Which sets should be banned from PvP?

GRXRG

First of all this is not a rant set.

Second, I refer mainly to no-CP and battlegrounds.

Just had a game in which 3 people on THE SAME team were running Thurvokun, and I just realized how *insert bad word here* is that set.

I know banning sets from PvP might kill build diversity, but those particular sets are just impossible to fight against, especially in gamemodes with objectives.

I wanna add even all proc sets to the list, caluurion, zaan and company which provide free damage for doing literally nothing.

I would love to see a Battle Spirit set banning especially for battlegrounds.

What do you guys think?

Iskiab

Any set is giving up something else in opportunity cost. There is no free damage.

Vermintide

All of them.

Naked only. That's balance.

justaquickword

Any class/skill or armour set is OP if you are good enough at the game.

The rest of us mere mortals just have to suck it up and keep practicing.

Also. Blessed Armour FTW!

👌

idk

No set should be banned from PvP and Zos will not even consider it. If they will not create morphs or balance skills for PvP different than PvE they sure are not going to permit the use of some sets in one area and ban it in another. Given OP is even talking about banning some sets from specific areas of PvP but not all PvP it makes an even bigger mess.

gabriebe

Don't think anyone would cry if Earthgore was removed, even in its current nerfed form

NyassaV

Vermintide wrote: »

All of them.

Naked only. That's balance.

Nah man. Everyone can wear shackle breaker and that's it. People need that max stam if you are a magic build.

GRXRG

Iskiab wrote: »

Any set is giving up something else in opportunity cost. There is no free damage.

Hope you go against a team of a stamcro, stamden, magden and magsorc. 3 of them with Thurvokun. I dunno what they did give up because i was getting hit by 7k sub assaults and blastbones.
And i restricted my idea to no-cp, in the specific to bgs. Those sets are impossible to fight against even with 3 templar cleanses.
And every single match i see it always more prevelent, those cheesy sets carrying fights and people.

brandonv516

So remove proc sets from PvP. How original!

Yeah you are a few years late with this suggestion and it can go the same place it went the first time it was suggested: Nowhere.

Gilvoth

none.
no set should be banned from PvP.

Waffennacht

What, did they buff that set while I've been away?

DreadDaedroth

I'd ban the sets GRxRG is wearing

Dr_Ganknstein

Whatever set op uses.

Beardimus

Proc sets used to be crazy OP and have no place but they have balanced that. I don't think many are wild OP now..

Snipe is a broken skill but that's about it

Alucardo

Fury, New Moon and vBRP DW. I realise that covers 90% of pvp builds. Sorry guys.

(I don't actually want anything banned. Just being controversial)

GRXRG

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

I'd ban the sets GRxRG is wearing

hihihihihi you so funny, go else where with your comedy.

MartiniDaniels

Alucardo wrote: »

Fury, New Moon and vBRP DW. I realise that covers 90% of pvp builds. Sorry guys.

(I don't actually want anything banned. Just being controversial)

You forgot Bloodspawn and Nord

universal_wrath

Iskiab wrote: »

Any set is giving up something else in opportunity cost. There is no free damage.

You don't give up anything if you are stamcro

Reverb

None of them.

universal_wrath

GRXRG wrote: »

First of all this is not a rant set.

Second, I refer mainly to no-CP and battlegrounds.

Just had a game in which 3 people on THE SAME team were running Thurvokun, and I just realized how *insert bad word here* is that set.

I know banning sets from PvP might kill build diversity, but those particular sets are just impossible to fight against, especially in gamemodes with objectives.

I wanna add even all proc sets to the list, caluurion, zaan and company which provide free damage for doing literally nothing.

I would love to see a Battle Spirit set banning especially for battlegrounds.

What do you guys think?

No sets should be banned from PvP, ut I think there should be no more than 2 players of same class in BG. I have been in matches where there full magsorc teams killing and streaking everyone, wardens and templars healing non stop to point you wander if you are actual doing dmg or not. Full stamcro wearing thurvocan set perma heal negates..etc point is, some class are already strong like necros and magsorcs, making more in 1 teams is literaly unplayble, most people in opposing teams just quite and leaving, I mean, what can you do against 2+ endless fury just waitng for you to reach excute range and crystal frag spam or deaths cap from 4 blastbones and zero healing because major and minor defile, if you every get the chance to heal.

Chelo

GRXRG wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Any set is giving up something else in opportunity cost. There is no free damage.

Hope you go against a team of a stamcro, stamden, magden and magsorc. 3 of them with Thurvokun. I dunno what they did give up because i was getting hit by 7k sub assaults and blastbones.
And i restricted my idea to no-cp, in the specific to bgs. Those sets are impossible to fight against even with 3 templar cleanses.
And every single match i see it always more prevelent, those cheesy sets carrying fights and people.

It's not the sets alone, it's the clases/builds... It's like having 4 wardens running around with permafrost at the same time. In a 1v1 situation is manageable but 4 of them in a close area like BGs, it's impossible.

Same when you have 4 Sorcs all spamming streak and endless fury (they will get all the kills). Or when you get hit by 3 o 4 Dawnbreakers at the same time. And there are other examples.

There are skills, sets, builds, ultimates, etc, that are manageable in 1v1 but when you pile them all together Zerg Style (everyone spamming AoE or the same skill/ultimate over and over) it become impossible to deal with...

Most of the people who play this Zerg Style in BGs are not able to win in 1v1 situations...

So it's not only the sets, it's a combination of stuff pile them all together at the same time.

This is why NBs are the most useless class for group PvP, because they are the most lacking of AoE to play Zerg Style.

For example you see a group of people fighting in the middle and you just drop your Dawnbreaker brainlessly hoping to kill someone, but then we have 4 guys thinking exactly the same thing, so the situation end with 4 Dawnbreakers been dropped at the same time.

Then we will have someone on the forums complaining about Dawnbreaker saying that it's op. The skill alone it's not op, what it's op, it's getting hit by 4 of them at the same time...

InaMoonlight

None.

You have the options too, it's not ok to rag on other for making the most of what they're playing. Either prep for it or play it. Strengths and drawbacks. Difference between them are when you know how to make the latter into the first. /NOMETA

zyk

Almost all of them. Restrict PVP to basic sets like Julianos and Hundings. Set cheese is a problem in this game.

My favorite period for PVP was 2.1 (IC). A big reason was that the level cap was raised from V14 to V16 but most older sets had not been updated to V16. If I recall correctly, the only V16 sets available were the new IC sets, crafted sets, and the initial monster helms. So there was a better balance between builds and individual skill. 2.1 and 2.2 were, combined, the least cheesy ESO PVP has ever been.*

* except for 1000 CP methuselah when most players were under 300 CP in 2.1!

Thogard

Blessed meridia is the one set that isn’t only OP - it’s broken.

There are some stupidly powerful defensive sets like thurvokin and chokethorn..

But it’s meridia that has to go more than anything else.

Cathexis

Group buff sets are the only sets that need to go.

Getting major protection for your entire raid because 1 player sticks their thumb up their butt or wtf ever ruins PvP.

Take for example mighty glacier, wearing that set gives 11 people an extra skill slot or monster helm set. That's a massive advantage, especially when you consider the already massive power creep that has taken over. These kinds of set brutally break pvp by discouraging any players who don't use them or who aren't affected by them from participating.

Just thinking about it from a practical perspective, let's say you get into a fight with just one player and they get a whole extra skill (13 instead of 12). Just mathematically if both players have the same effort level, the player with only 12 should lose.

Urzigurumash

Cathexis wrote: »

Group buff sets are the only sets that need to go.

Getting major protection for your entire raid because 1 player sticks their thumb up their butt or wtf ever ruins PvP.

Take for example mighty glacier, wearing that set gives 11 people an extra skill slot or monster helm set. That's a massive advantage, especially when you consider the already massive power creep that has taken over. These kinds of set brutally break pvp by discouraging any players who don't use them or who aren't affected by them from participating.

Just thinking about it from a practical perspective, let's say you get into a fight with just one player and they get a whole extra skill (13 instead of 12). Just mathematically if both players have the same effort level, the player with only 12 should lose.

To me this reads like another example of why anti-personnel siege should be buffed. Relying on group buffs maximizes efficiency when things are going well, but is a severe liability when things aren't going well.

Iskiab

Cathexis wrote: »

Group buff sets are the only sets that need to go.

Getting major protection for your entire raid because 1 player sticks their thumb up their butt or wtf ever ruins PvP.

Take for example mighty glacier, wearing that set gives 11 people an extra skill slot or monster helm set. That's a massive advantage, especially when you consider the already massive power creep that has taken over. These kinds of set brutally break pvp by discouraging any players who don't use them or who aren't affected by them from participating.

Just thinking about it from a practical perspective, let's say you get into a fight with just one player and they get a whole extra skill (13 instead of 12). Just mathematically if both players have the same effort level, the player with only 12 should lose.

Why wear that set when wardens have an ability to give people major resolve. It sounds like you want to get rid of all buffs: why not just play a shooter?

Joinovikova

Zaan.... or rework to give also non streak mele build some chance to counterplay this ability..

Cathexis

Iskiab wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Group buff sets are the only sets that need to go.

Getting major protection for your entire raid because 1 player sticks their thumb up their butt or wtf ever ruins PvP.

Take for example mighty glacier, wearing that set gives 11 people an extra skill slot or monster helm set. That's a massive advantage, especially when you consider the already massive power creep that has taken over. These kinds of set brutally break pvp by discouraging any players who don't use them or who aren't affected by them from participating.

Just thinking about it from a practical perspective, let's say you get into a fight with just one player and they get a whole extra skill (13 instead of 12). Just mathematically if both players have the same effort level, the player with only 12 should lose.

Why wear that set when wardens have an ability to give people major resolve. It sounds like you want to get rid of all buffs: why not just play a shooter?

No I don't want to get rid of all buffs nor do I think skill based group buffs are bad, they are fine. But wearing a set that gives every player a free 2 piece Mighty Chudan bonus is rediculous. If it comes from a skill, that's different, because it's an active ability, it consumes resources, and you are sacrificing a slot for it (but even then, some are still way too strong).

I think there are general problems with the way group buffs are balanced. I don't think that group buffs are inherently bad but every stacked one, especially one that gives a massive bonus or a major, or even minor buff sometimes, players who aren't in a group formation are immediately put at calculated disadvantage, and that deters any desire to play in cyro.

It's not that I don't think they should exist, but the balance of skills and stats relative to the number of group buffs gets overextended and I think that's bad for the mechanics, especially as it relates to base stats like direct defensive stats, and to a lesser extent offensive ones (things like run speed or healing or purging less or small bonuses I don't think are serious issues, although healing does have a disproportionate impact). But I also don't think people should be able to walk around in a zerg with impunity and have 0 risk.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Group buff sets are the only sets that need to go.

Getting major protection for your entire raid because 1 player sticks their thumb up their butt or wtf ever ruins PvP.

Take for example mighty glacier, wearing that set gives 11 people an extra skill slot or monster helm set. That's a massive advantage, especially when you consider the already massive power creep that has taken over. These kinds of set brutally break pvp by discouraging any players who don't use them or who aren't affected by them from participating.

Just thinking about it from a practical perspective, let's say you get into a fight with just one player and they get a whole extra skill (13 instead of 12). Just mathematically if both players have the same effort level, the player with only 12 should lose.

To me this reads like another example of why anti-personnel siege should be buffed. Relying on group buffs maximizes efficiency when things are going well, but is a severe liability when things aren't going well.

I'm with you, believe it or not. Buff siege! Risk of death to seige makes combat dynamic. In a certain sense you are right in that as soon as formation is broken you get a downhill slide as group buffs drop off, but I think that no amount of benefit of resource efficiency is worth making combat completely dull over.


...

Like if I'm grouped, and someone is using mighty glacier, I no longer have to slot and use hurricane. That creates a massive advantage in my skill distribution, because I no longer have to expend any resources or effort keeping its major bonuses up, and I get it permanently as long as the other person spams roots (or whatever glacier triggers on I can't remember).

It creates an even bigger advantage when 11 players get the same bonus. You can see that's extremely disproportionate. I'm not saying buffs are bad I'm saying their proportional impact needs to relate better to combat, otherwise it's just no one can die. If you are asking what sets they should take of PvP, my personal feelings are these ones.

JanTanhide

None. It's a game with a lot of opportunities for interesting builds.

Xologamer

GRXRG wrote: »

I wanna add even all proc sets to the list, caluurion, zaan and company which provide free damage for doing literally nothing.

simpel awnser NO.

GRXRG wrote: »

Just had a game in which 3 people on THE SAME team were running Thurvokun, and I just realized how *insert bad word here* is that set.

thorvukun is a strong set but u need compare - u could also use like trollking or bloodspawn which would give u very defense stats or something like zaan which is like dmg of doom but no some players choose thorvukon and sacrfice this things for ,,just" 15% less dmg(and this debuff is applied by other things to) and 15%heal reduce so i think thorvukun is pretty balanced