It`s time we Talk Battlegrounds ZOS!

OlumoGarbag

In the official Feedback thread almost anyone agrees, that a full premade is not a healthy way to fight against solo players. There is also a majority of players, that want to play with a friend again. I do both solo que and qued with friends for Battlegrounds equally so i get both concerns. The matchups we get at the moment are pretty terrible. Everyone gets almost instantly into battlegrounds, which results in extremly mixed teams. A completly new player has to fight with and against fully expirienced players. There is alot of frustration from expirienced players for not getting "good" teammates, as well there are alot of concerns for newer players that feel like they are getting stomped upon.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/p1

@ZOS_GinaBruno It is already 2 months since solo Battlegrounds were introduced
"This is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment.This is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment."

Isnt it time to check the results and see what the players wanted?

Is it time to let people play together again BUT also stop people from running full premades and stomp everything?

I think its time to test out duo Bgs mixed with solo que. With a maximum of one Duo per Group.

Here is a personal suggestion how the system could be applied and possible examples for team mixups.

1. MMR should be based on 3 factors: Number of Battlegrounds played per type, Average Points archieved and Winrate (because the points you archieve dont always reflect how well you did contribute to your teams success)
2. MMR should never infinitly increase just by playing Battlegrounds, people should be rated in a 1 to 4 system for example
3. A MMR 1 player would be a new and unexpirienced player, a MMR 4 Player would be max expirienced player with alot of games played + a good winrate+ good archievement points

The calculation for Groups could look something like this:

Duoplayers Soloplayers

(4+2)*1,5+2+2= 13 your Teams added up MMR

With a MMR4 and a MMR2 player in a DUO that get matched up with two MMR2 solo players. Duos should always be weighted heavyer bc. two expirienced players could most likely win again 4 non expirienced players, which would give them the feel of getting stomped by a full premade. I think the multiplier should be between 1,5 and 1,8 to assure balanced matches and a fun expirience for all types of players.

an example for a Deathmatch composition could looks something like this:
Team 1
(2+3)*1,5+3+2= 12,5
Team 2
(3+4)*1,5+2+1= 13,5
Team 3
4+3+3+3= 13

The team without a duo group would have the highest amount of expirienced players, but would not have any coordinated duo. This would be an example for medium MMR battlegrounds. I think it would be fair if duo ques have to wait some minutes longer until they find a fitting match but that also depends on the playerpool.

A low mmr groupup could look like this:

(2+1)*1,5+1+2= 7,5

and a max mmr groupup would look something like this:

(3+4)*1,5+4+4= 18,5

the difference between those 2 is so big that a matchup between those 2 groups would never happen.

The biggest flaws of this system is, when more people duo Que then there are solo Queres, that means the duo ques will take longer then the solo que. But that would also show Zenimax that people really want to play with their friends again and they want more group Battleground options. Another factor is the Duo multiplier, If it is set too low the Duos will become to potent, if it is set to high people will get punished to hard for playing with their friends. Let me know what you think or how a possible multiplier should be set!

TLDR:
- Battlegrounds will become a mix of duo and solo players with a maximum of one duo per group
- the MMR will be rated by Winrate/Games played/Points archieved by the individuum
- The duo mmr will be multiplied by 1,5 to assure a balanced matchmaking (examples above)

Deathlord92

No one going to miss pre mades except pre made play in cyrodiil

Qbiken

Agree, something really needs to happen with the MMR system. The current design is by far the biggest contributor to why BG's are, and always has been such a mess.

OlumoGarbag

Deathlord92 wrote: »

No one going to miss pre mades except pre made play in cyrodiil

nothing about this post says that anyone misses premades. I wouldnt call a duo que premade, since 50% of the team is still random.

Koensol

Battlegrounds are an absolute frustration right now. Either add duo queues to the game, or fix matchmaking/mmr. Right now it is either a pugstomp or some completely random crap. For example you are up against 1 team stacked with decent players, 1 team full of bads and your own team which consists mostly of bads with maybe one decent player, and you try your best to score as many kills but you will end up with you scoring 20 kills while your teammates feed their asses off and get a minimum of 10 deaths each. Nothing is more frustrating than that.

Edit: Not to mention the plethora of games where you don't even get a 4 man team EKSDEE

Irfind

Uhhm i would be happy if at least my group is full at the start from a match.

Not 2-4-3 or 2-2-4 usw.

Major_Lag

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

MMR should never infinitly increase just by playing Battlegrounds, people should be rated in a 1 to 4 system for example

Very much this.
The current MMR system is utter garbage - effectively punishing long-term players with extreme queue times, while only allowing a weak semblance of "balance" to exist due to its crude and very limited nature.

Resetting the MMR periodically does "hide" the problem of long queue times, but does not fix any of the underlying issues and in fact only makes them worse.

Total time played is not directly related to (and should never be equated with) player skill.
Is there a statistical correlation between the two? Most certainly, if you average over the whole playerbase.
But the variation between individual players - even with a similar total time played - can be quite huge; also this does not account for cases such as "console converts" and the like ("fresh" players with a lot of ESO experience on a different platform).

BGs are in dire need of a real MMR - which can go both up and down, depending on actual player performance.

TequilaFire

So the guys that don't want group play now complain about other single players that are more experienced than them.

drakthir

Improve MMR, make a new queue for premades, sorted

OlumoGarbag

drakthir wrote: »

Improve MMR, make a new queue for premades, sorted

I agree on the mmr reengineering. But we both know that Zenimax will never be able to implement a pure premade que.
Also think about it:

• you would always need full team
• those teams need to similar mmr
• there is no option for duo or trio groups, which means you would have to add randoms to your groups

I think on PC EU and PC NA primetime it would be possible to match up 3 4-man premades but outside of that the waiting times would be endless.

Reverb

This is a company that can’t reliably match 2 dps+tank+healer for dungeons. With absolutely no criteria other than being solo, it can’t reliably match 4+4+4 in BG, leading to frequent lopsided matches.

Every suggestion for complex criteria or formulae, like OP defined, is frankly ridiculous for this game.

Major_Lag

TequilaFire wrote: »

So the guys that don't want group play now complain about other single players that are more experienced than them.

If we had a working MMR system, then we would not have players of widely differing skill being matched against each other on a regular basis: everyone would eventually end up in a "skill bracket" appropriate to their ability level.

Of course then there is still the issue of a too-small BG player base resulting in excessive MMR bracket widening (to allow matches to even begin in the first place), but that's mostly indicative of an overall poor health of the game mode as a whole.

Mancombe_Nosehair

Reverb wrote: »

This is a company that can’t reliably match 2 dps+tank+healer for dungeons. With absolutely no criteria other than being solo, it can’t reliably match 4+4+4 in BG, leading to frequent lopsided matches.

Every suggestion for complex criteria or formulae, like OP defined, is frankly ridiculous for this game.

This. It is what it is, I am afraid. The uber groups are the ones to blame here, not Zos. They have Just carried out what a lot of people have requested.

Humancentipede2

If you want to talk about BGs, there is more than just the MMR System. The Reward System, the BG design itself, the game modes etc. Doing PvP in this game doesnt reward you at all with something worthy. You always get the same boxes with the same useless stuff in it. Gambling with AP or buying golden gear for AP every couple months to sell them months after, is not what i call rewards. Transmutations shards you can get on many different ways, and if you dont need them anymore and your inventory is full of them , then they dont rly count as reward. What we need is Points that can be earned only in BGs for special Gear/Costumes/housing/colors/etc. Something to play for, motivation etc.

We also need other game modes. The current 4v4v4 is so boring and dumb, on most maps you run in a circle for relics or you stand in front of your base with the chaosball. Woohoo super not interesting und not funny at all. Why is there no 10v10, 20v20, 1v1, 3v3, 6v6, a weekly/monthly leader with meaningfull prices, maps with gamechanging mechanics, real funny and entertaining gamemodes? There is no reason to stick with the allianz war system in BGs. The allianzsystem is meaningless, so why stick with it in BGs? Every map plays the same, the BG experience is just boring and something needs to change.

BNOC

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

I think its time to test out duo Bgs mixed with solo que. With a maximum of one Duo per Group.

That's not a good idea - That creates advantages, even in perfect MMR conditions. Any group should be subjected to all groups and solo should remain solo.

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

1. MMR should be based on 3 factors: Number of Battlegrounds played per type, Average Points archieved and Winrate (because the points you archieve dont always reflect how well you did contribute to your teams success)
2. A MMR 1 player would be a new and unexpirienced player, a MMR 4 Player would be max expirienced player with alot of games played + a good winrate+ good archievement points

This is also a bad way to calculate MMR and here's why I think that:

As a noob without a job, I could

1. Play 1000 games
2. Push score (Ignore all PvP and play obj whilst pressing 3 buttons only, sprint, pickup and stealth)
3. Win a high % of those games on my own
4. Be top of timeplayedboards and have technically the highest MMR.
5. Play all my games against guys that out skill me in every sense

Going 0-20 but finishing top on score and with a win shouldn't be rewarded imo - It's nothing more than taking your character from point a-b and waiting 15s or running forward for 15s, grabbing a relic and running back and if a literal day 1 player can do it, it's probably a bad idea.

My opinion is and has been that damage and or healing should be tied in to MMR, regardless of game type and you need to hit a minimum combined target in order to gain anything at all.

Deathlord92

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

No one going to miss pre mades except pre made play in cyrodiil

nothing about this post says that anyone misses premades. I wouldnt call a duo que premade, since 50% of the team is still random.

My apologies I just assume I seen lot players since bgs got changed crying about no group play i like to play solo and also enjoy bgs all I can remember is me out there by myself because the rest of my team was either to scared to leave base or just left the bgs game it was really unbalanced before and not fun i also stopped playing myself.

ZOS_Volpe

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