Please adjust certain sets for pvp

Jman100582

Some sets perform way to well in pvp, whether it is due to them having no counterplay or simply giving the wearer extreme tankiness

For example:
Meridias Blessed Armor
2-1487 armor
3-129 stamina recovery
4-1487 armor
5- When you Block an attack, you have a 33% chance to blind your attacker, causing them to miss all of their attacks for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds

In case nobody here has fought somebody wearing blessed, it's way to powerful for pvp. There was a reason the dodge chance off shuffle was removed, and this set literally does the same thing every couple seconds. Even dps who can permablock, such as magdks, can utilize this set. Theres no counterplay to it either, as its very likely you will get blinded every 5 secs. At least with dodge-era shuffle there was a percentage based chance you could dodge something so you couldnt bank on it too proc and save your hairline. The only counter to this set is a purify, but even then after you purify the set will immediately blind you again anyway as the cooldown is only 5 secs.

ALTERNATIVE 5 PIECE:While you are blocking you have a 15% chance to dodge any single target direct damage ability. This can occur every 3 seconds.

This change would make it more of a sustain set for block tanks instead of a set that simply negating all damage a single attacker does for 5 secs. It would also still be viable for pve content, as the set wouldnt allow the wearer to simply avoid 1-shot aoe mechanincs

Spectral Cloak
2- Blade Cloak grants you Major Protection for 3 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30%
2-(with perfected) 129 stamina recovery

Almost anybody that pvps can agree that this set is busted. Spammable major protection on top of a skill that already gives major evasion is absurd. No skill should give 2 major buffs that coincide with each other. There was a reason that pirate skeleton was nerfed and thats because it gave almost 100% uptime on major protection. This set does the same thing.

ALTERNATIVE: Blade Cloak reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds.

This change still has the same functionality as the original 2 piece, but it has less uptime and 1/3 of the mitigation. I believe that it's pretty fair, as the set can still be viable and useful but not to the point where it is ovepowered and carries players.

I know theres a couple sets that this post is missing such as zaans or troll king, but these 2 in particular really catch my eyes as sets that say "please don't kill me." I'd like to hear your guys imputs on how these sets and others should be balanced

Greek_Hellspawn

Nerfing both mitigation and uptime for spectral cloak would make it useless. While i agree it is op right now nerfing both would just throw the set in the trash. I think 10% mitigation and 5 seconds uptime would be the best solution.

WrathOfInnos

When you say adjust these sets for PVP do you mean through battle spirit? Or are you proposing destroying them for PVE too?

Also that suggestion for BRP DW would make it useless. If it were to be reduced to 10% mitigation then the duration would need to be increased to match the full 10s of Blade Cloak. I don’t really like this idea though, since it would just feel like a weaker version of Wizards Riposte. The short-duration, high-mitigation buff is what makes BRP DW interesting and unique.

MellowMagic

I think you sacrifice to much stats for the blessed meridia set. Sure it's great to cheese a 1 v 1 duel but anything besides that it seems not worth it to me.

Jman100582

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When you say adjust these sets for PVP do you mean through battle spirit? Or are you proposing destroying them for PVE too?

Actually never thought about this tbh. But the thing about brp dw is that it really is wayyy strong. Mitigation stacking in pvp is really strong. For example major evasion is 25% to aoe's. Thats pretty absurd when you have a set that can stack that already extremely high 25% with an additionally high 30%. Thats 55% mitigation to aoe's. Think about what happens to templars and wardens. Brp dw hard counters any aoe setup.

You can adjust the set through a couple ways. 1) nerf the mitigation from the set itself 2) nerf major protection 3) nerf major protection. Out of all these options i believe that nerfing the set is fair to more playstyles instead of nerfing 2 major buffs.

A gold defending 2 handed weapon gives roughly 4%-5% mitigation. so 10% mitigation is roughly Between 5.5k-6.5k resistances. Thats a whole other major ward/resolve buff. So tripling this is about 16k-19.5k resistances. Thats more then pariah and pariah actually has an actual proc condition, that being that you need to lose health in order to gain resistances. Brp gives you sooo much for literally just 2.7k stam. Sounds like it needs a hard nerf to me, and justifiably so.

xWarbrain

I hate seeing suggestions for nerfs to anything. I've defended BRP dw in the past....

But I'd be wrong to continue saying "leave it alone". I've argued before that you need to sacrifice the 5th set bonus on backbar, that it eventually drains their stam, that you can just CC them blah blah blah.

It's way too strong. I'm done with chasing mediocre players around that are spamming major protection and major evasion while running in circles and bunny hopping like they're proud of themselves for not engaging in actual combat. You aren't good, you just have 100% uptime on major protection on the 1 in 4 abilities that you don't already automatically dodge by doing literally nothing. It makes stam players borderline invincible vs. 4 people. It's actually absurd.

Just shave it down to 2 seconds like Deaden Pain.

Royaji

Adjusting something specifically for PvP and slight iterarional balancing is not how ZOS works, chief.

You are just asking for those sets to be hammered into nothingness by 78% nerfs. Don't be that guy.

daemonor

Lol there's still people defending brp dw. Can u name any other unique-effect weapon that comes even remotely close to it? The only thing that even came closer than thousand miles away was master dw before nerf with the insane bleed damage boost. Can u get anything useful out of vma? Maybe the resto mag regen. From VDSA? the 350 weapon damage is nice from bow but nothing game changing. Asylum? 2h ulti gen is nice but who can fit that into a build now. From BRP? Yeah the dual wield that gives major protection!

Kadoin

ZOS will never nerf BRP , I've complained about that set being OP since day 1 it was introduced. It's part of why PvP is garbage now - they refuse to nerf all the OP things they introduce to the game + ignore initial input.

Does anyone even take PvP seriously anymore?

Ranger209

Jman100582 wrote: »

Some sets perform way to well in pvp, whether it is due to them having no counterplay or simply giving the wearer extreme tankiness

For example:
Meridias Blessed Armor
2-1487 armor
3-129 stamina recovery
4-1487 armor
5- When you Block an attack, you have a 33% chance to blind your attacker, causing them to miss all of their attacks for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds

In case nobody here has fought somebody wearing blessed, it's way to powerful for pvp. There was a reason the dodge chance off shuffle was removed, and this set literally does the same thing every couple seconds. Even dps who can permablock, such as magdks, can utilize this set. Theres no counterplay to it either, as its very likely you will get blinded every 5 secs. At least with dodge-era shuffle there was a percentage based chance you could dodge something so you couldnt bank on it too proc and save your hairline. The only counter to this set is a purify, but even then after you purify the set will immediately blind you again anyway as the cooldown is only 5 secs.

ALTERNATIVE 5 PIECE:While you are blocking you have a 15% chance to dodge any single target direct damage ability. This can occur every 3 seconds.

This change would make it more of a sustain set for block tanks instead of a set that simply negating all damage a single attacker does for 5 secs. It would also still be viable for pve content, as the set wouldnt allow the wearer to simply avoid 1-shot aoe mechanincs

Spectral Cloak
2- Blade Cloak grants you Major Protection for 3 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30%
2-(with perfected) 129 stamina recovery

Almost anybody that pvps can agree that this set is busted. Spammable major protection on top of a skill that already gives major evasion is absurd. No skill should give 2 major buffs that coincide with each other. There was a reason that pirate skeleton was nerfed and thats because it gave almost 100% uptime on major protection. This set does the same thing.

ALTERNATIVE: Blade Cloak reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds.

This change still has the same functionality as the original 2 piece, but it has less uptime and 1/3 of the mitigation. I believe that it's pretty fair, as the set can still be viable and useful but not to the point where it is ovepowered and carries players.

I know theres a couple sets that this post is missing such as zaans or troll king, but these 2 in particular really catch my eyes as sets that say "please don't kill me." I'd like to hear your guys imputs on how these sets and others should be balanced

Except now it would stack with other sources of Major Protection. I see where you're going, but I'm not sure that would be an improvement.

Alucardo

I've only encountered one person wearing blessed, and yes it was frustrating. Having said that, they had the damage and healing of a wet noodle so all it did was extend their life expectancy by a few seconds.

NeillMcAttack

Maybe just stop crutching on CP, and asking for the game to balanced around CP. CP is a much greater contributor to horrendous PvP experiences than any one or pair of sets anywhere in the game.

Kidgangster101

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Maybe just stop crutching on CP, and asking for the game to balanced around CP. CP is a much greater contributor to horrendous PvP experiences than any one or pair of sets anywhere in the game.

Yes cp is a problem. It boost your stats, makes you not worry too much about recovery, makes you tanky, allows people to dodge roll a lot, it allows for the ability to perma block very easy.

Things you guys complain about isn't that bad in no cp PVP. I know you did a lot of work for cp but they would have to rework the entire system and remove a lot. Just think if befoul people just put 1 point into it so it can proc..... Crazy more healing, crazy high crit damage.

If someone is tanky in no cp usually they give up a lot to be tanky. There are some players that are very tanky that do know how to burst someone down but those are the elite players in no cp that if they had cp become those impossible to kill players that take a zerg to fight.

Final thing is non cp doesn't have to calculate all the cp so it creates less stress on s server (not that it is perfect) but at least in non cp my moves fire off unless I dodge roll (which I think is a new glitch because it does it even in pve content I tried for science).

fred4

Jman100582 wrote: »

Some sets perform way to well in pvp, whether it is due to them having no counterplay or simply giving the wearer extreme tankiness

For example:
Meridias Blessed Armor
2-1487 armor
3-129 stamina recovery
4-1487 armor
5- When you Block an attack, you have a 33% chance to blind your attacker, causing them to miss all of their attacks for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds

In case nobody here has fought somebody wearing blessed, it's way to powerful for pvp. There was a reason the dodge chance off shuffle was removed, and this set literally does the same thing every couple seconds. Even dps who can permablock, such as magdks, can utilize this set. Theres no counterplay to it either, as its very likely you will get blinded every 5 secs. At least with dodge-era shuffle there was a percentage based chance you could dodge something so you couldnt bank on it too proc and save your hairline. The only counter to this set is a purify, but even then after you purify the set will immediately blind you again anyway as the cooldown is only 5 secs.

ALTERNATIVE 5 PIECE:While you are blocking you have a 15% chance to dodge any single target direct damage ability. This can occur every 3 seconds.

This change would make it more of a sustain set for block tanks instead of a set that simply negating all damage a single attacker does for 5 secs. It would also still be viable for pve content, as the set wouldnt allow the wearer to simply avoid 1-shot aoe mechanincs

Spectral Cloak
2- Blade Cloak grants you Major Protection for 3 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30%
2-(with perfected) 129 stamina recovery

Almost anybody that pvps can agree that this set is busted. Spammable major protection on top of a skill that already gives major evasion is absurd. No skill should give 2 major buffs that coincide with each other. There was a reason that pirate skeleton was nerfed and thats because it gave almost 100% uptime on major protection. This set does the same thing.

ALTERNATIVE: Blade Cloak reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds.

This change still has the same functionality as the original 2 piece, but it has less uptime and 1/3 of the mitigation. I believe that it's pretty fair, as the set can still be viable and useful but not to the point where it is ovepowered and carries players.

I know theres a couple sets that this post is missing such as zaans or troll king, but these 2 in particular really catch my eyes as sets that say "please don't kill me." I'd like to hear your guys imputs on how these sets and others should be balanced

Have you actually run these sets? No one and I mean no one outside of the occasional beginner or novelty act runs Meridia's Blessed Armor. It only blinds one attacker at a time. At best it's a stalemate set for duels. In open world and BGs it's pretty useless and in duels you need more damage (/ healing), not this.

As to Spectral Cloak, yeah it's strong, but 3 seconds is short and that skill is not cheap. It requires judicious application, much like blocking. I've tried. How many people do you know running this long term? It's an awkward fit for a front bar as well as dual-wield not being first choice for a PvP front bar anymore. 2H is. For the back bar then? 1H+Shield honestly outperforms it. I'd say some people make it work. It's probably just right. These monster sets should, IMO, have something going for them, otherwise it would be another one that just languishes.

WoppaBoem

Blessed is not used a lot and really a fun tank set. I it powerfull only for that tank no buffs to group and the debuff is single target.

For BRP DW you forgot its 3 major buffs as you get major expedition. Its powerfull I use this on all classes that have no build in speed buff because why not. I do still prefer S&B much nicer to play and in terms of mitigation very very powerfull.

Instead of nerf of this I would much more prefer options in terms of access to speed. Possible RAT Stamina morph or someting.

kylewwefan

*jots down Meridias Blessed Armor


Oh hey guys, have you ever heard of the blessed armor thing. I heard it was pretty good for PvP but I don’t know how to use it real good. Got any advice?

fred4

WoppaBoem wrote: »

For BRP DW you forgot its 3 major buffs as you get major expedition. Its powerfull I use this on all classes that have no build in speed buff because why not.

Instead of nerf of this I would much more prefer options in terms of access to speed. Possible RAT Stamina morph or someting.

I do not find the Major Expedition from Quick Cloak very good at all, because it costs stamina and doesn't last. You might as well just sprint. If you do both, you run down your stamina quickly. RAT is much better in that regard, because it costs magicka. I much prefer it as a speed skill, regardless of whether I'm on a stamina or magicka build. That's another thing that killed BRP dual-wield for me personally. RAT + 1H+Shield back bar just plays better.

WoppaBoem

fred4 wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

For BRP DW you forgot its 3 major buffs as you get major expedition. Its powerfull I use this on all classes that have no build in speed buff because why not.

Instead of nerf of this I would much more prefer options in terms of access to speed. Possible RAT Stamina morph or someting.

I do not find the Major Expedition from Quick Cloak very good at all, because it costs stamina and doesn't last. You might as well just sprint. If you do both, you run down your stamina quickly. RAT is much better in that regard, because it costs magicka. I much prefer it as a speed skill, regardless of whether I'm on a stamina or magicka build. That's another thing that killed BRP dual-wield for me personally. RAT + 1H+Shield back bar just plays better.

Makes sense for me yes true, can do that on my necro but RAT versus major evasion? I will give it a try cheers.

fred4

Let me elaborate on why Spectral Cloak isn't great on the front bar:

(1) It's a damage loss by having a defensive set on the front bar. Typically you should have something like New Moon on that bar, with your defensive set, such as Potentates, on the back bar.

(2) It forces you into a dual-wield build, which is just not that good right now.

(3) In terms of buff rotation, I'd rather have the Major Evasion on the back bar. I find Quick Cloak on the front bar results in more bar swaps, thus more things to go wrong in lag.

(4) While the Protection and speed on the front bar is great, the skill lacks snare immunity. So what are your options?

(4a) Run Forward Momentum. This makes you a DW / 2H build, which I find actually plays nicely, but isn't strong defensively. You give up Rally. So Spectral Cloak giveth Major Protection, but taketh away your burst heal. Not great.

(4b) Run Shuffle. Now you got two expensive overlapping skills and you're wearing medium armor. I tried this for a while. You're not as tanky as in heavy / 1H+Shield and you use up quite a lot of stamina and GCDs casting the Major Protection. Not great.

(4c) Run RAT. You just can't beat it. Out of all the effect combinations, I like Speed + Snare removal the best, plus the fact that this skill costs magicka. You're now free to run Rally, but again that would make you DW / 2H, where 2H / 1H+Shield is IMO just better. It saves you a skill slot on your front bar and bar swap + block is quicker and more efficient than Spectral Cloak.