My proposed Necromancer changes in detail

Noxavian

Hey all. I've been wanting to make a post in detail for a while now talking about some changes that could be made to necromancer to make it fit more in line with what many of us expected from a Necromancer class in ESO.


These suggestions have taken a bit of inspiration from what class rep @CAB_Life said in his video talking about this very same thing. This is the video for those interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S8GqQz6ZB4


The goal of these changes will be to keep the same kinda options necromancers currently have (magicka dps, stam tank, healer, etc), but also provide more of a 'necromancy' feel instead of looking like a cheap knock-off that you'd buy from a Halloween store or a re-skin of the sorcerer. It should add a lot to the fantasy whilst keeping everything people presently like about it intact as well as providing those that think it could fit the fantasy better a solution. It's a win-win and makes the class more unique. Also worth noting in the video mentioned above the class is supposed to be an "AREA DENIAL/CONTROL" class. With these changes, it'd make controlling areas way easier through the use of undead minions and auras!

GraveLord: this skill line is the one that needs the most work, IMO. As the very description of the skill line is 'summoning hordes of undead' meanwhile it only gives you 1 'summon' that doesn't immediately suicide. Doesn't really sound like a horde to me. But thankfully, I've thought of a way to update the skill line whilst keeping the dev's core concept AND providing more corpse interaction.

ULT Frozen Colossus: Keep this ability more or less the same, maybe nerf the damage a tiny bit to compensate for this change, but I think it'd be a nice flavorful thing. In both morphs and the base ability, enemies KILLED by this ultimate should raise as basic zombies for 20 seconds that follow the necromancer and act as normal temporary summons, attacking the closest target. Could summon different types of zombies depending upon ult. The Glacial Morph could summon frozen corpse zombies that slow on hit, thus allowing your minions to swarm easier. Where the Pestilent morph zombies could apply a small poison DoT when they melee attack. Pretty simple change, but adds a lot of flavor. Zombies can be killed and do drop as corpses.

SKILL #1 Flame Skull: This skill is fine and I actually quite like it. Only thing I'd do is maybe up the bounce of the Ricochet Skull up from 2 times to 4 times and make it able to bounce between the two same enemies.

SKILL #2 Blast Bones: Skill is fine, but at the moment the Magicka morph does literally nothing since it no longer runs after the target. My proposed idea is this: Make Stalking Blastbones into 'Swarming Blastbones', instead of summoning 1 blastbones you instead summon 3 in a line beside one another. They'd move slower to compensate for the extra damage and to give more reaction time and outplay potential from the enemy. Creates 3 corpses (great corpse generator). If 3 is too much, could always move down to 2. I think this would be a great fix for this broken morph that again, literally does not work because it's bugged. Stam morph stays same.

SKILL #3 Boneyard: Firstly, completely remove the gravestones from the skill. It looks cheesy and stupid. What am I, a geomancer? Why can I summon tombstones? Literally could just keep the frosted desecrated ground effect plus the swirly mist on the inside and it'd look fine. A new effect for the Base skill would be: empowers undead minions that fight whilst in the zone. Gives them a minor resistance and damage buff. Avid Boneyard would stay the same. Unnerving Boneyard though? Completely remove major breach (or reduce it to minor breach) and add in the option to where it can consume up to two corpses to summon to skeletal warriors (basic skeletons with shortswords and shields). Keep the original effect where if a corpse is consumed in this way then the skill does 50% more damage. Skeletal Warriors can be killed and drop corpses.

Skill #4 Skeletal mage: Stays exactly the same, skill is good. Except add in an option to tap the skill again once summoned to get the archer/mage to focus on the target you're aiming at. Small little QoL change. Cannot be targeted, etc, and still drops corpses.

Skill #5 Shocking Siphon: Base skill stays exactly the same, tethers onto a dead corpse. However with the morph options: Mystical Siphon now raises the corpse as a fast and agile skeleton with no weapons or armor. You slowly siphon away the skeleton's HP as it runs towards the closest enemy (can be re-targeted to who you're looking at by tapping the skill again). It does weak swipe attacks while radiating the shocking Aura of damage, effectively bringing the damage to your enemies and allowing you to re-position with it better. Detonating siphon now raises a slow moving, but way tankier zombie whose sickly disease-based AURA deals more damage (due to it having more hp) and at the end of the duration or when the zombie dies it explodes in a cloud of burst poison/disease damage. The zombie also weakly swipes at the target you command it to go to. Skeleton and zombie can be killed. Does not drop corpses upon death since they were siphoned away.

Gravelord passives: Re-useable parts now works on ALL gravelord abilities except Ultimate and flame skull, since all abilities now use corpses in someway to summon undead. Rapid Rot now increases the damage of your pets by 15% as well.


WEW. Okay that was a lot. I promise Gravelord was the most in-depth one that needed a bit of flavor, the other two skill lines should be easier to explain.


Bone Tyrant

ULT Bone Goliath Transformation: In wake of the Blood Scion ult being super similar to this ultimate, I figured it could use a bit of flavor to make it stand out more as an ultimate. I propose this pretty drastic change: Combine both Pummeling goliath and ravenous goliath into 1 morph. Lessen the effect of both, and make it to where the damage scales off of your highest resource. THE BASE ABILITY stays exactly the same. Now for the new Morph: Summon Bone Colossus. Summon a 30-60k HP (or somewhere in between, don't know what sounds balanced) colossus that works exactly how a bone colossus would you'd come across in a dungeon. It lasts for 30 seconds or until killed, has AoE attacks and can summon 3 skeleton minions of its own upon reaching half HP (only once) that drop corpses upon death. Can be re-directed to different targets with tapping R again. This new morph would raise the ult cost up to 300 from 250 and it would allow you to still gain ultimate while the summon is active. If you somehow get enough ult to summon another one during this time, you can only have a max of 1 colossus active for balance sake.

Skill #1 Death Scythe: Skill is okay, but completely change the animation and visuals. Make it more like how this skill was in the concept-design: A quick life drain/siphon that you didn't need to channel. Re-flavor around the text to where instead of healing for the first enemy hit, make it a direct life-steal ability that heals for the damage it deals. Could also make it an AoE heal that lashes out and attaches to nearby enemies.

Skill #2 Bone Armor: Keep exactly the same, except for an addition to Summoners Armor: This skill now effects ALL summoning skills, including ultimates. Also radiate an empowering aura that makes minions near you tankier and attack quicker. No direct damage buffs.

Skill #3 Bitter Harvest: Exactly the same, quite possibly my favorite skill. QoL change though: Have it work on ALL nearby corpses so you dont have to rapidly re-cast it.

Skill #4 Bone Totem: Works exactly the same, except now it gives your minions minor protection too.

Skill #5 Grave Grasp: Completely rework this skill whilst keeping the thematic. Make it work like how the grave-grasp pit skill in Elden Hallow 1 final boss works. Presently it is one of *THE* most useless skills in the entire game. Have never ever seen it used ever. New base description: Summon one large pit of grasping skeletal claws from the ground for 10 seconds, snaring enemies by 50% for 10 seconds and inflicting minor Maim for 10 seconds. Upon standing in the pit for 3 seconds, get stunned and pulled into the ground that requires it to be broken or you will be there till the spell ends. (targets affected by this stun cant be immediately affected after like most CC in the game). New morph: Eternity's Grasp: Increase the size of the pit by double and now snare enemies by 80% when trying to walk through it and double the duration of the skill up to 20 seconds. New morph: Unwelcomed Grasp: After the duration ends, skeletal minions with no armor or weapons crawl their way out of the ground equal to the amount of enemies that got dragged down by the spell. They attack the nearest enemies and cannot be directed. They last for 18 seconds and can be killed. Does drop corpses.

Bone Tyrant Passives: Last gasp: Now increases health of all summons by 1250. Disdain harm: Now reduces damage your minions take from damage over time abilities AND AoEs by 15% while a bone tyrant ability is active.


ALRIGHTY. If you've made it this far, thank you so much for reading my post, you're amazing. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Now moving onto the skill line that needs the least amount of work:

Living Death

ULT Reanimate: Works exactly the same both as a base ability and in the Renewing Animation morph. However, I would like to completely expand the concept of Animate blastbones. New morph: Animate Undead Legion This ultimate COMPLETELY gets rid of the resurrecting of players. It now costs 450 ultimate to cast, meaning you will never cast two of these at once, but you can try. The new text of the skill reads as follows: Bring corpses back from death in a target location. You consume ALL corpses in a bit bigger than original radius to summon random assortments of undead. This can include a combination of: Skeletal warriors, fast and agile Skeletal runners, durable zombies, Skeletal archers, mages, and lastly the strongest summon: Skeleton Juggernauts. This new type of undead are about the size of a draugar overlord and wear full plate armor and wield greatswords. They come with a devistating AoE cleave attack. The undead summoned this way can last up to 30 seconds or until killed. The undead minions raised up from corpses with this skill DO NOT drop corpses.

All skills are the exact same except for these two:

Skill #4 Spirit mender: Skill stays the same, except Spirit Guardian now heals undead minions that stand near it. It will actively try to be near your minions and still in range to heal your party. The AoE heal does not affect players.

Skill #5 Restoring Tether: This skill will work the same, except now it latches onto an enemy and siphons away their hp. Dealing damage over 12 seconds and healing you and allies near you for damage dealt. Also affects minions. It will now be called: Siphoning Tether. Morphs work the same, except now Mortal Coil restores both magicka & stamina while siphoning the target and drains it from the target you're siphoning if you are targeting a player. Either way, it will be for a flat amount since NPCs aren't coded to have mana/stamina I don't think.


Living Death Passives Corpse Consumption now works on undead you summon. Meaning once you raise an undead, you generate 10 ultimate, it can not occur more than once every 16 seconds.



BOOM. That's it. We're done here. There you have it. The class still is functionally the same, but provides more of that 'necromancy' fantasy whilst still being very different from sorcerer. Also now has way more corpse regen and corpse mechanics, thus making use of this entirely new mechanic that was added in with the class. All parties should be happy with these changes: Those that don't want to play a summoner necro, those that want the option to play a summoner necro, those that want to play a sorta normal magicka/stam dps necro, those that want to be a necro tank, and those that want to be a necro healer.

All these changes would do is give more options. And the summons are ALL TEMPORARY, NO PERMANENT SUMMONS HERE and can be killed. (Aside from mender and mage/archer abilities). And obviously these minions would all COUNT AS CRIMINAL ACTS so they can't clutter up cities.

What are you thoughts? Would you change anything else about the class that I missed? Do you dislike any of these changes? If so, why?

Ratzkifal

Noxavian wrote: »

[...]
Living Death

ULT Reanimate: New morph: Animate Undead Legion This ultimate COMPLETELY gets rid of the resurrecting of players. It now costs 450 ultimate to cast, meaning you will never cast two of these at once, but you can try. The new text of the skill reads as follows: Bring corpses back from death in a target location. You consume ALL corpses in a bit bigger than original radius to summon random assortments of undead. This can include a combination of: Skeletal warriors, fast and agile Skeletal runners, durable zombies, Skeletal archers, mages, and lastly the strongest summon: Skeleton Juggernauts. This new type of undead are about the size of a draugar overlord and wear full plate armor and wield greatswords. They come with a devistating AoE cleave attack. The undead summoned this way can last up to 30 seconds or until killed. The undead minions raised up from corpses with this skill DO NOT drop corpses.
[...]

Balorgh:
1 item: Adds 129 Weapon Damage, Adds 129 Spell Damage
2 items: When you use an Ultimate ability, you gain Weapon Damage and Spell Damage for 10 seconds equal to twice the amount of total Ultimate consumed.

So 900 spell damage for 10 seconds and then another 30 seconds of super annoying pets. And why exactly is this part of the living death tree? Shouldn't this be part of the offense tree to benefit from the passives?

Not a huge fan of your suggestions to be honest. It seems like it was designed without the enemy side in mind. Meatshields are very strong on their own in PvP because of line of sight etc. That's why your blastbones change is also unusable.

I'll keep it short here so potential replies are more focused and don't make walls of texts and follow this up with what I would change about Necromancer in another response.

Ratzkifal

What issues does Necromancer currently have:

• redundant skills, two siphons
• no proper tank summon
• mixing skill lines is discouraged

To address that I would change the crit values of Near-Death Experience and Death-Knell to count all Necromancer abilities slotted but reduce the crit per skill a bit if necessary. Should it prove necessary for balance reasons, these passives can have an uneven balance too with one providing much more crit chance per skill for healing/damage than than the other does.

Then to make Shocking Siphon different from Restoring Tether, I propose that Shocking Siphon uses all nearby corpses at once to make the skill a bit easier to use offensively, as it would create a larger damage area. Multiple beams hitting the same target should not deal multiple instances of damage (on the base skill) but just increase the area. The magicka morph would then add a scaling effect that increases the overall damage of the skill for every corpse being drained and the stamina morph would make corpses explode upon finishing the full duration and making an explosion centered around you when ending the effect early by leaving the range (scaling up with the time spent siphoning).
Restoring Tether already scales with your highest offensive stat, so Mortal Coil could inherrit that and restore magicka or stamina depending on what is higher or both or Braided Tether could could restore both to you and allies (but less) and Mortal Coil only to yourself but more of your highest resource.

For the tank I would suggest that bone totem creates corpses and that the Empowering Grasp morph of Grave Grasp gets changed to summon a skeletal warrior (with sword and shield) that charges forward (the direction you are facing) and knocks down enemies in its path, once it did that it knocks on it's shield with its weapon and let's out a voiceless battlecry that grants your allies empower and increases the effectiveness of the other summons before crumbling and leaving a corpse. The morph loses its minor maim in favor of an additional corpse and a different type of cc. The Ghostly Embrace morph keeps the maim and immobilize.

That's pretty much it. I wouldn't change a whole lot about Necromancer. Blastbones could use a new effect on the magicka morph but I don't think it's making the class lack in fantasy or ease of use. I don't think they are lacking "the army of the dead" because in the elder scrolls that usually would involve a lot of prep time, which the game's villains have in their lairs but not us players.

precambria

A lot of the ideas are for cosmetic changes, personally I think the whole intended playstyle of the class is just too impractical you can tell the idea was to send in a blastbone and than pull your tether when it lands where your target is than throw a skull, that class combo is not viable in PvP, lol the tether gets line of sighted by a tiny rock on the ground the skull is more like a crafted proc set than a real class skill and the general annoyance of trying to use the corpse mechanic is not rewarding at all.

Know which skills people don't like slotting, Greyed out ones, ones they cannot rely on and ones that feel like you are just trying to keep 2-3 more buffs up than is realistic to do in dynamic combat situations.

You can play a necro and be leashed to the ground like a forlorn dog or you can play a sorc and fly like a bird or run like the wind, take your pick.

Good ideas, I think we should share them with zos, cause even if it inspires something to be made better than it is good, think of it as an inception.

Noxavian

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

[...]
Living Death

ULT Reanimate: New morph: Animate Undead Legion This ultimate COMPLETELY gets rid of the resurrecting of players. It now costs 450 ultimate to cast, meaning you will never cast two of these at once, but you can try. The new text of the skill reads as follows: Bring corpses back from death in a target location. You consume ALL corpses in a bit bigger than original radius to summon random assortments of undead. This can include a combination of: Skeletal warriors, fast and agile Skeletal runners, durable zombies, Skeletal archers, mages, and lastly the strongest summon: Skeleton Juggernauts. This new type of undead are about the size of a draugar overlord and wear full plate armor and wield greatswords. They come with a devistating AoE cleave attack. The undead summoned this way can last up to 30 seconds or until killed. The undead minions raised up from corpses with this skill DO NOT drop corpses.
[...]

Balorgh:
1 item: Adds 129 Weapon Damage, Adds 129 Spell Damage
2 items: When you use an Ultimate ability, you gain Weapon Damage and Spell Damage for 10 seconds equal to twice the amount of total Ultimate consumed.

So 900 spell damage for 10 seconds and then another 30 seconds of super annoying pets. And why exactly is this part of the living death tree? Shouldn't this be part of the offense tree to benefit from the passives?

Not a huge fan of your suggestions to be honest. It seems like it was designed without the enemy side in mind. Meatshields are very strong on their own in PvP because of line of sight etc. That's why your blastbones change is also unusable.

I'll keep it short here so potential replies are more focused and don't make walls of texts and follow this up with what I would change about Necromancer in another response.

Why exactly is the summoning blastbones morph part of the support tree? Which by your logic it shouldn't be there, which I agree with, but I decided to take it at face value in order to keep it in the same place. Also it can still very much benefit from the passives of the other trees, as I mentioned said passives affect all summons.

And the meatshields aren't too big of meatshields. I think it is fair obvious that the majority of the minions summoned by the Animate Legion morph would have less than 20k HP, which would mean clearing them out would be pretty simply. Not like they'd be in your face for long. They're meant to be distractions, if anything.

EDIT: Also I think you're heavily overestimating how much an added 900 spell damage for 10 seconds would be, TBH. Especially with this pretty situational ultimate that requires set up. It isn't as if you could just use it willy nilly for the 900 spell damage.

Not to mention that they'd be locked out of using potentially other beneficial sets for 10 seconds of 900 spell dmg once every x amount of time it takes to get 450 ult. Not to mention x2 that while they're building up for said ultimate/waiting to use it, they're missing out on using their other ultimate.

An added 900 spell damage wouldn't matter too much at all in the grand scheme of things given the limited use of the ultimate. If that set isn't used too much on the already high costing ultimates of necro already (average being of around 500-600 dmg), I don't think an added 300-400 spell damage would make it broken.

If you could just use the ult for max efficiency whenever you want then yeah, I'd say it would probably just be 'good' at that point. I think that helmet set would actually be pretty trash @Ratzkifal.

Noxavian

precambria wrote: »

A lot of the ideas are for cosmetic changes, personally I think the whole intended playstyle of the class is just too impractical you can tell the idea was to send in a blastbone and than pull your tether when it lands where your target is than throw a skull, that class combo is not viable in PvP, lol the tether gets line of sighted by a tiny rock on the ground the skull is more like a crafted proc set than a real class skill and the general annoyance of trying to use the corpse mechanic is not rewarding at all.

Know which skills people don't like slotting, Greyed out ones, ones they cannot rely on and ones that feel like you are just trying to keep 2-3 more buffs up than is realistic to do in dynamic combat situations.

You can play a necro and be leashed to the ground like a forlorn dog or you can play a sorc and fly like a bird or run like the wind, take your pick.

Good ideas, I think we should share them with zos, cause even if it inspires something to be made better than it is good, think of it as an inception.

Yes! This is particularly why I like the changes to Mystical Siphon I suggested. It would make it to where you're less stationary and more of a real "area denier" as you'd be able to control and direct where the AoE splash source goes.

Noxavian

Ratzkifal wrote: »

What issues does Necromancer currently have:

• redundant skills, two siphons
• no proper tank summon
• mixing skill lines is discouraged

To address that I would change the crit values of Near-Death Experience and Death-Knell to count all Necromancer abilities slotted but reduce the crit per skill a bit if necessary. Should it prove necessary for balance reasons, these passives can have an uneven balance too with one providing much more crit chance per skill for healing/damage than than the other does.

Then to make Shocking Siphon different from Restoring Tether, I propose that Shocking Siphon uses all nearby corpses at once to make the skill a bit easier to use offensively, as it would create a larger damage area. Multiple beams hitting the same target should not deal multiple instances of damage (on the base skill) but just increase the area. The magicka morph would then add a scaling effect that increases the overall damage of the skill for every corpse being drained and the stamina morph would make corpses explode upon finishing the full duration and making an explosion centered around you when ending the effect early by leaving the range (scaling up with the time spent siphoning).
Restoring Tether already scales with your highest offensive stat, so Mortal Coil could inherrit that and restore magicka or stamina depending on what is higher or both or Braided Tether could could restore both to you and allies (but less) and Mortal Coil only to yourself but more of your highest resource.

For the tank I would suggest that bone totem creates corpses and that the Empowering Grasp morph of Grave Grasp gets changed to summon a skeletal warrior (with sword and shield) that charges forward (the direction you are facing) and knocks down enemies in its path, once it did that it knocks on it's shield with its weapon and let's out a voiceless battlecry that grants your allies empower and increases the effectiveness of the other summons before crumbling and leaving a corpse. The morph loses its minor maim in favor of an additional corpse and a different type of cc. The Ghostly Embrace morph keeps the maim and immobilize.

That's pretty much it. I wouldn't change a whole lot about Necromancer. Blastbones could use a new effect on the magicka morph but I don't think it's making the class lack in fantasy or ease of use. I don't think they are lacking "the army of the dead" because in the elder scrolls that usually would involve a lot of prep time, which the game's villains have in their lairs but not us players.

I like your passive ideas, I think that is neat. I don't really like your shocking siphon change though, instead of having a bunch of beams shoot out of your body randomly why not just take my suggestion of having it animate the corpse it is targeting into either a speedy agile skeleton or a slow moving, but tankier zombie? That way you can not only direct where the damage goes, but you get another pretty simple added on summoning aspect. Having a bunch of beams connected to your body would look kinda silly.

Can agree with bone totem creating corpses though. I also would be perfectly fine with the summon skeletal warrior morph you suggested if it stayed around after the initial cast as an actual tanking minion for 18 seconds. Seems kinda silly to summon a skeletal warrior, have it charge forward, scream, then die.

Blastbones most certainly needs a new magicka morph, which I'd be fine with it summoning 2 blastbones as mentioned (which shouldnt affect line of sight anymore than 1 blastbones would in reality.)

And I gotta disagree on the army of the dead aspect. The only real aspect of an 'army of the dead' here is the Animate Undead Legion proposed morph. And it reflects the idea of needing proper planning very well, imo, with it being a 450 costing ult (takes time to build up to it) and it actually requiring the bodies in the area to begin with. Also not to mention the summons only last for 30 seconds and can die pretty easily, so it isn't really even a proper undead army.

It is an ult you'd have to use well and plan around to get any use out of it, which I think is neat.

Mr_Walker

Please no more stuns.

Noxavian

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Please no more stuns.

There is 1 stun on this entire list of changes and it requires you to stand still in a danger circle for 3 seconds. Explain how this is bad?

WhyMustItBe

The cosmetics of Necromancer leave a LOT to be desired.

Firstly, magicka necro has these cool, ghostly blue-green spell effects, but then adds this ridiculous, jarring, totally out of place green and black effect that looks like a damn geyser erupting from your face when you gain the buff from the heal ability. This sort of total contrast is just a poorly planned out immersion breaking mess that would have looked better on a stamina spec, so they should definitely make a consistency pass on spell effects.

But the main thing I simply cannot STAND about either necro is the stupid, unrealistic tether beam that gets attached to your pile of dead bodies. I hated the goofy beam they added to warden betties but this is even worse. Honestly if they couldn't come up with a spell effect that telegraphed the ability behaviors any better than that they should have just made the ability do something else.

The beam effects attached to abilities in ESO is some of the most jarring and immersion breaking cringe I have seen in a video game. Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to do better?

EDIT: Is it true the magicka morph of Blast Bones doesn't even work? I haven't played for over 3 months and one of the things I was going to do is play my low level magicka necro, since I assumed that should be enough time for them to work the kinks out (it was totally broken when I left). If it is truly STILL not working how is that OK for a core class ability to remain unusable for over a quarter of a year?!?

Noxavian

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

The cosmetics of Necromancer leave a LOT to be desired.

Firstly, magicka necro has these cool, ghostly blue-green spell effects, but then adds this ridiculous, jarring, totally out of place green and black effect that looks like a damn geyser erupting from your face when you gain the buff from the heal ability. This sort of total contrast is just a poorly planned out immersion breaking mess that would have looked better on a stamina spec, so they should definitely make a consistency pass on spell effects.

But the main thing I simply cannot STAND about either necro is the stupid, unrealistic tether beam that gets attached to your pile of dead bodies. I hated the goofy beam they added to warden betties but this is even worse. Honestly if they couldn't come up with a spell effect that telegraphed the ability behaviors any better than that they should have just made the ability do something else.

The beam effects attached to abilities in ESO is some of the most jarring and immersion breaking cringe I have seen in a video game. Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to do better?

EDIT: Is it true the magicka morph of Blast Bones doesn't even work? I haven't played for over 3 months and one of the things I was going to do is play my low level magicka necro, since I assumed that should be enough time for them to work the kinks out (it was totally broken when I left). If it is truly STILL not working how is that OK for a core class ability to remain unusable for over a quarter of a year?!?

I can agree I hate the beams too, but at least with my suggestion it'd be as if the beam is animating a corpse, which I can kinda get behind the idea of instead of it just creating a danger puddle and flowing into your body stupidly.

And oh yeah, for Blastbones they couldn't fix the bug so they made it to where it runs for like 2 seconds and then just YEETS itself at the target in a huge leap. Thus making it to where the morph actually does nothing since the skill no longer chases people. This was on PTS for weeks btw (:

And despite multiple threads about people saying that the morph quite literally no longer functions because they removed that part of the skill, it still went to live. It must be coded to distance literally *ran* not jumped.

WhyMustItBe

Noxavian wrote: »

I can agree I hate the beams too, but at least with my suggestion it'd be as if the beam is animating a corpse, which I can kinda get behind the idea of instead of it just creating a danger puddle and flowing into your body stupidly.

And oh yeah, for Blastbones they couldn't fix the bug so they made it to where it runs for like 2 seconds and then just YEETS itself at the target in a huge leap. Thus making it to where the morph actually does nothing since the skill no longer chases people. This was on PTS for weeks btw (:

And despite multiple threads about people saying that the morph quite literally no longer functions because they removed that part of the skill, it still went to live. It must be coded to distance literally *ran* not jumped.

Well, that is really disappointing.

I really like most of your suggestions and enjoyed reading your post.

mb10

Boneyard should have 3 reanimated mages casting to create the ground spell instead of tombstones

LukosCreyden

I feel like I am one of the few people who actually LIKE how (most) of the skills look.

I'm all for spooky-scary graveyard change, but I like my scythe.

As for tethers, they are fiddly, but they are a unique mechanic that I feel should be expanded on in Necro.

As for the lack of summons; having a Necromancer that goes beyond just "then I summoned a skeleton" is actually quite nice. We have a class that feels a bit more rounded out, rather than a two-dimensional summoner. Besides, a good Necromancer should have two or three summons up at all times, anyway. Any more than that and the game would probably melt, anyway.

The class has room for improvement - mainly balancing - but it is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

Noxavian

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

I can agree I hate the beams too, but at least with my suggestion it'd be as if the beam is animating a corpse, which I can kinda get behind the idea of instead of it just creating a danger puddle and flowing into your body stupidly.

And oh yeah, for Blastbones they couldn't fix the bug so they made it to where it runs for like 2 seconds and then just YEETS itself at the target in a huge leap. Thus making it to where the morph actually does nothing since the skill no longer chases people. This was on PTS for weeks btw (:

And despite multiple threads about people saying that the morph quite literally no longer functions because they removed that part of the skill, it still went to live. It must be coded to distance literally *ran* not jumped.

Well, that is really disappointing.

I really like most of your suggestions and enjoyed reading your post.

Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed the read. (:

And yes, it is mega disappointing tbh.

Noxavian

LukosCreyden wrote: »

I feel like I am one of the few people who actually LIKE how (most) of the skills look.

I'm all for spooky-scary graveyard change, but I like my scythe.

As for tethers, they are fiddly, but they are a unique mechanic that I feel should be expanded on in Necro.

As for the lack of summons; having a Necromancer that goes beyond just "then I summoned a skeleton" is actually quite nice. We have a class that feels a bit more rounded out, rather than a two-dimensional summoner. Besides, a good Necromancer should have two or three summons up at all times, anyway. Any more than that and the game would probably melt, anyway.

The class has room for improvement - mainly balancing - but it is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

Scythes have never been used for combat in Elder Scrolls and are not a weapon in the universe. It looks very silly.

And as for the tethers, I can agree they are unique, thus why my suggestion was to expand them, not get rid of it completely. It raising the corpse it is tethering to and still doing the same effect, except now you can move it around via command is very interesting and unique and less bland.

And see, that's the thing, with the necromancer's lack of summons or at least the OPTION for summons it paints itself as just a sorc with death magic. That's it. IMO it feels rather two dimensional right now than if it had summoning options. All of the summoning options I suggested are added onto what you already like about necromancer, why not let those that want a summoner based necromancer have a win too? In these suggestions literally nothing you like (except the scythe) would be completely removed. Also with all the corpse mechanics, the class doesn't raise dead from corpses? You know, that one thing necromancers are known for.

And it is pretty bad, it is pretty well known as being one of the worst iterations of necromancer in any game ever. If you literally have to say "my appeal for a necromancer is to not be summoning undead" then you don't really want to play a necromancer now do you? With that aside, once again, I see no issue with leaving things the way they are so that people that don't want to play a necromancer for the undead aspect (which is extremely dumb to me personally, but Im willing to compromise) and letting those that want to play a more traditional necromancer have that OPTION.

You have to admit, for people wanting a pet-based necromancer the current set up doesn't fulfill that at all. You have 2 actual summons. Neither of which are melee and 13 other skills, including 3 ultimates, none of which summon anything. Don't count blastbones because it is more or less a delayed fireball. Not an actual summon.


There is quite literally 0 downside for letting people have it both ways. I'm willing to let those that want to play necro without feeling like they're forced to take summons have their cake if the same people that are fine with such let those that want a more pet-based necro have theirs too. It is a win-win.

XomRhoK

I have little expirience playing Necromancer character, but have some thoughts.
- Don't like visuals of Death Scythe. Model to simple. almost like kid made his first 3D model and forgot to apply texture to it. In my opinion, Scythe must be or fully spectral, without skythe model as such, or 3D model must be bigger, more detailed, not so simple in design.
- If place all summoning skills on the bar(including Animate Blastbones ult), i like the gameplay and feel that you constantly summon army of undead. But if you use only one or two summoning skills, there is absolutly no connection to summons, i always forgot that they here at all, need some interaction with them or more impactful mechanics or visuals.
- I like that Blastbones create feel that you constantly summon minions and generate corpses, but this skill lacks the feel of presence on the battlefield. Blastbones appear too long and disappear too quickly, i'd prefer they appear fast, like other summons, but disappear more slowly, maybe some animation before explosion. Now in close range and in long range with that instant long jump they just don't feel right, more like projectile, not summon.
- In my opinion Boneyard must create corpses, not consume them. I'd replace synergy with Summon Melee Skeleton, so with Avid Boneyard player could use it by himself and increased amount of summons. AoE damage part can stay or go to Grave Grasp or Shoking Siphon.
- Don't really like tethers, they so thin that it is hard to use. Better just create AoE damage or heal near corpse without tethers. Or apply tethers to enemies or summons and make them wider.
- Don't like three circle animation of Grave Grasp, better just straight moving line of hands or stationary circle.
- And regarding @Noxavian proposals, for my taste, i don't like too much summons and summons types. If you, already, place all summoning skills on the bar you will get feel of undead army, maybe one more melee skeleton, too feel close range gap.

Noxavian

XomRhoK wrote: »

I have little expirience playing Necromancer character, but have some thoughts.
- Don't like visuals of Death Scythe. Model to simple. almost like kid made his first 3D model and forgot to apply texture to it. In my opinion, Scythe must be or fully spectral, without skythe model as such, or 3D model must be bigger, more detailed, not so simple in design.
- If place all summoning skills on the bar(including Animate Blastbones ult), i like the gameplay and feel that you constantly summon army of undead. But if you use only one or two summoning skills, there is absolutly no connection to summons, i always forgot that they here at all, need some interaction with them or more impactful mechanics or visuals.
- I like that Blastbones create feel that you constantly summon minions and generate corpses, but this skill lacks the feel of presence on the battlefield. Blastbones appear too long and disappear too quick, i'd prefer they appear fast, like other summons, but disappear more slowly, maybe some animation before explosion. Now in close range and in long range with that instant long jump they just don't feel right, more like projectile, not summon.
- In my opinion Boneyard must create corpses, not consume them. I'd replace synergy with Summon Melee Skeleton, so with Avid Boneyard player could use it by himself and increased amount of summons. AoE damage part can stay or go to Grave Grasp or Shoking Siphon.
- Don't really like tethers, they so thin that it is hard to use. Better just create AoE damage or heal near corpse without tethers.
- Don't like three circle animation of Grave Grasp, better just straight moving line of hands or stationary circle.

Can agree with all of these completely! Also Boneyard summoning something, specifically skeletal warriors, would be so sick.

As for the scythe, I don't like the visuals either. It literally looks like a 3D printed scythe

CAB_Life

Changes to tethers (actually siphoning from enemies) are really neat.

Sanguinor2

These changes look incredibly op.

Taking one of the hardest hitting skills in the game and trippling (or doubling) its Damage sounds like a veeeeeery bad idea. Have you ever been crit for 9k by blastbones? Doubling that doesnt Sound healthy.

If nearly all abilities turn into a summoning ability then summoners armor Needs to be adjusted. A 15% cost reduction to a majority of class skills is too high imo.

The healing from death scythe Needs to be some % of its Damage dealt and not the full Damage, otherwise it invalidates sweeps and swallow Soul. (not to Mention that it would be op af)

Adding so many targetable pets is asking for disaster. A sorc matriarch doesnt have very high Health either. They can still intercept ults tho and all pets take next to no AoE Damage so AoEing them down takes ages.

Boneyard and summoners armor buffing blastbones even further has potential to be very devastating.

A 0 cost skill that drains Health Stamina and magicka of a Player might honestly be the most broken ability in the game.

AinSoph

Ngl, Necro as is feels very boring and there really isnt that feel of commanding a horde of undead. Ironically, the only "real feel" of Necro right now is the reanimating undead morph that summons 3 blastbones max but needs corpses on the ground.

StormeReigns

Add to Rapid Rot passive...
While in combat every 2.5 seconds while in combat - spawn a shambling zombie that lurches towards your target. The zombies rapidly decayed leaving behind a foul desecrated trail in a 8x6 area dealing X% damage for 3seconds to all in the area of decay.

Replace Grasping Claws with
Skeleton soldier: Mediocre Melee dps (1H only)
Preforms basic melee attacks every 2.5 seconds

Morph 1: Skeleton Knight (Tank support + SnB)
Takes 10% of the damage directed at you and is transferred to the SK.
Will occasionally provide its master with minor protection for 12 seconds
(Can only happen once every 14.5 seconds)
Preforms both Heavy and Light melee attacks every 2 seconds

Morph 2: Skeleton Warrior (2H Dps)
Instead of transferring damage that you take to the Warrior, it will now retaliate striking with cleave hitting all nearby enemies with in 7 meters when ever you take damage. (can only happen once every 5.5 seconds)
Preforms both Heavy and Light melee attacks every 2 seconds

Also, if Mender/Mage(Archer) as well Soldier (if it ever did happen) should be, permanent, only through passives upgrades should make it "Pseudo Permanent" (i.e: longer duration, but not following everywhere all the time)
No ranks = 16 seconds
1st rank = 90 seconds
2nd rank = 180 seconds
Allow this to happen through Undead Confederate passive.

Mender would now instead of taking the 10% damage redirection, should have an increased 15% chance to preform an AoE healing spell, placed on the Intensive morph, and increase duration to 16 seconds. While Guardian morph should have a 15% chance to provide HoT along with it's ST healing that focuses on master, while intensive morph will focus on lowest HP.

Pestilence / Frost Colossus when activated, should explode all unused corpses with in 5 meters of the colossus; dealing 3% extra damage per corpse (unused) based on the morph.

And lastly, Grasp (both morphs, Ghostly and Empowering) should be baked into Last Grasp passive. Reduce the immobilize to 2 seconds, and the empowerment to 10% for 2.5 seconds. including, it trigger when ever you land a critical hit, with weapon or class ability, allowing it to trigger once every 3 seconds.

Just my opinion on it though.

Michaelkeir

I agree with most of your suggestions OP. Big fan of necromancers myself. But they way they are implemented in this game does indeed leave much to be desired.

My main grip with the class are as follows..
-No true melee pet. Necromancers are mostly ranged in ES lore, so having a melee wielding skeleton warrior just makes. I mean it's like Basic necromancy 101. Doesn't have to be a perma pet, but at least 1 melee pet is needed.

-I dislike the way tethers are set up. As you suggested I think the healing tether should attach to a living target and drain the heal from it and give it to you. A fitting theme if you ask me. The damage tether should attach to the melee pet and cause a small damage aura around the melee pet and maybe even boost its health and damage. As it is now npc necromancers in game have this skill already so the assets are already in place.

-As far as the ultimate is concerned. The flesh atronach is indeed powerful. But I'd sacrifice some of that power for a smaller less powerful but more mobile version. Shrink it down in size and have it follow you for (×)secs and attack your target. Similar to how the Nov in game currently have and do. Assets are already in game for this as well.

-The scythe seems to be taken straight out of Diablo. Ditch it in favor for a different animation. Keep the function but change it to look like you are draining them of life using a spell being cast from your hands instead of a scythe. Nightblades currently have a drain heal spell animation. Just copy that motion but add a blue spell effect and you are done.

-Bone yard. Get rid of the tombstones. Add small skeletal hands reaching up out of the patch. Done.

-Grave Grasp. Turn this into our class stun. Change the animation into that giant blue skeletal hand that comes up and grabs the enemy.

As it stands I like the class, but I feel it could be so much more. I feel the devs tried to be different but ended up changing what makes a necromancer a necromancer.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Here is the biggest mistake

Necromancers raise the dead, they do not summon them, what they are doing ingame is merely conjuration like how you can summon Soul Cairn Creatures in Skyrim.