Damage Per a Second at Sparring Targets

MEBengalsFan2001

Since I am finally working on a damage dealer I know how important it is to have an idea of how good our damage is as a damage dealer. I am fully aware that what you do at a target is not how productive you are in a group; you should be doing more damage from having buffs. I am currently using Precursor sparring target to get a quick idea of how effective I am with my damage.

I am currently using the Gryphon and Hunding sets. I was going to use Unfathomable and Red Mountain sets but after some parsing and comparing them to what I am currently using they fall a bit short of the minimum DPS I hope to have on my character.

The minimum I was aiming for was 25K DPS at the Precursor. With the Unfathomable and Red Mountain sets I was averaging around 24K DPS. Using the same rotation with the Gryphon and Hunding I was hitting between 27-32K DPS with most parse around 30K.

First I would like to know if 30K DPS on the Precursor is enough DPS for a DD in Vet Dungeons? If not, what should I am for if I want to be an effective DD.

As for sets I am using; if I go to the Automation set over the Hunding would I see an increase in my damage do to the automation set having an increase to weapon damage for physical damage type which almost all of my abilities do? Or should I stick with the hunding set?

r3turn2s3nd3r

You're going to get many opinions. Mostly the precursor doesn't have enough health bar to test your ability to sustain. You really want to be able to hit your target DPS without running out of resources. The precursor won't let you test this, it dies too quick.

The 3 mil would be a better test that you can do X amount of dps over the course of a protracted fight to start with and for endgame trial testing, pretty much most are going to want the iron atronach.

FakeFox

It would be great to have full information about your build, so we can give you proper answers. But in general the Precursor is not really a representative dummy parse, because it has way to little health.

worrallj

You should be fine... though some dlc stuff will still be challenging. In my experience 25k dps is what you 'need' to do vet dungeons and feel like your pulling your weight. However guilds sometimes have their own requirements for higher end content that are much more stringent- 50k+ requirements (I have never got above 35k or so myself).

Edit: I'm commenting only on the question about how much dps to do vet dungeons, not the particulars of your build or the dummy you tested on.

kathandira

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Since I am finally working on a damage dealer I know how important it is to have an idea of how good our damage is as a damage dealer. I am fully aware that what you do at a target is not how productive you are in a group; you should be doing more damage from having buffs. I am currently using Precursor sparring target to get a quick idea of how effective I am with my damage.

I am currently using the Gryphon and Hunding sets. I was going to use Unfathomable and Red Mountain sets but after some parsing and comparing them to what I am currently using they fall a bit short of the minimum DPS I hope to have on my character.

The minimum I was aiming for was 25K DPS at the Precursor. With the Unfathomable and Red Mountain sets I was averaging around 24K DPS. Using the same rotation with the Gryphon and Hunding I was hitting between 27-32K DPS with most parse around 30K.

First I would like to know if 30K DPS on the Precursor is enough DPS for a DD in Vet Dungeons? If not, what should I am for if I want to be an effective DD.

As for sets I am using; if I go to the Automation set over the Hunding would I see an increase in my damage do to the automation set having an increase to weapon damage for physical damage type which almost all of my abilities do? Or should I stick with the hunding set?

The Precursor is equivalent to a Public Dungeon boss (roughly). It only has 300,000hp. I use this as a starting block for builds, but you have to know that you will not be able to really practice a rotation, or gauge your sustain on this target dummy since it will be dead by the time you complete you abilities on your second bar.

The 3,000,000hp or 6,000,000hp target dummies will be more on par with Normal Mode Trials bosses. Your penetration will also come in play here since these dummies also have a certain amount of physical and spell resistance. This is where you can go through your rotation many times, and test your sustain. This Target Dummy is great for testing your self buffed damage and sustain

Then there is the Iron Atronach. This Target Dummy provides you with all Major and Minor buffs, as well it lays down a synergy on the ground for you to use. This synergy is basically Spear Shards which returns Magicka and Stamina. Using this Target Dummy will allow you to see how much damage you can do when you are in a Trial Group where you receive damage and sustain buffs.

As to your question regarding what is enough DPS to do Vet Dungeons. 25-30k on the Precursor should be enough to do any of the '1' vets. Example, Fungal Grotto 1, or Spindleclutch 1. As these are your introduction to Vet Dungeons, you can jump right into those and test your builds rotation, sustain, and survivability in a live environment. When you decide you want to go to the '2' Vet Dungeons, or DLC dungeons, you are going to want to use a higher level Target Dummy (3mil hp or 6mil hp) and get to at minimum 20k-25k DPS. The higher the better as more DPS means shorter encounters. For some of the DLC Vet Dungeons, you will need not only good DPS, but also decent survivability. Example, having a heal, or shield on your bar can absolutely save your life in those.

kathandira

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

As for sets I am using; if I go to the Automation set over the Hunding would I see an increase in my damage do to the automation set having an increase to weapon damage for physical damage type which almost all of my abilities do? Or should I stick with the hunding set?

Sorry, almost missed this part.

It sort of depends on what class you are. For example, my StamDK uses Deadly Strikes/Hundings/Velidreth for Multi Target/Mobile encounters. And for longer stand still encounters, Relequen/Hundings/Velidreth.

What class are you using? Also, if you can provide a little info about the skills and weapon types you use, that would be helpful to providing you more advice.

MEBengalsFan2001

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

You're going to get many opinions. Mostly the precursor doesn't have enough health bar to test your ability to sustain. You really want to be able to hit your target DPS without running out of resources. The precursor won't let you test this, it dies too quick.

The 3 mil would be a better test that you can do X amount of dps over the course of a protracted fight to start with and for endgame trial testing, pretty much most are going to want the iron atronach.

My build is a followed...

Race: Wood Elf
Class: Warden
Gear: Gryphon, Hunding and Selene monster set
Critical Strike Chance: 55%
Weapon Dmg: 2500

Passives: All the DW, all the animal passive from Warden, and Fighter Guild passives that provide dmg bonus for each fighter guild ability slotted. All medium armor passives, required light and heavy armor passives for my head and shoulder pieces. Currently working on getting the passives for the Undaunted line.

DW Front Bar Abilities: Rapid Strikes, Whirling Blades, Trap Beast, Subterranean Assault, Bird of Prey, Wild Guardian
Bow Back Bar Abilities: Growing Swarm, Arrow Barrage, Trap Beast, Bull Netch, Bird of Prey, Green Lotus

I try to keep the following DoT up as much as possible: Growing Swarm, Arrow Barrage, and Trap Beast.

I typically will do the following for my rotation:
Back Bar: Bull Netch, Growing Swarm, Light Attack, Arrow Barrage, Light Attack, Trap Beast, Light Attack
Front Bar: Subterranean Assault, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack, Subterranean Assault, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack

Use Wild Guardian Ultimate as it pops...

Typically than I rinse and repeat this until my Stamina drop below 25% which I than use a potion to buff my recovery and give stamina back.

I have yet to make the proper potion I need for my DD but I know once I do I imagine my DPS would go up a bit. Right now I'm using the stamina potion you find while adventuring or running a dungeon.

Nestor

Here is the part no one has mentioned yet.

Your gear really does not matter. It is your Rotation that really matters.


Ok, to an extent, gear does matter. Just select gear that supports your build and more importantly your playstyle. However, there are tons of gear combos that will allow you to be an effective DPS. BIS is not going to make you a top DPS.

However, the difference between 10K to 15K and 25K to 50K, or more, is your Rotation. And how good you Light Attack Weave and your ability to Animation Cancel effectively.

kathandira

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

r3turn2s3nd3r wrote: »

You're going to get many opinions. Mostly the precursor doesn't have enough health bar to test your ability to sustain. You really want to be able to hit your target DPS without running out of resources. The precursor won't let you test this, it dies too quick.

The 3 mil would be a better test that you can do X amount of dps over the course of a protracted fight to start with and for endgame trial testing, pretty much most are going to want the iron atronach.

My build is a followed...

Race: Wood Elf
Class: Warden
Gear: Gryphon, Hunding and Selene monster set
Critical Strike Chance: 55%
Weapon Dmg: 2500

Passives: All the DW, all the animal passive from Warden, and Fighter Guild passives that provide dmg bonus for each fighter guild ability slotted. All medium armor passives, required light and heavy armor passives for my head and shoulder pieces. Currently working on getting the passives for the Undaunted line.

DW Front Bar Abilities: Rapid Strikes, Whirling Blades, Trap Beast, Subterranean Assault, Bird of Prey, Wild Guardian
Bow Back Bar Abilities: Growing Swarm, Arrow Barrage, Trap Beast, Bull Netch, Bird of Prey, Subterranean Assault, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack

I try to keep the following DoT up as much as possible: Growing Swarm, Arrow Barrage, and Trap Beast.

I typically will do the following for my rotation:
Back Bar: Bull Netch, Growing Swarm, Light Attack, Arrow Barrage, Light Attack, Trap Beast, Light Attack
Front Bar: Subterranean Assault, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack, Subterranean Assault, Light Attack, Rapid Strikes, Light Attack

Use Wild Guardian Ultimate as it pops...

Typically than I rinse and repeat this until my Stamina drop below 25% which I than use a potion to buff my recovery and give stamina back.

I have yet to make the proper potion I need for my DD but I know once I do I imagine my DPS would go up a bit. Right now I'm using the stamina potion you find while adventuring or running a dungeon.

This looks fine to me. One last question about your build. What Glyphs are you using on your weapons and jewelry? Also, what Traits?

MEBengalsFan2001

kathandira wrote: »

This looks fine to me. One last question about your build. What Glyphs are you using on your weapons and jewelry? Also, what Traits?

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with shock glyph from merchant
1H Sword: Penetration Trait with fire glyph from merchant
Bow: Penetration trait with Frost glyph from merchant

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Stamina trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Thief

I know I have to update my glyph to be more effective.

With my build having Trap Beast I know I can drop the Gryphon set for another set. Would going Levithan set for more crit and going with the shadow mundus be more effective?

kathandira

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

This looks fine to me. One last question about your build. What Glyphs are you using on your weapons and jewelry? Also, what Traits?

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with shock glyph from merchant
1H Sword: Penetration Trait with fire glyph from merchant
Bow: Penetration trait with Frost glyph from merchant

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Stamina trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Thief

I know I have to update my glyph to be more effective.

With my build having Trap Beast I know I can drop the Gryphon set for another set. Would going Levithan set for more crit and going with the shadow mundus be more effective?

You can try the below, and it could increase your damage

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with Poison glyph
1H Dagger: Precise Trait with Stamina Absorb glyph
Bow: Infused trait with Weapon Damage glyph

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Bloodthristy trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Shadow

The baseline for Crit is 50%. You really don't want to go lower than that. Currently you are using the Thief Mundus which is keeping you over 50% (Which is good), but if you switch to a dagger with the Precise Trait (Crit Rating) you might stay at 50%.

Also, you'll notice in my copy of your setup, I switched out the Elemental Glyphs for Poison, Absorb Magicka, and Weapon Damage. Poison should deal more damage for you since you can get bonuses to that through your CP. Absorb Magicka will boost your sustain. And Weapon Damage on the back bar (if Kuta is used to make the glyph) will give you a proc of 400+ Weapon Damage for 5s when it goes off. I also switched your Ring Traits to Blood Thirsty since that will increase your damage dealt to enemies who are in Execute Range. This is actually pretty huge on bosses with a lot of HP's as they are in Execute Range for a decent amount of time, so the increased damage dealt will be significant. I should also mention, if you can afford it, or have a super helpful and generous friend, try to get your glyphs made with Kuta (Yellow). It is absolutely worth it. You may also want to invest in 'Improving' your weapons to Yellow quality as well as it will increase the value of both the base damage they deal, as well as the value of the traits applied to them. This is honestly another significant damage boost.

Lastly, the Mundus change, I suggest switching to Shadow as this will increase your Critical Damage ultimately increasing your damage dealt by a good amount.

virtus753

To add to the notes about his health: the Precursor also has just about half the resists of dungeon mobs and bosses, so you really won’t get an accurate comparison.

kathandira

virtus753 wrote: »

To add to the notes about his health: the Precursor also has just about half the resists of dungeon mobs and bosses, so you really won’t get an accurate comparison.

Totally. I usually put it on par with a Public Dungeon boss, but you can also compare it to earlier Normal dungeons.

For my non-dungeon delving friends who just want to hang out in the world and do w/e, I steer them towards the precursor. But anything beyond that, I find it is only good for testing your quick burst damage, not so much for rotation testing, or anything that requires a stronger build.

MEBengalsFan2001

kathandira wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

This looks fine to me. One last question about your build. What Glyphs are you using on your weapons and jewelry? Also, what Traits?

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with shock glyph from merchant
1H Sword: Penetration Trait with fire glyph from merchant
Bow: Penetration trait with Frost glyph from merchant

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Stamina trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Thief

I know I have to update my glyph to be more effective.

With my build having Trap Beast I know I can drop the Gryphon set for another set. Would going Levithan set for more crit and going with the shadow mundus be more effective?

You can try the below, and it could increase your damage

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with Poison glyph
1H Dagger: Precise Trait with Stamina Absorb glyph
Bow: Infused trait with Weapon Damage glyph

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Bloodthristy trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Shadow

The baseline for Crit is 50%. You really don't want to go lower than that. Currently you are using the Thief Mundus which is keeping you over 50% (Which is good), but if you switch to a dagger with the Precise Trait (Crit Rating) you might stay at 50%.

Also, you'll notice in my copy of your setup, I switched out the Elemental Glyphs for Poison, Absorb Magicka, and Weapon Damage. Poison should deal more damage for you since you can get bonuses to that through your CP. Absorb Magicka will boost your sustain. And Weapon Damage on the back bar (if Kuta is used to make the glyph) will give you a proc of 400+ Weapon Damage for 5s when it goes off. I also switched your Ring Traits to Blood Thirsty since that will increase your damage dealt to enemies who are in Execute Range. This is actually pretty huge on bosses with a lot of HP's as they are in Execute Range for a decent amount of time, so the increased damage dealt will be significant. I should also mention, if you can afford it, or have a super helpful and generous friend, try to get your glyphs made with Kuta (Yellow). It is absolutely worth it. You may also want to invest in 'Improving' your weapons to Yellow quality as well as it will increase the value of both the base damage they deal, as well as the value of the traits applied to them. This is honestly another significant damage boost.

Lastly, the Mundus change, I suggest switching to Shadow as this will increase your Critical Damage ultimately increasing your damage dealt by a good amount.

Thanks for this info.I'll be able to make my own glyph on my healer. Just need to farm 6 skyshards.

As for my gear I was using the Gryphon set for the 10% bonus crit damage as I didn't have Trap Beast when I first reached 50. I recently got that skill opened up and now I'm thinking of using the Leviathan set until I can get Toothrow set as the later seems to provide more crit and higher weapon damage.

kathandira

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

This looks fine to me. One last question about your build. What Glyphs are you using on your weapons and jewelry? Also, what Traits?

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with shock glyph from merchant
1H Sword: Penetration Trait with fire glyph from merchant
Bow: Penetration trait with Frost glyph from merchant

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Stamina trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Thief

I know I have to update my glyph to be more effective.

With my build having Trap Beast I know I can drop the Gryphon set for another set. Would going Levithan set for more crit and going with the shadow mundus be more effective?

You can try the below, and it could increase your damage

1H Axe: Penetration Trait with Poison glyph
1H Dagger: Precise Trait with Stamina Absorb glyph
Bow: Infused trait with Weapon Damage glyph

Gear: Mundus with Stamina glyph
Rings: Bloodthristy trait with 174 Physical Dmg glyph
Neck: Stamina trait with Stamina recovery

Mundus: Shadow

The baseline for Crit is 50%. You really don't want to go lower than that. Currently you are using the Thief Mundus which is keeping you over 50% (Which is good), but if you switch to a dagger with the Precise Trait (Crit Rating) you might stay at 50%.

Also, you'll notice in my copy of your setup, I switched out the Elemental Glyphs for Poison, Absorb Magicka, and Weapon Damage. Poison should deal more damage for you since you can get bonuses to that through your CP. Absorb Magicka will boost your sustain. And Weapon Damage on the back bar (if Kuta is used to make the glyph) will give you a proc of 400+ Weapon Damage for 5s when it goes off. I also switched your Ring Traits to Blood Thirsty since that will increase your damage dealt to enemies who are in Execute Range. This is actually pretty huge on bosses with a lot of HP's as they are in Execute Range for a decent amount of time, so the increased damage dealt will be significant. I should also mention, if you can afford it, or have a super helpful and generous friend, try to get your glyphs made with Kuta (Yellow). It is absolutely worth it. You may also want to invest in 'Improving' your weapons to Yellow quality as well as it will increase the value of both the base damage they deal, as well as the value of the traits applied to them. This is honestly another significant damage boost.

Lastly, the Mundus change, I suggest switching to Shadow as this will increase your Critical Damage ultimately increasing your damage dealt by a good amount.

Thanks for this info.I'll be able to make my own glyph on my healer. Just need to farm 6 skyshards.

As for my gear I was using the Gryphon set for the 10% bonus crit damage as I didn't have Trap Beast when I first reached 50. I recently got that skill opened up and now I'm thinking of using the Leviathan set until I can get Toothrow set as the later seems to provide more crit and higher weapon damage.

No problem! Always happy to help = )

For now, Just keep yourself at 50% crit or above, and do your best to get your weapon damage as close to, or over 3,000. If you can work that out, you will be doing some decent DPS with a well trained rotation.

kringled_1

I would not recommend a lot of time spent on farming Toothrow. Part of the 5th piece bonus is Major Savagery, which can be gotten from potions (most common), evil hunter from fighter's guild, or green lotus on a Stamden.

MEBengalsFan2001

kathandira wrote: »

No problem! Always happy to help = )

For now, Just keep yourself at 50% crit or above, and do your best to get your weapon damage as close to, or over 3,000. If you can work that out, you will be doing some decent DPS with a well trained rotation.

O,k will do. Much appreciated.

I think I need to slow my rotation down to find out which abilities I can cancel with my weapons or another ability to ensure a smooth transition between weapon attacks and ability usage.

MEBengalsFan2001

Been playing around on my rotation and gear.

I am still using the Gryphon gear but updated it to match what @kathandira recommended for jewelry and weapons glyph.

I swapped from hunding to Strength of Automation and saw a nice up swing in my damage.

At the 3M target without any synergy/resource restoring buff I averaged around 35K DPS.

I know I need to fix my automation gear traits along with getting the last few skills I need.

I was considering dropping Bird of Prey and using Camouflaged Hunter. First I would get 1% more increase in my damage as fighter abilities provide 3% per an ability slotted vs. animal companion 2%. I would also get Major Savagery increasing my critical rating by 2191. Finally, with Camouflaged Hunter when I flank the enemy I get the Minor Berserk which is why I am using Bird of Prey. I typically flank the enemy meaning I would get the 8% dmg buff and if not from flanking I should be getting it from the healer.

Thoughts on swapping this over.

With that change I than can use another ability instead of Green Lotus. Not sure what I should use as there are a few options to help my group do more damage or improve resource recovery. Not sure if I should use the bow ability that applies minor fracture or if I should use the ability that provides recovery to anyone I heal. Hmmm.....

El_Borracho

Your DPS is fine for most of the veteran non-DLC dungeons and normal trials (with maybe the exceptions of MOL and HOF). You will need higher DPS for vet DLC dungeons and all vet trials. But more importantly, and you might already know this, you will want to learn how to play with a group. Mechanics, where to stand, etc. That is more important than DPS parses in DLC dungeons and trials.

Enjoy, I think its the best content in the game

MrBrownstone

I'd recommend removing Trap Beast from the backbar (as you already have it slotted frontbar) and replace it with Echoing Vigor. As a Warden your Minor Toughness buff is very valuable for your group.

MEBengalsFan2001

MrBrownstone wrote: »

I'd recommend removing Trap Beast from the backbar (as you already have it slotted frontbar) and replace it with Echoing Vigor. As a Warden your Minor Toughness buff is very valuable for your group.

I understand that buffs don't stack. So when I run dungeons on my Warden DD it is usually with my friend who plays a Warden healer. We coordinate out abilities so we don't double up on buffs/debuffs when it isn't needed. For instance I use Swarm so he uses another ability. I use the frost shield so he focuses more on healing. When I run with him I swap out Green Lotus for the Fighter Guild ability, etc... we try to get the most buffing/debuffing from each other in group content so that runs go smoother.

After playing around on the 21M target that provides all the buff I am hitting around 40-45K DPS. Not sure if that is enough damage. I only tried 3x and didn't change gear, rotation, etc... I know with some tweaking of gear, glyph, rotation I probably easily could hit well above 50K DPS, but this is an alt that I play to break away from playing support roles.

A few passive skills I need are undaunted and alchemy. I will continue to work on my stamina DD. She is a fun little character but isn't my main so achieving the 75k+ DPS isn't a top priority for me. As long as I continue to have fun with her I will continue to play my stamina warden.

kathandira

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

I'd recommend removing Trap Beast from the backbar (as you already have it slotted frontbar) and replace it with Echoing Vigor. As a Warden your Minor Toughness buff is very valuable for your group.

I understand that buffs don't stack. So when I run dungeons on my Warden DD it is usually with my friend who plays a Warden healer. We coordinate out abilities so we don't double up on buffs/debuffs when it isn't needed. For instance I use Swarm so he uses another ability. I use the frost shield so he focuses more on healing. When I run with him I swap out Green Lotus for the Fighter Guild ability, etc... we try to get the most buffing/debuffing from each other in group content so that runs go smoother.

After playing around on the 21M target that provides all the buff I am hitting around 40-45K DPS. Not sure if that is enough damage. I only tried 3x and didn't change gear, rotation, etc... I know with some tweaking of gear, glyph, rotation I probably easily could hit well above 50K DPS, but this is an alt that I play to break away from playing support roles.

A few passive skills I need are undaunted and alchemy. I will continue to work on my stamina DD. She is a fun little character but isn't my main so achieving the 75k+ DPS isn't a top priority for me. As long as I continue to have fun with her I will continue to play my stamina warden.

you are doing great man! Get yourself to that 50 mark (Iron Atronach), and you are good to go for just about anything the game can throw at you, except Vet Hard Mode Trials.

MJallday

The old measure (rough rule of thumb) used to be (on the 3m)

20k is fine on normal
25k is fine For most normal trials
30k is fine for most non dlc vet dungeons
35k is fine for most vet dlc dungeons and craglorn vet trials
40k is fine for all vet trials


There is nothing stopping you going in lower Of course , but at these levels you’ll not be standing out