Love the Villains (The Return)

Inhuman003

In Elder Scrolls Online, Mannimarco is the second main villain that what it to take over Tamriel, By using the Daedric prince Molag Bal.

Is Mannimarco the villain we need to see the new heroes that were once villains themselves to add in the fight?

The light is bright for a second chance of life on the chopping block.

Raisin

Just No on Mannimarco

I feel like it might devaluate his later return? He's kind of forced to stay in hiding a bit. I'm not personally keen on having him have another return, then going back into hiding again, then resurfacing again for the whole lich ordeal. He already has so much of a story, don't overdo it.

TheShadowScout

Other

...uhm... you DO know that Mannimarco does indeed return someday... in other TES games! (TES-II:Daggerfall and TES-IV:Oblivion, respectively). Yeah, he is killed in ESO - but a good necromancer never let that sort of minor setback stop 'em. And so, in due time, he will rise once more... but that will take a while.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco

Anything more in ESO would really be overusing the character methinks... after all, "been there, done that in", right?

And its not like there aren't more then enough more interesting villains to be thought up. Or even dredged up if they wanted to showcase some figures from TES lore...

VaranisArano

He's either rebuilding his strength or working out how to escape Coldharbor, depending on what decision you made in the Main Quest.

Also Daggerfall.
Also Oblivion.

I like the guy, but I'd prefer other villains.
(Hopefully with less laughable names than "Zumog Phoom" in the future. How anyone in Elsweyr takes that guy seriously is beyond me.)

StormeReigns

Just No on Mannimarco

Raisin wrote: »

I feel like it might devaluate his later return? He's kind of forced to stay in hiding a bit. I'm not personally keen on having him have another return, then going back into hiding again, then resurfacing again for the whole lich ordeal. He already has so much of a story, don't overdo it.

I agree. While, yes, he is a fantastic villain. The right amount of ham, pompous arrogance, treachery and ego rolled into one. If anything, just tidbits, like in Summerset where we learned a brief bit of his studies, nothing more.
If introduced, I hope it is more chasing shadows, discovering more about him and his travels after getting booted out of the Psijic order. Just not facing him or a shadow of him - learning more about him would be cool.

ProfessorKittyhawk

Just No on Mannimarco

Seeing his "return" in the form of visions of the past in a delve quest on Artaeum was enough for me. Learning a bit of his backstory and how it ties in with Vanus Galerion was interesting.

Mortiis13

The King of Worms return in a Chapter

well I let him free before u faced molag bal just to see him again, a bit disappointed that it never happened

ArchangelIsraphel

Just No on Mannimarco

Don't give in to peer pressure kids. Just say no to Mannimarco.

LadyNalcarya

Just No on Mannimarco

Actually I would like to see more... relatable villains. Mannimarco is kinda cool and all, but I'm kinda tired of those pure evil characters. Unfortunately, the main antagonist in Greymoor seems to be of the same sort.

opaj

The King of Worms return in a Chapter

It's not that I particularly like Mannimarco, but I'd love to take part in the epic showdown between Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion, which is supposed to happen around this point in Tamriel's history.

TheShadowScout

Other

opaj wrote: »

It's not that I particularly like Mannimarco, but I'd love to take part in the epic showdown between Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion, which is supposed to happen around this point in Tamriel's history.

More like a bit later in the game.

Remember, Mannimarco was still alive until he gets killed at Sancre Tor, and his history shows he will rebuild his power as a lich, restart the worm cults rise to power, and THEN the final showdown happens!

That certainly sounds like at the point of ESO, mannimarco has quite a bit of rebuiolding to do, considering how much his worm cult has lost its... potency. With the events of ESO and all that.

And like said... we have done that already, the powers that be certainly are not gonna serve their players a warmed up version of stuff they already kicked in the nu... uhm... behind.
Thus... we might get just as evil villains, but they won't be mannimacro necromancers, but... other baddies. I mean, we had necromancers, oblivion invasions, celestrial shennannigans, daedric conspiracies, dragons and now vampires... but there is still a lot of evil left to face in the coming years... I myself am hoping for more mortal intrigue and conflict, more stuff like the Orsinium story where its just the schemes of a king and his mommy...

Jaimeh

The King of Worms return in a Chapter

If it means we get more trailer!Mannimarco, then yes!

Sylvermynx

Other

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...uhm... you DO know that Mannimarco does indeed return someday... in other TES games! (TES-II:Daggerfall and TES-IV:Oblivion, respectively). Yeah, he is killed in ESO - but a good necromancer never let that sort of minor setback stop 'em. And so, in due time, he will rise once more... but that will take a while.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco

Anything more in ESO would really be overusing the character methinks... after all, "been there, done that in", right?

And its not like there aren't more then enough more interesting villains to be thought up. Or even dredged up if they wanted to showcase some figures from TES lore...

This.

Aigym_Hlervu

Mannimarco is depicted as a typical modern characterless villain.. Perhaps if they hired someone like David Cage.. Until then Manny shows nothing outstanding especially in comparison even to some of the Daedric Princes. Sheogorath is the only one of them who deserves respect for the quality of his lore, while the others are plane and straightforward. Though I liked the Star Wars real canon for decades, I thought the same about Darth Vader, Palpatine, etc. They all are just comic book villains who share all the same features.. They are either good or bad, smart or mad, blond or red, A or B, dark or light. Sometimes they want to be the coolest, the most powerful, the most, the most, the most.. Why? Well, they want to save or destroy the world, to dominate, to be the best, etc.. Why?!.. Umph.. And there's no answer. The majority of villains are villains only because they either want to be the ones or are forced by the circumstances. That's all. But in order to create a really interesting villain his author has to create something more than a dumb thug who wants to rule the galaxy because he was forced to do it first and than he started to wish it.

They are no better than those James Bond adversaries.. Ah.. So silly they are.. I haven't seen any of the really interesting villain characters in fiction created in XXI century! Nothing at least equal to Hannibal Lecter, Sheogorath or, say, Keyser Söze. Neither heroes nor villains - none of them! But I was lucky enough to be proficient in several languages for some measure, so I could see some really great fictional villain characters of the past times in the fiction of different cultures. Some of them are really iconic. Well, here are just two of them I noticed in the Russian fiction. They both are based on the old good great German folklore and.. German history.. but they way they are depicted in Russian fiction staggers the imagination. Russian Woland, though based on the Mephistopheles character is a way much more developed character than J.W. Goethe's creation. I can't describe him with words - you have either to read it or watch the screenplay (just look into the eyes of that brilliant actor below). Müller was sentenced to be a villain IRL no fiction character can ever overcome. But the way he was depicted in that old 1973 Russian series - it is just.. wow!.. I doubt you'll ever be interested to read the books they come from or ever watch the movies, especially of old times, even if you find their German versions. Well, if you speak German of course .

The only one who stands along with them in TES is Sheogorath only. My hat is off to his creators. But Mannimarco is just an adult kid who's dreams came true - let him be the king of whatever and leave him in peace. I'll wait for a character developed or portrayed like these two:

1. Woland of the 1937 novel "The Master and Margarita" in a 2005 series of the same name:


2. Heinrich Müller in the 1973 espionage thriller series the "Seventeen Moments of Spring":

bmnoble

Other

Would rather they write new villains not recycle old ones.

gepe87

Other

Meridia. I still think she is evil.

Inhuman003

The King of Worms return in a Chapter

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Mannimarco is depicted as a typical modern characterless villain.. Perhaps if they hired someone like David Cage.. Until then Manny shows nothing outstanding especially in comparison even to some of the Daedric Princes. Sheogorath is the only one of them who deserves respect for the quality of his lore, while the others are plane and straightforward. Though I liked the Star Wars real canon for decades, I thought the same about Darth Vader, Palpatine, etc. They all are just comic book villains who share all the same features.. They are either good or bad, smart or mad, blond or red, A or B, dark or light. Sometimes they want to be the coolest, the most powerful, the most, the most, the most.. Why? Well, they want to save or destroy the world, to dominate, to be the best, etc.. Why?!.. Umph.. And there's no answer. The majority of villains are villains only because they either want to be the ones or are forced by the circumstances. That's all. But in order to create a really interesting villain his author has to create something more than a dumb thug who wants to rule the galaxy because he was forced to do it first and than he started to wish it.

They are no better than those James Bond adversaries.. Ah.. So silly they are.. I haven't seen any of the really interesting villain characters in fiction created in XXI century! Nothing at least equal to Hannibal Lecter, Sheogorath or, say, Keyser Söze. Neither heroes nor villains - none of them! But I was lucky enough to be proficient in several languages for some measure, so I could see some really great fictional villain characters of the past times in the fiction of different cultures. Some of them are really iconic. Well, here are just two of them I noticed in the Russian fiction. They both are based on the old good great German folklore and.. German history.. but they way they are depicted in Russian fiction staggers the imagination. Russian Woland, though based on the Mephistopheles character is a way much more developed character than J.W. Goethe's creation. I can't describe him with words - you have either to read it or watch the screenplay (just look into the eyes of that brilliant actor below). Müller was sentenced to be a villain IRL no fiction character can ever overcome. But the way he was depicted in that old 1973 Russian series - it is just.. wow!.. I doubt you'll ever be interested to read the books they come from or ever watch the movies, especially of old times, even if you find their German versions. Well, if you speak German of course .

The only one who stands along with them in TES is Sheogorath only. My hat is off to his creators. But Mannimarco is just an adult kid who's dreams came true - let him be the king of whatever and leave him in peace. I'll wait for a character developed or portrayed like these two:

1. Woland of the 1937 novel "The Master and Margarita" in a 2005 series of the same name:


2. Heinrich Müller in the 1973 espionage thriller series the "Seventeen Moments of Spring":

Very nice and well said.

Varana

Just No on Mannimarco

One of the most annoying features of many works of popular culture - be it books, video games, movies, etc. - is the inability to let stories come to their end, and let them stay there.
Stories are written towards an end, and we should let them have it. They are better because of it.
Constantly re-hashing old villains (or heroes...) that had their story come to a conclusion, diminishes their role, and the impact of the original story. In ESO's time line, Mannimarco has met the end of his story. He betrayed his companions (and a lot of other people, as far as we know), he tried to betray his new master, and paid for it. There is room for him to return in later (earlier) games, but those stories are only lightly connected to ESO's, and are complete stories of their own.
Find new villains for new stories. The old ones have served their purpose.

Inhuman003

The King of Worms return in a Chapter

Varana wrote: »

One of the most annoying features of many works of popular culture - be it books, video games, movies, etc. - is the inability to let stories come to their end, and let them stay there.
Stories are written towards an end, and we should let them have it. They are better because of it.
Constantly re-hashing old villains (or heroes...) that had their story come to a conclusion, diminishes their role, and the impact of the original story. In ESO's time line, Mannimarco has met the end of his story. He betrayed his companions (and a lot of other people, as far as we know), he tried to betray his new master, and paid for it. There is room for him to return in later (earlier) games, but those stories are only lightly connected to ESO's, and are complete stories of their own.
Find new villains for new stories. The old ones have served their purpose.

Hmmm, you're right about old villains to have served there time and new villains on the rise of conquest. Perhaps the King of Worms sends out minions (New Villains) to do his bidding instead?

Cirantille

He is

Bradyfjord

Other

I wouldn't want him to be at the center of anything, but it would be cool to get some kind of tease out of him because his voice actor is so good.

Like in a dungeon/trial/quest we encounter necromancers listening to him give orders through a communication stone or such.