Stamden and the piercing cold passive

D3N7157

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

GusTheWizard

Actually crit damage is for both magic and Stam. Stam warden gets that buff if anyone applies the chilled status effect. let’s say I’m a magic necro and I use my Glacial Colossus and it applies the chilled effect to an enemy, you as a Stam warden get 4 seconds of 10% increased cirt damage against that enemy.

D3N7157

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Actually crit damage is for both magic and Stam. Stam warden gets that buff if anyone applies the chilled status effect. let’s say I’m a magic necro and I use my Glacial Colossus and it applies the chilled effect to an enemy, you as a Stam warden get 4 seconds of 10% increased cirt damage against that enemy.

you are talking about a diffrient passive sorry the one you mentioned is called glacial presence, as it stands right now
piercing cold is the only passive with absolute zero advantage for stamina warden, rename it to piercing force for example add some stam based damage and its done

Donny_Vito

D3N7157 wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Actually crit damage is for both magic and Stam. Stam warden gets that buff if anyone applies the chilled status effect. let’s say I’m a magic necro and I use my Glacial Colossus and it applies the chilled effect to an enemy, you as a Stam warden get 4 seconds of 10% increased cirt damage against that enemy.

you are talking about a diffrient passive sorry the one you mentioned is called glacial presence, as it stands right now
piercing cold is the only passive with absolute zero advantage for stamina warden, rename it to piercing force for example add some stam based damage and its done

Yeah, it's basically useless for a complete Stam character. It helps a bit on my StamDen for PvP as I use the heals a lot and some of them output magic/frost damage over time. But you are right...it could use a little love for stam.

D3N7157

Donny_Vito wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Actually crit damage is for both magic and Stam. Stam warden gets that buff if anyone applies the chilled status effect. let’s say I’m a magic necro and I use my Glacial Colossus and it applies the chilled effect to an enemy, you as a Stam warden get 4 seconds of 10% increased cirt damage against that enemy.

you are talking about a diffrient passive sorry the one you mentioned is called glacial presence, as it stands right now
piercing cold is the only passive with absolute zero advantage for stamina warden, rename it to piercing force for example add some stam based damage and its done

Yeah, it's basically useless for a complete Stam character. It helps a bit on my StamDen for PvP as I use the heals a lot and some of them output magic/frost damage over time. But you are right...it could use a little love for stam.

i tried to make a stamden work as a trial DD, compared to my stamplar the damage is nonexistent and you really have to work for it, its really unfair on stamdens right now, when was last time anyone has seen a stamden in their raid lol

Malkiv

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

I do not agree that it needs to be changed. There are a number of class passives do not apply to both the magicka and stamina builds. I understand that you want to benefit from it to maximize your damage output, but it not a needed change.

GusTheWizard

Oh my bad. but there are passives other classes have that don’t help both magic and stam like Balanced Warrior for Tamplar which gives them 6% more weapon damage or the Daedric Protection passive for sorc that increases their health and stam recovery by 20%.

Also I don’t think there’s anything you could add to that passive that would make sense with the ice skill line.

D3N7157

Malkiv wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

I do not agree that it needs to be changed. There are a number of class passives do not apply to both the magicka and stamina builds. I understand that you want to benefit from it to maximize your damage output, but it not a needed change.

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

GusTheWizard

D3N7157 wrote: »

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

But same goes for magic warden if you put them against the top magic dps

D3N7157

GusTheWizard wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

But same goes for magic warden if you put them against the top magic dps

ok but magdens are at least great healers and nobody is going to argue about that so they have their own place in the endgame, stamden is literally a dead class outside pvp, they arent even that great at tamking, people prefer NB tanks over wardens...

Malkiv

D3N7157 wrote: »

Malkiv wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

I do not agree that it needs to be changed. There are a number of class passives do not apply to both the magicka and stamina builds. I understand that you want to benefit from it to maximize your damage output, but it not a needed change.

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

I have, and the Templar is by far the easiest Stamina character to parse on. A couple weeks ago, someone posted (on these forums) an 85k dps parse of them attacking with only jabs and LA on a 21m dummy. That is not something the game needs to be balanced around, and it's not a very good real world representation of how the class performs - even if jabs is a bread-and-butter ability for the Stamplar.

Two things to keep in mind when asking for skill change: Does is fit the theme of the skill tree (i.e. class flavour), and does it improve the intended tree as a whole (i.e. class identity)? The answer to both for your proposed change is "no." The PVE Stamden needs a rebalance as a whole - as does the Magden - because they are also sorely lacking DPS. But, Stamden are very competent in PVP. So any changes you made to a Stamden would also have balancing repercussions in pvp.

In summation, your proposed change does not solve the underlying issue.

Caelc

I always see this, this class is at bottom etc, this class is at top.

that will last 6 months before it changes. Remember stamplar use to suck

olsborg

Stamcro and stamdens are currently reigning as top dogs in pvp, as much as your suggestion makes sense, it shouldnt happen until the other classes is buffed by a good margin. Specially nightblades (mag and stam).

D3N7157

Malkiv wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

Malkiv wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

I do not agree that it needs to be changed. There are a number of class passives do not apply to both the magicka and stamina builds. I understand that you want to benefit from it to maximize your damage output, but it not a needed change.

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

I have, and the Templar is by far the easiest Stamina character to parse on. A couple weeks ago, someone posted (on these forums) an 85k dps parse of them attacking with only jabs and LA on a 21m dummy. That is not something the game needs to be balanced around, and it's not a very good real world representation of how the class performs - even if jabs is a bread-and-butter ability for the Stamplar.

Two things to keep in mind when asking for skill change: Does is fit the theme of the skill tree (i.e. class flavour), and does it improve the intended tree as a whole (i.e. class identity)? The answer to both for your proposed change is "no." The PVE Stamden needs a rebalance as a whole - as does the Magden - because they are also sorely lacking DPS. But, Stamden are very competent in PVP. So any changes you made to a Stamden would also have balancing repercussions in pvp.

In summation, your proposed change does not solve the underlying issue.

It's a bandaid fix and this is exactly how the game has been balanced for years now, i believe we all have seen the results of the last complete audit of abilities - lack of class flavour, questionable identity by standardizing all sources of healing and damage, so i don't know why no call it something more appropriate mabe frozen power add 10% physical damage and change subterrain to phys damage too, doesnt seem to be that strange anymore and doesnt affect damage output too much we are talking 2k tooltip max, in trial enviornment or on raid dummy this is going to make a diffrience though and stamden could be viable once more, maybe not for score runs, but at least wont feel like you are dragging your group dps down.

WrathOfInnos

D3N7157 wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

But same goes for magic warden if you put them against the top magic dps

ok but magdens are at least great healers and nobody is going to argue about that so they have their own place in the endgame, stamden is literally a dead class outside pvp, they arent even that great at tamking, people prefer NB tanks over wardens...

That argument is nonsense. Magden DPS is not the same thing as Warden Healer. And Warden tanks are great, used by many of the top groups in end game PVE. Not that Warden tanking is at all related to Stamden or whether they should be used.

mav1234

as much as it sucks, plenty of classes have passives that do not function for mag or stam. This seems a deblierate design decision on ZOS' part.

D3N7157

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

But same goes for magic warden if you put them against the top magic dps

ok but magdens are at least great healers and nobody is going to argue about that so they have their own place in the endgame, stamden is literally a dead class outside pvp, they arent even that great at tamking, people prefer NB tanks over wardens...

That argument is nonsense. Magden DPS is not the same thing as Warden Healer. And Warden tanks are great, used by many of the top groups in end game PVE. Not that Warden tanking is at all related to Stamden or whether they should be used.

I disagree. If you have a magden you can easily get into a progression guild as a healer and play the class you like, as stamden though its not going to be so easy if you want to get into it and parse on a competetive level, also tank uses more magicka abilities so you preserve more of magden identity if you respec. As a stamden you probably need to change much more and level/morph magicka abilities/skillines, you need snb on both but that isnt something DDs use is it?

CleymenZero

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

So your point is to make ALL class passives useful? Go look at sorc passives like rebate, or expert summoner. As meta as you want the clanfear to be, I find having more abilities slotted is more useful and Rebate refunding magicka on pet death or unsummon is also kinda useless.

Capacitor can have some use... 10% mag recov on a stamsorc in pvp COULD be useful but in PvE.... nope. Exploitation... you don't need it as stam but your group could need it but stamsorc doesn't use any abilities from that tree so that passive is useless. They wouldn't complain either if they DID make those passives more useful but wtv.

Finally yeah, if the passive is useless, save the point and slap it onto something else, that's how it always worked.

I'm not saying you're not right to want more useful passives, I just find it's coming out of nowhere after 3 years of that class being out especially when other classes have even more useless class passives and have been out since launch.

I'd support a revamp though.

D3N7157

CleymenZero wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

So your point is to make ALL class passives useful? Go look at sorc passives like rebate, or expert summoner. As meta as you want the clanfear to be, I find having more abilities slotted is more useful and Rebate refunding magicka on pet death or unsummon is also kinda useless.

Capacitor can have some use... 10% mag recov on a stamsorc in pvp COULD be useful but in PvE.... nope. Exploitation... you don't need it as stam but your group could need it but stamsorc doesn't use any abilities from that tree so that passive is useless. They wouldn't complain either if they DID make those passives more useful but wtv.

Finally yeah, if the passive is useless, save the point and slap it onto something else, that's how it always worked.

I'm not saying you're not right to want more useful passives, I just find it's coming out of nowhere after 3 years of that class being out especially when other classes have even more useless class passives and have been out since launch.

I'd support a revamp though.

I feel you, the sorc passives have been battled upon for so long i lost hope, but stamden is getting buffed every now and then so im just bringing out this idea, to make more room for competition to reward a bit harder rotation than some other classes.

Malkiv

D3N7157 wrote: »

Malkiv wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

Malkiv wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

I do not agree that it needs to be changed. There are a number of class passives do not apply to both the magicka and stamina builds. I understand that you want to benefit from it to maximize your damage output, but it not a needed change.

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

I have, and the Templar is by far the easiest Stamina character to parse on. A couple weeks ago, someone posted (on these forums) an 85k dps parse of them attacking with only jabs and LA on a 21m dummy. That is not something the game needs to be balanced around, and it's not a very good real world representation of how the class performs - even if jabs is a bread-and-butter ability for the Stamplar.

Two things to keep in mind when asking for skill change: Does is fit the theme of the skill tree (i.e. class flavour), and does it improve the intended tree as a whole (i.e. class identity)? The answer to both for your proposed change is "no." The PVE Stamden needs a rebalance as a whole - as does the Magden - because they are also sorely lacking DPS. But, Stamden are very competent in PVP. So any changes you made to a Stamden would also have balancing repercussions in pvp.

In summation, your proposed change does not solve the underlying issue.

It's a bandaid fix and this is exactly how the game has been balanced for years now, i believe we all have seen the results of the last complete audit of abilities - lack of class flavour, questionable identity by standardizing all sources of healing and damage, so i don't know why no call it something more appropriate mabe frozen power add 10% physical damage and change subterrain to phys damage too, doesnt seem to be that strange anymore and doesnt affect damage output too much we are talking 2k tooltip max, in trial enviornment or on raid dummy this is going to make a diffrience though and stamden could be viable once more, maybe not for score runs, but at least wont feel like you are dragging your group dps down.

I see where you're going with the shalk damage, and tying it to the passive. What if the damage type of shalk was changed to Frost (but Major debuffs staying same as current) so it is still elemental for the Piercing Cold buff - and the Piercing Cold passive stays the same? That would give you a 10% increase in the frost damage of Shalk, instead of a non-buffed poison damage, and Magden still keep their full buffs from the passive.

CleymenZero

D3N7157 wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

As many of you are aware probably warden's winter embrace skilline has a passive called piercing cold which provides following buff:

-increase frost and magic damage by 10%

as great as the passive might seem it's utterly useless for any stamina warden both from pve and pvp perspective and i believe it should be adjusted

what i propose is to add 10% physical and posion damage buff (subterranean assault is poison damage, cliff racer and most spammables are physical damage) to it so that stamdens get anything out of the passive, since currently its not even worth spending 2 skill points on something, that offers you literally 0 advantage and stamina wardens are the worst of the stamdps as it stands right now, so this change could help relieve that

what are your thoughts on it should ZOS take a look at it in the upcoming PTS cycle?

So your point is to make ALL class passives useful? Go look at sorc passives like rebate, or expert summoner. As meta as you want the clanfear to be, I find having more abilities slotted is more useful and Rebate refunding magicka on pet death or unsummon is also kinda useless.

Capacitor can have some use... 10% mag recov on a stamsorc in pvp COULD be useful but in PvE.... nope. Exploitation... you don't need it as stam but your group could need it but stamsorc doesn't use any abilities from that tree so that passive is useless. They wouldn't complain either if they DID make those passives more useful but wtv.

Finally yeah, if the passive is useless, save the point and slap it onto something else, that's how it always worked.

I'm not saying you're not right to want more useful passives, I just find it's coming out of nowhere after 3 years of that class being out especially when other classes have even more useless class passives and have been out since launch.

I'd support a revamp though.

I feel you, the sorc passives have been battled upon for so long i lost hope, but stamden is getting buffed every now and then so im just bringing out this idea, to make more room for competition to reward a bit harder rotation than some other classes.

I enjoyed what they did with bound armaments. It made the rotation a bit more like stamblade. I still find it clunkier than the stamblade's bow but I'm happy enough with it. It WOULD be fun if all class passives were useful but I just made my peace with it. I just look at the power level of the class so if you want anything adjusted, look first at other classes to see if it's really justifiable to buff x or y passive.

On difficulty of rotation, I would argue that stamden is definitely easier (even if just a bit) than most other classes. If you don't weave properly or even miss 1 freakin light attack, you "screw up" a bit on stamsorc and stamblade. Poppin shalks every 3 abilities is not THAT much easier but more forgiving let's say. Stamden is only easier than stamnecro because I feel shalks to be wayyyy smoother than blastbones and you also have to get used to keeping track of your det siphon explosion and remember that it's off the GCD so you don't actually waste a GCD when using it. I can't speak much for stamDK, I haven't raided with it in more than a year and let's just say that stamplar is BY FAR the easiest.

WrathOfInnos

D3N7157 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

But same goes for magic warden if you put them against the top magic dps

ok but magdens are at least great healers and nobody is going to argue about that so they have their own place in the endgame, stamden is literally a dead class outside pvp, they arent even that great at tamking, people prefer NB tanks over wardens...

That argument is nonsense. Magden DPS is not the same thing as Warden Healer. And Warden tanks are great, used by many of the top groups in end game PVE. Not that Warden tanking is at all related to Stamden or whether they should be used.

I disagree. If you have a magden you can easily get into a progression guild as a healer and play the class you like, as stamden though its not going to be so easy if you want to get into it and parse on a competetive level, also tank uses more magicka abilities so you preserve more of magden identity if you respec. As a stamden you probably need to change much more and level/morph magicka abilities/skillines, you need snb on both but that isnt something DDs use is it?

There is very little overlap between Mag Warden DPS and Warden healer. They share one skill (Fetcher Infection), and have to level up Destruction Staff and Light Armor. All of the gear and other skills are different, weapons are different (Resto/Lightning vs double Inferno) as well as the best races. Swapping between the two requires paying to remorph skills (Unstable Wall vs Blockade).

I’m all for improving stamden DPS, but saying that magden DPS is fine because Warden healers exist is not adding anything to that point.

SidraWillowsky

GusTheWizard wrote: »

D3N7157 wrote: »

please try to do a dps parse on a stamden and then on a stamplar or stamcro with the same gear, i dont believe this buff is unnecessary, stamden pve dps is lackluster at best

But same goes for magic warden if you put them against the top magic dps

Not saying that they don't need some tweaks to improve their group utility, but my main is a DD magden and she's consistently the #1 DD in my raid groups. Pitted against the top players in general then sure, her DPS is lower, but I think that's more my skill level and the fact that no one still really plays Magden DDs much. However, they're in a MUCH better place than they were at this time last year, when they were considered the DD meme class.

Stamden PvE DDs? Just keep getting worse. I believe that from what I've seen, most mag DDs are pretty close in terms of max DPS. Stam DDs are a bit more spread out, but again, they're all viable for endgame vet trials... except stamden. Last I saw they maxed out at 84k DPS on the raid dummy, though perhaps that's changed. The Warden class was pretty clearly designed to be a healer class, but mag DDs have access to healy, tanky, and hard-hitting abilities and as a result are really adaptable to different situations. There are almost no stam morphs to any of the Green Balance or Winter's Embrace skill lines (actually, none at all to WE), so Stamdens are stuck using Animal Companions almost exclusively when it comes to class-specific skills. They're in an utterly abysmal place right now., even relative to Magden DDs.

JinMori

Passives should be more "inclusive", i don't like passives that are useless for either mag or stam.

These % modifier buffs should apply to both stam and mag.

And they should also rework some passives, like the sorc one where you get magicka back when your pet dies, that is such a *** passive. But there are more.

WrathOfInnos

JinMori wrote: »

Passives should be more "inclusive", i don't like passives that are useless for either mag or stam.

These % modifier buffs should apply to both stam and mag.

And they should also rework some passives, like the sorc one where you get magicka back when your pet dies, that is such a *** passive. But there are more.

I agree. Another example of this is the Templar “Balanced Warrior” passive that increases Weapon Damage by 6%. Similar passives on other classes (like Sorc’s “Expert Mage”) work for both Magicka and Stamina builds, but Magicka Templar does not gain 6% Spell Damage. This is one of the reasons that Stamplar is much better than Magplar currently.

ESO_Nightingale

i agree that the piercing cold passive needs to be changed to accommodate stamina warden. but a couple of changes need to happen first imo. The removal of minor berserk from bird of prey and the changing of all or half of the magic damage morphs to frost damage on animal companions, while adding interesting and thematically consolidating stuff that works with what zos is going with on stamden. for example, adding a bleed to bear's heavy attack and a debuff on bleeding enemies that makes them take +4% damage from all sources(thus adding a bleed themed group buff), and a damage bonus against bleeding enemies on subterranean assault. additionally, improving dive and it's morphs, implementing a change like AB4.0 (to sort out the current massive healing issue on arctic blast and to give the class a legitimate stun that isn't awful) and then, finally scaling down piercing cold back down to 6% and the magic damage bonus being changed to bonus physical damage. ZOS is going with the theme of bleeds on stamina warden, after seeing the recent changes to Growing Swarm and Cutting Dive. which i think is cool. no other stamina class uses bleeds.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Another example of this is the Templar “Balanced Warrior” passive that increases Weapon Damage by 6%. Similar passives on other classes (like Sorc’s “Expert Mage”) work for both Magicka and Stamina builds, but Magicka Templar does not gain 6% Spell Damage. This is one of the reasons that Stamplar is much better than Magplar currently.

also not to take away from the point, but doesn't templar gain +10% spell damage from the minor sorcery group passive?

xaraan

10% buff to physical damage is a bit much. Maybe if it was just the poison buff it would be ok, but probably not 10% as even a Warden DPS wouldn't be using that much Ice damage when you look at the various sources of poison a DPS uses. Not talking about available skills, but skill actually used. Plus, you can still get some benefit from the ice passive, especially in PvP where Ice can be a good enchant and the ulti and a couple warden ice skills can be very useful.

Probably adding something like 10% to ice damage and 5% to poison or something similar might not be too crazy.

WrathOfInnos

@ESO_Nightingale Yes Templars bring Sorcery as their Minor named buff. That is useful for solo content. In any organized group it is assumed that Minor Sorcery (10% Spell Damage) and Minor Brutality (10% weapon damage) will both be present. The 6% Weapon Damage is in addition to these named buffs.

ESO_Nightingale

xaraan wrote: »

10% buff to physical damage is a bit much. Maybe if it was just the poison buff it would be ok, but probably not 10% as even a Warden DPS wouldn't be using that much Ice damage when you look at the various sources of poison a DPS uses. Not talking about available skills, but skill actually used. Plus, you can still get some benefit from the ice passive, especially in PvP where Ice can be a good enchant and the ulti and a couple warden ice skills can be very useful.

Probably adding something like 10% to ice damage and 5% to poison or something similar might not be too crazy.

i don't know if you're quoting me. but i'm suggesting 6% physical and frost damage on piercing cold.

JinMori

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Passives should be more "inclusive", i don't like passives that are useless for either mag or stam.

These % modifier buffs should apply to both stam and mag.

And they should also rework some passives, like the sorc one where you get magicka back when your pet dies, that is such a *** passive. But there are more.

I agree. Another example of this is the Templar “Balanced Warrior” passive that increases Weapon Damage by 6%. Similar passives on other classes (like Sorc’s “Expert Mage”) work for both Magicka and Stamina builds, but Magicka Templar does not gain 6% Spell Damage. This is one of the reasons that Stamplar is much better than Magplar currently.

Magplar gains some 2k spell resistance, which compared to 6 % weapon damage... Come on, it's pretty clear which one is better. Just give 6 % to both. And it's not like stamplar does not benefit from the spell resistance.

Passives should be as inclusive as possible, this isn't wow, we are not playing a single specialization, these class skilline allow us to choose between stam and magicka, therefore the passives should reflect that.

There are so many just really bad passives in this game.

I think necromancer overall does passives the best way, aside from the healing and tanking tuned passives, the rest of them have some use for basically all builds., which is how it should be, even some tanking and healer passives have some use outside of their respective roles.

Instead, i think sorc has the worst passives overall.

And the rest is in the middle, still they could be way better, and more useful.

If i were zos, i would start to remake some of these passives into something a bit more useful, let's take rebate for example, realistically, you could take it or leave it, this passive grants you virtually no benefit, or enduring rays on stamplar, literally useless. And what about expert summoner, why is it only useful on pet sorc? What about non pet sorc?

There are just so many of these really bad passives.

ESO_Nightingale

JinMori wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Passives should be more "inclusive", i don't like passives that are useless for either mag or stam.

These % modifier buffs should apply to both stam and mag.

And they should also rework some passives, like the sorc one where you get magicka back when your pet dies, that is such a *** passive. But there are more.

I agree. Another example of this is the Templar “Balanced Warrior” passive that increases Weapon Damage by 6%. Similar passives on other classes (like Sorc’s “Expert Mage”) work for both Magicka and Stamina builds, but Magicka Templar does not gain 6% Spell Damage. This is one of the reasons that Stamplar is much better than Magplar currently.

Magplar gains some 2k spell resistance, which compared to 6 % weapon damage... Come on, it's pretty clear which one is better. Just give 6 % to both. And it's not like stamplar does not benefit from the spell resistance.

Passives should be as inclusive as possible, this isn't wow, we are not playing a single specialization, these class skilline allow us to choose between stam and magicka, therefore the passives should reflect that.

There are so many just really bad passives in this game.

I think necromancer overall does passives the best way, aside from the healing and tanking tuned passives, the rest of them have some use for basically all builds., which is how it should be, even some tanking and healer passives have some use outside of their respective roles.

Instead, i think sorc has the worst passives overall.

And the rest is in the middle, still they could be way better, and more useful.

i'd also say far too much of magden's power is in passives and slotted effects. when it needs a bunch of power siphoned from those into it's actual damage skills.