Question for Wardens

IronWooshu

What do you Wardens use as a spammable AOE skill. Coming from playing Templar and Dragonknight when doing big pulls in Skyreach I would use Jabs to obliterate giant pulls and on my DK I would use Draw Essence which IMO is better than jabs since it heals and restores magicka but now I am making a Warden and I am failing to see how to make this class work for world bosses like the Spider in Stormhaven where she spawns massive adds. Without an AOE spammable to damage and heal on a boss like that who spawns lots of adds it becomes harder to solo.

What do you Wardens use?

LeHarrt91

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

IronWooshu

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

That wont work running Skyreach doing pulls, by the time the 3 seconds hits your dead and it wont kill them in one so you have to rely on tons of healing probably draining magicka and a full 6 seconds to do another burst to kill the 100's of skeletons.

Same applies to bosses. The gargoyle in Rivenspire, how do you put down his adds plus keep damage on him with shalks? You would have to spam block to avoid all the uppercuts and those adds are elites. It would take multiple shalks to take them down while avoiding the gargoyles scream stun.

In that fight with a Dk to solo you can literally run while spamming draw essence to deal damage, heal and return cost of skill and its instant.

LeHarrt91

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

That wont work running Skyreach doing pulls, by the time the 3 seconds hits your dead and it wont kill them in one so you have to rely on tons of healing probably draining magicka and a full 6 seconds to do another burst to kill the 100's of skeletons.

Same applies to bosses. The gargoyle in Rivenspire, how do you put down his adds plus keep damage on him with shalks? You would have to spam block to avoid all the uppercuts and those adds are elites. It would take multiple shalks to take them down while avoiding the gargoyles scream stun.

In that fight with a Dk to solo you can literally run while spamming draw essence to deal damage, heal and return cost of skill and its instant.

Thats the way the Warden class is build. You lay your dots and every 3s you ise Shalk. Warden do not have an instant AoE you will need to use a weapon skill for that. But Shalk is a VERY potent skill and should be used, it reduces target resistance, heals you when it hits and grants your ultimate. If you magicka you can use Force Pulse which does deal AoE Splash damage.

IronWooshu

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

That wont work running Skyreach doing pulls, by the time the 3 seconds hits your dead and it wont kill them in one so you have to rely on tons of healing probably draining magicka and a full 6 seconds to do another burst to kill the 100's of skeletons.

Same applies to bosses. The gargoyle in Rivenspire, how do you put down his adds plus keep damage on him with shalks? You would have to spam block to avoid all the uppercuts and those adds are elites. It would take multiple shalks to take them down while avoiding the gargoyles scream stun.

In that fight with a Dk to solo you can literally run while spamming draw essence to deal damage, heal and return cost of skill and its instant.

Thats the way the Warden class is build. You lay your dots and every 3s you ise Shalk. Warden do not have an instant AoE you will need to use a weapon skill for that. But Shalk is a VERY potent skill and should be used, it reduces target resistance, heals you when it hits and grants your ultimate. If you magicka you can use Force Pulse which does deal AoE Splash damage.

I know Shalks is a good skill it's just not a good skill for the situations in which I describe, I am looking for an alternative to Draw Essence but I dont think I can get that.

I spoiled myself playing a Templar than DK first lol

LeHarrt91

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

That wont work running Skyreach doing pulls, by the time the 3 seconds hits your dead and it wont kill them in one so you have to rely on tons of healing probably draining magicka and a full 6 seconds to do another burst to kill the 100's of skeletons.

Same applies to bosses. The gargoyle in Rivenspire, how do you put down his adds plus keep damage on him with shalks? You would have to spam block to avoid all the uppercuts and those adds are elites. It would take multiple shalks to take them down while avoiding the gargoyles scream stun.

In that fight with a Dk to solo you can literally run while spamming draw essence to deal damage, heal and return cost of skill and its instant.

Thats the way the Warden class is build. You lay your dots and every 3s you ise Shalk. Warden do not have an instant AoE you will need to use a weapon skill for that. But Shalk is a VERY potent skill and should be used, it reduces target resistance, heals you when it hits and grants your ultimate. If you magicka you can use Force Pulse which does deal AoE Splash damage.

I know Shalks is a good skill it's just not a good skill for the situations in which I describe, I am looking for an alternative to Draw Essence but I dont think I can get that.

I spoiled myself playing a Templar than DK first lol

Yes it seems you may have. The only other class that have an instant AoE damage class skill that also heals is NB Sap Essence. Sorc, Warden and Necro all have Delayed AoE Burst.

But you can use the Destruction Staff skills, Force Pulse and Elemental Ring.

hackdrag0n

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

IronWooshu

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

Runefang

People saying shalks in skyreach clearly don’t know what they’re on about. Of course you cast it every 3 seconds but on the other 2 seconds you should use either Shock Clench or Force Pulse. You don’t wait around for Shalks to go off lol.

Blockade, Winters Revenge and Mystic Orb are all must casts as well before you switch using to Clench/FP.

As for the Rivenspire boss you should be relying on a self heal to keep you alive when adds are up. Living Trellis being the best self heal for Wardens generally.

Runefang

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

I recently finished soloing all WB in the base game and it was the only one I died to. It was my first time fighting it so the difficulty was unexpected but I got it second time once I swapped Rapids for a sustain skill.

bearbelly

Ugh. I need to learn how to play.

MashmalloMan

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

That wont work running Skyreach doing pulls, by the time the 3 seconds hits your dead and it wont kill them in one so you have to rely on tons of healing probably draining magicka and a full 6 seconds to do another burst to kill the 100's of skeletons.

Same applies to bosses. The gargoyle in Rivenspire, how do you put down his adds plus keep damage on him with shalks? You would have to spam block to avoid all the uppercuts and those adds are elites. It would take multiple shalks to take them down while avoiding the gargoyles scream stun.

In that fight with a Dk to solo you can literally run while spamming draw essence to deal damage, heal and return cost of skill and its instant.

Thats the way the Warden class is build. You lay your dots and every 3s you ise Shalk. Warden do not have an instant AoE you will need to use a weapon skill for that. But Shalk is a VERY potent skill and should be used, it reduces target resistance, heals you when it hits and grants your ultimate. If you magicka you can use Force Pulse which does deal AoE Splash damage.

I know Shalks is a good skill it's just not a good skill for the situations in which I describe, I am looking for an alternative to Draw Essence but I dont think I can get that.

I spoiled myself playing a Templar than DK first lol

Yes it seems you may have. The only other class that have an instant AoE damage class skill that also heals is NB Sap Essence. Sorc, Warden and Necro all have Delayed AoE Burst.

Necro has Sythe as an aoe spammable that also heals.

OP, if stamina, use DW Whirling Blades, 2H Brawler/Carve, or Bow Acid Spray/Bombard.

If magicka, use Destro Force Pulse, Shock Clench, Elemental Ring, or Shock Staff Heavy Attacks.

jircris11

IronWooshu wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Basically Shalk is the Warden AoE spammable. You activate it on cooldown. Sure its not Instant but its a great skill.

That wont work running Skyreach doing pulls, by the time the 3 seconds hits your dead and it wont kill them in one so you have to rely on tons of healing probably draining magicka and a full 6 seconds to do another burst to kill the 100's of skeletons.

Same applies to bosses. The gargoyle in Rivenspire, how do you put down his adds plus keep damage on him with shalks? You would have to spam block to avoid all the uppercuts and those adds are elites. It would take multiple shalks to take them down while avoiding the gargoyles scream stun.

In that fight with a Dk to solo you can literally run while spamming draw essence to deal damage, heal and return cost of skill and its instant.

I have no issue due to being a 2h and bow build. Aoe on the bow, bear to help tank. Shalks as I start the fight then 2h skills inbetween shalk charges.

IronWooshu

Runefang wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

I recently finished soloing all WB in the base game and it was the only one I died to. It was my first time fighting it so the difficulty was unexpected but I got it second time once I swapped Rapids for a sustain skill.

Yeah IMO it's the hardest non DLC WB. I use that WB to measure classes.

JamieAubrey

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

Where on the map is it and I'll do it on my PvP build lol

LeHarrt91

JamieAubrey wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

Where on the map is it and I'll do it on my PvP build lol

I believe its on the bottom left of the map not too far from the City.

IsharaMeradin

JamieAubrey wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

Where on the map is it and I'll do it on my PvP build lol

https://esomap.uesp.net/?centeron=Valeguard+Tower&world=Rivenspire

JamieAubrey

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

Where on the map is it and I'll do it on my PvP build lol

https://esomap.uesp.net/?centeron=Valeguard+Tower&world=Rivenspire

Wish me luck lol

IronWooshu

JamieAubrey wrote: »

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

hackdrag0n wrote: »

I guess I've just gotten used to moving while keeping my facing to the mobs so the shalks will hit them once they go off. If you just stand there like a potato while they're arming it could get messy without sufficient healing or mitigation to help keep you alive.

I would love to see a video of a warden soloing the gargoyle in Rivenspire.

Where on the map is it and I'll do it on my PvP build lol

https://esomap.uesp.net/?centeron=Valeguard+Tower&world=Rivenspire

Wish me luck lol

Curious, how did it go?

Iskiab

I was able to solo skyreach while leveling... well technically someone else was there with me, but they were low CP so not doing much.

I’m also 810CPs so things are quite a bit easier, but the same thing might work for you:

Bar setup... if I remember it right:

Bugs - blockade - Ice aoe/heal that stuns - x - netch
Bugs - ground ice aoe ability - radiating regen - x - minor protection armour buff

X were skills I wanted to level. Keep your buffs up and: 1-2-3 front bar, 1-2-3 back bar. Northern storm on CD.

If I remember right I was breaking 100k dps whenever I upgraded my sets while leveling.

Being able to spend CPs on low level alts helps so much, don’t feel bad if it doesn’t work for you. I remember when I first started with no CPs and I found some parts of the main story quest difficult, with full CPs I can light attack those same bosses down.

Tigerseye

Well, it's probably not textbook, but what I would originally do on my (DPS) Stamden (and I know you're Magicka, so this may not help too much!) and am still doing, unless/until I can figure something else out is:

1. Shalks from ranged (hit well in advance of when you need it).
2. Dot them with Growing Swarm, especially if they are tough.
3. Slow them (if not permanently immune!), periodically, with Bombard - nearest thing you have got to a bow (non ground targeted) multi-shot, as well.
4. Rinse and repeat, while you can hold them off...
5. Once they are on you, unless you are capable (and can be bothered!) to try to get range again, switch to dual wield.
6. Assuming there are still several, or more, of them alive, hit Deadly Cloak and keep it up.
7. Use Whirling Blades.
8. Heal with Soothing Spores, where necessary.

The problem with doing the latter part of this, now, is that they seem to have nerfed weapon skills in favour of class abilities.

Previously, I would do more damage in melee, with dual wield skills, than I would with bow and class abilities at ranged (which was also wrong), but now I'm pretty sure I do considerably less.

Surely they should both be equal, damage-wise?

I don't find Shalks great to use in melee range, even though that is what is advised in guides, as it does all of its damage in front of you and those pesky critters, almost invariably, refuse to stay obediently in front of you, in this game.

...and I'm saying this even as a Bosmer, who has invested heavily in dodge rolling (which can be used, fairly liberally, as a disengage).

Not only that, but Shalks has the long delay, which (although you do get somewhat used to it), makes it hard to use optimally.

As NPCs can be unpredictable and you probably can't, 100% reliably, see into the future.

Even if they mostly stay in front of you, half of them will tend to go one way and half another, meaning you rarely manage to hit all (or even most) of them, unless someone is tanking them well and/or (if you are soloing) you are at range and have a slow.

In my opinion, this is one of the issues with the class, especially if they are going to make weapon skill lines sub-optimal.

Could try swapping out Whirling Blades for Frost Cloak, for more protection (especially if the NPCs aren't dealing AOE damage), but you will obviously lose some damage, by doing that.