Can't they just put an achievement requirement to que Vet and add arenas and trials to a que?

ck37090

Maybe its me, maybe its the guilds I chose, maybe its the times I play, maybe its the time commitment (or lack of) I can commit, but I have a life and i'm sure like many people, can't schedule my life around playing a game. I like this game very much and while some of the guilds i'm in schedule regular events and such, i'm not about to adjust my life in order to make those things. Dungeons are nice because I can log on and que up for them if I want to do them. Is it unreasonable to have the ability to do that for arenas and trials? Can't they just set higher limitations on them? Ie. set CP requirement for them and for Vet versions maybe have the need to have the achievement in order to que up for them? Obviouisly it still wouldn't be perfect but overall would give a fair basis (and you still have the ability to boot people if they weren't effective/paid for their achivement). Anyways, I know the ability to que for these has been suggested before, but I don't think I have seen an acievement requirement be suggested to que for vet trials/arenas.

Katahdin

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

ck37090

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

TheRealCherokeee3

You can get away with alot of cheesy mistakes in even many vet dungeons. But trials are another story. Longer, more mechanics heavy more often than not. And as far as achievement requirements...There's plenty out there that chill out in Craglorn ask for 1mil + carries while they sit back and microwave food and get the achieve. Not sure you'd want tourists in a difficult trial. (Just saw you addressed that lol, but still then having to sift through who is legit or not would be equally as daunting and time consuming). It's a good sentiment as far as inclusivity, but I think it's still best to join a reliable guild that runs them on the reg.

DarkShadowFax

You can be max CP and still drop dead the moment a mob looks at you funny. You can also be max CP and hit like a wet noodle. At the same time, I've seen low-CP people hilariously outdps and outsurvive max CP players. Having a CP requirement as one of the only checkpoints for a trial finder is neither fair to qualified low-CP players nor to actual qualified players who then have to deal with a clueless monkey in their group.

In a time where skin and achievement carries are being advertised in just about every zone, just merely having the achievement will not suffice either. I have recently healed a trial with someone who had a fancy DLC trial skin which they very evidently got carried through. I might as well have solo healed that trial.

Typically, the more advanced a trial becomes, the more pre-trial planning happens between group members. Who is assigned xyz roles, who wears what sets, who does callouts. In a dungeon finder you already have issues convincing people to join some sort of voice comms for vDLC HMs, let alone trying to convince 11 other people to get on voice for a trial.

I'm sorry, but outside of vet Crags doing any other vet trials with a trial finder is just asking for a shitshow.

ck37090

what about just adding the arenas to a que under the same type of guidelines?

karekiz

Normal ques would be fine. I would like them for transmute farming. Other than that for vet that might be too much.

Agenericname

ck37090 wrote: »

what about just adding the arenas to a que under the same type of guidelines?

Suggesting PUGing vBRP sounds a lot better than actually PUGing vBRP.

Donny_Vito

ck37090 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

So you're saying that you'd only be able to queue for X vet Trial/Arena once you have the achievement given for beating that Trial/Arena on vet?

ck37090

Agenericname wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

what about just adding the arenas to a que under the same type of guidelines?

Suggesting PUGing vBRP sounds a lot better than actually PUGing vBRP.

again in order to que for vBRP you would need have the vet BRP achievement. Yes, obviously people can get carried on that too, but with only a 4 man group it would be easy enough to see and boot the person.

ck37090

Donny_Vito wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

So you're saying that you'd only be able to queue for X vet Trial/Arena once you have the achievement given for beating that Trial/Arena on vet?

yes, that is what i was suggesting

MartiniDaniels

You can complete trial as dps and then went with same toon as tank and that will be a disaster for all others. I joined many vSS pug "farm runs" with achievement check... it was simply awful, in majority of cases tanks are dying on cooldown, group dps is non-existent and you can't get to first boss. But everyone has achievement printed in chat.

For Arenas I think this might work though, because it is just a 4 man and everything will be clear after first pulls.

FierceSam

ck37090 wrote: »

Maybe its me, maybe its the guilds I chose, maybe its the times I play, maybe its the time commitment (or lack of) I can commit, but I have a life and i'm sure like many people, can't schedule my life around playing a game. I like this game very much and while some of the guilds i'm in schedule regular events and such, i'm not about to adjust my life in order to make those things. Dungeons are nice because I can log on and que up for them if I want to do them. Is it unreasonable to have the ability to do that for arenas and trials? Can't they just set higher limitations on them? Ie. set CP requirement for them and for Vet versions maybe have the need to have the achievement in order to que up for them? Obviouisly it still wouldn't be perfect but overall would give a fair basis (and you still have the ability to boot people if they weren't effective/paid for their achivement). Anyways, I know the ability to que for these has been suggested before, but I don't think I have seen an acievement requirement be suggested to que for vet trials/arenas.

You want things organised to meet your hectic schedule? Why don’t you just do it yourself rather than wanting ZOS to be your mum?

Organise a trial, arena or dungeon run yourself. It’s fun and rewarding and you can determine who you play with and when.

Best thing about it, there’s no way ZOS’s programming can mess it up. You’re in total control.

You might find something like esoraidplanner.com might help you

AlnilamE

ck37090 wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

So you're saying that you'd only be able to queue for X vet Trial/Arena once you have the achievement given for beating that Trial/Arena on vet?

yes, that is what i was suggesting

And how does a person go about getting the achievement in vet if they can't queue for vet?

Danksta

.

AlnilamE wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

So you're saying that you'd only be able to queue for X vet Trial/Arena once you have the achievement given for beating that Trial/Arena on vet?

yes, that is what i was suggesting

And how does a person go about getting the achievement in vet if they can't queue for vet?

The same way you get it now?

Agenericname

ck37090 wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

what about just adding the arenas to a que under the same type of guidelines?

Suggesting PUGing vBRP sounds a lot better than actually PUGing vBRP.

again in order to que for vBRP you would need have the vet BRP achievement. Yes, obviously people can get carried on that too, but with only a 4 man group it would be easy enough to see and boot the person.

Arenas require more coordination that most dungeons, even the vet DLCs. VDSA is older and much easier to get through, but it still poses problems for PUGs, not to mention the different strategies used. When the healer shows to the final boss in vDSA without a taunt, are they going to be booted?

The only downside I could ever see to adding them would be the stream of complaint that would hit the forums shortly after. Many would no doubt as for nerfs. As long as ZOS didn't take them seriously I'd have no issue with arenas in the RDF at all, I just wouldn't use it.

redspecter23

Until achievements are account wide, I don't see this as a solution. It creates just as many problems as it might actually solve. So I have a vSS completion on my Magplar, but I can't queue on any other toons until I get the achievement on them? Every new toon I roll then has another checklist of things to do before I can queue.

Also, none of that matters much as hard vet content isn't designed for puglets. People thinking that a queue will somehow fill the hard trials with capable people are fooling themselves.

For normal trials and arenas, sure. You might get something there, but even those populate with enough potatoes to fail them at times and an achievement there won't help anything as people get carried in normals constantly. More often than they realize.

AndyMac

Pugging vet DLC trials whether from zone or the finder seems like a good way to waste time and pots to me.

My trial guild runs vSS farms on the reg and they set/ change times to ensure that players in different time zones can run the trial at a reasonable hour for us all. So we all get our weekly opportunity to get the perfected gear.

That said, they have reqs for the runs which ensures that the raid only has players who have demonstrated through dummy parses or other content that they have what it takes. The reqs aren’t that high - 60k DPS gets you a guaranteed slot - 55k puts you on the fill list - very easy.

Also the culture in the guild is about helping other players get the perfected gear they want for no cost - good luck finding that in a pug if they somehow clear.

Tbh anything else is just a waste of time.

thomasadinkerke

DarkShadowFax wrote: »

You can be max CP and still drop dead the moment a mob looks at you funny. You can also be max CP and hit like a wet noodle. At the same time, I've seen low-CP people hilariously outdps and outsurvive max CP players. Having a CP requirement as one of the only checkpoints for a trial finder is neither fair to qualified low-CP players nor to actual qualified players who then have to deal with a clueless monkey in their group.

In a time where skin and achievement carries are being advertised in just about every zone, just merely having the achievement will not suffice either. I have recently healed a trial with someone who had a fancy DLC trial skin which they very evidently got carried through. I might as well have solo healed that trial.

Typically, the more advanced a trial becomes, the more pre-trial planning happens between group members. Who is assigned xyz roles, who wears what sets, who does callouts. In a dungeon finder you already have issues convincing people to join some sort of voice comms for vDLC HMs, let alone trying to convince 11 other people to get on voice for a trial.

I'm sorry, but outside of vet Crags doing any other vet trials with a trial finder is just asking for a shitshow.

Max CP is generally a sign of skill and long playtime but there are still people who are high cp who only farm skyreach and do vet trials or there are low cp people who do tons of trials but almost no activities next to that so they'll be doing tons of trials and stay lower end cp.

hafgood

thomasadinkerke wrote: »

Max CP is generally a sign of skill and long playtime but there are still people who are high cp who only farm skyreach and do vet trials or there are low cp people who do tons of trials but almost no activities next to that so they'll be doing tons of trials and stay lower end cp.

Max CP is not a sign of skill at all. It just means they have played the game long enough to get there. I know plenty who have no rotation and just use light attacks and heavy attacks.

As for a PUG queue for trials? No ta. Tjere are discords and guilds you can join that will get you what you want, and in a far better way

houndandhorseb16_ESO

Hell I would just like to see a choice on regular dungeons vrs DLC dungeons when doing random. I have seen groups get mad at pugs that load into a DLC dungeon on a random. Well these people can’t do the daily random without the DLC dungeons being in the mix. I know they can choose specific dungeons but then I don’t think it counts toward daily random anymore. Or does it?

Rampeal

No because you would have parse obsessed DPS queuing in Tank and Heal roles and no one would use it and just go back to Craglorn and Pug it

kargen27

ck37090 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

Sounds like something we would read about in Catch 22. If this were put in place it would take away one way for players to get the achievement. Players that have the same problems listed in the OP would find there are little to no pugs being formed outside of the queue and they would not be allowed in the queue. Not good for players that do not belong to a trial guild.

Other problem is group dynamic. How many healers/tanks are going to be required?

Grianasteri

12 people queueing for a trial seems like a recipe for disaster.

Fake haelz, tanks, etc could potentially ruin runs for lots of folk, which is already an issue in 4 person content.

Xuhora

its far less frustrating to never be able to join a vet trial run than to actually PUG a vet trial and realize that you will never beat it. It would lead to nerf cries, that we allready have about every other DLC dungeon because PUGs bite out their teeth.

If ZOS would implement that feature, they would have to ensure that the people participating in it have a chance of success. (not doing that leads to bad revenue) and i am for sure in the camp of leaving the difficulty of trials where it is now. so no to a random trial finder from my side

VoidCommander

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

Thats probably because of the lack of convenient exposure to the trial. I can think of a few dungeons where the mechanics would always get the better of players consistently, but over time more and more players became familiar with the mechanics to the point that you’d be very unlucky to find more than 1 group member unfamiliar with the mechanics (pugging it of course).

If players had been able to queue for their vmol runs since its release, it would probably run similarly to cloudrest or sunspire normal runs.

AyaDark

ck37090 wrote: »

Maybe its me, maybe its the guilds I chose, maybe its the times I play, maybe its the time commitment (or lack of) I can commit, but I have a life and i'm sure like many people, can't schedule my life around playing a game. I like this game very much and while some of the guilds i'm in schedule regular events and such, i'm not about to adjust my life in order to make those things. Dungeons are nice because I can log on and que up for them if I want to do them. Is it unreasonable to have the ability to do that for arenas and trials? Can't they just set higher limitations on them? Ie. set CP requirement for them and for Vet versions maybe have the need to have the achievement in order to que up for them? Obviouisly it still wouldn't be perfect but overall would give a fair basis (and you still have the ability to boot people if they weren't effective/paid for their achivement). Anyways, I know the ability to que for these has been suggested before, but I don't think I have seen an acievement requirement be suggested to que for vet trials/arenas.

Achivments do not show any skills you have.

As example i was not taken to some content i can solo, because i have not got enough skill to find this stupid achivment in list, becouse i do not care about them at all.

The same way the one who will go with me, if i solo it get achivment, even if he will be all the way dead.

Good players do not care about achivments. They care about peoples play, that they can show and skill they have.

Not some achivment that show nothing.

ck37090

not sure why this year old thread got necro'd back to life...honestly, I don't see why anyone would care if such a system was implemented because you don't have to use it, so it doesn't effect you...one thing I can't get over about this community is the attitude of just not wanting people to have something even if it doesn't effect you in the least, but I guess that is consistant with today's society...with that said, I think kargen does make a good point, that tank/healer requirements are dynamic with trials and it would make it hard to form (for vet trials) and a couple/few encounters even on normal can be done with single or multiple tanks...anyways, this was a dead year old thread.../shrug

Eedat

AlnilamE wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Have you ever tried to pug VMOL ?

Most organized groups can't get past the twins on normal the first time

i haven't but the reason I suggested that in order to que for it you would already need to have the vet vmol achiement. I realize people do pay for the achievement but it would still give an overall solid basis for a group (and obviously nobody has to use it).

So you're saying that you'd only be able to queue for X vet Trial/Arena once you have the achievement given for beating that Trial/Arena on vet?

yes, that is what i was suggesting

And how does a person go about getting the achievement in vet if they can't queue for vet?

By joining a group that is willing to take first timers outside of group finder.

Thechuckage

Looking at the history of the groupfinder, I would not touch this with a stolen 10 foot pole

Brenticus12

No thanks. Not only have we seen what's happened in WoW with raid finder, we can see how it works out in ESO itself by just looking at group finder for dungeons. ***'s bad, toxic and would be even worse with a trial finder system since Trials require faaaaar more coordination.