Monster Sets for stamina - time for something new?

Raudgrani

Literally since I started playing, we have had the following viable options for stamina DD's, if you want damage: Velidreth, Selene, Stormfist. I can't really recall anyone using anything else, if you want damage at least. While these might be all good and such, I feel it's about time we had something new and clever. It doesn't need to have any significantly higher damage, but something with a little more flavor to it, some kind of additional utility perhaps? We have Maarselok as a new set, but I've never tried it, and now bash damage is being nerfed too - so it doesn't feel really interesting at all.

We had Zaan kind of "recently", and I don't really play magicka DD, but I've understood it's pretty much "Bis" for mag DD's(?). This discussion perhaps applies to magicka as well, but I feel stamina is really outdated when it comes to monster sets. I always use Velidreth, because it seems to kick in most often, and you have three "balls" dealing damage - instead of one "coward bear" (as I call it, because it seems to always proc the same second your target goes down!). I carry all three sets on my DD's, but tend to never switch.

Runefang

Ehh its worse for Mag DD, Zaan is great for dummy humping fights but generally most classes run two single crit pieces instead. So you could go from 3 decent choices (Maarselok was BiS by the way but will be useless next patch) and not getting to even run a monster set.

Iskiab

Runefang wrote: »

Ehh its worse for Mag DD, Zaan is great for dummy humping fights but generally most classes run two single crit pieces instead. So you could go from 3 decent choices (Maarselok was BiS by the way but will be useless next patch) and not getting to even run a monster set.

Yea this, pure stat pieces are almost as good or usually better than monster sets, especially in PvE.

I think it’s because they’re worried about pay to win complaints? If they release a new better monster set someone will complain. For whatever reason rotation and CPs >>>>>>> gear. Even in pvp the new best sets are all crafted.

MashmalloMan

Maarselok is still best in slot in many ways and the bash nerfs have nothing to do with how well this set performs. In a trial scenario, Maarselok can get up to 18000 dmg done every 7s to enemies in an aoe cone. The catch is the set requires a level of skill in that you need to proc it yourself instead of an automatic proc chance present on other sets, as well as requiring a trial to fully boost the damage potential. It's clear this set was made to be an end game set that offers reward with practice.

Bash is meerly a tool of activation for sets like this, think of bash as first and foremost a utility attack after the nerfs. It won't make any difference on this sets performace. Being able to time your monster sets attack is also very useful and once again rewards skillful gameplay decisions.

Selene's is still the best single target damage set for most of the content in the game with 13364 damage to 1 target up to every 4 seconds. The catch is having a rotation that utlizes many ticks of melee damage to proc this as frequently as possible. Aka flurry or jabs spam + weaving.

Velidreth still has the potential to do the most single target boss damage with 10752 damage x3 for a total of 32256 dmg every 8s. The proc is based on damage done and requires very little effort. It also has a strong 1 piece with +129 dmg which trumps +1.1k stamina for dps. The catch is using it against enemies that can take all 3 spores. If the target can not take all of them, Selene's or Maarselok may be your best option instead.

Stormfist still serves it's purpose as a hybrid set between sustain/dps offering more flexibility to builds. It adds a little more sustain for anyone not interested in constantly changing enchants or not positoned in well optimized groups. Most people only need +280-320 stamina regen that can be achieved from food or race (RG/Woodelf). This set also helps close the gap for races like Imperial/Khajiit that don't have enough racial passive sustain to use bi-stat food, but would be oversustaining with the typical tri/quad sustain food. It also does pretty good aoe dmg with 13420 damage every 8s.

Some of the catches were the shock dmg not scaling with cp and physical penetration, but the shock dmg now completely avoids resistance checks making it a pretty interesting option for content where penetration cap isn't reached, possibly performing better than the other options. This goes well with the idea that the set is meant for less optimized groups and newer players that require a little extra sustain as mentioned previously. I see it as a great option for 4 man dungeons where sustain is harder and clearing trash is more important. There is a large delay on the damage where enemies can walk out of the radius easily and the proc chance is half as good as velidreth, but 10% damage done is still fairly easy to proc on CD with 5-10 ticks of damage on a single target multiplied to 20-30 ticks if you're in an aoe scenario where the damage shines.

I am a bit dissapointed that the CD or proc chance was not simplified here. I think it wouldn't hurt to update it especially when they said that was their intentions with many of the sets in the game.

So overall, those 4 sets seem to each have specific niches they fill and allow for good build variety, better build variety imo to magicka. Do I want more? Yes of course. I believe ZOS needs to consider adding better thematic sets to the game because to me, thats half the fun of these sets. I try to choose them based on visuals for each of my classes, but some are big stretches for me.

Selenes: Warden (Green Bear)
Maarselok: Necro (Blue/Black/Purplish fire, diseased damage(debuff element) lines up with the debuff class)
Velidreth: NB/DK/Warden (Poison, high single target damage, flora)
Stormfist: Sorc (Shock + Physical damage, Storm Atronach visuals)
Templar: Nothing?

DK I'd prefer something like a green flame or physical flame.
NB I'd prefer something like the red/purple/black themes of the vampire skill line.
Templar just has nothing to match their holy yellow/white look. A really big shame.
Necro's makes sense, the dlc was released during it's year of release, but I'd still prefer more of a dead summon based monster set similar to Maw of the Infernal. Unfortunately the 1pc has changed to Magicka instead of HP and I'll have to remove it from my bar. It was a nice substitute where I was able to use Orc + Maw + Passives to have good hp, but also solid sustain using the bi-stat recovery parse food.
Sorc and Stormfist is awesome, feels like the set was built for us, but it's a shame it's not exactly end game competitive, was really hoping for more fundamental changes there.

Raudgrani

Thanks all.

Are they nerfing Maarselok itself, or is there any other reason it would be worse? I might just try and get it tonight, I haven't even done it on vet yet. Feels like one of the longer and more repetitive/boring newer dungeons I've ever done on normal, felt like it was never going to end hehe....

Btw. I thought I'd should have Flawless from VMA on my new Stamcro too, what monster set would you run with that? I've only ever done it Flawless on a Stamplar in werewolf form, and on a StamDK - and I used same gear for both (VO/Vengenace Leech/Troll King), i.e. low damage and high survivability. But I'm thinking like VO/TFS or Briarheart for sets, but a bit clueless for monster set. Velidreth always proc as soon as cooldown is met, and it pretty often hits a lot of random targets in trash fights.

John_Falstaff

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Velidreth still has the potential to do the most single target boss damage with 10752 damage x3 for a total of 32256 dmg every 8s. The proc is based on damage done and requires very little effort. It also has a strong 1 piece with +129 dmg which trumps +1.1k stamina for dps. The catch is using it against enemies that can take all 3 spores. If the target can not take all of them, Selene's or Maarselok may be your best option instead.

I vaguely remember from patch notes that they fixed it a while ago, ensuring that three spores can't hit same hitbox anymore, no? So Velidreth went on decline since then (though it still provides a great semi-AoE punch in trash and add-heavy fights).

Nevasca

John_Falstaff wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Velidreth still has the potential to do the most single target boss damage with 10752 damage x3 for a total of 32256 dmg every 8s. The proc is based on damage done and requires very little effort. It also has a strong 1 piece with +129 dmg which trumps +1.1k stamina for dps. The catch is using it against enemies that can take all 3 spores. If the target can not take all of them, Selene's or Maarselok may be your best option instead.

I vaguely remember from patch notes that they fixed it a while ago, ensuring that three spores can't hit same hitbox anymore, no? So Velidreth went on decline since then (though it still provides a great semi-AoE punch in trash and add-heavy fights).

Yeah they fixed that, it's the whole point why no one touches Velidreth anymore.

Haquor

Raudgrani wrote: »

Literally since I started playing, we have had the following viable options for stamina DD's, if you want damage: Velidreth, Selene, Stormfist. I can't really recall anyone using anything else, if you want damage at least. While these might be all good and such, I feel it's about time we had something new and clever. It doesn't need to have any significantly higher damage, but something with a little more flavor to it, some kind of additional utility perhaps? We have Maarselok as a new set, but I've never tried it, and now bash damage is being nerfed too - so it doesn't feel really interesting at all.

We had Zaan kind of "recently", and I don't really play magicka DD, but I've understood it's pretty much "Bis" for mag DD's(?). This discussion perhaps applies to magicka as well, but I feel stamina is really outdated when it comes to monster sets. I always use Velidreth, because it seems to kick in most often, and you have three "balls" dealing damage - instead of one "coward bear" (as I call it, because it seems to always proc the same second your target goes down!). I carry all three sets on my DD's, but tend to never switch.

Used to use valkyn on stamina dk. Back in the day.

Raudgrani

Velidreth used to be able of hitting a few really big targets. Like Chudan, that big winged dude in COA2, in Asylum Sanctorium and such, but it should have been "fixed" now. I had a long break, and it was during that I think.
I use Velidreth of the same reason I use Ruinous Scythe instead of Rapid Strikes much of the time, because it's so much better for all numerous mobs. If I'm in a "real" group (people I know), I can ask them to wait for me to switch skills/set before harder boss encounters. I run Two-Fanged Snake over Relequen too most often, it's so much stronger for trash fights.

Regarding Selenes: Seems to me Whirling Blades is like the single best attack to proc Selene? At the end of "execute phase" I go like: Endless Hail/Soultrap (or Poison Injection) -> LA -> Blastbones -> LA -> Whirling blades - LA -> Whirling - LA - Whirling -> LA - Blastbones -> LA -> Whirling (and so on); and at least it seems Selene procs even more often than cooldown really allows. It's frankly amazing during that last bit of execute.

Raudgrani

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Maarselok is still best in slot in many ways and the bash nerfs have nothing to do with how well this set performs. In a trial scenario, Maarselok can get up to 18000 dmg done every 7s to enemies in an aoe cone. The catch is the set requires a level of skill in that you need to proc it yourself instead of an automatic proc chance present on other sets, as well as requiring a trial to fully boost the damage potential. It's clear this set was made to be an end game set that offers reward with practice.

I finally ran Maarselook twice today on vet, as it's pledge - and had a heavy and medium head (good with heavy when my squishy behind needs a little more mitigation!), and I've only tried it out on some mammoth and giants so far, but it seems pretty excellent on my bow/bow StamDK. I suppose I will have to few negative effects with my Stamcro (even it would have been better looking! LOL) to be worth it. I'll try out some dummy parse this weekend and hope I get up to 50k DPS with it. I'm just about there with Velidreth, but this could be better still.

Ghnami

Balorgh is actually a sleeper God tier mag/stam monster set for pvp and pve.

Swen_von_Walhallion

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Velidreth still has the potential to do the most single target boss damage with 10752 damage x3 for a total of 32256 dmg every 8s. The proc is based on damage done and requires very little effort. It also has a strong 1 piece with +129 dmg which trumps +1.1k stamina for dps. The catch is using it against enemies that can take all 3 spores. If the target can not take all of them, Selene's or Maarselok may be your best option instead.

Veli set was nerfed and now can hit only one target with one spore. I was nerfed due to overperfomed in vSS where all spores alwys hit bos and vlei have insane DPS.