Will I nerf myself too much with magicka sword shield necromancer?

mikejezz

I know it seems silly to use a melee weapon as a caster, but I just have a thing for an evil plate wielder in sword and shield.

Obviously, at lower levels I will run out of magicka fast, but with enough champion skill points etc, is it viable running around with a sword and shield as a necromancer? I mean my second weapon could be a staff to restore magicka.

Noxavian

mikejezz wrote: »

I know it seems silly to use a melee weapon as a caster, but I just have a thing for an evil plate wielder in sword and shield.

Obviously, at lower levels I will run out of magicka fast, but with enough champion skill points etc, is it viable running around with a sword and shield as a necromancer? I mean my second weapon could be a staff to restore magicka.

Why don't you just play a stam necro...? They're one of the only classes with enough stam morphs to make stam pretty viable.

Serious question. If you're not using Magicka's main weapon on a class that has the option to go both ways, why not just build for stam or use a staff?

Varana

Depends on what content you want to do.
Yes, you'll gimp yourself severely - not only with sustain (there are ways around that) but sword&shield is also a somewhat inferior option for damage among the weapon skills, and your attacks scale off your highest resource - meaning you would need either high stamina to deal good damage with sword&shield but sacrifice damage with your staff, or put points into magicka and have the same effect the other way around. Hybrid characters aren't good in ESO.
But it will be totally sufficient for overland and quest content, and if done right, also for normal dungeons. If that's what you're doing, go ahead.
That said, why not make an entirely stamina-based necromancer? That's a very viable thing and one of the best damage dealers in the game right now - not with a sword&shield, of course, but those will still be good for most content in the game.

mikejezz

If my abilities mainly are stamina, can I still use some magicka abilities or is it stam only or magicka only?

Thats a little what I hate about this game

dlrgames

Just be a necro tank

Cavedog

I'm not sure what the meta in PvP is for mag necro, but lots of mag toons put s/b on one bar for the extra defense....then run a full bar of class skills usually. They just get the extra armor from the shield while on that bar. Mag DK's almost always do this it seems.

Carespanker

You just want to be a necro from diablo, don't you? lol

mikejezz wrote: »

If my abilities mainly are stamina, can I still use some magicka abilities or is it stam only or magicka only?

Thats a little what I hate about this game

Regardless, you can pick and choose whatever mag or stam abilities you want, but its up to you to make it work. Thats the joys of theory crafting.

Royaji

In PvE, unless you are going to play as a tank, you'll gimp yourself quite a bit with sword and shield on any class. It will be pretty severe on magicka and not as bad on stamina. For PvP you can make sword and shield work on any class.

If its primarily about the visuals just play a stamina necromancer. Necromancer's stamina abilities look like spells too.

And in case you are only interested in solo overworld exploration and flower picking, feel free to go nuts and do whatever you want. Anything will be good enough for this level of content.

mikejezz

I am going pve only, and planning on just doing world stuff and dungeons.

I think staffs looks pretty boring in eso, and I like looking tanking with skulls and a shield and a sword but still cast Magick stuff. I can see that there's really many abilities that can't be changed to stamina

Carespanker

mikejezz wrote: »

I am going pve only, and planning on just doing world stuff and dungeons.

I think staffs looks pretty boring in eso, and I like looking tanking with skulls and a shield and a sword but still cast Magick stuff. I can see that there's really many abilities that can't be changed to stamina

Then be a tank, they generally hybrid to get the most out of their class. Necromancer tanks, in particular, are currently favored for the number of damage buffs they can give their group.

TheShadowScout

mikejezz wrote: »

Will I nerf myself too much with magicka sword shield necromancer?

In one word - Yes.

Sorta.

It is a little better when you add heavy armor into the mix, but if you go magica, your sword and shield will be very underwhjelming in damage output, and you will run out of attack resource pretty quick.

I mean, you -can- go with a staff as second weapon, use that for attacking, and switch to S&B only when tanking... but its still a suboptimal setup. (and I have several hybrid characters I made just to see how it goes... it is painful when you compare them to the more effective builds)

On the other hand, if you DO go actually "hybrid", your character will be suboptimal, yes, but its still enough to get through all the storyline questing, and the fights actually feel more interesting exactly -because- you don't burn down -everything- as soon as you attack... and with a hybrid setup, you have at least enough basic stamina to use your S&B right.

Also, you CAN always give it a try, and respec later on if you find it not to your liking. Its not that difficult to redo attributes and/or skills... at worst, you would have to grind up a new weapon skill line, and that is fun all by itself...

...

...that having been said... it -would- be better to have more options instead.

mikejezz wrote: »

I think staffs looks pretty boring in eso...

...especially once you have played them in any flavor on your other characters.
And that is why it would be a very good thing if ZOS gave us more weapon skills to play with someday soon...
But... been there, posted that: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1

WrathOfInnos

If you want to do Sword and Shield front bar and Destruction Staff back bar you can definite make it work for solo content. Necromancers are forced into melee range to get the most out of Blastbones anyway, and they already have a class spammable with Skull, so no Destruction skills are used on the front bar.

If you try to take that build into any group content people are going to give you a hard time. It’s probably only 10-15% DPS loss (from losing Destruction Staff Light Attacks and passives), but the assumption is that anyone using a Sword and Shield as a damage dealer is clueless about game mechanics, and likely to steal taunt away from the tank.

That being said you could always play a Necro tank. Sword and Shield front bar, with Lightning or Frost Staff on back, is the best setup for tanking.

Langdon64

Carespanker wrote: »

You just want to be a necro from diablo, don't you? lol

mikejezz wrote: »

If my abilities mainly are stamina, can I still use some magicka abilities or is it stam only or magicka only?

Thats a little what I hate about this game

Regardless, you can pick and choose whatever mag or stam abilities you want, but its up to you to make it work. Thats the joys of theory crafting.

This. I run a sword and board magsorc because that's the roleplay I want. I play around with abilities and make it work in overland/PVE content. PvP, well, I'll wait and see...just try different skill lines.

Thokri

It is fine, play how you want as long you stay out of normal DLC dungeons and all veteran dungeons/trials.

On those, only viable option is to be tank and as tank hybrid on heavy plate is mostly fine.

mikejezz

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Carespanker

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Again you can use whatever you like, no one is making you choose mag or stam, you can do both. Its up to you to make it work though.

mikejezz

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Again you can use whatever you like, no one is making you choose mag or stam, you can do both. Its up to you to make it work though.

To a certain point yes. As we talked about before, you can't go sword shield and plain Magicka.

Okay t, let me ask differently.

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

Thokri

It is fine to have one or max two magicka buff ability/long dot as stamina characters but it won't work on spammable abilities.

There are no abilities that consume both stamina and magicka. Most have morphs so you can choose between.

More important in later is on selecting same damage type abilities to use. (for example stamina uses physical, poison or disease mostly)

Ability points affect pool size and pool size affect damage output.

On my warden tank I go 15 30 19 if I remember right (It is not character I play often) on dungeons. Worked fine so far, although I very rarely play on that tank character.

However tanks main purpose is not to deal damage so on overland it is slow. Immortal but slow.

Varana

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

When we talk about "stamina builds" and "magicka builds", we talk about characters who have most of their points in that resource. In PvE, most characters put all attribute points (64 in total) into their primary resource; maybe a few into health. Because, as you said, abilities that cost magicka do more damage the higher your magicka pool is, and the same for stamina abilities and the stamina pool. So specialising into one of them is beneficial.
They still have a pool of the other resource, though (between 10-15k with food), and can use that to activate abilities that cost the other resource, or use stamina for dodging, blocking, etc. So you don't tell the game "I'm a magicka-using character!", you just spend points on magicka and use magicka morphs of skills.
That said, for overland content, you can basically do whatever you want.
For another explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYcfm1Na5so&t=2434s

For levelling and questing, I would not recommend going fully into tank. Pure tank builds do very little damage, and while they don't die, the enemy doesn't die either, so every fight will take a long time.

mikejezz

Varana wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

When we talk about "stamina builds" and "magicka builds", we talk about characters who have most of their points in that resource. In PvE, most characters put all attribute points (64 in total) into their primary resource; maybe a few into health. Because, as you said, abilities that cost magicka do more damage the higher your magicka pool is, and the same for stamina abilities and the stamina pool. So specialising into one of them is beneficial.
They still have a pool of the other resource, though (between 10-15k with food), and can use that to activate abilities that cost the other resource, or use stamina for dodging, blocking, etc. So you don't tell the game "I'm a magicka-using character!", you just spend points on magicka and use magicka morphs of skills.
That said, for overland content, you can basically do whatever you want.
For another explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYcfm1Na5so&t=2434s

For levelling and questing, I would not recommend going fully into tank. Pure tank builds do very little damage, and while they don't die, the enemy doesn't die either, so every fight will take a long time.

But I can always just swap the shield out with a sword and dual wield right?

Are there any scythe staves in eso you can møg into?

Varana

Well, yes, you can - but dual wield is a different skill line than sword&shield, so you need to activate and level the dual wield skills if you want to use two swords.
Scythe staves? In ESO, you have destruction and restoration staves, and they are meant to be used by magicka characters. That's it.

Carespanker

mikejezz wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Again you can use whatever you like, no one is making you choose mag or stam, you can do both. Its up to you to make it work though.

To a certain point yes. As we talked about before, you can't go sword shield and plain Magicka.

Okay t, let me ask differently.

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

You absolutely can go sword and shield and plain magicka though. Food, jewelry enchants, weapon enchants, sets, and abilities can all easily compensate for it- Which is what I meant by "It's up to you to make it work." Good tanks never go full one stat though, almost every tank uses mag and stamina abilities because they are needed for certain situations (or most situations if you have garbage support).

mikejezz

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Again you can use whatever you like, no one is making you choose mag or stam, you can do both. Its up to you to make it work though.

To a certain point yes. As we talked about before, you can't go sword shield and plain Magicka.

Okay t, let me ask differently.

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

You absolutely can go sword and shield and plain magicka though. Food, jewelry enchants, weapon enchants, sets, and abilities can all easily compensate for it- Which is what I meant by "It's up to you to make it work." Good tanks never go full one stat though, almost every tank uses mag and stamina abilities because they are needed for certain situations (or most situations if you have garbage support).

Ah i see. I'd it the same regarding being a dps? Using sword and shield and be able to make it work if I make it so?

Royaji

mikejezz wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Again you can use whatever you like, no one is making you choose mag or stam, you can do both. Its up to you to make it work though.

To a certain point yes. As we talked about before, you can't go sword shield and plain Magicka.

Okay t, let me ask differently.

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

You absolutely can go sword and shield and plain magicka though. Food, jewelry enchants, weapon enchants, sets, and abilities can all easily compensate for it- Which is what I meant by "It's up to you to make it work." Good tanks never go full one stat though, almost every tank uses mag and stamina abilities because they are needed for certain situations (or most situations if you have garbage support).

Ah i see. I'd it the same regarding being a dps? Using sword and shield and be able to make it work if I make it so?

You can kinda-sorta make it work. A DD with sword and shield will never get even close to competitve level. You can technically make a viable stamDD with sword and shield. Although I doubt it will be possible to be even close to viable (in my opinion, your mileage and mileage of your group may vary) as a magDD with sword and shield.

What you will definitely encounter in group content as a sword and shiled DD is a giant social acceptance wall. You will be kicked out of random groups immediately after they see your weapons. You will get laughed at in any kind of more serious guild. It's not something an average player will accept.

You can find people who are fine with off-the-beaten-road builds and who will gladly take you in but it will have to be something you conciously and deliberately look for.

typo

Carespanker

mikejezz wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

Ok, so I got a few new questions.

If I convert to stamina, does that mean that I ain't gonna use any magicka abilities at all? There are some few that I like, that can't be morphed to magicka.

That means I only use stamina, for both sprinting and abilities, and not magicka at all, or am i missing something?

Again you can use whatever you like, no one is making you choose mag or stam, you can do both. Its up to you to make it work though.

To a certain point yes. As we talked about before, you can't go sword shield and plain Magicka.

Okay t, let me ask differently.

If I go stamina build, does that mean I should ignore my Magicka pool?

Also, let's say if I spent most points in stamina, doesn't that mean if I have an ability that costs stamina and Magicka, the stamina one does more damage? Or is Magicka and stamina just spending pool?

You absolutely can go sword and shield and plain magicka though. Food, jewelry enchants, weapon enchants, sets, and abilities can all easily compensate for it- Which is what I meant by "It's up to you to make it work." Good tanks never go full one stat though, almost every tank uses mag and stamina abilities because they are needed for certain situations (or most situations if you have garbage support).

Ah i see. I'd it the same regarding being a dps? Using sword and shield and be able to make it work if I make it so?

Ok let me explain. You can play however you want, but there are certain thresholds your role has to fill to "pull its weight" in pve. For tanks their threshold is to hold agro, not die, and give buffs/debuffs. For healers its to keep people from dying, keep yourself from dying, and do whatever you need to to make sure your group gets through the dungeon (weather that be to some dps, give more buffs/shields, or to even guard that one moron who keeps standing in fire-). And for DPS their job is the hardest, which is to do the most amount of dps they can as fast as they can, while avoiding mechanics (I say hardest because it requires the most skill in the game over tanking and healing, which is why most dps quit being dps once they get to veteran content due to not being able to get their desired threshold).

That being said, I can't with a straight face tell you that SNB can work for dps... like ever lol. Its strictly a survivability thing used for supports like tanks and healers.

FrancisCrawford

mikejezz wrote: »

I know it seems silly to use a melee weapon as a caster, but I just have a thing for an evil plate wielder in sword and shield.

Obviously, at lower levels I will run out of magicka fast, but with enough champion skill points etc, is it viable running around with a sword and shield as a necromancer? I mean my second weapon could be a staff to restore magicka.

Go stamina, including the stamina morphs of various skills, and use some magicka "utility" skills as well. You will then be able to reasonably use, for example:

• Almost all necromancer skills (there are a couple of exceptions in the Living Death skill line).
• Skills from the four stamina weapon lines.
• Fighters Guild skills.
• Some Undaunted Guild skills.
• Some Psijic Guild skills.
• Some Alliance War skills (incuding Vigor!).
• Soul Trap.

thissocalledflower

Varana wrote: »

Depends on what content you want to do.
Yes, you'll gimp yourself severely - not only with sustain (there are ways around that) but sword&shield is also a somewhat inferior option for damage among the weapon skills, and your attacks scale off your highest resource - meaning you would need either high stamina to deal good damage with sword&shield but sacrifice damage with your staff, or put points into magicka and have the same effect the other way around. Hybrid characters aren't good in ESO.
But it will be totally sufficient for overland and quest content, and if done right, also for normal dungeons. If that's what you're doing, go ahead.
That said, why not make an entirely stamina-based necromancer? That's a very viable thing and one of the best damage dealers in the game right now - not with a sword&shield, of course, but those will still be good for most content in the game.

pelenial's aptititude anyone?

thissocalledflower

Also why do you want sword and board? I mean you can be a majicka tank for sure if you want to but i don't think in that case you would want sword and board though i guess you could still use it. But for magicka dps i have a hard time understanding the attraction? Is it just that you seem to be dying a lot as a magicka sorc? Because i tend to use, eso on lower levels a mtal chest piece, and a leather leg piece and the other 5 light armors. And if you are having not enough health even thaough you are using the proper food then you could do two things, use one or two health glyphs on chest and legs for example... or use the mundus stone to buff your health a bit more OR you could do both of those things IF you really needed it. AND if that still didnt do it for you then play an orc magicka sorc or maybe a nord as they have good health bonuses.

bmnoble

Have a crafter make you a set of:

Pelinal's Aptitude

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

Pair it with a damage set or a sustain of your choosing, won't be great for end game but for general overland stuff it will be fine and you can have it made for you in training gear since you mentioned low level.

Should be easy to pair with:

Law of Julianos

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 299 Spell Damage.

or if you having sustain problems

Armor of the Seducer

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) Reduces the cost of your Magicka abilities by 10%.

mikejezz

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

I know it seems silly to use a melee weapon as a caster, but I just have a thing for an evil plate wielder in sword and shield.

Obviously, at lower levels I will run out of magicka fast, but with enough champion skill points etc, is it viable running around with a sword and shield as a necromancer? I mean my second weapon could be a staff to restore magicka.

Go stamina, including the stamina morphs of various skills, and use some magicka "utility" skills as well. You will then be able to reasonably use, for example:

• Almost all necromancer skills (there are a couple of exceptions in the Living Death skill line).
• Skills from the four stamina weapon lines.
• Fighters Guild skills.
• Some Undaunted Guild skills.
• Some Psijic Guild skills.
• Some Alliance War skills (incuding Vigor!).
• Soul Trap.

I don't really like skills that's available to all classes. I want to make my classes feel unique.

Also, it is for pure cosmetic look I wanna run around with a shield.

Kadoin

Be what you wanna be...be what you always wanted to be!