Ilambris Set change- No layering?

Heat4Meat

With Update 26 one of the main changes to the Ilambris set that has been announced is:
"Increased the damage done from each meteor shower to 2015, up from 1170. You can no longer layer each meteor shower."

What do you mean by layer.... exactly?

xaraan

You used to be able to get both the fire and lightning showers to proc at the same time, or one proc while the other was still running.

They are taking that away.

It wasn't the best dps set even with that, but with the other changes they made, not sure if that will make it stronger, worse or the same 'ok' use it has on live now until we can test it out.

Dagoth_Rac

Heat4Meat wrote: »

With Update 26 one of the main changes to the Ilambris set that has been announced is:
"Increased the damage done from each meteor shower to 2015, up from 1170. You can no longer layer each meteor shower."

What do you mean by layer.... exactly?

You used to be able to have the fire and shock effects both active at same time. Now it seems like it is only 1 or the other. It will probably be a slight DPS buff because very few builds were able to get perfect uptime on both effects. Instead of having to split between fire and shock damage to get max out of set, you can pick one damage type or the other and still get roughly equivalent damage.

leepalmer95

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Heat4Meat wrote: »

With Update 26 one of the main changes to the Ilambris set that has been announced is:
"Increased the damage done from each meteor shower to 2015, up from 1170. You can no longer layer each meteor shower."

What do you mean by layer.... exactly?

You used to be able to have the fire and shock effects both active at same time. Now it seems like it is only 1 or the other. It will probably be a slight DPS buff because very few builds were able to get perfect uptime on both effects. Instead of having to split between fire and shock damage to get max out of set, you can pick one damage type or the other and still get roughly equivalent damage.

Pretty sure you can have both but not overlapping.

zvavi

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Heat4Meat wrote: »

With Update 26 one of the main changes to the Ilambris set that has been announced is:
"Increased the damage done from each meteor shower to 2015, up from 1170. You can no longer layer each meteor shower."

What do you mean by layer.... exactly?

You used to be able to have the fire and shock effects both active at same time. Now it seems like it is only 1 or the other. It will probably be a slight DPS buff because very few builds were able to get perfect uptime on both effects. Instead of having to split between fire and shock damage to get max out of set, you can pick one damage type or the other and still get roughly equivalent damage.

Pretty sure you can have both but not overlapping.

We used (still have, on live, for now) to be able to have both lightning and fire procced at the same time.

zvavi

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

leaked part from ZOS' fresh employee manual:

if you are not nerfing something to the ground

at least take away it's unique identity

It's actually not nerfed- the damage is pretty much the same, if not a little higher.

It's completely boring now though.

Pretty much the same, a bit lower you mean. But ye, completely boring it is.

robpr

It does slightly more damage than Grothdarr, but yeah its completely boring. Cant have both effects at the same time.

WrathOfInnos

I don’t really care for this change. Ilambris now works best if only using Fire Damage, and any Shock Damage in your build makes it weaker. The Fire proc deals more damage due to Engulfing Flames and the possibility of Burning procs, and the Shock proc just prevents Fire procs from occurring. It’s old niche is completely lost, and this has just become another pure Fire Damage proc monster helm.

JinMori

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t really care for this change. Ilambris now works best if only using Fire Damage, and any Shock Damage in your build makes it weaker. The Fire proc deals more damage due to Engulfing Flames and the possibility of Burning procs, and the Shock proc just prevents Fire procs from occurring. It’s old niche is completely lost, and this has just become another pure Fire Damage proc monster helm.

Basically yes.

Atherakhia

Has anyone seen if the same proc can overlap?

With this set now working with Elf Bane, the duration of the fire proc is now longer than its cooldown, right?

karekiz

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t really care for this change. Ilambris now works best if only using Fire Damage, and any Shock Damage in your build makes it weaker. The Fire proc deals more damage due to Engulfing Flames and the possibility of Burning procs, and the Shock proc just prevents Fire procs from occurring. It’s old niche is completely lost, and this has just become another pure Fire Damage proc monster helm.

This. Ironically a set that was tailored for classes like Sorc, or necro <Multi elemental damage>, for a unique effect <Dual procs>, is essentially worse for them now as you want fire to proc on each CD and not lightning.

FrancisCrawford

Atherakhia wrote: »

Has anyone seen if the same proc can overlap?

With this set now working with Elf Bane, the duration of the fire proc is now longer than its cooldown, right?

Yes, but in what sort of context is it going to make sense to run Elf Bane?

I guess if you're going to run a lot of fire DoTs in a PvE boss fight Elf Bane frees up some magicka and gcds for more spammable casts. But do the numbers on that ever work out?

I could see single-barring it, but that would keep it from applying to Wall of Elements (assuming a Maelstrom staff on the other bar).

zvavi

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I could see single-barring it, but that would keep it from applying to Wall of Elements (assuming a Maelstrom staff on the other bar).

Pretty sure it doesn't affect the vMA buff over the initial skill time anyway. Might be wrong though.

FrancisCrawford

zvavi wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I could see single-barring it, but that would keep it from applying to Wall of Elements (assuming a Maelstrom staff on the other bar).

Pretty sure it doesn't affect the vMA buff over the initial skill time anyway. Might be wrong though.

zvavi wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I could see single-barring it, but that would keep it from applying to Wall of Elements (assuming a Maelstrom staff on the other bar).

Pretty sure it doesn't affect the vMA buff over the initial skill time anyway. Might be wrong though.

Fair point. But that just highlights the real question -- what is it going to be used to extend?

I guess since it applies to your monster-set procs and ultimates, it may not need to do much for your ordinary skills as well ...

StackonClown

Hi Guys,

is there a link to this proposed change? - Im cancelling ESO plus for now due to this, since I love the layered ilambris effect - does it say why they are doing this change??

Thanks,
Stax

zvavi

@StackonClown https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522289/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-0#latest
A bit long so just search ilambris, no comment for the change.

MashmalloMan

StackonClown wrote: »

Hi Guys,

is there a link to this proposed change? - Im cancelling ESO plus for now due to this, since I love the layered ilambris effect - does it say why they are doing this change??

Thanks,
Stax

They don't say why, but I bet it's 1 of 2 reasons or both.

1. Better performance, less effects.
2. Issues with Elfbane. Having 2 potential procs of different elements that did not share the same cooldown preventing issues with getting the set to increase the Flame aoe dot by the 5 seconds like it's suppose to.
3. This is only a result of the above 2 changes, but it falls in line with their intended goal on rebalancing many of the monster sets by streamlining their proc chances: Potential to make the set more reliable for all classes instead of just Sorc's and maybe Necro's.

ZOS didn't think about fun factor, they thought about balance and performance. Up the damage by 72%, increase the proc chance by 230%, reduce proc's by 50%. Fix for Elfbane.

All in all, it will end up stronger for most classes because you only need to proc 1 shower on CD with tripple the proc chance where as before, you had to double dip your magicka damage types to get effectiveness out of it with only a 10% chance. The only class that could do this well was Sorc. Now that this set only uses 1 proc and works with Elfbane, it's basically become a ranged version of Grothdar for Mag DK's.

Sorc's lost the 1 unique shock based thematic monster set they had, while DK now has over 6 flame damage monster sets, 3 of which are directly affected by a DK specific set: Elfbane which buffs Grothdar, Ilambris, and Domihaus. Then there is Zaan, Valkyn Skoria and Infernal Guardian for flame damage.

Whats funny is even the arguably thematic pet set for Sorc's in Maw of the Infernal does flame famage instead of magic or shock.

I don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as a problem from a game design perspective. They put flame damage in almost everything in the game. Same goes for destruction staff, ultimates, general skills, flame damage dominates shock and frost.

What's left for the other classes? What Frost monster sets are there for Mag Warden, the crappy version we have now of Iceheart?

At least they recently gave Necro a bone with the Kjalnar's Nightmare set, but at the same time, it just made people question why they decided to make a Necro thematic effect of a fist that stuns on a monster set, instead of adding that within their class kit like they desperately need. I'm pretty sure that exact Necro fist has been used by Necro NPC for years which just adds to the growing pains of "why do NPC's have cooler abilities than players?".

zvavi

Knightmare is totally a set for magden change my mind.

MashmalloMan

zvavi wrote: »

Knightmare is totally a set for magden change my mind.

Both Magden and Magcro need a stun, but neither class does "light attacks" any better than the other. The effect of the set looks like it was directly ripped from NPC Necro's or left on the cutting room floor of the Necro class pre Elsweyr to be sold for DLC later.

If it was an ice/animal animation, I'd concede.

zvavi

MashmalloMan wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Knightmare is totally a set for magden change my mind.

Both Magden and Magcro need a stun, but neither class does "light attacks" any better than the other. The effect of the set looks like it was directly ripped from NPC Necro's or left on the cutting room floor of the Necro class pre Elsweyr to be sold for DLC later.

If it was an ice/animal animation, I'd concede.

Wardens have 10% dmg towards mag dmg. I know that it ends up being only 6% or so, but I still love it. If you meant animation wise... You are current, feels more like necro, that gets bonus to zaan cause zaan is a dot...

zvavi

I will be honest with you guys, today I run ilambris for old time's sake, and double proc of lightning and fire just feels so good. Without it, it won't be the same.

MashmalloMan

zvavi wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Knightmare is totally a set for magden change my mind.

Both Magden and Magcro need a stun, but neither class does "light attacks" any better than the other. The effect of the set looks like it was directly ripped from NPC Necro's or left on the cutting room floor of the Necro class pre Elsweyr to be sold for DLC later.

If it was an ice/animal animation, I'd concede.

Wardens have 10% dmg towards mag dmg. I know that it ends up being only 6% or so, but I still love it. If you meant animation wise... You are current, feels more like necro, that gets bonus to zaan cause zaan is a dot...

Fair enough, the damage side leans towards mag warden. Still, Magicka damage isn't very unique and I'd never consider that a defining trait for Mag Warden's, I'd love for ZOS to drop it entirely for +15% frost damage and making over 75% of their damage kit frost, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.

zvavi

MashmalloMan wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Knightmare is totally a set for magden change my mind.

Both Magden and Magcro need a stun, but neither class does "light attacks" any better than the other. The effect of the set looks like it was directly ripped from NPC Necro's or left on the cutting room floor of the Necro class pre Elsweyr to be sold for DLC later.

If it was an ice/animal animation, I'd concede.

Wardens have 10% dmg towards mag dmg. I know that it ends up being only 6% or so, but I still love it. If you meant animation wise... You are current, feels more like necro, that gets bonus to zaan cause zaan is a dot...

Fair enough, the damage side leans towards mag warden. Still, Magicka damage isn't very unique and I'd never consider that a defining trait for Mag Warden's, I'd love for ZOS to drop it entirely for +15% frost damage and making over 75% of their damage kit frost, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.

Amen

DropDeadGorgeous

I'm so sad Ilambris will lose it's layering effect. It's one of the most beautiful visual effects in the game, in my opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-y4-gZ0ZgI

martijnlv40

I'm pretty sad about this change for my magsorc as well. I had a really good uptime, proccing both effects a lot. Now it's just a more boring set.
I'm probably going to run Zaan (which I refused before, but oh well), perhaps Nerien'eth or Valkyn. The thing is, Zaan also has the best 1-piece bonus, then comes Nerien'eth and the only good thing about Valkyn compared to the others is that I can use my 10 or 11 champion points somewhere else.

Eifleber

Has anyone already calculated how Ilambris now compares to the Valkyn Skoria set?

It seems Valkyn Skoria performs a a lot better:
Every 5 sec 9000 dmg on target / 4000 to adjacent (5m) = 1800 dps / 800 dps vs adjacent
versus Ilambris
Every 8 sec 5850 damage (5 x 1170) in a 4m radius = 731 dps
?

zvavi

@Eifleber as the discussion already stated, ilambris as it is now can proc both effects at the same time, so it ain't 1170x5, but 1170x10

Grianasteri

Disappointing for my Elemental Mage, who was reliably able to proc both effects through his rotation.

It will still work for the theme and could actually be a dps increase, but I really enjoyed the visual impact of meteor showers going off, along with my other proc sets and skills, the battlefield was an elemental maelstrom

luen79rwb17_ESO

Sorry folks, our cool looking set is GONE for the sake of "standards"...

Dragonredux

Personally I might not even use Llambris after this change. People already pretty much affirmed that the fire proc is better than the lightning proc so there's no reason to use the lightning proc except for some rp thing your doing with your build. With the abundance of fire monster sets why would I ever use Llambris over Grothdaar, Skoria, or even Zaan.

I would be fine if the proc chance was increased or removed, or slightly increased the damage on it but straight up removing the layering just kills the point and the theme of the set.

Calypso589

I don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as a problem from a game design perspective. They put flame damage in almost everything in the game. Same goes for destruction staff, ultimates, general skills, flame damage dominates shock and frost.

That's been true since day 1.

Fire is pure damage
Frost is more about CC
Shock proccs off-balance and facilitates damage.

From a gimmick standpoint, I can understand why folks are disappointed but these truths about the various damage types have existed since 2014.