Suggestion: fire rune

JinMori

Fire rune should provide minor force.

Increase the duration to 18 sec, and change the damage profile so it's more of a dot, right now it does half direct and half dot damage. That's the scalding rune morph.

Mag dd are already using trap, the problem with channeled accel is that it does not do damage, it's good in pvp, but in pve... Meh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQRW0RM4V0k

zvavi

Idk for pve, I like channeled in trials, vCR, and vSS (u r waiting for dragon to land anyway...) vHoF spider boss, any v non dlc dungeon (fights short enough), some vDLC fights, and the list goes on.

JinMori

zvavi wrote: »

Idk for pve, I like channeled in trials, vCR, and vSS (u r waiting for dragon to land anyway...) vHoF spider boss, any v non dlc dungeon (fights short enough), some vDLC fights, and the list goes on.

It would still be a good change, sure channeled is good, but there is no reason not to give minor force to rune.

kylewwefan

It could be the magic version of trap beast. Like it.

JinMori

kylewwefan wrote: »

It could be the magic version of trap beast. Like it.

That was basically the reasoning behind it, in short.

PooPsie337

Ok they said you got the green light, go head and make the changes😬😬🤔

YandereGirlfriend

I would support this.

That said, what I really would like to see is Twilight Remedy giving Minor Force for like 20 seconds/synergy so we (Magicka and Stamina alike) could drop these skills from our bars entirely and slot a better DoT in its place. And it would have the side benefit of making Twilight a worthwhile set again.

zvavi

Reasons to not give minor force to rune:
1. stop homogenizing mag/stam.
2. Rune currently have the option to be semi spammable in builds that have many dots and are dinamic. Removing the instant dmg + adding minor force removes that usage, and some off meta builds that can use it. (HA dk for example).
3. It will over value channeled in any given situation, especially since it covers one of trap's biggest flaws. Trap is melee, rune is ranged.

JinMori

zvavi wrote: »

Reasons to not give minor force to rune:
1. stop homogenizing mag/stam.
2. Rune currently have the option to be semi spammable in builds that have many dots and are dinamic. Removing the instant dmg + adding minor force removes that usage, and some off meta builds that can use it. (HA dk for example).
3. It will over value channeled in any given situation, especially since it covers one of trap's biggest flaws. Trap is melee, rune is ranged.

I don't really care about your homogenization argument, i think you should have realized it at this point.

What i proposed would make for a really good skill that feels good to use, that's all i care about.

Now, if you don't like it, you are free to make a forum post yourself about how to improve the game.

Im fine if they keep the spammable like upfront damage, but it would be even better if they also give it minor force and increase it to 18 sec. There you go, so it's not "homogenized" Now please get out if you wanna start this kind of argument, i had had enough of this from you and idk for a lifetime.

It's just so annoying, everytime someone comes up with an idea to make a skill better, and overall more enjoyable, here comes idk and you talking about muh homogenization, look, i don't care. I want skills that are good, more than i want different skills.

By that logic, burning embers and venomous claw is the same, it's gotta go, same for sub assault and deep fissure.... They all gotta go and make them different, we can continue forever with this stupid argument.

What is better having 2 different garbage skills, or 2 similar skills that are both good? You be the judge.

In short, come up with a better idea, if you are just gonna stand there and say "this shouldn't be done" Because x, just be quiet, people are trying to give good ideas, and you and idk gang always come to be the rain cloud on the parade, which sometimes can be good, and many times, it's just pretentious.

WrathOfInnos

Yes I would love this. I don’t even care if the duration is increased, even 14s of Minor Force would be so much better than having to use a melee skill that does not scale with Magicka stats. And Channeled Acceleration is even worse than Barbed Trap. As someone else pointed out Twilight Remedy is not viable, and Medusa is one of the worst sets in the game (compare it to Tzogvin’s). So until this change happens, somebody please guard me

Hotdog_23

Think this is a great idea but increase the radius to 5 meters as well, 3 is very small.

JinMori

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Think this is a great idea but increase the radius to 5 meters as well, 3 is very small.

Mmm, it would make it too strong. If this is the magicka barbed trap we need to keep it a little consistent. Barbed is a single target ground dot, so unless they also make barbed aoe, i would say 3 meters is fine.

Sordidfairytale

Lets look at the skills as a whole:

1. Both morphs of Rune are ranged. Lightweight trap is ranged.
2. Both morphs of Trap immobilize the target. Volcanic Rune Stuns, Fire Rune does neither.
3. Trap lasts 60 seconds, Rune lasts 30 seconds.
4. Both morphs of trap deal initial damage and damage over time. Fire Rune has a DoT, Volcanic does not.
5. Both morphs of Trap applies Minor Force, Rune does not.
6. Rune deals roughly twice the amount of damage as Trap and they cost 3240 Magicka (108 mag/sec) and 2754 Stamina (46 stam/sec) respectively*


Give Volcanic a DoT. Change Fire Rune to melee range, and reduce the damage and duration a bit. Then limit the minor force to only the melee range versions of both skills, seems like a nice balance.

Vildebill

Agree 100% tired of using trap on my magicka characters.

Kadoin

JinMori wrote: »

Im fine if they keep the spammable like upfront damage, but it would be even better if they also give it minor force and increase it to 18 sec. There you go, so it's not "homogenized" Now please get out if you wanna start this kind of argument, i had had enough of this from you and idk for a lifetime.

It's just so annoying, everytime someone comes up with an idea to make a skill better, and overall more enjoyable, here comes idk and you talking about muh homogenization, look, i don't care. I want skills that are good, more than i want different skills.

To be fair, if they do as you want, the skill will have to be nerfed somewhere. There is no way it will keep the upfront damage and DoT + give minor force. One of the two damages will be removed or severely reduced, or it would take a cost increase.

For me, I rather it be left alone.

Also, @Sordidfairytale you forgot that rune is also an AoE and has a larger area...

JinMori

Kadoin wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Im fine if they keep the spammable like upfront damage, but it would be even better if they also give it minor force and increase it to 18 sec. There you go, so it's not "homogenized" Now please get out if you wanna start this kind of argument, i had had enough of this from you and idk for a lifetime.

It's just so annoying, everytime someone comes up with an idea to make a skill better, and overall more enjoyable, here comes idk and you talking about muh homogenization, look, i don't care. I want skills that are good, more than i want different skills.

To be fair, if they do as you want, the skill will have to be nerfed somewhere. There is no way it will keep the upfront damage and DoT + give minor force. One of the two damages will be removed or severely reduced, or it would take a cost increase.

For me, I rather it be left alone.

Also, @Sordidfairytale you forgot that rune is also an AoE and has a larger area...

Ill take the trade if it does happen, trap already does almost 6 % of the total damage so it's not really behind other dots in terms of total damage. So your statement is already kinda false.

Don't really care if they keep the upfront damage or make it more of a dot, this skill should be increased to 18 seconds and provide minor force, this would also free up space for another skill to slot.

Something needs to be done though, because the fact that magicka dd are running trap over channeled acceleration is not a good sign.

WrathOfInnos

JinMori wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Im fine if they keep the spammable like upfront damage, but it would be even better if they also give it minor force and increase it to 18 sec. There you go, so it's not "homogenized" Now please get out if you wanna start this kind of argument, i had had enough of this from you and idk for a lifetime.

It's just so annoying, everytime someone comes up with an idea to make a skill better, and overall more enjoyable, here comes idk and you talking about muh homogenization, look, i don't care. I want skills that are good, more than i want different skills.

To be fair, if they do as you want, the skill will have to be nerfed somewhere. There is no way it will keep the upfront damage and DoT + give minor force. One of the two damages will be removed or severely reduced, or it would take a cost increase.

For me, I rather it be left alone.

Also, @Sordidfairytale you forgot that rune is also an AoE and has a larger area...

Ill take the trade if it does happen, trap already does almost 6 % of the total damage so it's not really behind other dots in terms of total damage. So your statement is already kinda false.

Don't really care if they keep the upfront damage or make it more of a dot, this skill should be increased to 18 seconds and provide minor force, this would also free up space for another skill to slot.

Something needs to be done though, because the fact that magicka dd are running trap over channeled acceleration is not a good sign.

True, Fighter’s Guild skill line is more important for Mages than Mage’s Guild currently. With Scalding, Entropy and Meteor all underperforming.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I dont hate the idea of giving minor force to rune, but the skill would need to be toned down in other areas or it would be OP.

I agree that I hate slotting trap on a magic character, but for PVE, minor force is a mandatory end game buff, so usually I do. Channeled Acceleration is certainly viable, but a channel that does no damage in a PVE rotation is not ideal IMO.

JinMori

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont hate the idea of giving minor force to rune, but the skill would need to be toned down in other areas or it would be OP.

I agree that I hate slotting trap on a magic character, but for PVE, minor force is a mandatory end game buff, so usually I do. Channeled Acceleration is certainly viable, but a channel that does no damage in a PVE rotation is not ideal IMO.

There are a couple of things they can do, slightly reduce the damage, no aoe, or both traps are aoe.

Personally what i would do is both traps do about the same damage, and both are 3 meters aoes. about 5/6 % of the total dps is fine for a dot that provides minor force.

What i would also do is increase magicka controller to 3 %, give 3 % stam recovery to the weapon damage passive, and also make expert mage 3 % weapon/spell damage, for consistency.

OrphanHelgen

The rune animation is annoying to cast. Channel is good in dungeons for the speed and when bosses last less than 30 sec anyway. If they change the rune animation when cast, sure.

Sordidfairytale

Kadoin wrote: »

Also, @Sordidfairytale you forgot that rune is also an AoE and has a larger area...

You are correct;

Radius of Trap is 2.5 meters
Radius of Rune is 3 meters

WrathOfInnos

JinMori wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont hate the idea of giving minor force to rune, but the skill would need to be toned down in other areas or it would be OP.

I agree that I hate slotting trap on a magic character, but for PVE, minor force is a mandatory end game buff, so usually I do. Channeled Acceleration is certainly viable, but a channel that does no damage in a PVE rotation is not ideal IMO.

There are a couple of things they can do, slightly reduce the damage, no aoe, or both traps are aoe.

Personally what i would do is both traps do about the same damage, and both are 3 meters aoes. about 5/6 % of the total dps is fine for a dot that provides minor force.

What i would also do is increase magicka controller to 3 %, give 3 % stam recovery to the weapon damage passive, and also make expert mage 3 % weapon/spell damage, for consistency.

No AoE would be fine, 99% of the time it only hits one enemy. I would be very hesitant to change the way it’s area is coded though. Sorcerer mines are effectively a zero-radius ground placed trap, and they are extremely buggy when it comes to some bosses. For example, using Daedric Tomb on Sunspire dragons often results in all 3 mines sitting directly under the dragon and none of them exploding or dealing damage. Where skills like Barbed Trap and Scalding Rune will hit if they are placed anywhere within the dragon’s circular aura. I think there is some strange interaction going on where an AoE with zero radius and large bosses with small hitboxes, where you have to aim at very specific point on the ground within the boss for it to hit. This is probably related to the bug where Zaan cannot hit dragons either (seems like a year would be long enough to fix this one, Alkosh was fixed months ago).

Anyway, that was a lot of words to say: if Rune becomes single target make sure it’s coded like Barbed Trap and not like Sorc mines so that it actually works on enemies with terrible hitboxes.

JinMori

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont hate the idea of giving minor force to rune, but the skill would need to be toned down in other areas or it would be OP.

I agree that I hate slotting trap on a magic character, but for PVE, minor force is a mandatory end game buff, so usually I do. Channeled Acceleration is certainly viable, but a channel that does no damage in a PVE rotation is not ideal IMO.

There are a couple of things they can do, slightly reduce the damage, no aoe, or both traps are aoe.

Personally what i would do is both traps do about the same damage, and both are 3 meters aoes. about 5/6 % of the total dps is fine for a dot that provides minor force.

What i would also do is increase magicka controller to 3 %, give 3 % stam recovery to the weapon damage passive, and also make expert mage 3 % weapon/spell damage, for consistency.

No AoE would be fine, 99% of the time it only hits one enemy. I would be very hesitant to change the way it’s area is coded though. Sorcerer mines are effectively a zero-radius ground placed trap, and they are extremely buggy when it comes to some bosses. For example, using Daedric Tomb on Sunspire dragons often results in all 3 mines sitting directly under the dragon and none of them exploding or dealing damage. Where skills like Barbed Trap and Scalding Rune will hit if they are placed anywhere within the dragon’s circular aura. I think there is some strange interaction going on where an AoE with zero radius and large bosses with small hitboxes, where you have to aim at very specific point on the ground within the boss for it to hit. This is probably related to the bug where Zaan cannot hit dragons either (seems like a year would be long enough to fix this one, Alkosh was fixed months ago).

Anyway, that was a lot of words to say: if Rune becomes single target make sure it’s coded like Barbed Trap and not like Sorc mines so that it actually works on enemies with terrible hitboxes.

What i meant was a bit ambiguous to understand as both traps could mean just the fire rune ability or barber trap also, i meant.

If i were to do this, i would either make both trap beast and fire rune 3 m aoe or st. Personally i would go with 3 meters aoe, it's not a big deal anyway, it would help a little bit in small, stacked groups of mobs.

zvavi

What if we instead give rune minor Slayer?

SpLaTTyDaDDy

zvavi wrote: »

What if we instead give rune minor Slayer?

Aren't they already trying to lower the ceiling and raise the floor? All that would do is sink the floor and raise the ceiling higher or would give people no use to use 3 set bonus's on almost all trial gear.

JinMori

zvavi wrote: »

What if we instead give rune minor Slayer?

Mmmmmm.

I don't know man, minor slayer so far has always been a gear buff, and i think that's the general vision of it, i would prefer force.

Also, there is the problem of redundancy, on a much higher degree compared to minor slayer. The idea itself is not too bad, but the problem is that you basically always want the sets with minor slayer, because they are just better, and giving slayer to rune would mean this ability is not very useful in pvp.

Red_Feather

Make it so that if you stand in your fire rune for 3 seconds you get minor force. But it can't do both the DoT and minor force! It now has 2 uses!

JinMori

Red_Feather wrote: »

Make it so that if you stand in your fire rune for 3 seconds you get minor force. But it can't do both the DoT and minor force! It now has 2 uses!

100 % disagree, this would basically kill this skill and make it worse than it it at the moment.

Also with barbed trap existing there is not reason not to have force and a dot.

Also, 2 charges for what? This is not wow, skills do not have cooldowns.

And also, what if you have to move? 3 seconds is quite a bit of time, this is not gonna work.

Red_Feather

JinMori wrote: »

Also, 2 charges for what? This is not wow, skills do not have cooldowns.

2 uses. You can use it ground and enemy stands on it for damage over time. You can use it on ground and stand in it for minor force. I don't understand what charges means or cooldowns from wow. I have no idea what that is coming from. But if you say that my suggestion kills the skill and makes it worse than it is now I'll trust your expertise. It was just a suggestion to make the skill less mindless.

Beardimus

Should always have been the Magika version of trap beast. It was bonkers when we all ran that.

Also it's a hugely underutilised skill so needs some love

JinMori

Red_Feather wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Also, 2 charges for what? This is not wow, skills do not have cooldowns.

2 uses. You can use it ground and enemy stands on it for damage over time. You can use it on ground and stand in it for minor force. I don't understand what charges means or cooldowns from wow. I have no idea what that is coming from. But if you say that my suggestion kills the skill and makes it worse than it is now I'll trust your expertise. It was just a suggestion to make the skill less mindless.

Oh, by 2 uses you meant like 2 actual uses, like it can be either a dot or provide minor force, but there are still too many problems with this.

I thought that by 2 uses you meant like, the skill resets and gives you a second charge, wile only using 1 global cooldown.

There would be no point using this over channeled acceleration for minor force, so the change would be useless.

The point of this suggestion is so we have something comparable to trap beast for magicka, while channeled can be used for both stam and mag in some cases, and especially in pvp.

The problem with the suggestion is that it's too convoluted and not really worth running for the minor force.

It wouldn't make it worse, but it would not make it better.