Guards with killer reflexes (is it a bug?)

kadochka

Dear ZOS,
I have used Silver Bolts in the past. I have had guards attempt to pew-pew me while I swim away from their aggro, bounty on my head. It has never done enough damage to kill me.
Now, in the past day or two, I've noticed sometimes when I get caught by guards (usually trying to pickpocket them, or a NPC detects me, so therefore the guard does too) they will turn around and instantly one-shot me because apparently, some guards carry a super-charged, gun-like crossbow in their back pocket and realize 'Oh, this will help!'. My character isn't super high health, but I've noticed the numbers are always just enough to kill me.
Am I missing something? Has this always happened? I've never noticed it.. It bugs me, because especially on a NB, I have a chance to get away. But, not if they do this...
I thought it might be a bug, and I google-searched it. Only post I found was like this, but all the replies were confused or mocking. So, I'll state:

1. I am not new to the game. I know guards can't be killed.
2. I know they can easily detect me, then chain me, lock me down, suppress my stealth, etc..
3. And again, I've seen them use Silver Bolts on me before. It has never hit this hard, in my experience.

Vevvev

What's your health at by the way? I know every time the guards hit you the damage number goes up. Also are you a vampire? I think the guard's crossbow does deal more damage to daedra and undead, which can be problematic. There was another thread a while back noticing guards using the flare ability to reveal people trying to cloak to get away.

kadochka

Vevvev wrote: »

What's your health at by the way? I know every time the guards hit you the damage number goes up. Also are you a vampire? I think the guard's crossbow does deal more damage to daedra and undead, which can be problematic. There was another thread a while back noticing guards using the flare ability to reveal people trying to cloak to get away.

Just over 16k. The shot always does just over that. Not a vampire yet, but I think being an Undaunted skill.. I believe they do do more damage to vamps? I'd have to check. (Thanks for the reminder; I'm about to vamp this character.)
And yes, annoyingly.. the guards do use flares. I've somewhat worked out a way to avoid them, but then again, hitboxes don't seem to favor me... Thought it was just in Abah's Landing, but apparently the flares are everywhere now.

Nestor

The guard does have an attack that takes whatever health you have. They have always had this attack but usually wait for a few exchanges before unleashing it. Should not be the first one though.




Or, they are really mad because you are missing and goosing them instead.... 😃

kadochka

Nestor wrote: »

The guard does have an attack that takes whatever health you have. They have always had this attack but usually wait for a few exchanges before unleashing it. Should not be the first one though.




Or, they are really mad because you are missing and goosing them instead.... 😃

Sometimes they fight me normally. Other times, they just go 'nope, not gonna deal with it' and use the one-shot as their first attack. It's odd!
And... this one has claws, so she'd hope not.. but they have armor!

(Does it have to do with bounty levels, perhaps?? I don't really care about getting bounty, so my half-hearted thievery tends to put me up several thousand gold in bounty. Sometimes 6-7k+ if I go for a while.)

KMarble

kadochka wrote: »

(Does it have to do with bounty levels, perhaps?? I don't really care about getting bounty, so my half-hearted thievery tends to put me up several thousand gold in bounty. Sometimes 6-7k+ if I go for a while.)

If I'm not mistaken, yes, it does.

JKorr

kadochka wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

The guard does have an attack that takes whatever health you have. They have always had this attack but usually wait for a few exchanges before unleashing it. Should not be the first one though.




Or, they are really mad because you are missing and goosing them instead.... 😃

Sometimes they fight me normally. Other times, they just go 'nope, not gonna deal with it' and use the one-shot as their first attack. It's odd!
And... this one has claws, so she'd hope not.. but they have armor!

(Does it have to do with bounty levels, perhaps?? I don't really care about getting bounty, so my half-hearted thievery tends to put me up several thousand gold in bounty. Sometimes 6-7k+ if I go for a while.)

Yes, if you go past a certain level of bounty you are kill on sight, and the guards will happily follow orders. The bounty meter usually says what the level is; I believe if the sword is red, you're kill on sight.

Upstanding: You have no bounty, and the Guard is not seeking you. The Bounty Meter is not displayed at this level.
Disreputable: You have committed a petty crime, and the Guard is aware of your bounty. Guards who see you will attempt to arrest you.
Notorious: The Guard is aware of your bounty and actively seeking to arrest you. Certain citizens will refuse to speak to you.†
Fugitive: The Guard will attempt to kill you on sight. Committing a major crime immediately makes you a fugitive if you are witnessed

kadochka

JKorr wrote: »

kadochka wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

The guard does have an attack that takes whatever health you have. They have always had this attack but usually wait for a few exchanges before unleashing it. Should not be the first one though.




Or, they are really mad because you are missing and goosing them instead.... 😃

Sometimes they fight me normally. Other times, they just go 'nope, not gonna deal with it' and use the one-shot as their first attack. It's odd!
And... this one has claws, so she'd hope not.. but they have armor!

(Does it have to do with bounty levels, perhaps?? I don't really care about getting bounty, so my half-hearted thievery tends to put me up several thousand gold in bounty. Sometimes 6-7k+ if I go for a while.)

Yes, if you go past a certain level of bounty you are kill on sight, and the guards will happily follow orders. The bounty meter usually says what the level is; I believe if the sword is red, you're kill on sight.

Upstanding: You have no bounty, and the Guard is not seeking you. The Bounty Meter is not displayed at this level.
Disreputable: You have committed a petty crime, and the Guard is aware of your bounty. Guards who see you will attempt to arrest you.
Notorious: The Guard is aware of your bounty and actively seeking to arrest you. Certain citizens will refuse to speak to you.†
Fugitive: The Guard will attempt to kill you on sight. Committing a major crime immediately makes you a fugitive if you are witnessed

I know it works like this, but I'm wondering if maybe there's a certain threshold ZOS doesn't tell you about, where #k bounty or higher means the guards are allowed to one-shot...

Perhaps I'll experiment with that later. Something to think about!

kadochka

It just happened again.


Bounty remaining: 2,367
First thing the guard did once I aggro'd was the one-shot. This was after I accidentally got too close a couple other times to this particular guard, aggro'd, then got away.

RogueShark

Odd.
I've been on a klepto spree lately. Like you, don't care about bounty, just looking for motifs/patterns. My bounty was sitting at 37k the other day, never had a guard one-shot me, so I don't think it's entirely bounty-based (as far as immediately one-shotting goes). It's on my NB, though, so they tend to only get a couple hits in before I cloak away, but none of those instances have been one-shots.

Very strange, I'll err on the side of caution more now. I'll be pretty annoyed to lose an inventory full of goods to a one-shot.

kadochka

RogueShark wrote: »

Odd.
I've been on a klepto spree lately. Like you, don't care about bounty, just looking for motifs/patterns. My bounty was sitting at 37k the other day, never had a guard one-shot me, so I don't think it's entirely bounty-based (as far as immediately one-shotting goes). It's on my NB, though, so they tend to only get a couple hits in before I cloak away, but none of those instances have been one-shots.

Very strange, I'll err on the side of caution more now. I'll be pretty annoyed to lose an inventory full of goods to a one-shot.

Oh wow, I don't think I've ever been above 10k bounty. That's kind of cool!
Yeah, I'm just farming guards for bounty sheets (which are only from guards).. day one was very lucrative, day two not so much.. got less furniture drops and more porcupine-like boltings. Both of my thieves are Khajiit Nightblades, so fairly well-built, I think.
Losing a semi-full inventory of stolen goods makes for a grouchy Khajiit.. one more grouchy than normal! hah!

RogueShark

Lol my dedicated thief is also a cat NB. Such a nice setup for it. But since it's all I use him for, I don't care about the bounty so I pick-pick-stab most of the NPCs I make rounds on and the bounty just racks up pretty quick.

I'm wondering, based on your last post, if it has something to do (intentionally or accidentally with programming) with if the guard has engaged you recently. They do their one-shot mechanic after very extended fights I think? So it may be registering that you've been in combat long enough with a particular guard, opening up for their instant one-shot.

Jaraal

I had no bounty but got caught trying to pick a guard, I did not try to fight her, but rather jumped into the water and got hit by Piercing Bolt for 32k on a 20k health thief.

Seems a bit unreasonable to me. And what’s going to happen when Greymoor goes live? Necros, vampires, and werewolves all going to be one shot by overbuffed guards?

tsaescishoeshiner

They do the one-shot attack if you fight them for too long to prevent characters from just permafighting them everywhere. Re-engaging the same guard probably has something to do with it. I haven't encountered this instant 1-shot, myself

IMO .... Guards are bad to steal from. Their loot pool is diluted with Polished Shillings (bad), they can't be killed, and if they kill you, don't you lose all your stolen goods? I think nobles, mages, scholars, priests (depending on where you are) all have as good or better stuff to drop with less hassle

kadochka

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

They do the one-shot attack if you fight them for too long to prevent characters from just permafighting them everywhere. Re-engaging the same guard probably has something to do with it. I haven't encountered this instant 1-shot, myself

IMO .... Guards are bad to steal from. Their loot pool is diluted with Polished Shillings (bad), they can't be killed, and if they kill you, don't you lose all your stolen goods? I think nobles, mages, scholars, priests (depending on where you are) all have as good or better stuff to drop with less hassle

I steal from guards specifically for Bounty Sheets (furnishings).. otherwise, I would not be stealing from them, definitely.
Some other NPC types also drop furnishings, but I was going specifically for the bounty scrolls.

I'll try not reengaging the same guard multiple times in a row.. maybe that'll help!

Jaraal

kadochka wrote: »

I steal from guards specifically for Bounty Sheets (furnishings).. otherwise, I would not be stealing from them, definitely.
Some other NPC types also drop furnishings, but I was going specifically for the bounty scrolls.

This.

They sell from 4-6k each and are a fairly common drop. They also make nice donations for guild auctions, as people bid well on the novel furnishings.... especially if they include their character's race/sex.

tului78

I've played on and off since PC beta on all 3 systems and never encountered this but I usually immediately run and clear my bounty

A_Silverius

kadochka wrote: »

It just happened again.


Bounty remaining: 2,367
First thing the guard did once I aggro'd was the one-shot. This was after I accidentally got too close a couple other times to this particular guard, aggro'd, then got away.

ZOS must really hate the sneak thief build huh. First Bosmer stealth, now this..

kadochka

tului78 wrote: »

I've played on and off since PC beta on all 3 systems and never encountered this but I usually immediately run and clear my bounty

I only steal on my dedicated thieves, who I don't play otherwise.. so the bounty tends to stay there as I let it wear away naturally.. it usually gets pretty high, so instead of paying it I just go play a different character.

Salix_alba

I think they are on a timer if you don't escape the hostile forces within 20-30 seconds or something like that then the guards one shot you.

I have never seen a guard strait turn around and murder you in one shot first without a chase even when kos I was sure they drop you if you cant escape in the time allotted.

Are you sure you weren't already being pursued by another guard or aggressor before the one that killed you fired and were therefor on the death timer?

Universe

Interesting.
If only a guard was sent to Cyrodiil on behalf of one of the alliances, the alliance war would have ended quickly

Note: You can submit it as a bug report.
Also, this discussion can be moved to here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports

kadochka

Universe wrote: »

Interesting.
If only a guard was sent to Cyrodiil on behalf of one of the alliances, the alliance war would have ended quickly

Note: You can submit it as a bug report.
Also, this discussion can be moved to here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports

Haha! Nobody's taking any keeps now...

And I suppose I should've put it in Bug Reports.. I just wasn't sure it was a bug.
I'm not sure I can move it myself, I think a mod/admin has to? if not, do let me know!

TrinityBreaker

Wait until you get multiple people attacking the same guard and the guard uses riot control. Im convinced that 1 town guard can solo every dungeon/trial on hard mode.

kadochka

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Wait until you get multiple people attacking the same guard and the guard uses riot control. Im convinced that 1 town guard can solo every dungeon/trial on hard mode.

I saw that once! really old footage.
That ability is crazy cool, really.

TrinityBreaker

kadochka wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Wait until you get multiple people attacking the same guard and the guard uses riot control. Im convinced that 1 town guard can solo every dungeon/trial on hard mode.

I saw that once! really old footage.
That ability is crazy cool, really.

I, high key, think it should be a DK ulti. Want to call it Purging Roar or Infernal Burst. Obviously scale down so it does insta-bang people out if the DK's build isnt built for high damage.

kadochka

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

kadochka wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

Wait until you get multiple people attacking the same guard and the guard uses riot control. Im convinced that 1 town guard can solo every dungeon/trial on hard mode.

I saw that once! really old footage.
That ability is crazy cool, really.

I, high key, think it should be a DK ulti. Want to call it Purging Roar or Infernal Burst. Obviously scale down so it does insta-bang people out if the DK's build isnt built for high damage.

Guard service: now hiring!

Robo_Hobo

I think it's related to the amount of time you've had guards chasing you, and that when it reaches a certain threshold they use the insta-kill button on you, however, the time can be carried over between guard chases and decays at some unknown interval over time.


If you want to test this, make sure it's been a long time since you got chased by a guard, and then get a guard to chase you and let them chase you as you casually run away (not far enough that they lose interest and walk away, make sure they're always actively chasing you) and time how long it takes for them decide to pull out the insta-crossbow.

Then when you die, do this again but then make sure you cloak or turn invisible or escape right before the time reaches the insta-kill time that you had last time, let the guard lose interest and walk away. Then, after this has happened, go find a different guard and then let them chase you and see if they pull out the insta-crossbow immediately, or within a second or two.