Flying dagger *whooosh*

precambria

Is there any particular reason this ability needs to be 2 casts, DW gap closer would be awesome for class that don't have them and don't want to be forced into 2hand, but the double casting makes it basically not work for a whole array of reasons.

Line of sight, out of range, pet goes in front of target, chance to make play is passed, can be removed by cleanse, telegraphs next action and gets rolled because it is still a projectile, flight time causes it to not work if target moves during that time, elevation in the terrain causes it to not work because of flight time, all the issues with it are caused by the recasting mechanic similar and other gap closer all work the majority of the time because it initiates on skill use not a recasting and applied debuff.

The spell which this should be already exists ^-^ just copy past it and give DW user a smile and happiness pls.

Royaji

Or turn it back into a half-decent AoE spammable and stop stealing class skills and making their better forms available to everyone. Especially from the class that has already suffered enough.

JinxxND

All they have to do is revert the changes to this skill and it would be fine. But they like to butcher everything and make stuff useless

precambria

Royaji wrote: »

Or turn it back into a half-decent AoE spammable and stop stealing class skills and making their better forms available to everyone. Especially from the class that has already suffered enough.

OKay but my class does not have a Gap closer or even a CC that can be used in melee builds, other morph can be AOE, there does need to be a gap closer in DW and it already exists it just does not work because of design flaw so the idea that it belongs to NB is moot point.

MurderMostFoul

The second press requirement is bad design.

Maulkin

It's like they don't learn.

Silver Leash used to be double tap to pull, no one used it. Now it's pulling on a single tap, lots of tanks use it. They design a new gap closer for DW and what do they do? They make it double tap.

They are doing the same with DK StamFist. First tap to activate rocks, second tap to throw it. Number of stamfist users I have seen since the ability got added? Absolutely 0.

Well done.

MurderMostFoul

Maulkin wrote: »

It's like they don't learn.

Silver Leash used to be double tap to pull, no one used it. Now it's pulling on a single tap, lots of tanks use it. They design a new gap closer for DW and what do they do? They make it double tap.

They are doing the same with DK StamFist. First tap to activate rocks, second tap to throw it. Number of stamfist users I have seen since the ability got added? Absolutely 0.

Well done.

I use the new stone fist in BGs on my stamdk. It's not anything like the skill i would have designed, but it's not all together bad.

The AOE cast has the same damage as the follow-up range casts, and has a pretty short cast time. It's damage isn't too far below dizzy and it's definitely harder to avoid.

Maulkin

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

It's like they don't learn.

Silver Leash used to be double tap to pull, no one used it. Now it's pulling on a single tap, lots of tanks use it. They design a new gap closer for DW and what do they do? They make it double tap.

They are doing the same with DK StamFist. First tap to activate rocks, second tap to throw it. Number of stamfist users I have seen since the ability got added? Absolutely 0.

Well done.

I use the new stone fist in BGs on my stamdk.It's not anything like the skill i would have designed, but it's not all together bad.

The AOE cast has the same damage as the follow-up range casts , and has a pretty short cast time. It's damage isn't too far below dizzy and it's definitely harder to avoid.

But the AoE is 6m PBAoE. Meaning melee range. What's the point of having a ranged skill with a double tap and the first tap only does something when you're in melee range? That's just bad design 101. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts.

Should be a melee range punch, with damage and cost adjusted accordingly for a melee (not ranged or aoe) ability. The skill is currently more expensive than Dizzy while doing 20% less damage and with a rubbish secondary effect (Seething Fury) compared to Off Balance. Remove the pre-tap, just every 3rd cast does something special like stuns or deal extra damage to cc immune targets.

MurderMostFoul

Maulkin wrote: »

Should be a melee range punch, with damage and cost adjusted accordingly for a melee (not ranged or aoe) ability. The skill is currently more expensive than Dizzy while doing 20% less damage and with a rubbish secondary effect (Seething Fury) compared to Off Balance. Remove the pre-tap, just every 3rd cast does something special like stuns or deal extra damage to cc immune targets.

I totally agree, and if I did CP PvP, I'd be running dizzy to get off balance, but in BGs (NoCP), off balance is a lot less valuable if you have other reliable stuns. The stun from stone fist is helpful occasionally, but I prefer my stuns to come from Leap.

Tommy_The_Gun

Is there any particular reason why to use this instead of rolling a NB NB is still in the game ?

Short answer OP:
If this gap closer was only "one cast" - it would be an exact "copy-paste" NB skill, but better and available for every class... wait... I have seen that before....

mav1234

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Is there any particular reason why to use this instead of rolling a NB NB is still in the game ?

Short answer OP:
If this gap closer was only "one cast" - it would be an exact "copy-paste" NB skill, but better and available for every class... wait... I have seen that before....

other classes have gap closer - I don't consider gap closers to be a skill NBs have had copy and pasted to another skill line so everyone has it. hell, the NB gap closer is, after flying daggers, my least favorite because of the huge windup.

otoh, fear is a fair argument to make on taking something from NBs to give to everyone.

Royaji

mav1234 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Is there any particular reason why to use this instead of rolling a NB NB is still in the game ?

Short answer OP:
If this gap closer was only "one cast" - it would be an exact "copy-paste" NB skill, but better and available for every class... wait... I have seen that before....

other classes have gap closer - I don't consider gap closers to be a skill NBs have had copy and pasted to another skill line so everyone has it. hell, the NB gap closer is, after flying daggers, my least favorite because of the huge windup.

otoh, fear is a fair argument to make on taking something from NBs to give to everyone.

Other classes having a gap closer in their kits is not a problem. Having a skill which pretty much copies both flavor and animation of NB's gap closer in a non-class skill line is.

Again, especially if you consider how NBs have already been treated previously. Being the only class saddled with cast time on ultimates, losing their class-defining skill mechanic to another class, having one of their class skills re-appear as a better version in a Guild skill line (and now having a version of this skill which was previously deemed to be too strong and nerfed on NB re-appear in a World skill line) is really not nice. And I'm saying it as someone who has never played NB. There is no need to irritate them even more.

MurderMostFoul

How about this:

Flying Blade:

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 22 meters
Cost: 3780 Stamina

Fire a secret dagger from your sleeve at an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and granting you Major Brutality, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20% for 40 seconds. The enemy is snared by 40% for 2 seconds and you gain Major Expedition, increasing your movement speed by 30% for 2 seconds.

So it's not a gap closer per se, but you can certainly use it in place of one. It avoids copying from NB and gives DW more unique flavor/utility.

precambria

It needs to be an actual gap closer, I'm sorry that nightblade got their spell stolen but that ALREADY happened it just doesn't actually work because of Bugs and flawed implementation. Get rid of the teleport animation idc, make it look like a charge idc but please make it actually work it's not even good for fighting PVE mobs because of body blocking.

^_^ Fix the stone fist one too, and give nightblade a thing they need other than more damage I support all those thing.

Kadoin

Maulkin wrote: »

It's like they don't learn.

Silver Leash used to be double tap to pull, no one used it. Now it's pulling on a single tap, lots of tanks use it. They design a new gap closer for DW and what do they do? They make it double tap.

They are doing the same with DK StamFist. First tap to activate rocks, second tap to throw it. Number of stamfist users I have seen since the ability got added? Absolutely 0.

Well done.

I'm sure they would believe you if they saw your post, however you happened to post it on April 1st. Now "heh, that's a nice April Fool's joke we just saw...we have the data of players with stonefist morphed..."

MurderMostFoul

Kadoin wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

It's like they don't learn.

Silver Leash used to be double tap to pull, no one used it. Now it's pulling on a single tap, lots of tanks use it. They design a new gap closer for DW and what do they do? They make it double tap.

They are doing the same with DK StamFist. First tap to activate rocks, second tap to throw it. Number of stamfist users I have seen since the ability got added? Absolutely 0.

Well done.

I'm sure they would believe you if they saw your post, however you happened to post it on April 1st. Now "heh, that's a nice April Fool's joke we just saw...we have the data of players with stonefist morphed..."

You can count me among the stonefist users. Here is an example of it working fine:

Ragnarock41

Kadoin wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

It's like they don't learn.

Silver Leash used to be double tap to pull, no one used it. Now it's pulling on a single tap, lots of tanks use it. They design a new gap closer for DW and what do they do? They make it double tap.

They are doing the same with DK StamFist. First tap to activate rocks, second tap to throw it. Number of stamfist users I have seen since the ability got added? Absolutely 0.

Well done.

I'm sure they would believe you if they saw your post, however you happened to post it on April 1st. Now "heh, that's a nice April Fool's joke we just saw...we have the data of players with stonefist morphed..."

I'll come back in 2022 when they rework stonefist for the 7th time and give the same exact feedback. Melee class want melee skill. Even players who are supposed to be ''good'' at the game said this skill will be super duper good and disagreed with me when I called it a garbage idea.

Fast forward a year and look at where we are xD Ironically the first version of stamina stonefist actually functioned as a projectile spammable. The new version was made clunkier so that tanks could not blockcast it. I'm not exactly against a two-phase skill. Some of the coolest abilities in this game function like that, for example think of the mDK whip or Nb bow proc.

The reason stonefist and flying dagger does not work and nobody uses them, is because these abilities unfortunately make no sense.

1.Ranged projectile that turns into gapcloser?

If I want to gapclose that means I'm a melee build. Which means I don't want to wait for a projectile to land. Not to mention this skill is very clunky and the slowest gapcloser I've ever used as result of this two-phase interaction. And there is no reward for actually using it properly.

2. AoE stomp that gives you the opportunity to use ranged spammable?

AoE to single target is weird and inconsistent. For a skill with a cast time and two-phase mechanic this is not rewarding enough.

In comparission Nb bow proc and mDk whip proc are so much simpler and both are extremely rewarding to land.