chudan new best well-rounded set. As for the taunt it is PVE feature, and in PVP I think you can use it in synergy with taunt sets. (for niche builds of course, but who knows what can come out of it)

Alucardo

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

Seriously? So Bloodspawn with 6% chance to grant resistances for 6 seconds was considered best for years, but 6% for 1.2k crit resistance for 10 second is useless?
1.2k crit resistance = 18% decrease of crit damage, which given 10 second duration is comparable to bloodspawn bonus to resistances (though depends on build of course). And on top of that extra health and major resolve. I think what OP suggests will make Chudan new best well-rounded set. As for the taunt it is PVE feature, and in PVP I think you can use it in synergy with taunt sets. (for niche builds of course, but who knows what can come out of it)

I think they underestimate how strong 1.2k crit resists are, and the amount of mitigation it actually provides. Not only that, but with the base crit resistance in Greymoor, you could essentially run whatever trait you wanted on your gear.
So while wearing Chudan you save a slot on your bar for resistance buff, and free up armor traits, get some max health and a little base resistance from the 1pc. It's an all-in-one defence set, suitable for both PvE and PvP.

Rave the Histborn

Alucardo wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

You sound legitimately angry and I can't understand why. Just so we're clear here, I was never asking to take anything away from the set. But considering its only real bonus is a basic buff available to every class AND the 1pc is getting halved, I'm asking for something more from it.

The point of the set is the basic buff that's available to everyone. Its meant to be able to slot a different skill and use the helm set in its place to increase build versatility. I don't understand why you think I'm angry, you just need to understand why the set exists before you make posts about how it needs fixing and changing.

ElliottXO

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Mass taunting in eso would be a historically stupid mistake, no thanks.

Not that I don't believe you, but generally when people use the words "historically" and "stupid mistake" I'm expecting examples. You've given me an unfounded argument that I can't even begin to respond to.

All group content of ESO has been designed around only having a single target taunt.

Games with mass taunt usually have different mechanics to keep the challenge up (e.g. aggro meter). ESO has only the state 'taunted' or 'not taunted'. The challenge in ESO is to maintain the status 'taunted' across multiple mobs. With a mass taunt in place there would be no challenge at all.

This is a design by choice, and I appreciate it a lot being a tank.

Alucardo

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

You sound legitimately angry and I can't understand why. Just so we're clear here, I was never asking to take anything away from the set. But considering its only real bonus is a basic buff available to every class AND the 1pc is getting halved, I'm asking for something more from it.

The point of the set is the basic buff that's available to everyone. Its meant to be able to slot a different skill and use the helm set in its place to increase build versatility. I don't understand why you think I'm angry, you just need to understand why the set exists before you make posts about how it needs fixing and changing.

Thing is, the class major resolve generally comes with additional benefits. For example, Necro's beckoning armor to pull in ranged mobs, or the passives DKs get with Volatile/Hardened armor, Hurricane+Surge, etc.
There needs to be an additional benefit to using the major resolve given by Chudan, otherwise you're giving up a monster set for a very generic buff.

Rave the Histborn

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

Seriously? So Bloodspawn with 6% chance to grant resistances for 6 seconds was considered best for years, but 6% for 1.2k crit resistance for 10 second is useless?
1.2k crit resistance = 18% decrease of crit damage, which given 10 second duration is comparable to bloodspawn bonus to resistances (though depends on build of course). And on top of that extra health and major resolve. I think what OP suggests will make Chudan new best well-rounded set. As for the taunt it is PVE feature, and in PVP I think you can use it in synergy with taunt sets. (for niche builds of course, but who knows what can come out of it)

Bloodspawn's ult generation was the the big point of the set. The tankiness helped keep you alive but the ult allowed you to set up when to counter with your burst. If bloodspawn was just a proc chance with armor it wouldn't be best in slot because there's other sets that would perform better defensively. The same idea would go for this hypothetical Chudan set

Alucardo

ElliottXO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Mass taunting in eso would be a historically stupid mistake, no thanks.

Not that I don't believe you, but generally when people use the words "historically" and "stupid mistake" I'm expecting examples. You've given me an unfounded argument that I can't even begin to respond to.

All group content of ESO has been designed around only having a single target taunt.

Games with mass taunt usually have different mechanics to keep the challenge up (e.g. aggro meter). ESO has only the state 'taunted' or 'not taunted'. The challenge in ESO is to maintain the status 'taunted' across multiple mobs. With a mass taunt in place there would be no challenge at all.

This is a design by choice, and I appreciate it a lot being a tank.

I don't main tank, I only play it when I have to PvE, so I won't pretend to know what PvE tanks want. If it's not an AOE taunt then I'd be happy to change the bonus on the set suggestion.

MartiniDaniels

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the troll tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

Seriously? So Bloodspawn with 6% chance to grant resistances for 6 seconds was considered best for years, but 6% for 1.2k crit resistance for 10 second is useless?
1.2k crit resistance = 18% decrease of crit damage, which given 10 second duration is comparable to bloodspawn bonus to resistances (though depends on build of course). And on top of that extra health and major resolve. I think what OP suggests will make Chudan new best well-rounded set. As for the taunt it is PVE feature, and in PVP I think you can use it in synergy with taunt sets. (for niche builds of course, but who knows what can come out of it)

Bloodspawn's ult generation was the the big point of the set. The tankiness helped keep you alive but the ult allowed you to set up when to counter with your burst. If bloodspawn was just a proc chance with armor it wouldn't be best in slot because there's other sets that would perform better defensively. The same idea would go for this hypothetical Chudan set

Bloodspawn was good because of combination of factors and not only because of ultigen. This 6% may look unreliable on paper, but in practice it was huge difference. Even in 1v1 it had decent uptime and if outnumbered it was proccing non-stop.

shimm

Why not just make the Chudan buff a straight armor buff (like the lord warden buff) but make it less than the 5k major resolve buff? I’d use it.

Alucardo

shimm wrote: »

Why not just make the Chudan buff a straight armor buff (like the lord warden buff) but make it less than the 5k major resolve buff? I’d use it.

I think some people like the major resolve it gives because it opens a slot on their bar. Can't imagine they'd be too happy if you removed that option.

gp1680

Agree with most posters that Chudan is good for freeing up a bar slot. The extra health was helpful in PvP too. I wish they weren’t nerfing the one piece bonus next patch, but ehhh that’s ZOS for you. I’d prefer they leave it as is, no buffs, no nerfs.

Vildebill

I'm all up for changing it to something useful, it's pretty bad as it is now.

The only argument I'll ever accept to use chudan is to free up a slot, and that is only in solo or PvP. Otherwise the set is bad, and it still surprises me that some people think it's good for tanking when all other sources of major resolve is better.

EvilAutoTech

I like and use Chudan the way it is, when the situation calls for it.

My tanks carry Chudan and Tremorscale plus an offensive monster set for exploration.

Luckylancer

This set's job is freeing a skill slot in your bar and give you 1 global cd every X secs depending on class. Mighty Chudan is not meant to be used on every class because some classes have very big auxiliary effects on their mojor resolve skills.

I agree Chudan is weak set for most classes. But your suggestion sare not in line with set's original design.

If they add nerfed armor on 5 pc, people will use this set to get tanky (especialy magsorcs) and there will be tanks in cyrodill that zos hate so much these days.

My buff idea: whever you get another source of major resolve and ward, you gain minor resolve and ward for it's duration. Minor armor buffs are weak but hard to access. This weak buff may be niche for brawler NB builds and maybe for a few other classes too.

Alucardo

Luckylancer wrote: »

This set's job is freeing a skill slot in your bar and give you 1 global cd every X secs depending on class. Mighty Chudan is not meant to be used on every class because some classes have very big auxiliary effects on their mojor resolve skills.

I agree Chudan is weak set for most classes. But your suggestion sare not in line with set's original design.

If they add nerfed armor on 5 pc, people will use this set to get tanky (especialy magsorcs) and there will be tanks in cyrodill that zos hate so much these days.

My buff idea: whever you get another source of major resolve and ward, you gain minor resolve and ward for it's duration. Minor armor buffs are weak but hard to access. This weak buff may be niche for brawler NB builds and maybe for a few other classes too.

Does it have a design though? I mean it just gives you a basic buff. To me the "design" is defence, and you're still getting that. Your suggestion is pretty nice, though it would feel weird still slotting major resolve and using it when I already have it active 100% of the time. The main point of the set is you don't need to do that.

Sanctum74

Its far from underwhelming or stupid, id argue one of the best defensive sets in the game. It saves a skill slot and a global cool down. Gives you 100% major resolve uptime as well as additional resistance and health making it almost impossible to get gangked and allows you to stay on the offensive.

Langeston

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Not only that you for some reason decide you tack on a 2nd bonus that has nothing to do with how the set works. Do you think pvpers are suddenly going to want a mass taunt in pvp?

Reread the third paragraph in the OP.

Yes I gave it two buffs, but they obviously won't work together, making it a useful PvE and PvP set. Feel free to adjust the values. As it stands, I can't see anybody in their right mind using this set in Greymoor. There's just so many better options out there.

Again, do you think PVPers are going to want a mass taunt? The 1.2k crit resistance isn't worth acknowledging because no one in pvp is going to seriously consider an uncontrollable burst impen buff beyond the[snip] tank builds that they're trying to stop.

The OP is just tagging on abilities for the sake of pvp and pve and it would cause each of these "buffs" to perform poorly.

[snip]

NO — PVPers are not going to want an AOE taunt. But you are the only person implying that the OP thinks they would. In fact, the OP specifically made it a point to acknowledge that that particular feature would be worthless to PVPers — just like the crit resistance would be worthless in PVE.

The whole point the OP was making is that the set would offer something tailored specifically for both PVE and PVP, rather than catering to just one or the other like some monster sets tend to do — and before you ask, no I am not suggesting that Chudan does that right now as it is.

Would I want it to do exactly what the OP suggested? No, I think the idea would need tweaked, and I'm not even sure I'd personally want it changed. But it's an interesting idea, and I can see it working with a few changes.

[snip]

[edited for baiting and bashing]

xaraan

This set was not useless by far, it's actually a very under-appreciated set IMO on live right now. Though I will say the one piece bonus getting nearly cut in half will hurt it, so at most I'd add a little more to the two-piece, just not what OP chose.

Don't like the mass taunt option and I don't see them adding a tanky crit resist buff for pvp use with all the tank set slaughter they just unleashed.

Something minimal like a 5% block cost reduction or small health regen bonus, etc. Even where it will be after Greymoor, it will still serve the same niche use it does now: a set that saves bar space and resources (from not having to cast your own buff) while also giving some extra mit and health. It will just be a bit harder to justify based on the loss of the extra mit now.