Can no longer block cancel heals or shields...

zDan

Intended change? I've noticed some abilities block canceling fine, in fact, faster than usual. But abilities that have heals or shields cannot be block cancelled? For instance, rally you cannot block cancel, but the morph forward momentum, with no heal, can be block cancelled.

llElLoboll

"Overall, the core block behaviors are untouched between mechanics and cost."
" The core mechanics to block cancelling remain untouched..."

Block in my experience this patch is wildly inconsistent. Mechanics have definitely changed, but they honestly feel quite different in various situations to me. I can't even block/roll off my mount anymore because it takes like three seconds for the game to register that I'm blocking and dismount me. Honestly I've also had the exact opposite experience with rally. I can immediately block cancel rally but something like cauterize I have to sit and watch the entire animation.

They were told that the new block changes weren't ready to go live and for the third patch in a row they pretty much completely ignored feedback on the PTS, and amazingly enough for the third patch in a row things have gotten worse. It's no wonder less and less people are hopping on the PTS to test things out for them since it would appear that "we're looking into it" really just means "we know best so live with it".

MentalxHammer

Interesting I'm on xbox and rally is one of the skills that CAN be instant cancelled.

Lolwut

zDan

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Interesting I'm on xbox and rally is one of the skills that CAN be instant cancelled.

Lolwut

been hearing some people can block cancel rally and some cant, I haven't tested a lot of skills but its really weird, seems to be the majority of defensive skills

D0PAMINE

You need to barswap cancel now

RedGirl41

I couldn’t block cancel anything today. Was in my house

Arunei

D0PAMINE wrote: »

You need to barswap cancel now

Except for when bar swapping decides not to work, which is a lot ever since u25. Maybe this is ZOS' answer to animation canceling in general; make everything super laggy and unresponsive so people can't do it.

Stebarnz

After patch some skills can no longer be block cancelled but they can be bar swap or roll dodge cancelled.

Other fun things after patch some skills just dont fire, and bar swap just wont change and block looks like your blocking but you aint. yay!

MentalxHammer

zDan wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Interesting I'm on xbox and rally is one of the skills that CAN be instant cancelled.

Lolwut

been hearing some people can block cancel rally and some cant, I haven't tested a lot of skills but its really weird, seems to be the majority of defensive skills

Wow seems like a massive advantage if some players can block cancel and some can't. I was dueling earlier and it felt like mostly rng for whoever's doesn't lag

D0PAMINE

Arunei wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

You need to barswap cancel now

Except for when bar swapping decides not to work, which is a lot ever since u25. Maybe this is ZOS' answer to animation canceling in general; make everything super laggy and unresponsive so people can't do it.

Im well aware. Im having the same combat issues. It worked much better before the update.

TheRealCherokeee3

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

zDan

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

Right? To simply remove a mechanic (intended or not) that has been engraved into muscle memory for over 5 years which really does separate the good players from the bad, is in fact pretty game breaking.

TheRealCherokeee3

zDan wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

Right? To simply remove a mechanic (intended or not) that has been engraved into muscle memory for over 5 years which really does separate the good players from the bad, is in fact pretty game breaking.

Thank you! feels like i've been takin crazy pills over here! Meanwhile most people have been saying "eh lag isnt fun but hey dungeons are pretty! why is everyone so bent out of shape?" Maybe we've just been worn down so much over the years with half measures and promises that add one thing (cosmetic or inconsequential) while quietly removing another that truly affects things...they many players just quietly gave up and moved on? This just feels like a bad marriage and ZOS has been low key cheating for years lol. I just want them to go ahead and flatly admit it straight up so we can divorce and move on lol.

Lylith

zDan wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

Right? To simply remove a mechanic (intended or not) that has been engraved into muscle memory for over 5 years which really does separate the good players from the bad, is in fact pretty game breaking.

boiling frogs. they've been stripping away integral skills for many many updates, now.

figure we'll wind up fighting it out with rubber chickens and spray bottles full of bleach in the end.

TheRealCherokeee3

Lylith wrote: »

zDan wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

Right? To simply remove a mechanic (intended or not) that has been engraved into muscle memory for over 5 years which really does separate the good players from the bad, is in fact pretty game breaking.

boiling frogs. they've been stripping away integral skills for many many updates, now.

figure we'll wind up fighting it out with rubber chickens and spray bottles full of bleach in the end.

If i could ani cancel those id at least be able to still fight

zDan

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Thank you! feels like i've been takin crazy pills over here! Meanwhile most people have been saying "eh lag isnt fun but hey dungeons are pretty! why is everyone so bent out of shape?" Maybe we've just been worn down so much over the years with half measures and promises that add one thing (cosmetic or inconsequential) while quietly removing another that truly affects things...they many players just quietly gave up and moved on? This just feels like a bad marriage and ZOS has been low key cheating for years lol. I just want them to go ahead and flatly admit it straight up so we can divorce and move on lol.

The thing is, the forums aren't really full of experienced pvp'ers lol. It mostly consists of pve'rs, roleplayers, zerglings etc. So you're not going to find many people willing to defend ani cancelling and protecting the skill gap. This isn't a dig at these people might I add, the game would be nothing without them.

doomette

There are a couple of skills I could block cancel before but now I can’t. I haven’t gone through them all, mainly because I was slogging through the psijic line for a character. I’m done (finally, ugh) so I’ll try other characters and abilities today.
Man, I had just gotten the hang of consistently doing it too. 😕

TheRealCherokeee3

zDan wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Thank you! feels like i've been takin crazy pills over here! Meanwhile most people have been saying "eh lag isnt fun but hey dungeons are pretty! why is everyone so bent out of shape?" Maybe we've just been worn down so much over the years with half measures and promises that add one thing (cosmetic or inconsequential) while quietly removing another that truly affects things...they many players just quietly gave up and moved on? This just feels like a bad marriage and ZOS has been low key cheating for years lol. I just want them to go ahead and flatly admit it straight up so we can divorce and move on lol.

The thing is, the forums aren't really full of experienced pvp'ers lol. It mostly consists of pve'rs, roleplayers, zerglings etc. So you're not going to find many people willing to defend ani cancelling and protecting the skill gap. This isn't a dig at these people might I add, the game would be nothing without them.

Yeah man I've slowly realized that. Given the often heafty intimidating talk many use, I just assumed over time many were. Other than recently, many of my posts were of achievements and other non competitive things. So I agree with you and value these types of players too! Of coarse what i'm upset over is in loosing our options. Ah well live and learn...and then b**ch about it on forums

MentalxHammer

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

I uninstalled because of it. Many players have made it clear that if they ruin ani cancelling than that would be the last straw. Very bad move zos.

xXMeowMeowXx

zDan wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Thank you! feels like i've been takin crazy pills over here! Meanwhile most people have been saying "eh lag isnt fun but hey dungeons are pretty! why is everyone so bent out of shape?" Maybe we've just been worn down so much over the years with half measures and promises that add one thing (cosmetic or inconsequential) while quietly removing another that truly affects things...they many players just quietly gave up and moved on? This just feels like a bad marriage and ZOS has been low key cheating for years lol. I just want them to go ahead and flatly admit it straight up so we can divorce and move on lol.

The thing is, the forums aren't really full of experienced pvp'ers lol. It mostly consists of pve'rs, roleplayers, zerglings etc. So you're not going to find many people willing to defend ani cancelling and protecting the skill gap. This isn't a dig at these people might I add, the game would be nothing without them.

Sorry but you’re wrong @zDan. It was defended and comments were censored and feedback was ignored. Ik....

The massed were heard, as with most things and PvP got watered down again.

Though Yh, ZoS is not showing much love for the solo or small scale players

TheRealCherokeee3

MentalxHammer wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Can we like put a lighthouse level beam of light on this particular thread and stack it above most other threads?? I can't believe there arent tons of people flooding here addressing this. I feel like i've been the most annoying town cryer in any thread about this exact issue. It's horrific! I can manage Nerfmire. I can even manage lag and the other issues/changes ZOS has thrown us. But...to lowkey programmer speak block cancel away is just game breaking for me...and I havent used the term in any other thing ZOS ever did.

I uninstalled because of it. Many players have made it clear that if they ruin ani cancelling than that would be the last straw. Very bad move zos.

Sigh, yeah man a few hard core and very good guildies of mine have done likewise. Thing is we've said this for a long while now...which is why I think they had ole Gilliam post a video and word things in a technical way to sound as if they weren't doing exactly what they just did lol. There is alot to do in this game and I don't see myself quitting over this. BUT it does mean I can't really take it seriously or have the same level of anticipation and fun I once did by them effectively removing the competitive aspect of combat:/ Frankly after seeing class reps reactions...I don't think even a mass exodus would truly cause them to redirect this direction they're taking the game. It's a sad decline. I wish you well in your other games!

AMeanOne

I was testing this on ps4 and even though the block animation wasn't coming up in time to block a hit when block canceling, the damage was still blocked. YMMV

AMeanOne

Not being able to just cancel the animation feels like the games stuck on slow though.

xXMeowMeowXx

AMeanOne wrote: »

Not being able to just cancel the animation feels like the games stuck on slow though.

Very True

TheRealCherokeee3

AMeanOne wrote: »

I was testing this on ps4 and even though the block animation wasn't coming up in time to block a hit when block canceling, the damage was still blocked. YMMV

I think that was the indirect jist of Gilliams point. If I had to choose between an invisible result only learned after communal testing with a still forced full animation on a skill...or the old way of having that same resulting block but being able to quickly cancel a skill simultaneously and move right to my next skill, I'd rather have the old way honestly.
Besides ani canceling to me was never focused on block mitigation first, and abilities second. It was a fast succession of the use of skills plus the bonus of blocking. If your standing still or slightly moving while attacking a stationary enemy, this change isn't too bad. But, if your fighting in a highly mobile fight be it in an intensive trial or in a PvP fight, you quickly notice how needed this old play style is. I wrote about this in a post and I agree that...kind of, you can block cancel a skill. But it's simply not useful currently.
I'll give an real world example: In times past I would approach a keep resource. I would toss a dot on a mender, and quickly activate a buff, block cancel it, then activate my ward(s) ani cancel and streak through and bar swap to burn down the guards. It all happened a second per action because ani cancel stopped the animation and let me continue to that next skill (fairly) seamlessly. Because I could throw up my buffs and defense that quick, I often could absorb incoming damage and be freed up to attack. Now post update: I approach a resource toss a dot hit my buff (full animation which demands the full length) then activate my wards (which if im too fast in hitting the next button after the first buff, causes a slight half second delay) then hit streak to rush through the guards (which also has a very slight delay if hit too quickly after activating my wards) then barswap which is still perfectly responsive. By now because of those tiny delays, i've already had my wards burned off and have to go into defensive before I can attack. I also have to throw up a heal since my health was hit from lowered wards, reapply defenses and then try to attack again. By now, with the old ani cancel method, I would have easy burned the guards down, casually buffed back up, and wait for the flag to flip. But with these changes i'm now still fighting not just the guards but my own slow and at times unresponsive input because the programming is insistent on the animation duration in full between each skill. And this is versus simple NPC guards with a fairly static attack mechanic. I wont even approach the topic of struggling to fight a dynamic human enemy. Id say in fact the only reason fighting others in Cyro right now happens is because they too are facing these issues, stamina players can mitigate a bit better and afford slower pace and ball groups help mitigate the slow down by just mowing others down via sheer numbers. Like I said in my post about combat changes elsewhere, I'm not claiming mastery over game play. I'm also not arguing over technical speak on the programming or how the math works out on the server or client side ect. What I am addressing is cold hard raw experiential game play that I, my skilled guildmates and indeed other seasoned players in the forums have faced and lost interest in the game over. Ani cancel isnt a skill to brag over or lord over pleebs with (though admittedly its been used as such). For me, it was the most effective means to fight a slow original design...and succeed in hard mode PvE content...that I believe was indirectly designed off players who ani canceled rather than performed off "base" game play style. So when people say it was watered down, and solo play was hurt, this is why in my mind. It's not impossible to play. It's just....clunky now and not as fun as it was...AND it was changed in my mind in a rather dismissive and shady way.