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The new Vampire changes should've had 2 more skill lines. [Repost]
Nova_J
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[Posted this in general discussion but felt like I should move it here.]
Overall, I really understand the idea behind the new vamp changes, I really do. You want to change the narrative that vamps are about more than just passives, and I agree with that. But ZOS, the changes that have been implemented are far too linear in its setup. Outside of dps roles these skills cant even be used and the stages cant even be progressed without severe consequences.
You guys took to the balancing of vampires like they are a 3 skill tree class. A 5% increase to abilities at stage 1? Okay. 10% at stage 2? Wow. 15% at stage 3 and 20% at stage 4?? At first I thought "Well damn the skills must be awesome and really versatile for stats like this" and you know what, they arent bad. But only if you are a dps, and only if you stay at stage 1.
Where was the thought for healers and tanks? Vampires are known for excelling in ALL areas, not just as dps. Or magicka dps more specifically.
These changes are a smack in the face for anyone that want to enjoy being a full vampire while simultaneously playing the role that they wished.
I personally like playing at stage 4 at all times, and that's because to ME that is the pinnacle of vampiric form. The passives and all that were secondary to me and only helped pushed that fantasy that I envisioned for my toon. One thing that I appreciated about the live version is that it leaves you with so much flexibility and allows the player to dream a little. And yes that sounds cheesy as hell but you all know what I mean. Most people who play eso I think have let their imagination wander at least once, making a dope looking character with an awesome background/ fantasy that you dreamed up. And I think the devs know this, otherwise they wouldn't have put so much effort into the looks and animations of the skills etc.
So it's a problem for me when the devs say that "we want players to pick which stage they play in" but then make it so the only place for support roles are at stage one. And then take it further and make only 2 of those abilities even usable for them. Mist form and drain is the only thing I could see a tank or healer using, and mist form doesnt even allow you to cast spells while toggled.
So...really what they meant was only dps can choose what stage they are in, anyone else can stay at stage 1 or kick rocks.
If this is the route ZOS wants vamps to go, meaning they want then to mainly use vampiric skills that's perfectly fine. But you gotta give us more skills to use then, I would have zero problems with the new system if they had viable options for healing and tanks beyond stage 1. As of matter of fact I would be ecstatic! This means I would be able to delve even further into my little vamp world while simultaneously doing what ZOS envisioned and using more vampire skills.
Just imagining if we had vampire healer skills that had earthgore type effects, it would be awesome.
And yes, I know that ZOS probably wont do anything anywhere near what I'm asking for, but it's just a bitter pill to swallow knowing that I may have to reduce my toon to a level 1 newborn vamp just to keep playing him.
It's like having a star wars game where you can be a jedi but have to stay at padawan rank because being a Jedi Master would make your character unusable. And at the same time the padawan can have ALL the abilities as the Master without the risk.
That was a nerdy example, but its accurate to what's happening with these changes.
But alright, my mitching is done, do you guys feel the same? Do you think that having more skills would make alot more sense with the new pts vamp changes?
Overall, I really understand the idea behind the new vamp changes, I really do. You want to change the narrative that vamps are about more than just passives, and I agree with that. But ZOS, the changes that have been implemented are far too linear in its setup. Outside of dps roles these skills cant even be used and the stages cant even be progressed without severe consequences.
You guys took to the balancing of vampires like they are a 3 skill tree class. A 5% increase to abilities at stage 1? Okay. 10% at stage 2? Wow. 15% at stage 3 and 20% at stage 4?? At first I thought "Well damn the skills must be awesome and really versatile for stats like this" and you know what, they arent bad. But only if you are a dps, and only if you stay at stage 1.
Where was the thought for healers and tanks? Vampires are known for excelling in ALL areas, not just as dps. Or magicka dps more specifically.
These changes are a smack in the face for anyone that want to enjoy being a full vampire while simultaneously playing the role that they wished.
I personally like playing at stage 4 at all times, and that's because to ME that is the pinnacle of vampiric form. The passives and all that were secondary to me and only helped pushed that fantasy that I envisioned for my toon. One thing that I appreciated about the live version is that it leaves you with so much flexibility and allows the player to dream a little. And yes that sounds cheesy as hell but you all know what I mean. Most people who play eso I think have let their imagination wander at least once, making a dope looking character with an awesome background/ fantasy that you dreamed up. And I think the devs know this, otherwise they wouldn't have put so much effort into the looks and animations of the skills etc.
So it's a problem for me when the devs say that "we want players to pick which stage they play in" but then make it so the only place for support roles are at stage one. And then take it further and make only 2 of those abilities even usable for them. Mist form and drain is the only thing I could see a tank or healer using, and mist form doesnt even allow you to cast spells while toggled.
So...really what they meant was only dps can choose what stage they are in, anyone else can stay at stage 1 or kick rocks.
If this is the route ZOS wants vamps to go, meaning they want then to mainly use vampiric skills that's perfectly fine. But you gotta give us more skills to use then, I would have zero problems with the new system if they had viable options for healing and tanks beyond stage 1. As of matter of fact I would be ecstatic! This means I would be able to delve even further into my little vamp world while simultaneously doing what ZOS envisioned and using more vampire skills.
Just imagining if we had vampire healer skills that had earthgore type effects, it would be awesome.
And yes, I know that ZOS probably wont do anything anywhere near what I'm asking for, but it's just a bitter pill to swallow knowing that I may have to reduce my toon to a level 1 newborn vamp just to keep playing him.
It's like having a star wars game where you can be a jedi but have to stay at padawan rank because being a Jedi Master would make your character unusable. And at the same time the padawan can have ALL the abilities as the Master without the risk.
That was a nerdy example, but its accurate to what's happening with these changes.
But alright, my mitching is done, do you guys feel the same? Do you think that having more skills would make alot more sense with the new pts vamp changes?
3
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Totally agree.
For PvP I can at least cut my losses by curing my vampire healers, avoiding the 20% non-vamp ability increase, and offsetting the sustain loss by replacing impen gear with divines or infused (because of the new Greymoor crit resist baseline).
For PvE, however, you outlined it well, @Nova_J.
Support roles only have a few vamp skills they can use. Which means gimping themselves by staying at Stage 1 or getting out of the vampire business entirely.2 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭I don't think the skills are that great even for dps. The design of the passive incentives using all the vampire skills; however, the vampire skills are not effective at all and the health cost high risk gameplay is very unattractive in PvP, not to mention no health recovery. Why was drain essence renamed instead of replaced, the skill was fundamentally useless in PvP. It's just really bad imo and it sucks because I had such high hopes for this. Don't get me wrong though, I love the graphics, the theme, and I appreciate what they're trying to do. I only wish the kit had been satisfying and fully functional like the werewolves.1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone who mains stamblade and has played a vampire cutthroat in oblivion/Skyrim/eso personally I would love a stamina skill tree dedicated to vampires or some stamina morphs because I would be totally down for a stamina vampire build2 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »As someone who mains stamblade and has played a vampire cutthroat in oblivion/Skyrim/eso personally I would love a stamina skill tree dedicated to vampires or some stamina morphs because I would be totally down for a stamina vampire build
Indeed, they should've definitely had more stamina morphs or had the spammable scale with highest stat.1 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭I don't think the skills are that great even for dps. The design of the passive incentives using all the vampire skills; however, the vampire skills are not effective at all and the health cost high risk gameplay is very unattractive in PvP, not to mention no health recovery. Why was drain essence renamed instead of replaced, the skill was fundamentally useless in PvP. It's just really bad imo and it sucks because I had such high hopes for this. Don't get me wrong though, I love the graphics, the theme, and I appreciate what they're trying to do. I only wish the kit had been satisfying and fully functional like the werewolves.
Honestly, in the dlcs dungeons sometimes pulling even the slightest aggro or taking any damage if you're not a tank can kill you. If you have to play at half health to be effective or can only be effective while not being able to be healed by your teammates then its over. Theres a reason why healers are in the game lol, and that's because not every class can self sustain through everything and with these new vamp changes very few are going to use it. Or everyone is just going to stay at stage 1. Either way both are counter productive.1