Remove classes

KoSeKu

I wonder how the game would be without classes? Like Skyrim game. I think it might be interesting. Zenimax should consider this sometime. To me, classes seems a bit "hand-made" or "bizarre", because at the end half of their skills basicly do the same thing, and other half is just a different animation. So there is not much "mean" in classes. There is plenty of variety and character customization in this game already, classes are not necessary. I know this sounds very radical, but if you think of it?

Elwendryll

They said they couldn't make class change tokens. If they can't do that, I don't think they can remove classes?
Also, I love classless systems, as long as you can still get a strong identity/archetype with the skills available but it's way too far in the life of the game to change that ^^ I don't want the game to change, something like that should be from the start.

daemonios

I would love a game without classes, only skill lines you could choose to develop or not. UO had no classes, for instance. But ESO is far too committed to classes for that to be a realistic option. It would be like saying "what if you took your 6-year-old game back to the drawing board and relaunched it some time in the future?"

Also, classes *can* be a good thing. They can make playing different characters more interesting due to the different "flavour" of each class. But that requires careful balancing and a strong vision of where classes should be. ESO has neither, in my opinion. From the start, certain classes were pigeonholed to certain roles (or rather, certain roles assigned to specific classes), such as DK tanks or Templar healers. Then in an attempt to reverse this, classes have become increasingly flavourless, with essentially the same toolkit but different animations.

Eifleber

With most of your skills being weapon and guild skills anyway I don' t really se the need to remove classes at all.
Yesterday I had a funny dungeon run with a Templar tank and DK healer (me).

That said I would actually like more class identity because what's the use if they are indistinguisable anyway?!
Versatility within a class is one thing, blandness is another.

Luckylancer

"We cant make class change" is big ***. It is their game, such an easy task will be posssible. I want to reming you vampire and ww skill line can come and go depending on your desicion.

Removal of classes is nearly impossible. They wont do such a big rework. Classes are ok too.

Rowjoh

Classes are a staple of most RPG's and RPGMMO's and are usually a good thing as they give an important layer of meaningful choice, customisation and immersion.

Unfortunately they have been chopped and changed around so much that they are now pretty generic and bland.

Due to the long term vision for the game I doubt if we will ever see a reversal of the dilution and loss of identity, but still better to have the small amount of what we have left than not at all.

CyberSkooma

Stop reaching so hard, man.

Deathlord92

I like skyrim but just no way I love my nightblades.

vestahls

I also really liked the class-less approach they took with Skyrim, but in ESO I think they're afraid (probably with good reason) that it could be abused and then they'd have to nerf all skills into the ground. Some class abilities are way too powerful already, imagine using them in combination.
Everyone would pretty much end up running the same skills, so the current classes sort of impose a little build diversity at least.

It's a good idea, but would be very difficult to balance in an MMO.

TradoTheOne

Very radical indeed.

Sarannah

Noooo, I like classes. They should add more.

I wouldn't be against some type of rebirth system though.... where your character re-starts at level one, but you would be able to pick a secondary class to get those class's skilllines added to your existing characters. Maybe even disable CP on the rebirthed character until it becomes level 50 again, making it a bit harder and an actual achievement.

Hapexamendios

How about no.

mikejezz

I always wondered the same. It looks like a skyrim skinned mod, just without the freedom to make your own class.

It would fit the game more if we had complete freedom, but it's probably a balance thing.

brandonv516

I've always loved the idea. Most don't.

People in opposition say players would pick the same skill trees and it would be too hard to balance.

This is already the case in the game though - the same skills always get used and the game is never really balanced.

I'd like to see the ability to choose skills from each of the classes, but you'd only be able to pick one healing tree, one damage tree, and one tanking tree. It's a theory-crafter's wet dream.

Wifeaggro13

Eifleber wrote: »

With most of your skills being weapon and guild skills anyway I don' t really se the need to remove classes at all.
Yesterday I had a funny dungeon run with a Templar tank and DK healer (me).

That said I would actually like more class identity because what's the use if they are indistinguisable anyway?!
Versatility within a class is one thing, blandness is another.

This is the truth. Even more so now that they have homogenized the hell out of all the strengths. Honestly in reality it ruined the game at its core. The group dynamics are already dps metas for each class any how . Removing them would only create one single meta. Unfortunately the casual player only think about the sparkle of the idea. Not the impact on the game in total. I wanna summon that big skeleton thing while using biting jabs and running that spiked armor.

Tandor

The problem with a classless system in MMORPGs is that although in theory they give players a wide choice of skills, in practice many players feel obliged to follow the FOTM template (and are kicked from groups if they don't do so) and so most skills don't get used at all, just the "meta" ones. You don't have that issue in single player RPGs so a classless system works well in Skyrim, for example. ESO is not Skyrim, however, nor should it be.

worrallj

I've always wished the classes and skill lines generally were a little more integrated into the game world. Like Templars would do quests for the temple of the 8 that would teach them about stendarr's spear, etc.

Even the faction specific skill lines don't actually have much of anything to do with the faction besides getting the skill line to unlock, e.g. the fighters guild doesn't have any quest where you learn about their anti-daedric methods and have to learn to use a circle of protection to cleanse a dark anchor or something. There's not even any dialogue options that mention the skills. Might be a lore book or two here or there and that's it.

Many of the skill lines, especially class skills, feel like something extra layered on top of the TES world, rather than integrated into it. I think that would make classes feel a little more natural and less like a stilted attempt to mimic traditional rpg themes.

Stx

I support the removal of classes and adding skill trees that you can combine however you like. The current classes in this game are far too limiting for a franchise like TES.

I mean.. if you want to make just a straight up warrior character in this game. Not only would you most likely be gimping yourself due to all the classes having spells, but the most optimal class to choose.. to make a WARRIOR, would be the SORCERER class. Ridiculous.

It will never happen, so we can only dream. We are too far into the games life for such a large change.

TheShadowScout

KoSeKu wrote: »

I wonder how the game would be without classes?

A different game.

I mean, yeah, the idea is not new, and they -could- have made something along those lines... but they choose otherwise.
Ship. Sailed. Sunk. Long time.

At this point I see no chance they would want to invest all the development resources to rip out the current system and build a completely new one from scratch, then somehow stitch it into the rest of the ESO framework and then fixing all the stuff that broke AND spend a couple years balancing that system to the current state of balancedness (yeah, riiiight) that ESO is right now... for no extra profit??? Anyone who'd suggest that to the suits in charge at ZOS would get kicked out of the boardroom window...

Nah.
Best we can hope is that they might make the next big game like that.

Elwendryll wrote: »

They said they couldn't make class change tokens.

Yeah, but what they really meant with that was that they estimate those to take more effort then they could make a profit from. because they -CAN- make those if they really wanted; its just data, and all data can be changed. Just might take more effort then is profitable, is all... which ends at he same result - us not getting it.

daemonios wrote: »

It would be like saying "what if you took your 6-year-old game back to the drawing board and relaunched it some time in the future?"

Indeed.
The only chance for that might be if a completely new and revolutionary computer system was invented, which required -everything- to be redone for it... then they -might- choose to redo ESO for that, with a load of new ideas added for good measure, and possibly a classless system among them.
I don't see that happening in the next decade or so though, so... we can dream about it (ESO played SAO/Matrix-style? I want that so bad...)

Tandor wrote: »

The problem with a classless system in MMORPGs is that although in theory they give players a wide choice of skills, in practice many players feel obliged to follow the FOTM template (and are kicked from groups if they don't do so) and so...

...everyone starts to feel like a clone of the FotM template. Which is not realyl noticable in a solo game, but awfully boring in a MMO.

I mean, yeah, there are other mechanics they could use instead of classes to prevent this. Either/or choices in the skill selections for example; or a prerequesite tree that prevents people from adding the "most effective" abilities due to having to invest a lot in "less impressive" abilities as prerequesited of taking the good ones... etc. But they choose a different path for ESO, so...

I guess the very best we can hope for at this point is to see an -expansion- of the class system, perhaps even in ways I have been brainstorming about in the past...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492733/class-specialization-idea/p1
...but "true classless" is not viable as a refit for our ESO here.