battlegrounds group queue solution

Noctus

i dont see any problem in 2 ppl grouping up and play with ppl who are solo.

but anything above that should be put in another queue (yes u better find a 4th player if u are 3 ppl. shouldnt be to hard its an mmo no ?). So solo ppl dont have to put up with premades and premades can fight other premades.

Like if u agree bump it up so devs can see.

the only ppl who would disagree to this are the skilless ones that group up only to pugstomp.

Taunky

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

MurderMostFoul

I think the issue with the separate group queue option is low population and queue times.

So, why not remove MMR from the group queue, and make it 4v4? That'll allow matchmaking to go a lot faster.

Berek_Bloodfang

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I think the issue with the separate group queue option is low population and queue times.

So, why not remove MMR from the group queue, and make it 4v4? That'll allow matchmaking to go a lot faster.

It's really not that complicated, you just average the (4) players MMR by adding all players rating and dividing by four, that will give you the teams rating, you then have it search for teams with similar score... It's been done in thousands of other games, I can't honestly understand why ZoS can't figure it out.

Firstmep

Taunky wrote: »

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

There isn't a big enough player base for that.
Don't get me wrong, this is mainly on Zeni, BGs have been a series of bad decisions since their inception.
I still understand for example why we have domination, when crazy king is literally the same mode but 100x better.
Also no cp puts off a lot of ppl, even if it's generally more enjoyable to those who actually play it.
Add in the myriad of issues with matchmaking, like even right now every other bg I'm in has at least one team with less people. Its not unusual to have 1 team with only 2 players and the game would still start.
Cherry on top the fact that pvp has been on downward slope in ESO for years.
I could go on, but I think you'll get the picture.
Edit: Forgot to the add the complete garbage rewards, cyrodiil at least rotated rewards, even have crafted sets now.
BGs still have the same couple of sets, most of which aren't even used anymore.

MurderMostFoul

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I think the issue with the separate group queue option is low population and queue times.

So, why not remove MMR from the group queue, and make it 4v4? That'll allow matchmaking to go a lot faster.

It's really not that complicated, you just average the (4) players MMR by adding all players rating and dividing by four, that will give you the teams rating, you then have it search for teams with similar score... It's been done in thousands of other games, I can't honestly understand why ZoS can't figure it out.

I'm not saying mmr is hard, I'm saying it can be an impediment to making matches when the population is low, one that could be removed for the sake of faster queue times in a group only queue.

Berek_Bloodfang

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I think the issue with the separate group queue option is low population and queue times.

So, why not remove MMR from the group queue, and make it 4v4? That'll allow matchmaking to go a lot faster.

It's really not that complicated, you just average the (4) players MMR by adding all players rating and dividing by four, that will give you the teams rating, you then have it search for teams with similar score... It's been done in thousands of other games, I can't honestly understand why ZoS can't figure it out.

I'm not saying mmr is hard, I'm saying it can be an impediment to making matches when the population is low, one that could be removed for the sake of faster queue times in a group only queue.

So look, all they need to do is average out the MMR per team like I mentioned before, and then every second they are in a queue the MMR number either raises or lowers by 1 per second to match the other teams currently queued... Example below.

Team 1
Player 1: 500 MR
Player 2: 300 MR
Player 3: 800 MR
Player 4: 600 MR

Team MR: 500+300+800+600 / 4 = 550 MR



Team 2
Player 1: 800 MR
Player 2: 800 MR
Player 3: 800 MR
Player 4: 800 MR

Team MR: 800+800+800+800 / 4 = 800 MR



Team 1's MR starts out 550 then the system checks available teams, it finds Team 2 who's MR is 800, while queued it continues searching however the MR of each seem slowly increases or decreases by 1 per second.

Team 1 becomes 551, then 552, etc..

Team 2 becomes 799, 778 etc...

Until either other teams with a similar MR match up or until the MR is close enough for the system to deem the match should start.

Boom done, fast queue times, balanced teams, etc.

MurderMostFoul

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I think the issue with the separate group queue option is low population and queue times.

So, why not remove MMR from the group queue, and make it 4v4? That'll allow matchmaking to go a lot faster.

It's really not that complicated, you just average the (4) players MMR by adding all players rating and dividing by four, that will give you the teams rating, you then have it search for teams with similar score... It's been done in thousands of other games, I can't honestly understand why ZoS can't figure it out.

I'm not saying mmr is hard, I'm saying it can be an impediment to making matches when the population is low, one that could be removed for the sake of faster queue times in a group only queue.

So look, all they need to do is average out the MMR per team like I mentioned before, and then every second they are in a queue the MMR number either raises or lowers by 1 per second to match the other teams currently queued... Example below.

Team 1
Player 1: 500 MR
Player 2: 300 MR
Player 3: 800 MR
Player 4: 600 MR

Team MR: 500+300+800+600 / 4 = 550 MR



Team 2
Player 1: 800 MR
Player 2: 800 MR
Player 3: 800 MR
Player 4: 800 MR

Team MR: 800+800+800+800 / 4 = 800 MR



Team 1's MR starts out 550 then the system checks available teams, it finds Team 2 who's MR is 800, while queued it continues searching however the MR of each seem slowly increases or decreases by 1 per second.

Team 1 becomes 551, then 552, etc..

Team 2 becomes 799, 778 etc...

Until either other teams with a similar MR match up or until the MR is close enough for the system to deem the match should start.

Boom done, fast queue times, balanced teams, etc.

Again, I was not starting there is anything confusing or difficult about basic matchmaking principles. And there has been some evidence that ZOS is using a group average MMR for matchmaking since converting to solo queue only.

What I don't understand though, is if you are suggesting this should be implemented for a queue that is for groups only, or if you are saying they should implement this in a queue that is for groups and solos.

If you are saying this could be implemented for a queue that is for groups only, my concern is that there would simply not be enough people queuing at the same time to allowed this type of matchmaking to function quickly. If there is literally an average of 3 to 6 groups queuing, there would be no reason to make people wait for skill based matchmaking. That is why I suggested to remove MMR from a group only queue, and to consider making it 4v4 instead of 4v4v4 if the population is very low.

If you are saying they should implement such a system in a queue allows groups and solos to queue together, it doesn't account for the advantage an organized group has over a group of randomly matched solos. ZOS tried to account for this advantage when group queuing was allowed by artificially inflating the group's MMR, but apparently they did not believe it was an adequate solution. My own experience with group queuing after MMR inflation was instituted involved very long queue times.

Jeremy

Noctus wrote: »

i dont see any problem in 2 ppl grouping up and play with ppl who are solo.

but anything above that should be put in another queue (yes u better find a 4th player if u are 3 ppl. shouldnt be to hard its an mmo no ?). So solo ppl dont have to put up with premades and premades can fight other premades.

Like if u agree bump it up so devs can see.

the only ppl who would disagree to this are the skilless ones that group up only to pugstomp.

This hasn't fixed the problem, anyway. I'm still encountering pre-mades, so they have found a way around the solo queue. Not sure how, but they have.

They need both, a group queue and a solo queue. That way only those who queue up in groups are matched up against other groups and solo queues are matched up with solo queues only. It's just too much of a advantage for an organized team to be matched against a pug.

Jeremy

Taunky wrote: »

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

They need both. Because pre-made groups are still getting into the solo queue somehow.. Maybe they all queue up at once or something. It seems worse earlier in the day too - probably because they are less players waiting in line so the odds of them all getting into one together is higher.

People say MMR is the problem. It's not. It's pre-made groups.

clocksstoppe

Jeremy wrote: »

Taunky wrote: »

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

They need both. Because pre-made groups are still getting into the solo queue somehow.. Maybe they all queue up at once or something. It seems worse earlier in the day too - probably because they are less players waiting in line so the odds of them all getting into one together is higher.

People say MMR is the problem. It's not. It's pre-made groups.

Yep, they just all queue at once and get matched together. Saw it myself. Pathetic.

Firstmep

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Taunky wrote: »

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

They need both. Because pre-made groups are still getting into the solo queue somehow.. Maybe they all queue up at once or something. It seems worse earlier in the day too - probably because they are less players waiting in line so the odds of them all getting into one together is higher.

People say MMR is the problem. It's not. It's pre-made groups.

Yep, they just all queue at once and get matched together. Saw it myself. Pathetic.

It's pretty obvious when you see the same 3-4 ppl from the same guild on the same team multiple matches in a row xD

RezecNoble_ESO

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Taunky wrote: »

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

They need both. Because pre-made groups are still getting into the solo queue somehow.. Maybe they all queue up at once or something. It seems worse earlier in the day too - probably because they are less players waiting in line so the odds of them all getting into one together is higher.

People say MMR is the problem. It's not. It's pre-made groups.

Yep, they just all queue at once and get matched together. Saw it myself. Pathetic.

Why do people like you play an MMO? Its pathetic for friends and guild mates to want to play together in GROUP content? People like you are the problem, being so anti-social in an MMORPG that you can't find friends or join a guild so you whine until they implement a system that sends guilds and friends away from the game. Most of us play an MMO to group with our friends. Your better off player a single player game or stand in town dueling.

Xebov

Taunky wrote: »

I just don't understand why they can't have two separate queues - one for solo players and one specifically for groups.

Because the population is not big enought. PvP is not beginner friendly. Most ppl dive in and then never come back because of this. Having a group queue would likely have high wait times and not everyone would be happy, you eitehr would end up requiring 4 players (which would make 2 and 3 player groups angry) or have some ugly inbetweens.

I understand that players want groups, but lets be real here. If this is going to happen the population for BGs has to increase, this however would require better rewards and big improvements for PvP in terms of accessibility and balancing. This would also require some of the more powerful players to loose some of their power to make the gap for players smaller. Now as i know the forums by now i also know that power is more important to some players than a broader more balanced player base.