Vampire changes - awesome, but PLEASE make it a choice!

Raudgrani

I'm kind of excited about vampire changes and all, but seeing/hearing about changes like removal of Supernatural Recovery, and cost increase on non-vampire abilities, I just feel "No no no, not again.... Don't break yet another thing, please...".

SO... Please make this updated "vampire lord" thing a choice, just like it is in Skyrim. PLEASE for the love of the gods, make it a quest you can get as a vampire, where you can go through with it and get all the benefits and drawbacks willingly. I will most likely make some of my toons a hardcore vampire, but I mean - what good does it do my PVE Stamblade to switch 10% recovery for 20% cost increase on 100% of my skills?

Imagine the probably hundreds of thousands of players (with multiple toons, usually) that will need to have vampire removed from their characters because of this. And just think of how many (again, hundreds of thousands - likely) that have PAID real money for vampirism skill line in crown store. In real world, it would probably be considered a criminal offense to change something like that. "Have 10% extra recovery, ah no - wait, what about having 20% more expensive skills instead? Is that fine with you?".

To sum it up: Make new vampire skill line/passives a CHOICE, please. It's frankly even "lore breaking" to just change regular "trash vampires" to mega über overlord vampires just like that, it was like a privilege in Skyrim, so why not here? That every vampire in Tamriel is suddenly a vampire lord, madness...

TX12001rwb17_ESO

They could of just made this a new skill line.

Thevampirenight

Raudgrani wrote: »

I'm kind of excited about vampire changes and all, but seeing/hearing about changes like removal of Supernatural Recovery, and cost increase on non-vampire abilities, I just feel "No no no, not again.... Don't break yet another thing, please...".

SO... Please make this updated "vampire lord" thing a choice, just like it is in Skyrim. PLEASE for the love of the gods, make it a quest you can get as a vampire, where you can go through with it and get all the benefits and drawbacks willingly. I will most likely make some of my toons a hardcore vampire, but I mean - what good does it do my PVE Stamblade to switch 10% recovery for 20% cost increase on 100% of my skills?

Imagine the probably hundreds of thousands of players (with multiple toons, usually) that will need to have vampire removed from their characters because of this. And just think of how many (again, hundreds of thousands - likely) that have PAID real money for vampirism skill line in crown store. In real world, it would probably be considered a criminal offense to change something like that. "Have 10% extra recovery, ah no - wait, what about having 20% more expensive skills instead? Is that fine with you?".

To sum it up: Make new vampire skill line/passives a CHOICE, please. It's frankly even "lore breaking" to just change regular "trash vampires" to mega über overlord vampires just like that, it was like a privilege in Skyrim, so why not here? That every vampire in Tamriel is suddenly a vampire lord, madness...

Well its not like the Vampire Lord at all. It might take some appearance look from it. But it more or less works more like the Bone Goliath Transformation.
I'm hoping the model we saw was an unfinished product.
Anyways the vampire skill line is primary a humaniod skill line with a temp form you can take and do stuff with. Much like Bone Goliath.
Basically it works nothing like the Vampire Clan seen in Skyrim.

Raudgrani

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

I'm kind of excited about vampire changes and all, but seeing/hearing about changes like removal of Supernatural Recovery, and cost increase on non-vampire abilities, I just feel "No no no, not again.... Don't break yet another thing, please...".

SO... Please make this updated "vampire lord" thing a choice, just like it is in Skyrim. PLEASE for the love of the gods, make it a quest you can get as a vampire, where you can go through with it and get all the benefits and drawbacks willingly. I will most likely make some of my toons a hardcore vampire, but I mean - what good does it do my PVE Stamblade to switch 10% recovery for 20% cost increase on 100% of my skills?

Imagine the probably hundreds of thousands of players (with multiple toons, usually) that will need to have vampire removed from their characters because of this. And just think of how many (again, hundreds of thousands - likely) that have PAID real money for vampirism skill line in crown store. In real world, it would probably be considered a criminal offense to change something like that. "Have 10% extra recovery, ah no - wait, what about having 20% more expensive skills instead? Is that fine with you?".

To sum it up: Make new vampire skill line/passives a CHOICE, please. It's frankly even "lore breaking" to just change regular "trash vampires" to mega über overlord vampires just like that, it was like a privilege in Skyrim, so why not here? That every vampire in Tamriel is suddenly a vampire lord, madness...

Well its not like the Vampire Lord at all. It might take some appearance look from it. But it more or less works more like the Bone Goliath Transformation.
I'm hoping the model we saw was an unfinished product.
Anyways the vampire skill line is primary a humaniod skill line with a temp form you can take and do stuff with. Much like Bone Goliath.

How is it "not like vampire lord at all"? It's not CALLED vampire lord, right. But it's obvious it's meant to be another more full version of vampire, like people have requested because they looked at werewolf, and thought it "was" so much more. They based it on the necro goliath instead, and "met half way" so to say.

I don't know really what this has to do with what I'm bringing up though? Lore wise, I haven't learned that every vampire in TES can suddenly change form into a beast with like double health and changed visual appearance, that sounds a lot like the vampire lord - something you become by choice.

This is not only about breaking lore, it's mainly about breaking the game for just about everyone that has a vampire character. Once again. I have like 7 or so vampires, and I think about keeping it on maximum one, if this goes through (and of course it will, maybe not with these exact numbers, but basically).

FierceSam

No.

We do not get to keep the happy passives.

The existing vampire ‘passive line’ was a disgrace. Totally, totally broken. Almost all my characters are vampires simply for the passives (which are stupidly good with almost no downside). They never feed, they never do any ‘vampiring’, they don’t take it seriously in any way whatsoever. It might as well be called the Happy Passive skill line.

The new skill line appears to make being a vampire an active choice. You actually have to do something beyond a one time mini quest to maintain the benefits. And there are drawbacks too. It means any characters who want to continue being vampires (assuming that’s how it works and there isn’t some kind of plottastic incident that magically removes vampirism from everyone who sets foot in Update 27) will actually have to work at it.

Or imagine if one of the consequences of the onset of harrowstorms was they induced some kind of seizure to existing vampires so that these changes weren’t just a bunch of game changes being thrown in, but actually part of the storyline... that might be really interesting.

I imagine most of my characters will end up getting ‘cured’, as much from a desire to avoid grind as from the lack of any clear cut passive benefit. But maybe one or two will embrace this.

But it’s a great change.

gatekeeper13

Although the changes will ruin both my tanks and make me cure them from vampirism, to be honest no one became a Vampire to play as a vampire. Theme was like dead, people were using it mostly for 1 passive and the changes ZOS is making will put Vampires back on track if someone wants to play like one.

Changes are actually awesome if you want to make a Vampire themed character.

Raudgrani

FierceSam wrote: »

No.

We do not get to keep the happy passives.

The existing vampire ‘passive line’ was a disgrace. Totally, totally broken. Almost all my characters are vampires simply for the passives (which are stupidly good with almost no downside). They never feed, they never do any ‘vampiring’, they don’t take it seriously in any way whatsoever. It might as well be called the Happy Passive skill line.

The new skill line appears to make being a vampire an active choice. You actually have to do something beyond a one time mini quest to maintain the benefits. And there are drawbacks too. It means any characters who want to continue being vampires (assuming that’s how it works and there isn’t some kind of plottastic incident that magically removes vampirism from everyone who sets foot in Update 27) will actually have to work at it.

Or imagine if one of the consequences of the onset of harrowstorms was they induced some kind of seizure to existing vampires so that these changes weren’t just a bunch of game changes being thrown in, but actually part of the storyline... that might be really interesting.

I imagine most of my characters will end up getting ‘cured’, as much from a desire to avoid grind as from the lack of any clear cut passive benefit. But maybe one or two will embrace this.

But it’s a great change.

True to a certain extent, but I can't see the negative thing about it. I used to play werewolf a lot, I don't even know how many werewolves I have - but I do know that I have a total of 1 skill point invested into the werewolf skill line, account wide. And that's just to be able of giving anyone stupid enough to want it, a werewolf bite. I haven't cured it on any of them, because there are no drawbacks, and even though it's unlikely, one day it might actually be worthwhile to play werewolf again.

The "drawback" on vampirism is the increased fire vulnerability, and no matter of you play PVE or PVP, fire seems to be the main damage element everywhere (to such an extent it's getting repetitive), I think that's a pretty ok trade-off for 10% recovery, especially since the damage mitigation you really have, is mostly good for enduring all the flame damage everywhere.

As a last resort, I would even be ok with losing the 10% recovery, if I was able to keep the condition ("just in case") like with werewolf, without all the drawbacks this will now mean.

Raudgrani

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Although the changes will ruin both my tanks and make me cure them from vampirism, to be honest no one became a Vampire to play as a vampire. Theme was like dead, people were using it mostly for 1 passive and the changes ZOS is making will put Vampires back on track if someone wants to play like one.

Changes are actually awesome if you want to make a Vampire themed character.

Yes, they are. But if you DON'T want to play as a "vampire themed character", on a character that you have had for years - why would making it a chocie be a bad thing? I really, really fail to see it. And I can't fathom how this is considered "awesome", if turning every character you have into a fully fledged vampire, or cure the condition? As if sustain in itself wasn't an issue already, now this - and the suggested "ideas about light and heavy attack changes", which will greatly impact sustain especially in PVP (where you can't dance around in someone's face and light attack them +20 times, to get the same amount of resources back, as if you did one heavy attack).

FierceSam

Raudgrani wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

No.

We do not get to keep the happy passives.

The existing vampire ‘passive line’ was a disgrace. Totally, totally broken. Almost all my characters are vampires simply for the passives (which are stupidly good with almost no downside). They never feed, they never do any ‘vampiring’, they don’t take it seriously in any way whatsoever. It might as well be called the Happy Passive skill line.

The new skill line appears to make being a vampire an active choice. You actually have to do something beyond a one time mini quest to maintain the benefits. And there are drawbacks too. It means any characters who want to continue being vampires (assuming that’s how it works and there isn’t some kind of plottastic incident that magically removes vampirism from everyone who sets foot in Update 27) will actually have to work at it.

Or imagine if one of the consequences of the onset of harrowstorms was they induced some kind of seizure to existing vampires so that these changes weren’t just a bunch of game changes being thrown in, but actually part of the storyline... that might be really interesting.

I imagine most of my characters will end up getting ‘cured’, as much from a desire to avoid grind as from the lack of any clear cut passive benefit. But maybe one or two will embrace this.

But it’s a great change.

True to a certain extent, but I can't see the negative thing about it. I used to play werewolf a lot, I don't even know how many werewolves I have - but I do know that I have a total of 1 skill point invested into the werewolf skill line, account wide. And that's just to be able of giving anyone stupid enough to want it, a werewolf bite. I haven't cured it on any of them, because there are no drawbacks, and even though it's unlikely, one day it might actually be worthwhile to play werewolf again.

The "drawback" on vampirism is the increased fire vulnerability, and no matter of you play PVE or PVP, fire seems to be the main damage element everywhere (to such an extent it's getting repetitive), I think that's a pretty ok trade-off for 10% recovery, especially since the damage mitigation you really have, is mostly good for enduring all the flame damage everywhere.

As a last resort, I would even be ok with losing the 10% recovery, if I was able to keep the condition ("just in case") like with werewolf, without all the drawbacks this will now mean.

Given it costs, what 1,500 gold to get cured and nothing to get bitten again, there’s no sense in keeping a vampire line if it isn’t providing any benefits. You don’t lose any progress you’ve made, you just revert to Stage 0 - normal. Just as you would do if you cured yourself of the werewolf skill line.

Right now, the vampire ‘passive line’ provides a shockingly good set of passives for almost no downsides. The fire thing is not an issue. I really don’t notice it ever. And if I am getting burnt, there’s a bunch of barbecuing non-vampires right next to me going charcoal, at the same rate.

The new line threatens to make non-active vampires progressively less powerful (which is great). So that you have to actively be a vampire just to stay at baseline, but could embrace it and be more. That is great gameplay.

However, it may be that the requirement to actually do something to just stay at baseline might be more than some/many of my characters want to do.

Not sure atm, but interested enough to see what happens. Overall it looks like a good change.

Raudgrani

FierceSam wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

No.

We do not get to keep the happy passives.

The existing vampire ‘passive line’ was a disgrace. Totally, totally broken. Almost all my characters are vampires simply for the passives (which are stupidly good with almost no downside). They never feed, they never do any ‘vampiring’, they don’t take it seriously in any way whatsoever. It might as well be called the Happy Passive skill line.

The new skill line appears to make being a vampire an active choice. You actually have to do something beyond a one time mini quest to maintain the benefits. And there are drawbacks too. It means any characters who want to continue being vampires (assuming that’s how it works and there isn’t some kind of plottastic incident that magically removes vampirism from everyone who sets foot in Update 27) will actually have to work at it.

Or imagine if one of the consequences of the onset of harrowstorms was they induced some kind of seizure to existing vampires so that these changes weren’t just a bunch of game changes being thrown in, but actually part of the storyline... that might be really interesting.

I imagine most of my characters will end up getting ‘cured’, as much from a desire to avoid grind as from the lack of any clear cut passive benefit. But maybe one or two will embrace this.

But it’s a great change.

True to a certain extent, but I can't see the negative thing about it. I used to play werewolf a lot, I don't even know how many werewolves I have - but I do know that I have a total of 1 skill point invested into the werewolf skill line, account wide. And that's just to be able of giving anyone stupid enough to want it, a werewolf bite. I haven't cured it on any of them, because there are no drawbacks, and even though it's unlikely, one day it might actually be worthwhile to play werewolf again.

The "drawback" on vampirism is the increased fire vulnerability, and no matter of you play PVE or PVP, fire seems to be the main damage element everywhere (to such an extent it's getting repetitive), I think that's a pretty ok trade-off for 10% recovery, especially since the damage mitigation you really have, is mostly good for enduring all the flame damage everywhere.

As a last resort, I would even be ok with losing the 10% recovery, if I was able to keep the condition ("just in case") like with werewolf, without all the drawbacks this will now mean.

Given it costs, what 1,500 gold to get cured and nothing to get bitten again, there’s no sense in keeping a vampire line if it isn’t providing any benefits. You don’t lose any progress you’ve made, you just revert to Stage 0 - normal. Just as you would do if you cured yourself of the werewolf skill line.

Right now, the vampire ‘passive line’ provides a shockingly good set of passives for almost no downsides. The fire thing is not an issue. I really don’t notice it ever. And if I am getting burnt, there’s a bunch of barbecuing non-vampires right next to me going charcoal, at the same rate.

The new line threatens to make non-active vampires progressively less powerful (which is great). So that you have to actively be a vampire just to stay at baseline, but could embrace it and be more. That is great gameplay.

However, it may be that the requirement to actually do something to just stay at baseline might be more than some/many of my characters want to do.

Not sure atm, but interested enough to see what happens. Overall it looks like a good change.

Then we are essentially different. I don't think it's "great gameplay", that you are restricted into an ever more narrow corridor, of how you can play the game. What sets and abilities you can use and combine (10% less recovery will mean less viable combinations, of course). I bet you think the suggested changes to light/heavy attacks is "great gameplay" too? I mean, bye bye low recovery heavy attacking petsorcs - just as an example.

Those of you who actually paid 1500 crowns for vampirism for passives alone, consider yourself pranked in a coupe of months.

relentless_turnip

If we get recovery on light attacks I can't see myself missing the 10%... I think they've done a good job👍

Noone should be choosing to be a vampire on a whim for one passive. I am describing myself right now 😂

Its almost like a class on its own and you will need to build for it to make it viable. I may keep a character or two at stage 1 to utilise mist form that is depending how much it increases skill cost.

soulferin

Because of logic - if You want some perks, pay the price. That's fine. I would even look forward to slowly decreasing vampire level after skill use to remember about feeding.

Raudgrani

relentless_turnip wrote: »

If we get recovery on light attacks I can't see myself missing the 10%... I think they've done a good job👍

Noone should be choosing to be a vampire on a whim for one passive. I am describing myself right now 😂

Its almost like a class on its own and you will need to build for it to make it viable. I may keep a character or two at stage 1 to utilise mist form that is depending how much it increases skill cost.

Then you do not do PVP my friend! It's enough to say that much.

And yes, most people are vampires for one passive, and one passive alone - recovery. Mitigation is a bonus, which in itself mitigates a little of the increase flame damage you take. So yes, most or nearly ALL vampires are vampires today, because of one passive.

Raudgrani

soulferin wrote: »

Because of logic - if You want some perks, pay the price. That's fine. I would even look forward to slowly decreasing vampire level after skill use to remember about feeding.

There are no perks to be had anymore, if this goes through - if you don't want to play as a vampire. So yes, I agree and disagree. If you want the particular perks this change means, then pay the price. Those who don't, and are fine with the way things are - don't mind the new skill line.

gatekeeper13

relentless_turnip wrote: »

If we get recovery on light attacks I can't see myself missing the 10%... I think they've done a good job👍

Yeah... Now it will be very easy to take back magicka in my DK tank with light attacks... Before I needed 1HA to replenish a good amount... Now I will need to swap to staff and light attack 10 times...

Thokri

You made choice already.

Every choice has consequence.


And it is been made so easy that you even have option to cure vampirism so it is only half-baked choice.

relentless_turnip

Raudgrani wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

If we get recovery on light attacks I can't see myself missing the 10%... I think they've done a good job👍

Noone should be choosing to be a vampire on a whim for one passive. I am describing myself right now 😂

Its almost like a class on its own and you will need to build for it to make it viable. I may keep a character or two at stage 1 to utilise mist form that is depending how much it increases skill cost.

Then you do not do PVP my friend! It's enough to say that much.

And yes, most people are vampires for one passive, and one passive alone - recovery. Mitigation is a bonus, which in itself mitigates a little of the increase flame damage you take. So yes, most or nearly ALL vampires are vampires today, because of one passive.

I only PvP friend 👍 I also weave. The only time this isn't +400 recovery is when you are on your back bar fleeing and probably not weaving. According to build editor the passive is equivalent to 100ish recovery on my Stamcro which currently sits at 2464 recovery. It is between 50 - 100 on my other characters.

I don't know when the passive is calculated, but it isn't as significant as claimed. I'm sure the Devs have accounted for this loss possibly with light attacks, but I guess we will see!

Tessitura

Raudgrani wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Although the changes will ruin both my tanks and make me cure them from vampirism, to be honest no one became a Vampire to play as a vampire. Theme was like dead, people were using it mostly for 1 passive and the changes ZOS is making will put Vampires back on track if someone wants to play like one.

Changes are actually awesome if you want to make a Vampire themed character.

Yes, they are. But if you DON'T want to play as a "vampire themed character", on a character that you have had for years - why would making it a chocie be a bad thing? I really, really fail to see it. And I can't fathom how this is considered "awesome", if turning every character you have into a fully fledged vampire, or cure the condition? As if sustain in itself wasn't an issue already, now this - and the suggested "ideas about light and heavy attack changes", which will greatly impact sustain especially in PVP (where you can't dance around in someone's face and light attack them +20 times, to get the same amount of resources back, as if you did one heavy attack).

You know, you do have a choice, you can be a vampire, or not be a vampire. Thats what the choice should always have been, and now, it is that.

Raudgrani

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

If we get recovery on light attacks I can't see myself missing the 10%... I think they've done a good job👍

Noone should be choosing to be a vampire on a whim for one passive. I am describing myself right now 😂

Its almost like a class on its own and you will need to build for it to make it viable. I may keep a character or two at stage 1 to utilise mist form that is depending how much it increases skill cost.

Then you do not do PVP my friend! It's enough to say that much.

And yes, most people are vampires for one passive, and one passive alone - recovery. Mitigation is a bonus, which in itself mitigates a little of the increase flame damage you take. So yes, most or nearly ALL vampires are vampires today, because of one passive.

I only PvP friend 👍 I also weave. The only time this isn't +400 recovery is when you are on your back bar fleeing and probably not weaving. According to build editor the passive is equivalent to 100ish recovery on my Stamcro which currently sits at 2464 recovery. It is between 50 - 100 on my other characters.

I don't know when the passive is calculated, but it isn't as significant as claimed. I'm sure the Devs have accounted for this loss possibly with light attacks, but I guess we will see!

Is that so? First "PVP'er" I've ever heard thinking this is a good thing - literally. And you really make me believe you are not being honest. "Weaving" in PVP, to make up for the loss of heavy attack returns? You realize it's typically +20 light attacks we are speaking of? For certain builds, twice as much.
Good luck kiting 3-4 guys 1vX, dodgerolling, healing, buffing up and trying to burst one guy down - including a heavy attack before execute, to get some resources back for healing up again and dealing with the next one in line? But perhaps I can bunnyhop around them for some 40 seconds and build up some stamina, and light attack some 30 times too?

I can't wait to see PVP healers trying to get having the Major Mending buff up, while frantically spamming light attacks +20 times (missing targets not even taken into consideration here), to make up for ONE heavy attack - and delivering complete and utter s**t healing, because they will need three recovery glyphs and/or Atronach mundus to make sustain work, and/or forget about Major Mending much of the time (which would fill a single purpose, no other real reason to heavy attack for a healer).

This will affect a vast number of other types of builds too, tanks too among them.

Raudgrani

Thokri wrote: »

You made choice already.

Every choice has consequence.


And it is been made so easy that you even have option to cure vampirism so it is only half-baked choice.

I made a choice, yes. And there were conditions behind that choice. 10% recovery increase. It made me build many of my characters in a certain way, based on that choice. I am rather sure it applies to a crushing majority of everyone else who became a vampire, and I am also pretty sure most of use don't care about the loss of vampirism itself, but the loss of 10% recovery on an already narrow budget.

Danikat

Its basically a balance patch being advertised as a feature because they have nothing else to include to justify Greymoor being a chapter instead of a story DLC. They're not going to make it optional any more than they'd make any of the previous balance patches optional - can you imagine if everyone got to pick their favourite (aka most overpowered) version of each class or skill line and use that instead of the current one?

That's also why it's a base game update instead of part of the chapter which has to be purchased, they can't let players pick and choose whether to take balance changes or stick with a previous version or trying to balance the game would be literally pointless because players would just skip the changes which make their characters weaker.

But that also means the solution is the same as for any balance update which affects your builds. It will probably be annoying (although bear in mind the numbers aren't finalised yet) but each player will just have to work out how best to work with the new version and what changes they need to make to compensate. I imagine some people who felt pressured to make their characters vampires for the skills might be quite happy to be able to drop it, and it might lead to fewer people asking for a way to hide vampirism.

Raudgrani

Tessitura wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Although the changes will ruin both my tanks and make me cure them from vampirism, to be honest no one became a Vampire to play as a vampire. Theme was like dead, people were using it mostly for 1 passive and the changes ZOS is making will put Vampires back on track if someone wants to play like one.

Changes are actually awesome if you want to make a Vampire themed character.

Yes, they are. But if you DON'T want to play as a "vampire themed character", on a character that you have had for years - why would making it a chocie be a bad thing? I really, really fail to see it. And I can't fathom how this is considered "awesome", if turning every character you have into a fully fledged vampire, or cure the condition? As if sustain in itself wasn't an issue already, now this - and the suggested "ideas about light and heavy attack changes", which will greatly impact sustain especially in PVP (where you can't dance around in someone's face and light attack them +20 times, to get the same amount of resources back, as if you did one heavy attack).

You know, you do have a choice, you can be a vampire, or not be a vampire. Thats what the choice should always have been, and now, it is that.

As previously stated, it's not about vampirism in itself, it's about loss of 10% recovery that I won't get from anywhere else. And no. "Light attacking" is not the answer here, that's not how the game is played in PVP for example. I - and many others - have a heavy attack in store for those we kill, that brings back resources that would require a ridiculous amount of light attacking to cover - so now we lose 10% recovery too, like globally. None but a masochist can enjoy this change.

Sephyr

FierceSam wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

No.

We do not get to keep the happy passives.

The existing vampire ‘passive line’ was a disgrace. Totally, totally broken. Almost all my characters are vampires simply for the passives (which are stupidly good with almost no downside). They never feed, they never do any ‘vampiring’, they don’t take it seriously in any way whatsoever. It might as well be called the Happy Passive skill line.

The new skill line appears to make being a vampire an active choice. You actually have to do something beyond a one time mini quest to maintain the benefits. And there are drawbacks too. It means any characters who want to continue being vampires (assuming that’s how it works and there isn’t some kind of plottastic incident that magically removes vampirism from everyone who sets foot in Update 27) will actually have to work at it.

Or imagine if one of the consequences of the onset of harrowstorms was they induced some kind of seizure to existing vampires so that these changes weren’t just a bunch of game changes being thrown in, but actually part of the storyline... that might be really interesting.

I imagine most of my characters will end up getting ‘cured’, as much from a desire to avoid grind as from the lack of any clear cut passive benefit. But maybe one or two will embrace this.

But it’s a great change.

True to a certain extent, but I can't see the negative thing about it. I used to play werewolf a lot, I don't even know how many werewolves I have - but I do know that I have a total of 1 skill point invested into the werewolf skill line, account wide. And that's just to be able of giving anyone stupid enough to want it, a werewolf bite. I haven't cured it on any of them, because there are no drawbacks, and even though it's unlikely, one day it might actually be worthwhile to play werewolf again.

The "drawback" on vampirism is the increased fire vulnerability, and no matter of you play PVE or PVP, fire seems to be the main damage element everywhere (to such an extent it's getting repetitive), I think that's a pretty ok trade-off for 10% recovery, especially since the damage mitigation you really have, is mostly good for enduring all the flame damage everywhere.

As a last resort, I would even be ok with losing the 10% recovery, if I was able to keep the condition ("just in case") like with werewolf, without all the drawbacks this will now mean.

Given it costs, what 1,500 gold to get cured and nothing to get bitten again, there’s no sense in keeping a vampire line if it isn’t providing any benefits. You don’t lose any progress you’ve made, you just revert to Stage 0 - normal. Just as you would do if you cured yourself of the werewolf skill line.

Right now, the vampire ‘passive line’ provides a shockingly good set of passives for almost no downsides. The fire thing is not an issue. I really don’t notice it ever. And if I am getting burnt, there’s a bunch of barbecuing non-vampires right next to me going charcoal, at the same rate.

The new line threatens to make non-active vampires progressively less powerful (which is great). So that you have to actively be a vampire just to stay at baseline, but could embrace it and be more. That is great gameplay.

However, it may be that the requirement to actually do something to just stay at baseline might be more than some/many of my characters want to do.

Not sure atm, but interested enough to see what happens. Overall it looks like a good change.

I don't agree with you often, but right here I do agree. It's a good change. I worry about the leaked values (the increase of abilities by 20%), but at the same time I'm sure things will be more apparent once it gets to PTS.

Personally, I don't even use Supernatural Recovery anymore for half of my characters due to them being skillpoint starved in preparation of the vampire abilities and morphs, along with the other skill lines that comes with Greymoor. All that I literally have on them are Undeath and the ability to spread the bite. I quickly found out that I didn't really need the additional resources (although they did help efficacy overall). Realizing this, I started lamenting over the fact that vampire really isn't all that fun right now. Being that it's something that is touted as integral in most theorycrafting, it's just flat out boring.

While I had some hopes up that there would have been either some kind of gap closer or a teleport, I'm rather surprised with what they did reveal. I don't really like the Blood Scion model (reminds me too much of Xivilai), but it's no vampire lord from Skyrim that so many were tantrum throwing about. The only thing I'm concerned is the regular ability cost increase at stage 4. Unless I'm reading it wrong, that might be a problem for some although I'm like 90% sure that values on everything that was accidentally leaked will change.

But yeah. Super great that Vampire is more interactive. I can't wait to be able to interact with a part of my character that I've otherwise not been able to for literal years.

Deathlord92

Yeah now I’m a little worried i love playing a vampire on my stamblade I’m a vampire for role play just like I was in previous elder scrolls games 20% cost increase is nasty I pray it doesn’t go live at all even some magic users seem to dislike it.

Deathlord92

Plus vampire on a nb be it stam or magic feels right I guess it’s because of our siphon abilities.

relentless_turnip

Raudgrani wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

If we get recovery on light attacks I can't see myself missing the 10%... I think they've done a good job👍

Noone should be choosing to be a vampire on a whim for one passive. I am describing myself right now 😂

Its almost like a class on its own and you will need to build for it to make it viable. I may keep a character or two at stage 1 to utilise mist form that is depending how much it increases skill cost.

Then you do not do PVP my friend! It's enough to say that much.

And yes, most people are vampires for one passive, and one passive alone - recovery. Mitigation is a bonus, which in itself mitigates a little of the increase flame damage you take. So yes, most or nearly ALL vampires are vampires today, because of one passive.

I only PvP friend 👍 I also weave. The only time this isn't +400 recovery is when you are on your back bar fleeing and probably not weaving. According to build editor the passive is equivalent to 100ish recovery on my Stamcro which currently sits at 2464 recovery. It is between 50 - 100 on my other characters.

I don't know when the passive is calculated, but it isn't as significant as claimed. I'm sure the Devs have accounted for this loss possibly with light attacks, but I guess we will see!

Is that so? First "PVP'er" I've ever heard thinking this is a good thing - literally. And you really make me believe you are not being honest. "Weaving" in PVP, to make up for the loss of heavy attack returns? You realize it's typically +20 light attacks we are speaking of? For certain builds, twice as much.
Good luck kiting 3-4 guys 1vX, dodgerolling, healing, buffing up and trying to burst one guy down - including a heavy attack before execute, to get some resources back for healing up again and dealing with the next one in line? But perhaps I can bunnyhop around them for some 40 seconds and build up some stamina, and light attack some 30 times too?

I can't wait to see PVP healers trying to get having the Major Mending buff up, while frantically spamming light attacks +20 times (missing targets not even taken into consideration here), to make up for ONE heavy attack - and delivering complete and utter s**t healing, because they will need three recovery glyphs and/or Atronach mundus to make sustain work, and/or forget about Major Mending much of the time (which would fill a single purpose, no other real reason to heavy attack for a healer).

This will affect a vast number of other types of builds too, tanks too among them.

What the *** are you talking about 😂

Go on UESP and remove unnatural recovery passive and tell me how bad it is...

Spoiler: it isn't...

200 magicka per light attack more than makes up for this. Hopefully they'll keep recovery on heavy attack... We will see. Even if they don't you can get major mending and hit someone ridiculously hard. That's if they don't rework the passive if they proceed with it.

See how many "ifs" there were in the last paragraph?
There are a lot of variables at the moment...

I haven't seen any PvP content creators YouTube or twitch worried about these changes... Kristofer and Fengrush aren't normally shy in giving their honest thoughts. I also haven't played with anyone remotely worried at this stage.

Let it go to PTS and then lose your mind 👍

jaws343

Raudgrani wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Although the changes will ruin both my tanks and make me cure them from vampirism, to be honest no one became a Vampire to play as a vampire. Theme was like dead, people were using it mostly for 1 passive and the changes ZOS is making will put Vampires back on track if someone wants to play like one.

Changes are actually awesome if you want to make a Vampire themed character.

Yes, they are. But if you DON'T want to play as a "vampire themed character", on a character that you have had for years - why would making it a chocie be a bad thing? I really, really fail to see it. And I can't fathom how this is considered "awesome", if turning every character you have into a fully fledged vampire, or cure the condition? As if sustain in itself wasn't an issue already, now this - and the suggested "ideas about light and heavy attack changes", which will greatly impact sustain especially in PVP (where you can't dance around in someone's face and light attack them +20 times, to get the same amount of resources back, as if you did one heavy attack).

You know, you do have a choice, you can be a vampire, or not be a vampire. Thats what the choice should always have been, and now, it is that.

As previously stated, it's not about vampirism in itself, it's about loss of 10% recovery that I won't get from anywhere else. And no. "Light attacking" is not the answer here, that's not how the game is played in PVP for example. I - and many others - have a heavy attack in store for those we kill, that brings back resources that would require a ridiculous amount of light attacking to cover - so now we lose 10% recovery too, like globally. None but a masochist can enjoy this change.

But that is the problem, something ZOS explicitly stated when they announced that there would be changes to vampirism. Too many player were only choosing to be vampires due to the recovery passive. So they are removing it to force players who don't actually want to play vampires to do something else.

It was mentioned that this change will force players into a narrow build option. But the vampire line was already doing that. You were forced to have it to gain an edge. Now, you can wear different sets or build differently to adjust for the loss of recovery. This is an intended change, and honestly, a needed change. Because the current vampire skill line is terrible.

Starlock

As an apparent "no one" who has a vampire to have a vampire, I'd prefer this too.

My character who is a vampire is already an unconventional build, and while the new abilities are very interesting, the mandatory cost increase to abilities is really bad for him as a magicka character who uses the "wrong" type of weapons. I couldn't care less about supernatural recovery - I typically keep him at stage 1 or 2 anyway and don't get it - but a 5% cost increase on his abilities sucks for a character who can't recover resources by heavy attacking (or light attacking, if they change to that).

TheFM

Luckily the passive to cost increase will be at around 7%, not 20%, and possibly lower as the Devs have acknowledged it's not balanced in its current state. People saying it's a good thing are being completely unreasonable and dismissive, if not condescending and spiteful as well.

xXMeowMeowXx

vampys are going to make creating some new PvP builds very interesting. Especially with the upcoming combat changes.

Depends if ZOS listens to some of the PTS feedback....

Lots of people will complain now on the forums but when it becomes live, players will have vampire toons in droves.