we need to talk.

wolfbone

like my title says, the root of our problems is, in it's self, us.
we let zos give us terrible updates that only make things worse, we let them promise us fixes only for them to lie to us, we waited for update 25, and that's only made things worse, and meanwhile we dont do anything. we just sit around and dont bother doing anything. we still give them our money, for things in their store, for a game that's failing to work properly.

we should send a zos a message and make it clear that we're done letting them ignore us when we say we're not happy with how they're refusing to acknowledge how terrible the performance continues to be. I'm expecting them to take this down, because actions against them that'll hurt their bottom line where we tell them we're not going to sit by and let them carry on, scares them.

I say we should all stop buying crowns to buy in game items, chapters and so on, until they do what they promised us, and fix the performance issue that plagues eso.

think about it. if they receive a reduction in profit, they'll have to take notice.

Sylvermynx

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

brandonv516

Give me a call then, we'll talk.

867-5309 - ask for Jenny!

Kel

I like the thought behind the idea. I really do.
Zos needs to know performance is not okay.

The issue with this line of thinking is flawed fundamentally, because for this to work, the company would have to care about what it's customers think. We know they don't.

It's more likely that a massive end to funding would shut the game down completely forever, and Zos would just move on to their next project.
So, unless you're willing to walk away forever, this strategy isn't going to accomplish anything unless it's total shutdown.

Ydrisselle

Sylvermynx wrote: »

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

Try to play on PC EU during EU prime time, like now...

Lixiviant

Basically, I let my sub run out if there are major problems, such as last year after the Elsweyr release. I mean, you couldn't see any of the enemies much less hit them with a stick. So, unfortunately, as much as it hurt, I just didn't sub or play for 6 months until this year.

Sylvermynx

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

Try to play on PC EU during EU prime time, like now...

I am on PC EU right now, and have been since mid-morning - catching up the MQ on my second account, and doing some of the DC zone quests in between. In fact, when I'm playing on PC EU, it's always your prime time. I just finished Stirk, and am ready to start dinner, so won't be back until tomorrow. Or maybe Monday - as I have my second account on NA ready to do Sancre Tor.

IndianaJames7

Sylvermynx wrote: »

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

This is why ZOS hasn't and won't fix performance. Most of their money comes from non-pvp/endgame players who will insist there is nothing wrong with the game, and want nothing more than a pretty new chapter and recycled events/ reskinned collectibles every now and then.

If the changes they have made over the past year have made one thing clear, it is that the faster paced/ higher skill cap game that many longer term players are wanting ZOS to build onto and improve, is not the direction they intend to take the game.

EDIT: And if steam charts are any indication, the game is still growing despite the collapsing performance, so they really have no incentive to change anything.

Tandor

Sylvermynx wrote: »

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

This.

Cundu_Ertur

brandonv516 wrote: »

Give me a call then, we'll talk.

867-5309 - ask for Jenny!

icwydt

LuxLunae

yes but if there was a way we all can jump into pts, these errors probably would have been caught...Although I did hear that people did put in their concerns and were ignored...Still not sure if break free twice bug is fixed...I won't play until it is.

FierceSam

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

Try to play on PC EU during EU prime time, like now...

Well I do and while it’s not perfect by any means, I have spent many hours playing trials, vet dungeons and doing the Jesters Festival, and it’s working.

Have I DC’d ? Yup. Did it annoy me? Absolutely. But I also played for hours without any issues in PvE and PvP, had a ton of fun with my guildies, who continue to amaze me with their abilities and friendliness. And right now, that counts for a lot more than a few minutes whining about ‘performance’.

zvavi

Speak for yourself, I stopped subbing long ago. And I don't expect those that don't have issues to stop subbing. Since it is clear where the majority is, I am just sad.

Darkenarlol

i'm afraid that your royal we gonna be surprised how fast this thread will be closed

WiseSky

I get great performance

I log in on 16 chars and do writs.

Then I play Assain's Creed

I dont see the problem at all, I think its on your end

RefLiberty

wolfbone wrote: »

we should send a zos a message and make it clear that we're done letting them ignore us when we say we're not happy with how they're refusing to acknowledge how terrible the performance continues to be..

Q2 2020: Update 26

Player Character Loading: We are making the player character loading process multi-threaded on the server to improve performance. Internal bug fixing is underway. This work is on track to release with Update 26.

> This is one of the biggest issues, reason why PvP is not working.

Multi-threaded Fixture Creation on the Client: This work centers around how art assets are constructed and drawn on the client, ultimately spreading this work out over multiple cores.

Character Update: This work centers around how characters are drawn on the client, spreading work out over multiple cores. This work is complete and on track to release with Update 26.

> Again, character loading, this time, client side.

I can't say that it is ignored, at least not per patch notes.
How it will be, I don't know, but this is pretty important patch if goes like it is planned.

Abyssmol

For the next chapter, we'll fix pvp performance. I promise! Please pre-order!

Respect4Elders

brandonv516 wrote: »

Give me a call then, we'll talk.

867-5309 - ask for Jenny!

867-530 NIEEEENIIYEEYIIINE

FTFY

Lysette

Well, i said it years ago already - as long as you guys keep zerging performance will not get much better - you are the problem. This and mashing buttons like mad men - too many requests, too many AoE and DoT effects stacked in very small space results in mass amounts of messaging necessary - not the calculations are the problem, but the messaging resulting from it - you simply overload the server. ZOS basically tries to deal with the symptoms, but the root cause is your behavior.

Well, and of course your combat add-ons, which increase requests on top of it - just use a little math to figure out how the amount of necessary messaging is increasing with more and more nodes which have to be informed about what is going on among them.

adirondack

I have high hopes but low expectations. ZOS can still salvage their game.

We will see if they choose to do so.

I am looking at alternatives as I intend to vote with my $$.

Vaoh

Personally I used to play for hours every day - Vet pledges, helping trial groups/players, BGs, IC, score runs, basically everything etc. I also subscribed a handful of times each year. For anniversary events my Sub was always active.

Currently..... well my play time consists only of logging for hirelings mails/daily reward, trial carries, and a few raids per week. It’s not the same game it used to be and I will never subscribe again if performance and balance are not improved.

Nemesis7884

yeah pvp performance is a bit of an issue at prime time, but everyone is also playing on the same campaign...maybe they can reduce graphic fidelity when you enter a pvp zone automatically to help with that i dont know...

Katahdin

wolfbone wrote: »

I say we should all stop buying crowns to buy in game items, chapters and so on, until they do what they promised us, and fix the performance issue that plagues eso.

think about it. if they receive a reduction in profit, they'll have to take notice.

Do you have any idea how many people, how many posts have suggested this?

At least 100.

It hasnt happened yet

VaranisArano

Lysette wrote: »

Well, i said it years ago already - as long as you guys keep zerging performance will not get much better - you are the problem. This and mashing buttons like mad men - too many requests, too many AoE and DoT effects stacked in very small space results in mass amounts of messaging necessary - not the calculations are the problem, but the messaging resulting from it - you simply overload the server. ZOS basically tries to deal with the symptoms, but the root cause is your behavior.

Well, and of course your combat add-ons, which increase requests on top of it - just use a little math to figure out how the amount of necessary messaging is increasing with more and more nodes which have to be informed about what is going on among them.

Zerging: Playing an AvAvA zone designed for large scale combat between groups of 8 to 24 and with objectives like Emperorship that are explicitly designed to draw as many players to the battlefield as possible...

Cyrodiil is designed to create zergs.

But, no, it's 100% our fault that players all show up for important objectives. ZOS bears absolutely no responsibility for supporting playing in Cyrodiil as its designed.

Lysette

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, i said it years ago already - as long as you guys keep zerging performance will not get much better - you are the problem. This and mashing buttons like mad men - too many requests, too many AoE and DoT effects stacked in very small space results in mass amounts of messaging necessary - not the calculations are the problem, but the messaging resulting from it - you simply overload the server. ZOS basically tries to deal with the symptoms, but the root cause is your behavior.

Well, and of course your combat add-ons, which increase requests on top of it - just use a little math to figure out how the amount of necessary messaging is increasing with more and more nodes which have to be informed about what is going on among them.

Zerging: Playing an AvAvA zone designed for large scale combat between groups of 8 to 24 and with objectives like Emperorship that are explicitly designed to draw as many players to the battlefield as possible...

Cyrodiil is designed to create zergs.

But, no, it's 100% our fault that players all show up for important objectives. ZOS bears absolutely no responsibility for supporting playing in Cyrodiil as its designed.

Well, then keep expecting a different result after repeating the same again and again - you know the Einstein quote?

btw I never said that ZOS would be without fault here - actually Wrobel caused this mess in the first place, his combat system is prone to lead to performance problems - but as it is, ZOS isn't going to change it, and you guys love it - as a result performance won't get significantly better without you changing your habits as well.

WilliamESO

AP only for kills and 2 bars players not 3 then the game is fixed
Thanks the GOAT later

gatekeeper13

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

But I'm not having any issues playing the game - not even on the EU server. So I'm not interested in not subbing or shopping. Now if you want to specify you're talking specifically to those who do end game and pvp, fine.

Try to play on PC EU during EU prime time, like now...

I am on PC EU right now, and have been since mid-morning - catching up the MQ on my second account, and doing some of the DC zone quests in between. In fact, when I'm playing on PC EU, it's always your prime time. I just finished Stirk, and am ready to start dinner, so won't be back until tomorrow. Or maybe Monday - as I have my second account on NA ready to do Sancre Tor.

No, if you re doing zone quests you are not going to notice any lag. But since event started, all dungeons lag like hell. Not only for me but for all group members I happened to play with. Same with pvp, where things are 10 times worse.

Lysette wrote: »

Well, i said it years ago already - as long as you guys keep zerging performance will not get much better - you are the problem. This and mashing buttons like mad men - too many requests, too many AoE and DoT effects stacked in very small space results in mass amounts of messaging necessary - not the calculations are the problem, but the messaging resulting from it - you simply overload the server. ZOS basically tries to deal with the symptoms, but the root cause is your behavior.

Well, and of course your combat add-ons, which increase requests on top of it - just use a little math to figure out how the amount of necessary messaging is increasing with more and more nodes which have to be informed about what is going on among them.

Cyro is a pvp zone. Are you telling us it is the players fault, not ZOS, that we are playing as we were supposed too, as it happens in every pvp game? Since when is there a limit on how many people will participate in a battle and how many skills they should use? Should we see a keep being sieged and just say: "Oh no, I am not going to siege/defend this keep cause I will overload the server" or "omg, I already used 7 skills so I aint gonna use any more to avoid stressing the server, I ll better just die".

Its ZOS problem the game engine is trash and the server cant handle the load. Not ours.

Thevampirenight

Here is the thing, yes things get worse but then given the size of this game are you surprised?
There is a lot more players and the more players there are more issues pop up. They are addressing things and are just getting started. Not everything will be perfect. Some of the stuff they have done has improved things along with making it worse. I think Fps is a bit better on my end. The Performance took a while to get this bad through update after update. Its not just going to fixed right off the bat but the measures they're taking will eventually help a lot, just got to give them time to get it all done. With this Covid 19 thing.

People might stop paying or refund because of issues or whatever that is up to you. But calling for people to punish them isn't the wisest. thing as it could be worse if they have no funds there can be no fixes and if they have no funds why keep the game running? Some of it might go to the games overall upkeep. So we never know where its fully spent but taking away their source of revenue isn't the answer.

At least they have a road map for what they are planning and working on.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56681
So we do know they are working on the Performance issues.
Its just the most impactful changes are taking time. Some might even be delayed however the changes they are doing will make the game better I feel.

Thevampirenight

Lysette wrote: »

Well, i said it years ago already - as long as you guys keep zerging performance will not get much better - you are the problem. This and mashing buttons like mad men - too many requests, too many AoE and DoT effects stacked in very small space results in mass amounts of messaging necessary - not the calculations are the problem, but the messaging resulting from it - you simply overload the server. ZOS basically tries to deal with the symptoms, but the root cause is your behavior.

Well, and of course your combat add-ons, which increase requests on top of it - just use a little math to figure out how the amount of necessary messaging is increasing with more and more nodes which have to be informed about what is going on among them.

The state of the game and the way it is now, and the number of players and I do agree with you. However I think there is other factors that contribute besides that. I think players just don't understand that servers right now might not be able to handle business as usual and that it might not be able to handle that type of gameplay like it use to be able to do. Players do need to do social distancing in Cyrodiil. Like maybe stay 10 to 15 feet apart with one another and not spam abilities so much. Maybe they can practice what we have to do in real life to the Cyrodiil game play and maybe not go into groups of more then ten.

Might actually help a bit with performance somewhat. If players were willing to try something like that in Pvp. Who knows it might help performance for a little while.

Game was designed to do a lot of things but the servers have do to so much now and have to calculate for everyone and there is so many players to calculate. Plus all the chapters dlcs and zones this game has and all the number of players now online because they are stuck at home among other factors.
Yeah I can see why it can get even worse then before.
Given how many players might like to have a non combat pet following them around and the way they work on the server. The work that they are doing on that front might actually help with some of the server strain.

When that change and the other changes go live I think we might see better performance and the game might actually have more breathing room. Sadly it seems they might be holding off on the Aoe changes. Which I think should be released anyway and then do bug fixing later. Aoe does stress the Servers I feel and that is something that does need to get added to the game. They can bug fix after any issues that come from it.

Kalante

As long as there is no pvp or pve players opening 300-600 crown crates to get all radiant mounts all the pleads about fixing the game fall into deaf ears. It was quiet apparent after update 25 which made the game run worse on all platforms. These are the people zos and the investors care about.

THE WHALES. Which are inadvertently casuals.

oxygen_thief

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Players do need to do social distancing in Cyrodiil. Like maybe stay 10 to 15 feet apart with one another and not spam abilities so much. Maybe they can practice what we have to do in real life to the Cyrodiil game play and maybe not go into groups of more then ten.

ive been keeping distance from cyrodil since 2017. the thing is now i have same problems in the imperial city and battlegrounds. with every single update they decrease performance and add some bugs so maybe it will be better if they wont touch game anymore