Getting rid of bash weaving

zvavi

I know that we all have our own opinion on how the game should be played, and it is fine. I mostly want to know what does the community think about getting rid of bash weaving. Something like, reduce cost of bash by 60%, remove current dmg of bash. Bash deals double current damage if interrupts. Change s/b passive that has something to do with bash to something else.

The suggestion above is just an example of ways to get rid of bash from the meta, and not the thing I want the discussion to be about. So. To the question. Should we get rid of bash weaving?

zvavi

Please add your thoughts and reasons.

Gnortranermara

Yes. And remove bash damage from pvp as well.

Removing the damage entirely is overkill, but the regular default bash should be minuscule unless special modifiers are in place (S&B, special bash-oriented sets, enchants, interrupts, a spiky Antiquity shield, whatever). For most, it should be a defensive mechanic, not a DPS mechanic, but that doesn't mean they can't make it better for those who want to invest in running the modifiers.

JasonWangTaiwan

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

I prefer they keep both and implement a minimal animal cancel timing to skill so you won't see some skill canceled right after they took affect.
Cancel you skill to confuse your opponent is one thing, its poor design if you can't even tell what that skill is if most of animation has been canceled.
The animation should render minimal duration before it can be canceled otherwise you just see character doing awkward movement and still do damage.

WrathOfInnos

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

I’m not a big fan of bash weaving, but plenty of people enjoy it and I see no reason to take that option away. It’s not even a significant DPS gain in trials (at most a few k, usually about zero). It’s certainly not required to complete everything in the game, even score pushing can be done without bash weaving. The main use for it seems to be dummy parsing, where Stamina is not required for blocking/dodging.

WiseSky

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

Bash weaving is the only part of my rotation I love.

colossalvoids

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

What else you should occupy yourself with in such a boring fights like Yolna?

On a more serious note it's not even close to "overpowered" or mandatory in real raid scenario so why would you care? Only thing that might do is to do zero damage at iron atro dummy so no feelings/ego would be hurt by inflated parses from your favourite streamer of choice.

idk

No offense but there are only two answers for the poll. Yes and No.

In other words, the first choice is irrelevant because Zos will not have a different combat system for PvE than what is in PvP. We are not talking about skills performing differently but the core base behavior of the combat system.

redspecter23

Bash weaving is great for what it's supposed to do. You interrupt your attack or block with a timely bash when necessary. Perhaps the damage component should be drastically reduced or even removed so that it's not encouraged in min/max dps setups. If necessary it could apply some debuff to target if they are successfully interrupted to encourage the use without adding extra damage directly

Alucardo

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

SnB has been tampered with enough, and bash weaving is purely optional. It's a skill used by those who practice it to squeeze a little more DPS out of their rotation, but you do not need to do it. Because of this it should be left alone.

Dusk_Coven

All animation cancelling has to go -- light attack weaving, block cancelling, all of it.
It's an exploit that ZOS has allowed for too long and clearly they can't support it properly.
They should use Alacrity instead. http://gq-game-mods.blogspot.com/2020/04/elder-scrolls-online-how-to-introduce-fast-paced-combat.html A mechanic that would be properly implemented, intended, and UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE DEVS.
Not some nonsensical non-intuitive animation cancelling lobbied for by exploiters.

Olupajmibanan

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

Bash weaving is insignificant dps gain in trials but you have one additional thing to worry about. Effort outweights gain in this case. But if some min-maxing tryhard really wants that 500 dps more at the cost of willingly burdening himself, why not?

Ps: Dummy parsing is not a worthy reference at all and shouldn't be taken seriously.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

soz to say, there is gear sets set around bash and thus needs to stay ingame in pve and pvp, the real issue is the power creep, from cp points etc, zos instead needs to lower dps output in the game and to start to understand how the game is play, in pvp dps is way to high, as you often find not 1 on you but anything from 5 to 50 all targeting you

Alucardo

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

All animation cancelling has to go -- light attack weaving, block cancelling, all of it.
It's an exploit that ZOS has allowed for too long and clearly they can't support it properly.
They should use Alacrity instead. http://gq-game-mods.blogspot.com/2020/04/elder-scrolls-online-how-to-introduce-fast-paced-combat.html A mechanic that would be properly implemented, intended, and UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE DEVS.
Not some nonsensical non-intuitive animation cancelling lobbied for by exploiters.

Exploit? Bro it's literally one of the loading screen tips



On top of that, ZOS have already stated that it's an intended mechanic and there's nothing wrong with it. Get your facts straight before calling something an exploit.

FakeFox

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

Bash weaving is in no way essential to achieving anything. It is just a small additional DPS gain for those who put in the effort and that is a great way of rewarding skill and allowing for more complex rotations.

Protossyder

@zvavi and your reasons are..?

Why should a player that is able to squeeze another action in his rotation and taking a risk at the same time (since it's costing stamina), not be rewarded with slightly increased damage?

Runefang

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

I've only just started using it myself and its quite fun especially on a Magblade.

robpr

Yes. And remove bash damage from pvp as well.

Bash weave is a bad mechanic and should be used just for interrupting, not damage.
-Very high ping and fps dependency with minuscule returns of up to 2-3k dps increase but is heavily enforced by various guilds to do top end stuff
-Widens the 'sKiLl GaP' by adding high APM arguments for zos
-Forces everyone to melee range
-Puts user into unnecessary risks by draining stamina. Double danger for magicka chars that stamina pool is naturally small.
-Consoles cannot use it at all due to forcibly two button combination
-Obscures the skill animation to the point that opponent can simply not see whats hitting him beside bash. This is not skillful play - skillful play is use rock when opponent currently tries to use scissors by using correct skill, stun and position instead of hiding every attack.

Donny_Vito

Alucardo wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

All animation cancelling has to go -- light attack weaving, block cancelling, all of it.
It's an exploit that ZOS has allowed for too long and clearly they can't support it properly.
They should use Alacrity instead. http://gq-game-mods.blogspot.com/2020/04/elder-scrolls-online-how-to-introduce-fast-paced-combat.html A mechanic that would be properly implemented, intended, and UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE DEVS.
Not some nonsensical non-intuitive animation cancelling lobbied for by exploiters.

Exploit? Bro it's literally one of the loading screen tips



On top of that, ZOS have already stated that it's an intended mechanic and there's nothing wrong with it. Get your facts straight before calling something an exploit.

Yes I think it's safe to say that it is fully accepted as a feature of the game now, as they've even added some tutorials on it. If you watch some of the earlier videos of chats with devs, it wasn't so black and white then. But obviously ZoS has taken the stance that it is a feature, so we just need to live with it.

PrimusNephilim

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

learn to adapt, overcome and improvise would be my suggestion

Raisin

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

I don't DD a lot, so I only discovered the joys of bash weaving when I Incorporated it into my zen/mk rotation. Absolutely fell in love with it. It's so fun and feels so smooth.

ThePedge

No. Keep bash weave in PvE

Literally no issue.

It's add minimal DPS for large resource demand.

ZOS_Lunar

Greetings! We've removed a few posts from this thread due to violating our rules on bashing.

It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic.

zvavi

Protossyder wrote: »

and your reasons are..?

Why should a player that is able to squeeze another action in his rotation and taking a risk at the same time (since it's costing stamina), not be rewarded with slightly increased damage?

1. zos stated that they want to lower the ceiling, and remove advantages high gcd has.
2. Tbh one of the reasons I want to remove it is that it just feels...weird. it would make much more sense for it to have shared gcd with light attacks, and be used as a strategic counter play, more than another way to deal dmg in your rotation.
3. Reduce server load. Yep. One of the legit reasons to remove bash weaving.
4. I don't remember a thread that was focused on bash weaving.

But hey, I did try to make the poll as not biased as I could (excluding the title that was there to attract attention).

The most sound argument to leaving it as it is (which was here few times) is that the gain is very little (lower than 2%). And as long as it is, you guys are probably correct, and it is fine to leave as is, but if some weird *** changes from developers hit, and people will have to sustain bash weave for more than 5% increase, that's where I truly believe it should stop.

Gariele

Raisin wrote: »

I don't DD a lot, so I only discovered the joys of bash weaving when I Incorporated it into my zen/mk rotation. Absolutely fell in love with it. It's so fun and feels so smooth.

It really does help keep Stam in the sweet spot to proc MK. Totally agree with this