PVE healing still needs nerfs

Icaruzs

I'm a main healer and i still feel that even with the nerfs on healing a few patchs ago, healing is still too easy.

We just apply our grand healing, radiant rejuvenation and throw a healing orb. And if you get in trouble and your dds or tank are not in the area of these skills you can use a burst heal of your class.

What i'm trying to say is there's no healer feeling, like "lets heal the injured" or i need to maximize my Healing per second like DD's, because those 3 skills (grand,radiant and energy orb) just provide a burst of healing that you dont have to worry about the health of your group, and only worry about keeping buffs and debuffs up. (combat prayer, minor vun and etc)

Healing still overpowered (and i'm a main healer ) right know, and the proof is that you can run a vet dlc dungeon HM with 3 dd's, just sloting a healing skill, like echoing vigor, grand healing, radiant regenaration in each dps and you will be more than fine (and have a higher dps overall)

We need a heal nerf, because is not even fun to heal anymore, and in some content we are not even required to be there.

@edit forgot to metion that if you are going to the 3 DD's and one tank set up, your tank can use energy orb for your's DD which is another burst heal and also recover their resources.

Iskiab

Issue is moreso that vigor and self heals are OP, not healing others.

stpdmonkey

Healing is not overpowered. Sure for most dungeon hard modes and such it can seem that way. But when you get into the new dlc dungeons or into trials it is definately not overpowered. 3 skills will not cut it if you want to keep everyone alive. If heals are nerfed anymore there will be achievements that are not accomplished.

SydneyGrey

NO
No more nerfs.
You're going to destroy the game for solo players.

dazee

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Healing is not overpowered. Sure for most dungeon hard modes and such it can seem that way. But when you get into the new dlc dungeons or into trials it is definately not overpowered. 3 skills will not cut it if you want to keep everyone alive. If heals are nerfed anymore there will be achievements that are not accomplished.

1000x this. go do vFV as healer with a group of skilled, well built, but still first time first timers. it will be hell, guaranteed. even if you spam healing springs- which as healer I've never done. at most i pop it a couple times now and then- why would I spam it? its not actually that good.

Nord_Raseri

SydneyGrey wrote: »

NO
No more nerfs.

This.

Kurat

OP, if you find healing too easy or not required at all in some groups, then do dps. Healers are not just for healing. Is your combat prayer uptime 100%? Are you throwing enough shards/orbs? Other class specific buffs? Are you using sets that actually help current group etc.
If you are perfect and still find it too easy or boring then maybe try different role. Dont ask for nerfs.

UntilValhalla13

How's your experience with healing dlc trial hard modes? Just wondering...

The Uninvited

Let it be noted that it's not the PVP community asking for nerfs here!

AcadianPaladin

The Uninvited wrote: »

Let it be noted that it's not the PVP community asking for nerfs here!

Neither is it the PvE community. Simply one individual who is clearly in a serious minority among us PvE healers.

I quit healing for a few months after the last round of healing nerfs (healing springs and regen). If I quit healing again it will be permanent.

GlorphNoldorin

Heal with no gear on then

thadjarvis

The past few DLC's ZoS has done a good job IMO building healer usefulness into most of the recent content:

Not as much as others but arguably Frostvault HM and DoM (it actually does have a healer mechanic early but can be ignored)

Moongrave Fane has multiple fights including HM designed to have a healer. The ND/SR/HM video I've seen uses a healer.

Icereach HM is much easier with a healer. If going for ND/SR/HM likely better off taking healer that specs a couple extra damage skills early for speed and shifts to more healing focused for the HM to make the ND less dicey. Ie, healer likely best.

Sunspire: each dragon has a healer specific mechanic and Lokk specifically healing is quite unique

Blackrose Prison: most take a healer for clear or unchained


Why so limited? The few places healers are really needed are beyond the desire or capability of a large swath of the playbase.

Because of the solo ability to self-heal/shield and that most incoming damage can be avoided in ESO due to it's active gameplay (dodge/block/sidestep) the only way to make healers really valuable in content is to add healing mechanics and lots of hard to avoid DoTs/frequent damage.

They are doing that with the last 4 patches with new instances to some degree, but the ability to dodge/block/shield/self-heal will never go away as it's a core part of the unique ESO gaming experience.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Who needs healers anyways? Grab a tank with 3 DPS, complete 99% of content quickly!. DPS slot a self heal and don’t stand in red. Tank slot some support skills on back bar for synergies. Healers are over rated.

I’m mostly kidding, Please don’t kill me hahahaha!

Danksta

No point in bring a healer if the only thing that'll kill you is a one shot.

dazee

Healers in modern games like ESO should -NOT- be needed and I say this as someone who mains healer for vet content.

They should be highly desired for what they bring to the table- which should not just be healing and buffs, but dps as well.

in a well balanced game the healers and tanks should be able to put out about 40-50% the dps of the dps.

Nevasca

Are you talking about proactive healing vs reactionary healing? As in, Healing over time (Springs, orbs, etc) vs burst heals (mushrooms, combat prayer, bol)? If so I can see your point. HoTs are strong, but IMO that leads to more interesting gameplay. Instead of spamming your healing skills you actually spend more time managing buffs and debuff which is a lot more interesting than just healing.

Having no HoTS (or them being so weak that's not worth using) would be the equivalent of tank only taunting and blocking or DPS using only spammables and no dots or utility skills. This would make the game bland, I and a lot of player like the flexibility of gameplay we have atm.

Saying healing is easy depends on the context too. If you are healing vet Wayrest, ritual will probably heal every damage needed and that's more a problem with the content itself, not healing. Now, if you're healing vAS+2, vCR+3, vBRP and so on I honestly doubt healing is "easy".

Also, when I say healing, I don't mean strictly healing. Healers should be buffing and debuffing, maintaing minor berserk with combat prayer, maintaing minor magickasteal, elemental blockade for your enchant (usually crusher or weakning), making sure you proc Martial Knowledge, using potl or fetcher on cd for minor frac/vul, there's so much to do, and you can thank to your HoTS, so you are not stuck using only healing abilities.

thadjarvis

^^ditto

I barely ever heal, but when I do I feel with everything that a healer can do there is often not enough GCD's to get it all done; if it is too easy I make it a problem by adding damage. Tanks and DD's don't have that issue. As a healer we constantly are triaging. But as @Littlebluelizard points out the importance for healers isn't all that high unless you are in difficult content (note for self and group; so healing beginners through say a vet 2 dungeon could be rather dynamic).

Basically, to enjoy complex healing more I'd recommend spending more time in content that is close to the edge of your maximum difficulty.

Noctus

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Healing is not overpowered. Sure for most dungeon hard modes and such it can seem that way. But when you get into the new dlc dungeons or into trials it is definately not overpowered. 3 skills will not cut it if you want to keep everyone alive. If heals are nerfed anymore there will be achievements that are not accomplished.

im tanking all dlc dungeons with 3 dd lol. some ppl even do veteran blackrose prison with 1 tank 3 dps. thats how little u need dedicated healers right now. healing is just that strong. its so strong infact that devs made 1 shot mechanics into the dungeons thats ridiculous.

p00tx

I'd suggest trying to heal some more difficult content. The higher you go in difficulty, the more interesting healing becomes, and the more challenging.

thadjarvis

@Noctus Understood that some can go without healer, but do you take a healer for vBRP or some of the latest content to get HM's or ND's? If not congrads on your groups' skill, but that's well into the fractions of a percent of ESO players.

Bottom line: healers are only useful in persistent damage content that is not easy for the group. For some groups everything is easy so no healer required. Many other groups stick to stuff that is too easy. I believe the main issue is few groups do difficult content (for them) every time they log on, which is when healers are most likely to be helpful.

dazee

As someone who plays healers in high end PVE and in PVP i can confirm there is counterplay for healers in PVP, and a lot of high end PVE content requires shittons of healing quickly.

when I heal in PVP if someone lands major defile on me and starts actually hitting me hard, I am not going to survive unless I can escape quickly.

UntilValhalla13

Noctus wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Healing is not overpowered. Sure for most dungeon hard modes and such it can seem that way. But when you get into the new dlc dungeons or into trials it is definately not overpowered. 3 skills will not cut it if you want to keep everyone alive. If heals are nerfed anymore there will be achievements that are not accomplished.

im tanking all dlc dungeons with 3 dd lol. some ppl even do veteran blackrose prison with 1 tank 3 dps. thats how little u need dedicated healers right now. healing is just that strong. its so strong infact that devs made 1 shot mechanics into the dungeons thats ridiculous.

Again though, 4-man content isn't endgame. They're a stepping stone to trials. Try tanking vcr without a healer.

Joy_Division

Icaruzs wrote: »

I'm a main healer and i still feel that even with the nerfs on healing a few patchs ago, healing is still too easy.

We just apply our grand healing, radiant rejuvenation and throw a healing orb. And if you get in trouble and your dds or tank are not in the area of these skills you can use a burst heal of your class.

What i'm trying to say is there's no healer feeling, like "lets heal the injured" or i need to maximize my Healing per second like DD's, because those 3 skills (grand,radiant and energy orb) just provide a burst of healing that you dont have to worry about the health of your group, and only worry about keeping buffs and debuffs up. (combat prayer, minor vun and etc)

Healing still overpowered (and i'm a main healer ) right know, and the proof is that you can run a vet dlc dungeon HM with 3 dd's, just sloting a healing skill, like echoing vigor, grand healing, radiant regenaration in each dps and you will be more than fine (and have a higher dps overall)

We need a heal nerf, because is not even fun to heal anymore, and in some content we are not even required to be there.

@edit forgot to metion that if you are going to the 3 DD's and one tank set up, your tank can use energy orb for your's DD which is another burst heal and also recover their resources.

3 DPS has been meta since December 2014. Welcome to the community. Of course, it's only meta for we tryhards that play every day.

In the world of pugging, there is absolutely nothing overpowered and nothing needs a nerf. In fact, just about everything needs a buff.

Noctus

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

stpdmonkey wrote: »

Healing is not overpowered. Sure for most dungeon hard modes and such it can seem that way. But when you get into the new dlc dungeons or into trials it is definately not overpowered. 3 skills will not cut it if you want to keep everyone alive. If heals are nerfed anymore there will be achievements that are not accomplished.

im tanking all dlc dungeons with 3 dd lol. some ppl even do veteran blackrose prison with 1 tank 3 dps. thats how little u need dedicated healers right now. healing is just that strong. its so strong infact that devs made 1 shot mechanics into the dungeons thats ridiculous.

Again though, 4-man content isn't endgame. They're a stepping stone to trials. Try tanking vcr without a healer.

i dont see the point? so screw healers untill its endgame raid ?

Noctus

dazee wrote: »

As someone who plays healers in high end PVE and in PVP i can confirm there is counterplay for healers in PVP, and a lot of high end PVE content requires shittons of healing quickly.

when I heal in PVP if someone lands major defile on me and starts actually hitting me hard, I am not going to survive unless I can escape quickly.

which classes these days have mayor defile skill except necro ?

idk

What is the most challenging content OP is healing?

Also, it is not the strength of heals it is our ability to mitigate and avoid damage. Unlike some of the other major MMORPGs where we can only move out of stupid and use a defensive cooldown that has a long cooldown itself, ESO requires active avoidance and mitigation through an entire fight. That has a lot to do with how much really needs to be healed.

In the same token, healers are not just healers, much of their job is buffing and providing resources.

thadjarvis

Noctus wrote: »

i dont see the point? so screw healers untill its endgame raid ?

Yes, they are really useful in endgame raids for buff coverage efficiency, healer mechanics, and group sustain source (orbs, synergies, and running HoTs so DDs can focus resources and GCDs on damage) even with groups that could survive without them self healing.

Again the problem of not needing a healer is not the game it's players' content difficulty choices. If you're running some base game dungeon for the 10th time, you know it inside and outside. With a decent tank you rarely will even take damage. Same goes for many DLCs. The problem is the player base often repeats playing the same content at the same difficulty day after day. Simply put if not under stress you don't need a healer at all.

In order to be useful as a healer, you have to go into content that is difficult for a group (that could be a Vet 1 dungeon or a HM trial depending on the group). Running base game pledges is asking to not feel useful as most of those instances can be solo'ed.

So basically, push it to be useful. Find Vet 2 HMs easy go into vDLCs. Find those easy, do the HM and no death. Find that easy do HM/ND/Speed all in one go (note that as healer you are support and may slot fair amount of DPS most of the run). Go for unchained etc. And yes though I disagree that dungeons don't count as end-game, you can also get into "true end-game" of HM DLC trials. DPS is always useful; supports are only useful when it's hard.

BooPerScOOper

thadjarvis wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

i dont see the point? so screw healers untill its endgame raid ?

DPS is always useful; supports are only useful when it's hard.

While I myself agree with 99.9999% of what you are saying. It's the Bold Type that's the difference here. Again you have to understand not all players are as experienced as us "Endgamers". To the people that aren't at that level Healers are very important to them. Time doing harder content will allow them to see what you're talking about here and they will come to the same conclusions. OP asking for nerfs is never the right answer. It only feed fire to the flames of 75% (pulling that % outta my ass) of the player base

thadjarvis

But my main point is that it's not about end-game. It's about doing difficult content for the particular player. That could be normal VoM.

Simply put, if there's little risk of dying then it makes perfect sense that a non-damage dealer isn't all that useful.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Imagine being so out of touch with this game that you think PVE healing is anywhere near the top of the list of issues that needs addressed.

IonicKai

Healing (just the act of putting out heals for your group) is easy when your DPS and tanks are aware and good at mechanics and self sustain. The problem comes from groups that are lower damage or are actively messing up or missing mechanics because they don't know better. This game often has a tipping point where damage outweighs the need for healing because you start skipping mechanics but if you are experiencing those mechanics healing is very needed. Something OP should keep in mind is that most players aren't super aware hard hitters that play this game so much they have mechs memorized or forgot them because they always skip them (like lunar in vMoL or really all the mechs past pad 5). That's not a healing issue but a result of the difference between an average player and those in endgame being too large. It's riding a line that most players simply can't follow so to end game certain things are trivial or easy but to the masses are borderline impossible.