I think I understand nothing about DPS and don't know why

ultimnib16_ESO

I am a new player (6 months) and have been playing mostly tank so that I have now 600 CP and can tank relatively easily all vet dungeons.
Now I wanted to try at last vet Maelstrom and for that I need a minimum of DPS.
So I created a Magicka Templar (no don't tell me that I could have taken something else, it is not the issue).
Got me all the right DPS CP and golden (Torug+Crafty Alfiq+Infernal Guardian) sets with infused Lightning staff with charged enchantement.
I know - there is no crit/damage armor but I want that for a minimum of survivability, I Don't expect to compete with this build against 25 or 30 k DPS. This is again not the issue.
Breezed through normal Maelstroem without a death.

So now before trying vet Maelstroem , I wanted to check my DPS on a dummy and discovered a horror - namely that I understand nothing about the ESO DPS.

I started with just hitting LA what gave about 6k DPS. It seemed a bit low but considering 1.3 k base damage and 5.7 k shock damage from the enchantement it was broadly consistent.
However I was activating the LA WAY more often than once per second so I expected Something like 8-9 k DPS. But as I Don't know the enchantment cool down, it is still broadly consistent.

Next I tried the sequence LA+Puncturing Sweep in loop taking care that the Sweep ends before firing the next LA.
And surprise !
The DPS DECREASED to 5.3 k !
So adding a 2.7 k skill damage to the base LA, I lost almost 1 k damage. WTH ??
I immediately tried other skills combined with LA.
Fo instance crushing shock is supposed to be 6k that should add to the LA.
Yet LA+Crushing shock gave me 6.4 k. Basically the damage output of crushing shock = 0 because what I get is approximately only the base LA damage.
I didn't try LA+2 damage skills because I would have probably found 6 k again.
Apparently from my tests emerges a compelling conclusion - the skills in ESO do broadly 0 damage regardless how many and how often you use

So could somebody explain to me what is going on here ?
How can one explain these results ? How can DPS DECREASE when I add a skill to LA ?
And more importantly what can I do (if anything) that this build goes to 10 or perhaps 15 k DPS what is what I expect necessary for vet Maelstrom.

daemonor

If your doing proper weaving (1skill+1la per second) there's absoloutely no way your dps can be lower than doing these thigns one at a time. And trying to prove that is like trying to prove that water is not wet, don't concern yourself with that. In maelstorm most of the time you don't need a perfect rotation, there's a lot of trash mobs and its important to prioritize the correct ones first while also avoiding various death mechanics.

For starters i would recommend practicing a simple rotation of (starting from backbar) LA+wall of elements+barswap,la+solar pulse,la+jab weaving untill your wall expires. Rinse and repeat. Once you get the hang of it you can also add rune focus (for the mana regen since u need a lot of mana regen in vma), purifying light cause it helps your burst against mini bossess and bosses and also applying elemental drain cause it helps your sustain aswell.

daemonor

And also your set combo is pretty lame, it adds nothing to your surviability like you mentioned. Julianos+mother's sorrow would be much better and it costs around the same and is based on the same principle = crafted set+overland set which you can buy from guild traders. And don't waste your gold golding out armor sets, only the weapons make a noticable difference. Magplars scale very good with spell damage and crit. Forgot to mention you should also add entropy skill into your rotation for the major sorcery boost, don't waste your gold on spellpower pots while learning vma.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

This is not a knowledge issues, its an ability issue. You simply arent weaving properly if your damage is falling as you described. It is further complicated by the fact that templar sweeps/jabs are there own little animal when it comes to weaving. You can start the weave into the next skill MUCH faster than you think.

A better way to measure what you are trying to do (and it will be helpful to practice). Start by measuring your DPS by simply spamming a skill like Force pulse over and over, say 10 casts. Now, see if you can weave 10 casts in the SAME amount of time. First thing that happens is most people realize that in the first scenario, its easy to get 10 skills in 10 seconds, but when they add the weave, it takes them longer than 10 seconds to weave 10 skills. If it is say taking 13-14 seconds to get 10 skills and 10 LAs, you might see a DPS loss. You need to practice you weave. If on PC, get a GCD tracker of some sort.

For sweeps, its even more of an issue. If you are letting the animation play out before you start the next LA weave, you are WAY WAY WAY too slow. I strongly recommend using something to visually measure your channel time, but if that is not an option, you need to try and speed it up. If you watch the sweeps/jabs annimation, it basically goes: hit, hit, hit, small windup, final hit. You need to be starting the weave of the next attack as you are winding up for the final hit. You can always look at your damage recap. If sweeps is only hitting 3 times per cast or you seem to be missing LAs, you are prob going to fast, but a guarantee that right now, you are WAY to slow.

If you dont have access to an addon, use a metronome app on your phone. They are free. 60BPM is probably a little fast. I would start with 50BPM (each beat is a light attack and skill), and see if you can push it to about 55.

As to VMA, can it be done with 10-15k DPS? Yep, if you follow every mechanic to the letter. NOT how to learn it if you ask me. While you dont want to be the glassiest of glass cannons in there, especially when learning, I will say that the best Defense is a good Offense. With Decent gear, and a good weave, just a sweeps spam will be way north of that 10-15k. To be candid, your gear sucks and your weave obviously needs practice. Use DPS gear (Julianos, MS, False God if you can get it), make your chest piece a health glyph, make one or two of your jewelery pieces magic regen, maybe use a defensive monster set, and that's all the tankiness you should need.

ultimnib16_ESO

Well it is still not clear.
Too much discussion about "How can one do more damage with another gear" which I absolutely wanted to avoid because it is NOT the issue.
If I should explain I'd say that Alfiq adds much magicka that I can burn, Infernal does excellent procs which kill mobs far away and Torug is there because it is in excellent synergy with the staff and gives some spell damage. And most of all I Don't need nor want to make a DPS competition .
But again PLEASE no discussions about the merits of this or that set.
Even if I play only 6 months, I know very well that with another set I would do more DPS and I also know what I would take if I wanted to do so.

So again the question : My Lightning staff is doing around 6 k DPS alone .
Now I simply add puncturing sweep - so left click , key 1 , wait till the jabs are done , left click and repeat .
No rocket science just hitting 2 keys . Replace puncturing jabs by crushing shock if you want. Again 2 keys, same result.

The result is that the DPS decrease to 5.3 . E.g adding the skilll has a NEGATIVE damage result
Can somebody explain JUST that ?

Vajrak

ultimnib16_ESO wrote: »

Well it is still not clear.
Too much discussion about "How can one do more damage with another gear" which I absolutely wanted to avoid because it is NOT the issue.
If I should explain I'd say that Alfiq adds much magicka that I can burn, Infernal does excellent procs which kill mobs far away and Torug is there because it is in excellent synergy with the staff and gives some spell damage. And most of all I Don't need nor want to make a DPS competition .
But again PLEASE no discussions about the merits of this or that set.
Even if I play only 6 months, I know very well that with another set I would do more DPS and I also know what I would take if I wanted to do so.

So again the question : My Lightning staff is doing around 6 k DPS alone .
Now I simply add puncturing sweep - so left click , key 1 , wait till the jabs are done , left click and repeat .
No rocket science just hitting 2 keys . Replace puncturing jabs by crushing shock if you want. Again 2 keys, same result.

The result is that the DPS decrease to 5.3 . E.g adding the skilll has a NEGATIVE damage result
Can somebody explain JUST that ?

At least you know your sets are a poor choice, for survivability and dps both in this instance.

Left-click>Key 1 -- are you accounting for the 0.7s delay to fire/cancel, and that lightning staff has a lower attack speed than inferno? You described the issue yourself -- you wait for the skill to finish firing before you start the next action. So instead of 0.5 (unpracticed) to 0.9 (well practiced high dps) your LA ratio is likely around 0.1-0.25...which will net you a dps loss compared to just using skills or just using LA's, because you are slowing down the entire rotation. Enchant CD is 6s, btw. Infused Torgus, you can keep a boost up perfect timing, but it's really not needed.

vMA requires about 12k DPS consistently -- the more you do the smoother some stages go. If you are using Torug, replace the shock enchant with a shielding one -- it will proc infernal guardian for you.

BXR_Lonestar

I finished vet maelstrom on a magplar - albeit on a repurposed magplar. I main a healer and I wanted to get the "Stormproof" title on my main character, so I basically repurposed my character by equipping different sets and resetting my champion points to be more like a DPS. But the sets I used weren't anything fancy:

1. Iceheart Monster set
2. Law of Julianos (crafted in Heavy)
3. Lich for sustain; Lightning staff front bar, resto back bar

The main skills I used for DPS were sweeping jabs, wall of lightning, and damage morph of shards (forgot the skill name). Desto Staff ult on one bar and barrier (support ult) on the back bar.

What I found is that Maelstrom was not necessarily about having overwhelming DPS. I Probably wasn't hitting over 18-20K DPS. Your ability to get through Maelstrom is going to be a matter of a bit of luck and a lot of knowledge of the mechanics.

The good thing about being on a magplar is that your (our!) class is very forgiving in that it has a ton of great self-heal abilities that allow you to survive fights long enough to figure out the mechanics. And watching some videos when you get stuck also helps.

And remember, if its your first time through, its a marathon, not a sprint. Its okay to take breaks and come back on a later date so long as you don't delete the quest.

Juhasow

@ultimnib16_ESO what enchant and trait You have in Your weapon. Answer to that may help to solve the mystery.

Juhasow

Vajrak wrote: »

ultimnib16_ESO wrote: »

Well it is still not clear.
Too much discussion about "How can one do more damage with another gear" which I absolutely wanted to avoid because it is NOT the issue.
If I should explain I'd say that Alfiq adds much magicka that I can burn, Infernal does excellent procs which kill mobs far away and Torug is there because it is in excellent synergy with the staff and gives some spell damage. And most of all I Don't need nor want to make a DPS competition .
But again PLEASE no discussions about the merits of this or that set.
Even if I play only 6 months, I know very well that with another set I would do more DPS and I also know what I would take if I wanted to do so.

So again the question : My Lightning staff is doing around 6 k DPS alone .
Now I simply add puncturing sweep - so left click , key 1 , wait till the jabs are done , left click and repeat .
No rocket science just hitting 2 keys . Replace puncturing jabs by crushing shock if you want. Again 2 keys, same result.

The result is that the DPS decrease to 5.3 . E.g adding the skilll has a NEGATIVE damage result
Can somebody explain JUST that ?

At least you know your sets are a poor choice, for survivability and dps both in this instance.

Left-click>Key 1 -- are you accounting for the 0.7s delay to fire/cancel, and that lightning staff has a lower attack speed than inferno? You described the issue yourself -- you wait for the skill to finish firing before you start the next action. So instead of 0.5 (unpracticed) to 0.9 (well practiced high dps) your LA ratio is likely around 0.1-0.25...which will net you a dps loss compared to just using skills or just using LA's, because you are slowing down the entire rotation. Enchant CD is 6s, btw. Infused Torgus, you can keep a boost up perfect timing, but it's really not needed.

vMA requires about 12k DPS consistently -- the more you do the smoother some stages go. If you are using Torug, replace the shock enchant with a shielding one -- it will proc infernal guardian for you.

Lightning and fire staves light attacks have the same speed and the same global cooldown. Damaging proc enchantments cooldown is 4 second and buffs/debuffs enchantments cooldown is 10 seconds. To get 0,1 light attack ratio someone would have to use 1 light attack every 10 seconds which is kinda unrealistic scenario. Even 0,25 la ratio which is 1 light attack per 4 seconds is also hard to find realistic if someone is trying to weave. I don't know what do You mean excatly by "0.7s delay to fire/cancel".

xWarbrain

You only need high DPS for top tier score runs. Your sets are fine, vMA is 90% about knowing the mechanics and 10% build. Also keep in mind normal Maelstrom is nothing like vet, they don't compare at all. You can beat normal before hitting level 30 on a new character.

If any of your attacks have a DoT on them it would drop your DPS results because its doing less damage while you wait to get out of combat. Fire enchants are one example of this. Are all of your result over the same amount of time? To get DPS results, you have to kill the dummy. Doing just a few attacks doesn't tell you your DPS.

ultimnib16_ESO

Well I shouldn't have said that I wanted to do vet Maelstrom because it has nothing to do with the question.
I did the normal run 5 times, died 0, I know the mechanics.
I just wanted to make a DPS check because I know that I will have to kill relatively fast some mobs.
I also don't need any considerations about set bonuses - in 6 months I learned what is there and what does what .

The thing is that having played tank, I was never interested by my DPS and going PvE when you can solo most content I only noticed that it takes an unholy amount of time to kill a WB but as I am never in a hurry in a game, it is not a problem.
This was the FIRST time I tested my DPS on another, specially created, character and realized I understood Nothing even about a simple LA (forget Maelstroms and sets please).

@Johasow : here is the detailed deal.

I have a gold Lightning staff with Infused trait and charged enchantment.
What I read is : weapon damage 1335 , shock damage 5695, reduces enchantment cooldown by 50 %
Further I read on Torug : decreases enchantment cooldown by 30% and inscreases damage by 30% (I suppose it is already factored in the 5695).

So what I expect is that everytime I do a LA , I will do 1335 + 5695 ~ 7k without cooldown which I understood to be 4 sec.
But the cooldown reduction is only 80% what is equivalent to reduce the shock enchantment damage by 20%.
So what I expect with LA is 1335 + 0.8x5695 = 5891. Right ?
Now what the dummy says is approximately 6k what is in the ballpark.
There is a slight problem that if I do 3 LA per second I obtain the same DPS as when I do 1 LA per second but OK, I can live with this small mystery.
It just somehow means that for DPS purposes it doesn't matter how fast I mash the keys.

The big deal comes now.
This time I do LA about 1 per second so the damage should be 6 k/sec like above.
AND I add the CRUSHING SHOCK skill, hitting it also about once per second.
The skill icon says : instant, damage 3x2018 = 6054 and I Don't even consider the CP buffs like Elemental Expert, Elf born etc unless it is already factored in when I read the spell damage on the icon.
So I expect approximately 6 + 6 = 12 k/sec. Right ?

Yet I get LESS than 6k if I trust what the dummy says !
I obtain the same result if I use Puncturing Sweep instead of Crushing Shock

So if someone can explain me WHY, I will be eternally grateful.

ShadowKyuubi

Console or PC player?

xWarbrain

DPS dummies have armor on. You'll never do the damage on your tooltip unless you have penetration equal to the dummy's resistances.

I have no idea what you are asking other than that.

xWarbrain

Also, again, beating normal 5 times without dying does not teach you how to beat vet maelstrom.

vestahls

Next I tried the sequence LA+Puncturing Sweep in loop taking care that the Sweep ends before firing the next LA.

Without having a video of what it looks like when you're doing it...

By the sound of what you said above, I'd say the issue is likely due to your waiting for the Sweeps animation ending before engaging with the next LA. It takes a few more (mili)seconds which extends the S part of the DPS, giving you a lower average.

If you play on PC, I suggest you use addons to track your DPS. You can see clearly how much damage comes from which action, in what amount of time. I can recommend one called Combat Metrics.

Alchimiste1

@ultimnib16_ESO

Alright so here's what is likely happening.
Lets start with puncturing sweeps. The duration of the animation is around 1.5 seconds but the actual damage portion is about .9 seconds so if you are recasting la+sweeps only after the animation ends you are losing quite a bit of dps.

Next lets talk about force pulse.
Force pulse actually procs a burning status effect(a dot) so if you stop using force pulse on the dummy the game things you are still attacking it because the dot is still ticking.

So to compare.
if you spam LA for 10 seconds the game will calculate the dps over 10 seconds
if you spam LA +force pulse and you stop attacking after 10 seconds the game might calculate the dps over a larger duration because the dot is still ticking.

If you want a more accurate comparison I suggest parsing for a longer duration such that the extra duration of the dot becomes negligible or simply long enough to kill the dummy.

if you still end up with less dps then its likely a weaving issue.

ShadowKyuubi

If you're a PC player, please get combat metrics and upload a parse. We would be more than happy to tell you what is going wrong or why your damage is lower.

If you're console, try to make a video of a parse and upload it to youtube so we can watch it.

This conversation is a lot of back and forth because of a lack of information on either side. It is easier for someone to tell you what is going wrong if they can see you do it or have a report of it afterwards. Everyone knows what you should be doing, and everyone knows that weaving correctly should result in a dps increase overall. What we don't know is what you consider weaving or if you're weaving correctly. And everyone descriptions of everything do not make it any more clear.

So if you could provide any sort of visual, be it video or combat metrics, it would go a long way to help solving your problem.

Iskiab

Did you change your CPs to damage CPs?

Damage could go down because the LA GCD is lower than the skill GCD. You can spam more LAs without skills, but the best combination is LA + skill every skill GCD.

With no damage CPs 10k dps sounds about right for mag.

AMeanOne

There is a Global Cooldown on abilities, you cannot do 3 light attacks in 1 second. That's why you're not seeing a damage increase when you spam 3 light attacks in 1 second.

JumpmanLane

Normal Maelstrom won’t teach you the mechanics of Maelstrom arena because you can generally ignore most of them on normal.

Juhasow

@ultimnib16_ESO ok now I have informations I can work with. First of all Your math is wrong in few places. Base cooldown for shock damage enchant is 4 seconds. Cooldown reduction means reduction of the minimum time You can proc enchantment after proccing it before. It have nothing to do with enchantment damage value. Damage value of enchantment is increased by the portion of descriptions saying about increasing enchantment potency/effect and this part is additive. Having 50% cooldown reduction from infused trait and 30% reduction from torugs pact will not reduce cooldown by 80% but by 65% because it's multiplicative formula.

So substracting 65% from 4 seconds leaves us with 1,4 sec cooldown for Your glyph. Light attack global cooldown is 0,7 sec which is half of Your enchantment global cooldown. That means when You spam just light attacks You're able to get enchantment proc every 1,4 sec which is every second light attack giving You the maximum of possible effectiveness Your enchantment can get.

Now when You decide to weave light attacks inbetween abilities things are slightly different. Abilities global cooldown is ~0,9 sec. Jabs chanell time is 1 sec. Jabs do not proc enchantments. When You weave light attacks with jabs Your speed of light attacks goes down from 1 every 0,7 seconds to at best 1 every 1 second that also means You'll be able to proc You enchantment once every 2 seconds.

So instead of getting 1 enchantment proc every 1,4 sec and 1 light attack every 0,7 sec You're getting enchantment proc every 2 sec and light attack proc every 1 sec so jabs need to partially compensate for that. And that is if we assume You're weaving la+jabs with perfect speed. And i kinda doubt Your weaving speed is top notch. Assuming that for example Your weave would have 1,2 or 1,3 sec interval that would be even more DPS loss from light attacks and enchantments compared to braindead light attack spam.

So the conclusion is that the reason You're seeing things You've described is because Your setup is simply favoring braindead light attack spam more then others. Your jabs weaving speed is also most propably not the greatest and in case of this particular setup You're wearing that is putting You into even bigger disadventage. There is also lot of variables You're not talking about and I am not asking because You may be not aware they're important to mention and asking You about all of them would take too much time.

PS. There was even a player who completed vMA with torugs pact and infused bow without having any abilities on bars just with light attacks spam.

ultimnib16_ESO

@Juhasow

Thanks at least you stay on topic.
OK, so cooldown reduction is multplicative.
Follows that the enchantment proc dps reduction is 35% instead of 20% because I supposed that the reduction of both sources (enchantement and Torug) applied to the base cooldown (e.g 4sec).
This is no big deal and the dummy is consistently telling me that using only LA, I do around 6k/sec DPS what the simple maths tell me too regardless if I use 20% or 35% cooldown reduction.
Btw I attack the dummy for 3 min in every test.
It is long enough to get a consistent average for such very simple tests - LA alone and LA+skill alone.
As for all other variables (e.g passives and CP) they are set up to maximize magical damage.
I also checked with alcasthq and what I did is in line with what is suggested for a Mag Templar DPS.
The one exception is that I don't (and do NOT want to) use MS,BS and Valky or Zaan) and the set is NOT the subject of my question.

Now for adding a skill.
I said I was using CRUSHING SHOCK and there is no animation, no channeling and as I understand it less than 1 sec cooldown.
The one unclear thing is that the description says 2k flame, 2k frost and 2k shock but it is not clear whether it is really an AND (e.g 6k dps) or whether it shouldn't be an OR (e.g 2k dps).
Also is unclear whether Crushing Shock suppresses the enchantement proc or not.
I can understand from your explanation that actually using LA + jabs can do approximately the same DPS as doing LA alone.
That strikes as being quite absurd because it means that adding new damage sources doesn't add new damage and every skill with animation, channeling and/or proc suppression is actually useless because it adds Nothing to LAs with procs.
But that relates only to jabs and not to CRUSHING SHOCK.


So the problem is still unexplained.

Why doing LA (6k/sec DPS) + Crushing Shock (6k/sec DPS) in loop gives 6k/sec DPS instead of 12 ?
Why 6+6=6 instead of 12 ?
To be sure I just redid the test - 3 times for each with following averages.
1) Spamming LA -> 6.5k/sec DPS
2) Spamming Crushing Shock (using potions for Magicka) -> 6.6k/sec DPS
3) Spamming (LA + Crushing Shock) -> 6.4k/sec DPS

@The rest

Sorry, I was mistaken.
I do NOT want to do Maelstroem. Actually I do NOT even know what it is and do NOT want to know.
So if you cannot answer the one simple question explicitely and in detail defined above, please avoid to post in this thread.

The question has only one very simple purpose - understand why 6+6=6 in ESO instead of 12 in a normal world.

Schattenfluegel

Maybe you havent the correct timing?

At least, do you have an option to record the rota on a video? Maybe this could help here now?

madman65

I can relate to the delay myself, I`ve had the attacks even stack then fire in multitude. The delay makes it hard to weave for me. I`ve gotten into the habit of going to my cmd, run as administrator and type "ipconfig /flushdns" to reset the dns server. Also, if you have sustain issues just do some heavy attacks and use the swapbar. Just count your swapping to get back to your next rotation.

Juhasow

@ultimnib16_ESO just post some logs. It'll be easier to show You what I mean with graphical representation because it looks like my previous post went all over Your head. You've made so many mistakes in Your theories it's too hard to start explaining what and how You got wrong. Make some logs and link them then I'll be able to explain it to You more clearly.

ultimnib16_ESO

Juhasow wrote: »

it looks like my previous post went all over Your head. You've made so many mistakes in Your theories it's too hard to start explaining what and how You got wrong.

Your post was extremely simple and there was nothing that I could have missed.
Undortunately it didn't answer my question.
God, how hard is it to understand that I did 3 tests on a dummy and got the results that I posted ?
This is no rocket science, just a few additions and substractions. No "theories" there.
Anybody can do these 3 simple tests and observe the same results I posted.

Now perhaps nobody can explain my question but then please say so.
Just to be sure, here are AGAIN the 3 tests and the results - I don't think I can make it simpler.

1) Spamming LA -> 6.5k/sec DPS
2) Spamming Crushing Shock (using potions for Magicka) -> 6.6k/sec DPS
3) Spamming (LA + Crushing Shock) -> 6.4k/sec DPS

Question : why 3 is less than 1 instead of being much higher ?
As for my armor, traits and weapon, I already posted it at the beginning

Juhasow

ultimnib16_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

it looks like my previous post went all over Your head. You've made so many mistakes in Your theories it's too hard to start explaining what and how You got wrong.

Your post was extremely simple and there was nothing that I could have missed.
Undortunately it didn't answer my question.
God, how hard is it to understand that I did 3 tests on a dummy and got the results that I posted ?
This is no rocket science, just a few additions and substractions. No "theories" there.
Anybody can do these 3 simple tests and observe the same results I posted.

Now perhaps nobody can explain my question but then please say so.
Just to be sure, here are AGAIN the 3 tests and the results - I don't think I can make it simpler.

1) Spamming LA -> 6.5k/sec DPS
2) Spamming Crushing Shock (using potions for Magicka) -> 6.6k/sec DPS
3) Spamming (LA + Crushing Shock) -> 6.4k/sec DPS

Question : why 3 is less than 1 instead of being much higher ?
As for my armor, traits and weapon, I already posted it at the beginning

Yes my post was simple. Yet You still failed to understand what I described there and that is why it didn't answer Your question. Belive me You really did not understand what I've said. Post logs and that will help me to explain to You what I mean. Your whole post above is screaming with not understanding what I've said but to uderstand why You would've know the game enough. And You simply don't. And I am not shaming You for that or anything. I am just pointing out that without additional help provided by graphical representation that logs would give it will be hard for me to explain to You excatly why You're getting results You're talking about without making very long post explaining You first how some of the core mechanics work in game. Help me help You and provide logs. Don't make it harder then it has to be.

And no other people won't observe the same results You've posted because part of the issue is incorrect weaving on Your side.

Alchimiste1

post logs, also download light attack helper addon. it would help us see how well you are weaving.

Iskiab

ultimnib16_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

it looks like my previous post went all over Your head. You've made so many mistakes in Your theories it's too hard to start explaining what and how You got wrong.

Your post was extremely simple and there was nothing that I could have missed.
Undortunately it didn't answer my question.
God, how hard is it to understand that I did 3 tests on a dummy and got the results that I posted ?
This is no rocket science, just a few additions and substractions. No "theories" there.
Anybody can do these 3 simple tests and observe the same results I posted.

Now perhaps nobody can explain my question but then please say so.
Just to be sure, here are AGAIN the 3 tests and the results - I don't think I can make it simpler.

1) Spamming LA -> 6.5k/sec DPS
2) Spamming Crushing Shock (using potions for Magicka) -> 6.6k/sec DPS
3) Spamming (LA + Crushing Shock) -> 6.4k/sec DPS

Question : why 3 is less than 1 instead of being much higher ?
As for my armor, traits and weapon, I already posted it at the beginning

I already answered. The light attack cooldown is shorter than the skill cooldown.

The skill cooldown is one skill per second, the light attack cooldown is around .6 seconds. The cooldowns are totally different.

Light attack weaving means using a skill on the skill cooldown (once per second) and also taking advantage of the light attack.

So LA - skill a millisecond afterwards getting them both on the skill cooldown. It is impossible for your dps to go down if you’re doing it correctly.

Bash, light attacks and skills each have different cooldowns. If you’re light attack weaving correctly you’ll never see the light attack animation.

Iskiab

Long winded answer...

What you’re missing is how the game lets you interrupt certain abilities or actions with others. There is a priority for actions and it goes:

Light attack < skill < block < bash (not sure about the order of the last two)

Each action also has its own cooldown:
Skill 1 second
LA .6 seconds
Bash .6 seconds
Block ... well it's block and you can hold it

Light attack weaving is about exploiting this so you can get more actions off and take advantage of the different GCDs and interrupt priority.

If you look at the priority list, it means that you can light attack and then use a skill almost immediately if you only take actions on the skill cooldown. If you're spamming light attacks you will get more light attacks than someone who's weaving, since the light attack cooldown is lower, but the person who's weaving will be getting both every second.

So once every second: LA (millisecond later) - skill (millisecond later) - bash

Grianasteri

Honestly, at this point @ultimnib16_ESO the issues you are discribing have kinda been covered and explained by various folk.

Its fair to say that after 6 months game play, you will have a great deal still to learn. And that is fine, its not a criticism. Just a fact. Ive been playing over 4 years and I am still learning.

Youv said a number of things that demonstrate clear gaps in knowledge. Combat, and specifically LA weaving correctly, and overcoming the fact that adding skills into a rotation, can reduce DPS, these things can take some time. I remember specifically adding skills into a rotation as I experimented and seeing clearly a dps drop. It can be mystifying.

Other than observations, there is little I can add besides which has already been explained by others.