I believe the game needs an advanced tutorial system to help players learn the game mechanics.

Knowledge

Aside of the general tip on the loading screens there exists nothing, aside of the community, to instruct the players on advanced game play. There are many players that do not know when to interrupt, block, dodge, or that weaving is ideal.

I believe an advanced series of solo trials with a more robust tutorial system is in order.

thorwyn

No.
Those players that want to get better and progress will learn by asking or looking up stuff. It's way faster to just read about strategies and tactics than playing through a dull test chamber dungeon.
Those players that just want to jump in and have fun or do their own thing will skip the tutorials or just click through them and learn nothing. It is WAY too much effort to create extra content for a minority of players when everything is working just fine.

thorwyn

Also... you simply can not teach a player when to block and when to dodge. It is completly situational and changes from dungeon to dungeon, trial to trial and mob to mob. Ocasionally, you are even supposed to NOT inerrupt and ability if you want to survive.

Chicharron

No.

It took me a year to be the amazing healer I am, it's more rewarding this way.

It feels better to learn empirically

Hotdog_23

No to testing chamber.

What I would like it if the tooltips would have an expanded section that would tell us what kind or damage it was such AOE, direct, physical or type etc. Also, what champion points effect it both positively and if any negatively affect it. We should not have to go to 3rd party sites to find this information. The expanded section does not always have to show the information just an area you can select if you want to. The same can be said for sets in the game, expanded section with the above information.

ForzaRammer

No thx, community can self regulate

zyk

There should definitely be a training dungeon to teach mechanics and roles.

The target skeletons had an incredible impact on improving the overall skill level of the playerbase IMO. A training dungeon would have the potential to have an even greater impact.

relentless_turnip

I agree with you there mate👍

If you happen to need any help in the meantime I'm on pc EU: @relentless_turnip

kargen27

Nah this is a player created problem and should be fixed by we players. Not enough experienced players are willing to help out new players outside their guild. That is what needs to change.

scottii

Protip. Search engines, streamers, and Youtube.

zyk

Chicharron wrote: »

No.

It took me a year to be the amazing healer I am, it's more rewarding this way.

It feels better to learn empirically

If there were a training instance, players could still do that if they preferred.

There's no downside, but huge upsides. For example, if everyone had a better grasp of advanced mechanics:

- ZOS would face less opposition when introducing challenging content
- there would be fewer requests to eliminate animation cancelling
- there would be fewer accusations of cheating
- the PUG experience would improve
- there would be a larger pool of players available to organized guilds
- there would be better forum discussions
- there would be more knowledgeable players capable of helping their friends
- there would be fewer players spreading misinformation

Luckylancer

Game do good job about interrupt and dodge. New players see notification untill they disable it in options.

I did not see any animation canceling in any tutorial. A level 50 or cp160 advanced tutorial will be nice.

colossalvoids

I believe they could make it pretty successful if will have right approach. Most players have no idea what they are doing as came from different game backgrounds and are too different mentally, lots of them don't even want to improve at all.

One of the variants may be kind of a solo trial, not mandatory one but put there some skin and couple of costumes to obtain, maybe motif drop chance for every completion and people will definitely go there to train. Also lore background needed to blend in, like some lost Akaviri fortress or temple where ghost of a warrior leads you through danger. Messages popping up with mechanics explanations and tips should be in place but guess they might be intelligent enough to make it intuitive experience. Also might be a good idea to have it in different difficulty modes (with no reward, maybe an achievement) so people actually wanting to improve further will be able to do it.

Neoealth

Lets face it, most content in this game is so easy that most players have no need for blocking and interrupts. So it's hardly surprising they don't realize they ideally need to perform those actions until they hit the much less frequent harder content, then it's suddenly time for a reality check and crash course in the basics.

Neoealth

kargen27 wrote: »

Nah this is a player created problem and should be fixed by we players. Not enough experienced players are willing to help out new players outside their guild. That is what needs to change.

That is bs. Tons of players help out new people all the time, not to mention the vast wealth of youtube videos like guides etc. The problem is with how the game for 99% plays like animal crossing, then suddenly turns into dark souls for the other 1% of the time.

And the game does a terrible job in preparing players for that. Most players do in fact learn from each other, I see it time and time again.

Marolf

Anyone remember when games didn't have tutorials and only sometimes an instruction manual? How did we ever get by?

idk

If players are not retaining the knowledge of how to interrupt with the basic tutorial we have now why do we expect them to gain the knowledge if we have a shiny new tutorial teaching them how to interrupt?

Suggesting a new "advanced" tutorial without actually explaining how this will be more effective in teaching those to dense to grasp it already is an empty suggestion. One must have the knowledge to figure out how to reach those players to be able to come up with a worthwhile suggestion.

Chicharron

zyk wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

No.

It took me a year to be the amazing healer I am, it's more rewarding this way.

It feels better to learn empirically

If there were a training instance, players could still do that if they preferred.

There's no downside, but huge upsides. For example, if everyone had a better grasp of advanced mechanics:

- ZOS would face less opposition when introducing challenging content

It is for those seeking a challenge.

If X player can't make X content, it's because it's not designed for him.

I don't understand why some players want them to take them by the hand and take care of them.

As someone said above, I remember when the games only had a manual with very ambiguous instructions.

My first game was Zelda for NES, that feeling of not knowing what to do, I want all games to start like this.

StormeReigns

Chicharron wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

No.

It took me a year to be the amazing healer I am, it's more rewarding this way.

It feels better to learn empirically

If there were a training instance, players could still do that if they preferred.

There's no downside, but huge upsides. For example, if everyone had a better grasp of advanced mechanics:

- ZOS would face less opposition when introducing challenging content

It is for those seeking a challenge.

If X player can't make X content, it's because it's not designed for him.

I don't understand why some players want them to take them by the hand and take care of them.

As someone said above, I remember when the games only had a manual with very ambiguous instructions.

My first game was Zelda for NES, that feeling of not knowing what to do, I want all games to start like this.

Castelvania Had probably the best instruction manual.
Front Cover > (i & ii) Legal Info Pages > (iii) Table of Contents page > 10 Pages of backstory and art > 1 page for Controls > 2 pages for Developer Credits-Info > Back Cover

zyk

Marolf wrote: »

Anyone remember when games didn't have tutorials and only sometimes an instruction manual? How did we ever get by?

Actually, for decades, pretty much every game had at least one manual.

A problem with ESO is that it's so easy that players don't really need to learn the mechanics while playing. Even in normal dungeons, most mechanics are completely irrelevant.

Many new players are deluded by their success open world. Some may assume they are pretty good because they are effortlessly successful. Then they hit the hard wall of vet content and PVP which can be both extremely frustrating and embarrassing.

A well-designed game doesn't need an explicit tutorial because the tutorials are woven into the content. In such a game, a player would need to learn how to weave attacks to defeat a boss at perhaps level 20. At level 30, perhaps they need to learn how to keep buffs up to win an encounter. The same was true of the old great NES games. ESO wasn't designed this way.

This wall is an impediment to the success of ESO and why I think the end game has always been unpopular. Many players don't want to learn the game from, essentially, scratch 100+ hours in when they have so many bad habits to correct because the game design let them play how they wanted. This is true in both vet PVE and PVP content.

It's normal for PVP games to have practice areas to learn and improve skills outside of games, so I don't see why the idea should be abhorrent for gradually improving PVE skills with interesting challenges and tools that teach skills and evaluate. There could be a PVP mode with bots that present players with PVP scenarios.

VaranisArano

Optional training or a refresher course would be good.

Sometimes I see posts from new tanks asking about how to recognize mechanics like interrupts, and I've always had to tell them to go fight certain mobs like storm atronachs if they want to train themselves.

And doing something beyond level up tips to teach weaving would be really beneficial since it continues to be a large portion of DPS. Unlike game mechanics like off balance and interrupts, weaving isn't taught or practiced in the tutorial. That's probably because its hard to teach immersively, which makes it a perfect candidate for a training instance.

Is it a top priority? Nah.
Could it be beneficial? Yes.

relentless_turnip

zyk wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

No.

It took me a year to be the amazing healer I am, it's more rewarding this way.

It feels better to learn empirically

If there were a training instance, players could still do that if they preferred.

There's no downside, but huge upsides. For example, if everyone had a better grasp of advanced mechanics:

- ZOS would face less opposition when introducing challenging content
- there would be fewer requests to eliminate animation cancelling
- there would be fewer accusations of cheating
- the PUG experience would improve
- there would be a larger pool of players available to organized guilds
- there would be better forum discussions
- there would be more knowledgeable players capable of helping their friends
- there would be fewer players spreading misinformation

I totally agree with this, there is zero impact on those of us who already understand the mechanics, but everything to gain for new players and those we end up being matched with.

Dusk_Coven

zyk wrote: »

Marolf wrote: »

Anyone remember when games didn't have tutorials and only sometimes an instruction manual? How did we ever get by?

Actually, for decades, pretty much every game had at least one manual.

So did the VCR. No one really wanted to read them though.
Muddling through and learning as you go -- wanting to figure things out as they go -- is probably part of the gamer psyche.

StormeReigns

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Marolf wrote: »

Anyone remember when games didn't have tutorials and only sometimes an instruction manual? How did we ever get by?

Actually, for decades, pretty much every game had at least one manual.

So did the VCR. No one really wanted to read them though.

And very few gave instructions on how to set the clock, thus millions of VCRs had 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00

zyk

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Marolf wrote: »

Anyone remember when games didn't have tutorials and only sometimes an instruction manual? How did we ever get by?

Actually, for decades, pretty much every game had at least one manual.

So did the VCR. No one really wanted to read them though.

True. Before onscreen displays, probably .01% of the population was capable of programming a vcr. But for games, every group of friends in my community had one member who would read the effing manual and teach the others how to play properly. There was no way around this because in many games, especially complex PC games, the manuals included essential information.

Good gamers used to read the manuals just like good gamers today find the most authoritative source of information. Ignorance has never been a desired part of the gamer psyche.

StormeReigns wrote: »

And very few gave instructions on how to set the clock, thus millions of VCRs had 0:00 0:00 0:00 0:00

As the guy who used to program everyones VCR clock for them, I can say in my experience they normally did. At least while vcrs were still relevant.

They were unset because most people don't read manuals. Which is exactly why a good tutorial instance to better teach mechanics in an interesting way would be so beneficial.