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Icereach first boss on normal has too much hp.

MaxJrFTW
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Been queuing this dungeon as a tank to farm titanborn and the first boss has 5.6m hp. The problem is you often get dps below 160cp and even below level 50, and this boss takes 5-10 mins to kill, that's not an exaggeration. And it's not only the 1st boss, but the 3rd and 4th boss are also pretty beefy.

All this does is lead people to queue as fake tanks. That's definitely where i'm headed.
Edited by MaxJrFTW on April 8, 2020 11:53PM
"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • zvavi
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    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?
    Edited by zvavi on April 9, 2020 12:07AM
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  • MaxJrFTW
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    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    This is not about difficulty, you totally misunderstood the point of the thread.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on April 9, 2020 12:14AM
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
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  • zvavi
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.
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  • MaxJrFTW
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    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
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  • zvavi
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.

    As long as the boss is not hitting anyone else, what is exactly the problem?

    Tanks main jobs are
    1. Stay alive
    2. Taunt priorities.
    The "fake tanking" you are willing to do is in fact, not fake tanking at all, because you are hitting the base requirements for tanks.

    The real problematic fake tanks in queue, are those who don't even intend to do those 2 base things. Unsurprisingly, it is usually really bad dds as well.
    Edited by zvavi on April 9, 2020 12:24AM
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  • SickleCider
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    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.

    As long as the boss is not hitting anyone else, what is exactly the problem?

    Tanks main jobs are
    1. Stay alive
    2. Taunt priorities.
    The "fake tanking" you are willing to do is in fact, not fake tanking at all, because you are hitting the base requirements for tanks.

    The real problematic fake tanks in queue, are those who don't even intend to do those 2 base things. Unsurprisingly, it is usually really bad dds as well.

    The best tank I ever met in a dungeon was a sorc with an ice staff. They consistently held aggro, were a pro at dodging, and managed to bash interrupt attacks and remove pins from other players. They were amazing.

    I wouldn't queue as a tank myself (I'm a DPS), but I routinely end up tanking overland dragons using similar strategies. I think it's just fine.
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  • Everest_Lionheart
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    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.

    As long as the boss is not hitting anyone else, what is exactly the problem?

    Tanks main jobs are
    1. Stay alive
    2. Taunt priorities.
    The "fake tanking" you are willing to do is in fact, not fake tanking at all, because you are hitting the base requirements for tanks.

    The real problematic fake tanks in queue, are those who don't even intend to do those 2 base things. Unsurprisingly, it is usually really bad dds as well.

    The best tank I ever met in a dungeon was a sorc with an ice staff. They consistently held aggro, were a pro at dodging, and managed to bash interrupt attacks and remove pins from other players. They were amazing.

    I wouldn't queue as a tank myself (I'm a DPS), but I routinely end up tanking overland dragons using similar strategies. I think it's just fine.

    So it’s you saving my ass on dragon battles while I semi turtle out of range with my bow! You sir are the real hero!
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  • SickleCider
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    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.

    As long as the boss is not hitting anyone else, what is exactly the problem?

    Tanks main jobs are
    1. Stay alive
    2. Taunt priorities.
    The "fake tanking" you are willing to do is in fact, not fake tanking at all, because you are hitting the base requirements for tanks.

    The real problematic fake tanks in queue, are those who don't even intend to do those 2 base things. Unsurprisingly, it is usually really bad dds as well.

    The best tank I ever met in a dungeon was a sorc with an ice staff. They consistently held aggro, were a pro at dodging, and managed to bash interrupt attacks and remove pins from other players. They were amazing.

    I wouldn't queue as a tank myself (I'm a DPS), but I routinely end up tanking overland dragons using similar strategies. I think it's just fine.

    So it’s you saving my ass on dragon battles while I semi turtle out of range with my bow! You sir are the real hero!

    :D I don't know, maybe! Are you on PS4? I'm a ma'am, but my toon is male.
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  • Taleof2Cities
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    There's your problem right there, @MaxJrFTW.

    You're queuing random pugs for normal Icereach with an expectation in mind.

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  • Alienoutlaw
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    on vet it has 11.6mil, the boss its self goes down quite fast the thing that takes the time is the mechanics, ZOS aint gonna change it just so you can farm faster.
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  • Runefang
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    If only light attacks did more damage, then the useless DDs would be stronger.
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  • YandereGirlfriend
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    You're queuing random pugs for normal Icereach with an expectation in mind.

    This mentality is lamentable (EDIT: to be less confrontational).

    It's like one person saying "The San Francisco subway is gross and dirty" (pro tip: it is) and then another person saying "Well it's only public transportation, of course it is."

    When in reality, the quality level is a choice driven by divergent priorities. You can choose to have a nasty subway (SF) or you can choose to have a beautiful subway (Seoul), depending upon how many resources you give it and what level of shared civic responsibility goes along with using it.

    Returning to the dungeon queue, we could have a much nicer experience (e.g. Seoul subway) if we gave the format more resources (better matching algorithm, better level-gating for accessing harder dungeons) and took our civic duty (vote-kick and report the fake roles) more seriously.

    We can have nice things, but this defeatist attitude ensures that we never will and, even worse, it reifies the very conditions that give us the bad experience in the first place by seeking to justify it.
    Edited by YandereGirlfriend on April 9, 2020 4:07AM
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  • John_Falstaff
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    We can have nice things, but this defeatist attitude ensures that we never will and, even worse, it reifies the very conditions that give us the bad experience in the first place by seeking to justify it.

    We can and do have nice things. People just ignore the fact that ESO has another, more advanced group finder, with more consistent groups, better DDs, more skilled and readily available tanks, even the option to run with the same group again if you want.

    It's called PvE guild. Regular group finder is just your first step on the way to the actual social gaming. Which is, well, ESO is about.
    Edited by John_Falstaff on April 9, 2020 4:19AM
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  • worrallj
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Been queuing this dungeon as a tank to farm titanborn and the first boss has 5.6m hp. The problem is you often get dps below 160cp and even below level 50, and this boss takes 5-10 mins to kill, that's not an exaggeration. And it's not only the 1st boss, but the 3rd and 4th boss are also pretty beefy.

    All this does is lead people to queue as fake tanks. That's definitely where i'm headed.

    This can be an issue in any dungeon not just icereach. I agree just que as fake tank and carry the group, or use a guild premade.

    I know it's annoying for people who want a real dungeon experience and they get an impatient yahoo blowing through it. But when your trying to get through pledges on multiple toons and you do 30% of group dps as a REAL tank, it's like... NO.
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  • Qbiken
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    The boss has a mechanic where he takes more damage while being enraged, this mechanic alone makes up for the increased HP on the boss.
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  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.

    If you can keep the boss taunted and stay alive, a fake tank you are not.
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  • Jakx
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    It's curious how DLC dungeons continue to get harder but there's no real power compensation. So the only thing the game is doing is making it harder to complete content and likely excluding more and more players from taking advantage of said new content. How is that monetarily sound from a business stand point?


    I think games like WoW go way too far in making all content so accessible to everyone but ESO has different burdens. As the developers have already said and I think genuinely agreed upon, the skill gap in this game is HUGE. The amount of people who cant light attack weave is likely the majority yet these dungeons' DPS requirements necessitate the ability to light attack weave to put out enough damage. Their dungeon tuning is at complete odds with their admitted issues.

    Personally, I can do the content skill-wise but its getting harder and harder to find people to do it with. So that means I cant complete the content.

    TLDR: Devs say the skill gap in the game is too high but continually create DLC dungeons that require more dps without any power increases. So how is that a winning formula.
    Joined September 2013
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  • zvavi
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    Jakx wrote: »
    It's curious how DLC dungeons continue to get harder but there's no real power compensation.

    Please, vUG and vIR are waaaaaay easier than vLoM and vMGF.

    And skill gap is too high because of cp, gear, and proper rotation. If you want to bring the floor up I think that ridding of cp (while buffing dmg to stay at the same lvl) and then making proper tutorials is the thing that should be done.
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  • Taleof2Cities
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    Jakx wrote: »
    It's curious how DLC dungeons continue to get harder but there's no real power compensation. So the only thing the game is doing is making it harder to complete content and likely excluding more and more players from taking advantage of said new content. How is that monetarily sound from a business stand point?

    That's exactly what normal DLC dungeons are for, @Jakx.

    To be able to still complete "said new content" without being excluded because of player build deficiencies such as low DPS.

    Just because a player can't complete veteran hard mode doesn't mean they can still complete the storyline and dungeon clear on normal.

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  • Shantu
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    The Ice Reach boss is fine. The deficiencies are generally not in the game (excluding performance issues beyond our control)...but in the players. This is not to say that some, for whatever valid reason, aren't able to progressively increase their ability, but for the most part people are just not willing to put in the time and effort required. They want things easy. And if it's not, they blame the game.

    The DF has always been, and always will be, a crap shoot. Not sure why people still go on about it. It's been said a gazillion times....if you want a stable group, look to guild members.
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  • Fruity_Ninja
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    It’s got a bit of health, but it’s a seriously easy fight to solo. Even easier in a group. Not sure it needs to be made easier, it’s a great dungeon.
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  • xaraan
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    In vet it has almost double the health... All dlc dungeons are nightmare even on normal if your dds have no dmg tbh...

    Also, please elaborate how it brings to more fake tanks, because from what I gathered, there are 2 types of "fake tanks", those that agro and survive (and arent really fake tanks), and the a**holes that just queue as tank but make the group not be able to pass boss cause they s*** a** and can't even deal dmg while tanking it on normal.

    PS the boss is entirely soloable on vet. And you want to nerf normal?

    On vet it's fine because people queuing vet icereach for the most part will pull 30k+ dps. On normal however, i will often be the highest dps in my group as a tank pulling 4k dps...

    And idk what's there to elaborate. I'm queuing as a legit tank and i'm having to spend an hour to per run because the bosses have too much hp, so i'm going to queue as a tank in a dps spec to make things go faster. Doesn't take a rocket scientist does it?

    Slot a taunt and walla, u do the job of a tank, while dealing dmg, no fake tanking here.

    So a fake tank. You're literally arguing with me for the sake of it.

    If you can keep the boss taunted and stay alive, a fake tank you are not.

    Eh, this is true unless staying alive involved running and rolling around like a chicken with his head cut off and not keeping the boss still or applying various buffs and debuffs for the real DPS.

    If someone has a build that's doing both that and damage, sounds solid. But I think most people get mad b/c the best you see out of a fake tank is what I described and more often worse is no taunt at all obviously.
    -- @xaraan --
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  • Jakx
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    Jakx wrote: »
    It's curious how DLC dungeons continue to get harder but there's no real power compensation. So the only thing the game is doing is making it harder to complete content and likely excluding more and more players from taking advantage of said new content. How is that monetarily sound from a business stand point?

    That's exactly what normal DLC dungeons are for, @Jakx.

    To be able to still complete "said new content" without being excluded because of player build deficiencies such as low DPS.

    Just because a player can't complete veteran hard mode doesn't mean they can still complete the storyline and dungeon clear on normal.

    Sure but I believe my post was more nuanced than what effectively you're saying is "get good." Agree that there needs to be challenging content. I'm just raising the prospect that the pendulum and where its at/headed needs to be considered. Especially if normal modes will become too hard.

    Remember that the majority of people who post on these forums will tend to be veterans and more skilled. It should be noted that ESO is more than ever a solo player, house building simulator, where some of these players may step foot into a dungeon someday. NOT saying thats who you cater this type of content to but if you consider the middle ground on that.. ESO has a massive skill gap and if you continue to invest development resources into ever dwindling hardcore playerbase then it might become an issue. Especially since its dwindling because of not properly investing in performance fixes for the better part of 6 years.

    Just look at this new reddit thread. OP has 700 hours and never grouped with a single player. Its 113 more comments of people who play the exact same way. Just saying, expand your concepts on what this game IS and not what we as veteran hardcore players myopically think is how to play.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/fxdj6o/i_cant_be_the_only_one_who_plays_this_way/
    Edited by Jakx on April 9, 2020 7:36PM
    Joined September 2013
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  • Agenericname
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    Jakx wrote: »
    Jakx wrote: »
    It's curious how DLC dungeons continue to get harder but there's no real power compensation. So the only thing the game is doing is making it harder to complete content and likely excluding more and more players from taking advantage of said new content. How is that monetarily sound from a business stand point?

    That's exactly what normal DLC dungeons are for, @Jakx.

    To be able to still complete "said new content" without being excluded because of player build deficiencies such as low DPS.

    Just because a player can't complete veteran hard mode doesn't mean they can still complete the storyline and dungeon clear on normal.

    Sure but I believe my post was more nuanced than what effectively you're saying is "get good." Agree that there needs to be challenging content. I'm just raising the prospect that the pendulum and where its at/headed needs to be considered. Especially if normal modes will become too hard.

    Remember that the majority of people who post on these forums will tend to be veterans and more skilled. It should be noted that ESO is more than ever a solo player, house building simulator, where some of these players may step foot into a dungeon someday. NOT saying thats who you cater this type of content to but if you consider the middle ground on that.. ESO has a massive skill gap and if you continue to invest development resources into ever dwindling hardcore playerbase then it might become an issue. Especially since its dwindling because of not properly investing in performance fixes for the better part of 6 years.

    Just look at this new reddit thread. OP has 700 hours and never grouped with a single player. Its 113 more comments of people who play the exact same way. Just saying, expand your concepts on what this game IS and not what we as veteran hardcore players myopically think is how to play.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/fxdj6o/i_cant_be_the_only_one_who_plays_this_way/

    The last 2 dungeons in the DLC are considerably easier than the previous. If anything the pendulum's swing is already being adjusted.

    The reason why many have issues in this content isn't damage coming from light attacks. All other things being equal, the difference between someone who weaves light attacks well and someone that does not isn't enough to prevent a timely clear. What you're more likely to find is a series of issues that accompany it that present more challenges, light attacks are rarely the sole issue.

    Some people chose to play solo. Good for them. We shouldn't set the standard for group content on that though.

    We all have the ability to help if we chose, but asking for a nerf is much easier.
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  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Been queuing this dungeon as a tank to farm titanborn and the first boss has 5.6m hp. The problem is you often get dps below 160cp and even below level 50, and this boss takes 5-10 mins to kill, that's not an exaggeration. And it's not only the 1st boss, but the 3rd and 4th boss are also pretty beefy.

    All this does is lead people to queue as fake tanks. That's definitely where i'm headed.

    Queue as a dps. Why not? Why is your first option the wrong one? You're part of the issue. If your dos is good and queue as dps, the number if good DPS will go up, making the real tanks lives easier.

    That's the simple logic if it all. Can't get any raised than that.
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  • sniperfire03
    Icereach is a dps race, not much mechs. Burn em down
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