Should tanking damage be rewarded as a dps. THE BIGGEST ISSUE IN PVP.

phoenixkungfu

The biggest issue in pvp, is simple and super eazy to fix. The issue is damage and how it scales. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY. A recovery build is more dps than a damage build? It's also more Survivability and can tank the damage of a PURE DPS BUILD? Dps are lowering dps by way of removing jewelry for recovery or recovery food for more Survivability. This is a issue. IT CREATING UNKILLABLEBUILDS. The concept of HAVING IT ALL SHOULDN'T EXIST.
IT'S honestly bad gameplay. The scaling of damage should be rework to be more beneficial to choose damage over recovery.
A pure max damage build should have more damage to out dps a recovery build if a combo is landed. THE NUMBER ARE EXTREMELY OFF IN FAVOR OF RECOVERY BUILDS.

Some suggestions is to get a damage multiplier if all your recovery is under a 1000 in pvp.

Bashev

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

The biggest issue in pvp, is simple and super eazy to fix. The issue is damage and how it scales. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY. A recovery build is more dps than a damage build? It's also more Survivability and can tank the damage of a PURE DPS BUILD? Dps are lowering dps by way of removing jewelry for recovery or recovery food for more Survivability. This is a issue build it creating unkillable builds. The concept of HAVING IT ALL SHOULDN'T EXIST.
IT'S honestly bad gameplay. The scaling of damage should be rework to be more beneficial to choose damage over recovery.
A pure max damage build should have more damage to out dps a recovery build if a combo is landed. THE NUMBER ARE EXTREMELY OFF IN FAVOR OF RECOVERY BUILDS.

Some suggestions is to get a damage multiplier if all your recovery is under a 1000 in pvp.

The combat is complex and it is not white and black. If you want to outdps some recovery builds it means that the ppl who play with these recovery builds will mostly switch to dps too and then we will start one shoting each other.

BTW no offence but judging by your post I dont think that you had a lot of ESO PvP experience.

phoenixkungfu

Bashev wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

The biggest issue in pvp, is simple and super eazy to fix. The issue is damage and how it scales. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY. A recovery build is more dps than a damage build? It's also more Survivability and can tank the damage of a PURE DPS BUILD? Dps are lowering dps by way of removing jewelry for recovery or recovery food for more Survivability. This is a issue build it creating unkillable builds. The concept of HAVING IT ALL SHOULDN'T EXIST.
IT'S honestly bad gameplay. The scaling of damage should be rework to be more beneficial to choose damage over recovery.
A pure max damage build should have more damage to out dps a recovery build if a combo is landed. THE NUMBER ARE EXTREMELY OFF IN FAVOR OF RECOVERY BUILDS.

Some suggestions is to get a damage multiplier if all your recovery is under a 1000 in pvp.

The combat is complex and it is not white and black. If you want to outdps some recovery builds it means that the ppl who play with these recovery builds will mostly switch to dps too and then we will start one shoting each other.

BTW no offence but judging by your post I dont think that you had a lot of ESO PvP experience.

I have 280 days as a pet sorcerer and 5 stars in pvp. The scaling is off. It needs a rework. IF DONE RIGHT. Damage of build can remain the same. And reward using damage in jewelry enchantments.

The scaling is simply off.

BXR_Lonestar

I don't have a problem with people playing the survivability/recovery/sustain game in PVP combat. The big problem IMO is that the majority, if not the vast majority of players are running around with heavy armor. When that occurs, you know that the incentive to run medium or light armor is lacking. Why not wear heavy armor when it doesn't come with a heavy enough damage or sustain penalty to push you towards light or heavy armor to gain more DPS or sustain?

I don't want heavy armor nerfed, as decreasing sustain or survivability while wearing heavy armor would hurt a critical role in PVE - ie, tanks. But I do think that there should be more incentive to wear light and medium armor in PVP so that the fight between someone in heavy armor and someone in medium/light armor is a more even engagement on average. Perhaps they should look at implementing, via battle spirit, heavy armor penalties that are present in other ESO games, where heavy armor users suffer a spell damage penalty and a stamina penalty when sprinting? A slight adjustment like that may be enough to shift more players towards using medium and light armor, depending on playstyle.

Kadoin

The thing is, there is more than one way to get damage. If ZOS does what you want, you will be the first one back on this board complaining.

Every build has it's limit somewhere, somehow. It's up to you to find that limit and build in a way that does not limit you when you actively play in PvP.

phoenixkungfu

The number in term of damage. How if scales with (magic or stam) +(spell or weapon damage) is off. IT CREATING UNKILLABLE BUILDS. MAINLY BECAUSE IT REWARD GOING FOR RECOVERY AFTER PICKING YOUR DPS SETS.

phoenixkungfu

The system as it is now. Almost always is more rewarding to pick recovery glyphs. A dps should want max damage stat to be effective at burst. AND SACRIFICE RECOVERY FOR DPS. THIS WOULD CREATE FASTER GAMEPLAY. It's a win win. The damage number as a equation IS OFF. IT NEEDS A REWORK

TequilaFire

No duh, pick a sustain and a damage set or be a one shot and die wonder.
TTK is way too short as it is, how about we actually fight?

phoenixkungfu

TequilaFire wrote: »

No duh, pick a sustain and a damage set or be a one shot and die wonder.

Your build concept is EVERYTHING WRONG WITH ESO. A DPS SOULD BE BALANCE Around MAX DAMAGE STATS that sacrifice RECOVERY. The sustain and damage equation is creating UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS.

StormeReigns

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

No duh, pick a sustain and a damage set or be a one shot and die wonder.

Your build concept is EVERYTHING WRONG WITH ESO. A DPS SOULD BE BALANCE Around MAX DAMAGE STATS that sacrifice RECOVERY. The sustain and damage equation is creating UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS.

Log on, take a screen shot of your Awesome HA Pet Sorc build (that you claim that all others sorcs have stolen from you as well) and post it. Show us what a "correct" build is suppose to look like for PvP.

Also...

https://youtu.be/aekfPU0SwNw

Daffen

Is eso pvp you can play however you want, you can play a ganking playstyle one shotting every unsuspecting player you meet. Or you can play a tank that is able to tank 10-20 players at the same time. There are builds capable of surviving multiple people while still dealing enough damage to burst people down (1vX builds). These builds are perfectly balanced in both damage, sustain and tankiness. These builds are often played by experienced pvp players capable of observing the fight and make decisions in their favour. If they make mistakes, they will get punished, often with their death. Thats how these players improve so fast. They are able to see and learn from their mistakes and they learn to play. People are playing glass-cannon builds and killing multiple inexperienced players simply because they have way more experience in beeing at a disadvantage. They can kill almost all builds except for some builds that are way too tanky or are played by an experienced player as well. A duel between two experienced players will end once one of them makes a mistake and will most likely not end before that.

phoenixkungfu

I'm playing a full damage build without pets or heavyattack. My stats ON MY DAMAGE BAR IS 53454 magic, 2910 spell 45%crit. Even with max damage
Build with recovery can take a full damage combo of curse, crystal blast, endless and overload(as a light attack cancel) total value of 67,642 damage. Tank it and burst me down and never run out of recovery.

Its clearly the damage equation. The numbers are off.

phoenixkungfu

Daffen wrote: »

Is eso pvp you can play however you want, you can play a ganking playstyle one shotting every unsuspecting player you meet. Or you can play a tank that is able to tank 10-20 players at the same time. There are builds capable of surviving multiple people while still dealing enough damage to burst people down (1vX builds). These builds are perfectly balanced in both damage, sustain and tankiness. These builds are often played by experienced pvp players capable of observing the fight and make decisions in their favour. If they make mistakes, they will get punished, often with their death. Thats how these players improve so fast. They are able to see and learn from their mistakes and they learn to play. People are playing glass-cannon builds and killing multiple inexperienced players simply because they have way more experience in beeing at a disadvantage. They can kill almost all builds except for some builds that are way too tanky or are played by an experienced player as well. A duel between two experienced players will end once one of them makes a mistake and will most likely not end before that.

This is not a question of experience or whatever. It's a question of recovery stat vs damage stat as a dps.

TEST IT OUT

WEAR ANY TWO DAMAGE SET THEN
add recovery in the jewelry vs damage
Recovery food vs tri stat

The recovery jewelry with outperformed BY ALOT the damage jewelry

This concept is creating unkillable DAMAGE builds.

D3N7157

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm playing a full damage build without pets or heavyattack. My stats ON MY DAMAGE BAR IS 53454 magic, 2910 spell 45%crit. Even with max damage
Build with recovery can take a full damage combo of curse, crystal blast, endless and overload(as a light attack cancel) total value of 67,642 damage. Tank it and burst me down and never run out of recovery.

Its clearly the damage equation. The numbers are off.

A skilled player will not take nearly as much damage as you think, he will roll/block your frags/avoid the rest of your combo, and you can get tanked and spanked like this in seconds there must be some other underlaying issues you have might not even be your build tbh...

Seems to me you just want an ez mode where you can 1 shot anybody with no counterplay...

phoenixkungfu

D3N7157 wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm playing a full damage build without pets or heavyattack. My stats ON MY DAMAGE BAR IS 53454 magic, 2910 spell 45%crit. Even with max damage
Build with recovery can take a full damage combo of curse, crystal blast, endless and overload(as a light attack cancel) total value of 67,642 damage. Tank it and burst me down and never run out of recovery.

Its clearly the damage equation. The numbers are off.

A skilled player will not take nearly as much damage as you think, he will roll/block your frags/avoid the rest of your combo, and you can get tanked and spanked like this in seconds there must be some other underlaying issues you have might not even be your build tbh...

Seems to me you just want an ez mode where you can 1 shot anybody with no counterplay...

WRONG, build with recovery can face tank a full ccombo. AS YOU HIT CONFIRM WITH A STUN. the values are off on the damage equation.

Daffen

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Daffen wrote: »

Is eso pvp you can play however you want, you can play a ganking playstyle one shotting every unsuspecting player you meet. Or you can play a tank that is able to tank 10-20 players at the same time. There are builds capable of surviving multiple people while still dealing enough damage to burst people down (1vX builds). These builds are perfectly balanced in both damage, sustain and tankiness. These builds are often played by experienced pvp players capable of observing the fight and make decisions in their favour. If they make mistakes, they will get punished, often with their death. Thats how these players improve so fast. They are able to see and learn from their mistakes and they learn to play. People are playing glass-cannon builds and killing multiple inexperienced players simply because they have way more experience in beeing at a disadvantage. They can kill almost all builds except for some builds that are way too tanky or are played by an experienced player as well. A duel between two experienced players will end once one of them makes a mistake and will most likely not end before that.

This is not a question of experience or whatever. It's a question of recovery stat vs damage stat as a dps.

TEST IT OUT

WEAR ANY TWO DAMAGE SET THEN
add recovery in the jewelry vs damage
Recovery food vs tri stat

The recovery jewelry with outperformed BY ALOT the damage jewelry

This concept is creating unkillable DAMAGE builds.

Record some footage of you playing the game, i will decide if there is an issue with the game or if you are not experienced enough. Before you say anything, hours and pvp rank has nothing to do with your experience as everyone can follow the zerg spamming light attacks and get to level 50.

Sanctum74

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm playing a full damage build without pets or heavyattack. My stats ON MY DAMAGE BAR IS 53454 magic, 2910 spell 45%crit. Even with max damage
Build with recovery can take a full damage combo of curse, crystal blast, endless and overload(as a light attack cancel) total value of 67,642 damage. Tank it and burst me down and never run out of recovery.

Its clearly the damage equation. The numbers are off.

I think you’ve just played a certain play style for so long you don’t understand how different builds and counters work. You don't need a recovery or heavy armor build to mitigate damage or have good sustain. There are passives and skills that help with that. Using things like block, roll dodge, los, and keeping buffs/hots up also help.

You also have to consider you are using curse and crystal blast which gives people more than enough time to react to your burst. Most of the people you are struggling against are probably also wearing full damage builds in light or medium armor.

witchdoctor

Dearest, OP

If every one of your posts is about the SINGLE BIGGEST ISSUE in PVP; then, really, none of them are.

Also, 2018 called. It wants its sorc build back.

phoenixkungfu

Daffen wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Daffen wrote: »

Is eso pvp you can play however you want, you can play a ganking playstyle one shotting every unsuspecting player you meet. Or you can play a tank that is able to tank 10-20 players at the same time. There are builds capable of surviving multiple people while still dealing enough damage to burst people down (1vX builds). These builds are perfectly balanced in both damage, sustain and tankiness. These builds are often played by experienced pvp players capable of observing the fight and make decisions in their favour. If they make mistakes, they will get punished, often with their death. Thats how these players improve so fast. They are able to see and learn from their mistakes and they learn to play. People are playing glass-cannon builds and killing multiple inexperienced players simply because they have way more experience in beeing at a disadvantage. They can kill almost all builds except for some builds that are way too tanky or are played by an experienced player as well. A duel between two experienced players will end once one of them makes a mistake and will most likely not end before that.

This is not a question of experience or whatever. It's a question of recovery stat vs damage stat as a dps.

TEST IT OUT

WEAR ANY TWO DAMAGE SET THEN
add recovery in the jewelry vs damage
Recovery food vs tri stat

The recovery jewelry with outperformed BY ALOT the damage jewelry

This concept is creating unkillable DAMAGE builds.

Record some footage of you playing the game, i will decide if there is an issue with the game or if you are not experienced enough. Before you say anything, hours and pvp rank has nothing to do with your experience as everyone can follow the zerg spamming light attacks and get to level 50.

Right, you dont understand PVP. If you cant see this as THE ISSUE. ITS THE DAMAGE EQUATION. It's a eazy fix

SOLUTION 1(EAZY FIX)
GIVE A DAMAGE ability MULTIPLIER for
all recovery being under 1000. In pvp

SOLUTION 2 (FIX DAMAGE EQUATION)
have it Dramatically Reward DAMAGE ENCHANTMENT AND food without recovery.

idk

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY.

If someone wants to create a bad build with no recovery that is their problem. One has to be smart with creating their build to make sure they have enough recovery to support their damage stats.

You falsely make it appear that a build is either recovery or damage stats because the reality is a good build has both.

Edit: Unkillable build is a completely separate topic to this.

oXI_Viper_IXo

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

This concept is creating unkillable DAMAGE builds.

Just because YOU can't kill them doesn't make them unkillable.

Now can we PLEASE STOP randomly yelling and use our INSIDE VOICES?

phoenixkungfu

idk wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY.

recovery or damage stats because the reality is a good build has both.

AND THIS IS THE ISSUE. This concept off "HAVING IT ALL" is bad for the game and creating UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS.

TequilaFire

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

No duh, pick a sustain and a damage set or be a one shot and die wonder.

Your build concept is EVERYTHING WRONG WITH ESO. A DPS SOULD BE BALANCE Around MAX DAMAGE STATS that sacrifice RECOVERY. The sustain and damage equation is creating UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS.

I haven't met a player in a build I couldn't kill yet unless that player out plays me and I deserve to be killed.
Note - being zerged down doesn't count. lol

Gundug

Isn’t this post sort of like running a race car that has everything put into horsepower and nothing into braking and cornering, and then complaining about all the other teams out braking you and beating you around the corners? Is the solution for being competitive to whine to the series organizers that they should get rid of all the turns, or is it to maybe better adapt your car to the tracks everyone else seems to have a better handle on?

LukosCreyden

The only unkillable builds I've ever seen are tanks; the ones that run around trees and distract the zerg folk. Fair play to you, tanky guy, but you do zero damage so I'll ignore you.

Any other build I've seen has been killable, with some work. Building a character that can keep itself alive is common sense.

If done right, a glass-cannon can and will kill people quickly, but they have to be on-point with their set-up and skill combos. Remember, people build their characters to take punishment in Cyrodiil; not everyone enjoys the "nuke or be nuked" play style.

If you find yourself consistently unable to burst people effectively, you may need to take a closer look at your sets, skills, CP, Mundus etc.

Bucky_13

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm playing a full damage build without pets or heavyattack. My stats ON MY DAMAGE BAR IS 53454 magic, 2910 spell 45%crit. Even with max damage
Build with recovery can take a full damage combo of curse, crystal blast, endless and overload(as a light attack cancel) total value of 67,642 damage. Tank it and burst me down and never run out of recovery.

Its clearly the damage equation. The numbers are off.

Ummm.... you have 2910 spell damage and claim to be "TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY"? That's actually pretty funny.

So, I have a pure damage build for no cp, it has around 4532 weapon damage completely unbuffed, and 5506 weapon damage with rally active which I do have a close to 100% percent uptime on. Got crap recovery, around 19k health, 41% crit. 2910 weapon/spell damage is very much average and not exactly TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS".

'EDIT: all my recovery is actually below 1k.

A lot of the combat also has to do with timing, even I can survive a lot of damage over a short period of time despite being a glass cannon (I can heal for over 40-50k health in a 4 second window). But when someone hits me at the right time I'm dead. Also stuns, which is one of the main reasons I die in those situations, or kill other players since getting stunned when you have 10-20% health left and no HoT on you is usually not a good thing.

phoenixkungfu

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The only unkillable builds I've ever seen are tanks; the ones that run around trees and distract the zerg folk. Fair play to you, tanky guy, but you do zero damage so I'll ignore you.

Any other build I've seen has been killable, with some work. Building a character that can keep itself alive is common sense.

If done right, a glass-cannon can and will kill people quickly, but they have to be on-point with their set-up and skill combos. Remember, people build their characters to take punishment in Cyrodiil; not everyone enjoys the "nuke or be nuked" play style.

If you find yourself consistently unable to burst people effectively, you may need to take a closer look at your sets, skills, CP, Mundus etc.

NOPE TEST IT OUT.
USE OPTIMIZE CHAMPION POINTS.
Wear two damage sets
In jewelry just recovery vs damage
And recovery food vs tri food

The recovery jewelry will OUT PREFORM THE DAMAGE JEWELRY BY ALOT.

it's not a question of champion points. ITS A QUESTION OF THE DAMAGE EQUATION.

Jeremy

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

idk wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY.

recovery or damage stats because the reality is a good build has both.

AND THIS IS THE ISSUE. This concept off "HAVING IT ALL" is bad for the game and creating UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS.

Do you see these UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS in none CP PvP? Or are they just in CP oriented campaigns? Because I have never seen them and I do quite a bit of PvP (none CP).

phoenixkungfu

Jeremy wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

idk wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

. Its honestly not rewarding to be a TRUE PURE ALL DAMAGE DPS WITH NO RECOVERY.

recovery or damage stats because the reality is a good build has both.

AND THIS IS THE ISSUE. This concept off "HAVING IT ALL" is bad for the game and creating UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS.

Do you see these UNKILLABLE DAMAGE BUILDS in none CP PvP? Or are they just in CP oriented campaigns. Because I have never seen them and I do quite a bit of PvP (none CP).

Both, ITS NOT CP. ITS THE DAMAGE EQUATION. The damage equation. And the abilitie to have it all. THE DAMAGE EQUATION NEEDS A REWORK.

Qrähe

Not buying it, post your build. In No CP I can achieve better spell damage and crit chance. So my bet is you aren't running a good build at all, you aren't even running a pure damage build. A pure spell damage build without even adding in a nirn staff would be 2k spell damage using infused spell glyphs tri jewelery and law of Jul and nma. So ya your build is not even close to pure damage, it's something else. So post up this pure damage build you got.

Sanctum74

Qrähe wrote: »

Not buying it, post your build. In No CP I can achieve better spell damage and crit chance. So my bet is you aren't running a good build at all, you aren't even running a pure damage build. A pure spell damage build without even adding in a nirn staff would be 2k spell damage using infused spell glyphs tri jewelery and law of Jul and nma. So ya your build is not even close to pure damage, it's something else. So post up this pure damage build you got.

In his defense 53k magic is a pure damage build, if you build for spell damage you’re doing it wrong.