Drain Essence completely pointless now

drkfrontiers

Drain Essence:
The stun from this ability and its morphs now occurs when the cast completes, rather than when it begins.

Its one bonus is pointless. It has one of the longest animations, and the small heal it provides against the damage incoming makes the stun pretty inconsequential.

I rarely if ever slot this ability but on the odd occasion it proved useful.

I know that the vampire skill line is getting a make over, but is still troubling. I mean there are other stuns in the game that cannot be blocked or dodged, so why was there a need to neuter this one?

If this is a sign of things to come ... god forbid what else you have planned for Vampires.

Stebarnz

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

drkfrontiers

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge? Both these are effective programmed as "cancelled" being instant casts while drain essence has 3 sec duration.

So the burst damage they are afforded is pretty in your face, while you have to stand around waiting for a stun. In PVP ALOT happens in 3 secs movement wise and damage wise which made this stun its only utility.

The Uninvited

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Jup, instead of fixing it they nerfed it.

Elusiin

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge?

Is fossilize telegraphed or instant? Toppling Charge you can see coming at you, the drain essence was instant with no telegraph. I hope they're not removing the ability altogether, but I agree it's kinda useless in the current state. I think if it increasingly slowed the enemy to a halt then stunned, then it would be an INCREDIBLE ability. Like a single target version of stop time.

ketsparrowhawk

I'm happy about this change. This skill was getting so annoying. Granted, it only became so popular because other CC skills were nerfed so heavily.

The health return now needs to be buffed. 15% of your "missing" health is weak. Make it a flat value.. something on par with sweeps.

drkfrontiers

Elusiin wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge?

Is fossilize telegraphed or instant? Toppling Charge you can see coming at you, the drain essence was instant with no telegraph. I hope they're not removing the ability altogether, but I agree it's kinda useless in the current state. I think if it increasingly slowed the enemy to a halt then stunned, then it would be an INCREDIBLE ability. Like a single target version of stop time.

Sorry as I said bit of a noob, but I believe they are instant. Not sure what the telegraphed is about. Should I check my mail or something

Elusiin

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Elusiin wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge?

Is fossilize telegraphed or instant? Toppling Charge you can see coming at you, the drain essence was instant with no telegraph. I hope they're not removing the ability altogether, but I agree it's kinda useless in the current state. I think if it increasingly slowed the enemy to a halt then stunned, then it would be an INCREDIBLE ability. Like a single target version of stop time.

Sorry as I said bit of a noob, but I believe they are instant. Not sure what the telegraphed is about. Should I check my mail or something

Telegraphed in the gaming world just means you can see the preparation or execution of the attack before it actually happens. Like a boss charging up a laser beam, and then firing it. The charging up was the telegraphing of the ability.

Toppling Charge is instant cast, but it's a gap closer ability, so you can see an enemy moving towards you in the attack animation before you actually get hit and stunned, which gives you a chance to roll dodge or block. The moving towards you is the telegraph of the attack.

Not sure about fossilize though, but I think the developer direction with these changes is to make combat more fluid and reactive, and I personally enjoy it, but I also agree this ability needs buffed.

drkfrontiers

Elusiin wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Elusiin wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge?

Is fossilize telegraphed or instant? Toppling Charge you can see coming at you, the drain essence was instant with no telegraph. I hope they're not removing the ability altogether, but I agree it's kinda useless in the current state. I think if it increasingly slowed the enemy to a halt then stunned, then it would be an INCREDIBLE ability. Like a single target version of stop time.

Sorry as I said bit of a noob, but I believe they are instant. Not sure what the telegraphed is about. Should I check my mail or something

Telegraphed in the gaming world just means you can see the preparation or execution of the attack before it actually happens. Like a boss charging up a laser beam, and then firing it. The charging up was the telegraphing of the ability.

Toppling Charge is instant cast, but it's a gap closer ability, so you can see an enemy moving towards you in the attack animation before you actually get hit and stunned, which gives you a chance to roll dodge or block. The moving towards you is the telegraph of the attack.

Not sure about fossilize though, but I think the developer direction with these changes is to make combat more fluid and reactive, and I personally enjoy it, but I also agree this ability needs buffed.

Its thoughtful of them to give me 3 secs to ponder my existence as the last moments of my life flash before my eyes.

StormeReigns

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm happy about this change. This skill was getting so annoying. Granted, it only became so popular because other CC skills were nerfed so heavily.

The health return now needs to be buffed. 15% of your "missing" health is weak. Make it a flat value.. something on par with sweeps.

Funny enough, 15% can return a good chunk. Sadly though, everyone doesn't run between 40-80k health for it to return that good chunk. ATM feels kinda lack luster.

I always felt the drain should be: one morph should have stun at start with less health return and mediocre damage, while the other high damage and health for longer duration and short off-balance after.

Royaji

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge? Both these are effective programmed as "cancelled" being instant casts while drain essence has 3 sec duration.

So the burst damage they are afforded is pretty in your face, while you have to stand around waiting for a stun. In PVP ALOT happens in 3 secs movement wise and damage wise which made this stun its only utility.

Stun from Drain Essence specifically was causing a bug which prevented your target from breaking free immediately if the ability was quickly cancelled before the channel was over. Other stuns don't have this issue.

Since ZOS is incapable of fixing the break free bug properly (as they usually are), they have nerfed the skill out of existence so no one uses it and the problem "goes away". This is a pretty normal way of "balancing" for them. Very similar thing has happened to Rune Cage or Snipe before.

Stebarnz

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge? Both these are effective programmed as "cancelled" being instant casts while drain essence has 3 sec duration.

So the burst damage they are afforded is pretty in your face, while you have to stand around waiting for a stun. In PVP ALOT happens in 3 secs movement wise and damage wise which made this stun its only utility.

It was a very strong bugged stun that gave classes like mahcro and magden a stun they could time massive burst damage with, it needed changing for the good of the game.

INB4 cry babies who cant play those classes without a stun, yes i run both toons and still do well.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

Stebarnz wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge? Both these are effective programmed as "cancelled" being instant casts while drain essence has 3 sec duration.

So the burst damage they are afforded is pretty in your face, while you have to stand around waiting for a stun. In PVP ALOT happens in 3 secs movement wise and damage wise which made this stun its only utility.

It was a very strong bugged stun that gave classes like mahcro and magden a stun they could time massive burst damage with, it needed changing for the good of the game.
.

Yes we mustn’t allow a portion of players to have access to an essential gameplay mechanic.

Stebarnz

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge? Both these are effective programmed as "cancelled" being instant casts while drain essence has 3 sec duration.

So the burst damage they are afforded is pretty in your face, while you have to stand around waiting for a stun. In PVP ALOT happens in 3 secs movement wise and damage wise which made this stun its only utility.

It was a very strong bugged stun that gave classes like mahcro and magden a stun they could time massive burst damage with, it needed changing for the good of the game.
.

Yes we mustn’t allow a portion of players to have access to an essential gameplay mechanic.

Completely over your head what i meant.

Ill try to type it slow.... Any class that doesnt have a built in undodgeable, bugged and damaging stun isnt meant to have one as they have too much burst potential to set it up!

Vevvev

Fossilize is an instant ability. While it does have a small windup animation (Which is a fraction of a second) the ability cannot be block or dodged when its been cast. I use it quite often and its a very reliable stun. The drain essence nerf was not needed as I usually laugh when people use it against me. I just break free and bash their face in, which puts them off balance and stuns them!!!

Yes, while they are channeling this 3 second attack to stun you they are open to getting interrupted. I'd never use the skill in PVP now.

Bashev

Vevvev wrote: »

Fossilize is an instant ability. While it does have a small windup animation (Which is a fraction of a second) the ability cannot be block or dodged when its been cast. I use it quite often and its a very reliable stun. The drain essence nerf was not needed as I usually laugh when people use it against me. I just break free and bash their face in, which puts them off balance and stuns them!!!

Yes, while they are channeling this 3 second attack to stun you they are open to getting interrupted. I'd never use the skill in PVP now.

Drain essence was 50% cheaper and 50% longer range than fossilize. I agree that the nerf was hard but a nerf was needed. Luckily vampire skill line will be updated next patch so we will see what will happen.

Vevvev

Bashev wrote: »

Drain essence was 50% cheaper and 50% longer range than fossilize. I agree that the nerf was hard but a nerf was needed. Luckily vampire skill line will be updated next patch so we will see what will happen.

Indeed, I wonder if they plan to make the Mesmer skill they talked about the new stun, and then make Vampiric drain a more dedicated self heal. We'll never know till Greymoor hits the PTS and even then its subjected to change based on feedback and balance.

Bradyfjord

I never cared for it except for a couple of wb fights. It really wasn't fun to use due to it being a channel.
Changes to Drain Essence (or any of the morphs):

• Cast time instead of channel but all effects go off at once
• Trade stun for point blank aoe(5 yd) damage/heal
• Instant cast (like Entropy) but less damage/heal.
• Stam morph does disease damage instead of magic damage.

But that said, I haven't been a vampire on my main since 1.6 or so. For me, the ESO vampire ship sailed away already.

Cerotonin

I used this on my Magicka Warden. It was pretty versatile in use. I’d use it to line up my shalks and to keep people within the range of my Northern Storm and Arctic Blast. I also used it as a fake-execute since it was undodgeable. The damage tick on this ability is pretty strong too. It also healed for a decent amount.

I understand why it needed a nerf. I can play without it though. Hopefully they could completely rework the ability to make it useful for Graymoor.

Casterial

drkfrontiers wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

It was done to get rid of the bugged stun on cast which could then be cancelled and used to apply a burst of damage.

Sorry for the noob ? but hows that different to Fossilize, Toppling Charge? Both these are effective programmed as "cancelled" being instant casts while drain essence has 3 sec duration.

So the burst damage they are afforded is pretty in your face, while you have to stand around waiting for a stun. In PVP ALOT happens in 3 secs movement wise and damage wise which made this stun its only utility.

This skill was often animation cancelled and in the words of the devs "animation cancelling causes desyncs."

So you animation cancelling this stun causes too many performance issues ):

Squidgaurd

tbh i hated getting stunned by this when getting zerged down. but i understand your isses as not every mag class has acces to a non trash hard cc skill.

Iskiab

The argument that some classes have too much burst so couldn’t have access to a stun is absurd. Stam are the highest burst right now in pvp, did they lose their stunS?

albertberku

Royaji wrote: »

Since ZOS is incapable of fixing the break free bug properly (as they usually are), they have nerfed the skill out of existence so no one uses it and the problem "goes away". This is a pretty normal way of "balancing" for them. Very similar thing has happened to Rune Cage or Snipe before.

What happened to snipe? I am still getting hit by 2 snipes plus a silver bolt from same person at the same time in 1 ms. Not counting all the light attacks and enchantments inbetween. Honestly, if this is the way how they fix stuff now, they should make snipe have 5s cast time.

There is specifically one person that is called "Black Noir" in PC EU EP. He one-shots my glass cannon builds maybe 20 times in a row. And he is always in Cyrodiil. I reported him and also whispered him many times and asked him politely not to do that. He still continues. He specifically picks low-health targets to one-shot and i am always going to hostile castles to search for 1vX. There are times i ride for 30 mins without fighting because he is killing me over and over. And one time he answered me that he is playing like that because that is the only way to surpass "tank meta", but yet my 19k health 12k resistance characters are probably the ones that he killed most in cyrodiil.

tsaescishoeshiner

This skill could be very frustrating to play against given the super janky stun. But it was also important for mag classes without a stun. I think people got too discouraged by the Flame Clench nerf, and still find it really usable in battlegrounds — despite the high cost, low damage, short range, and short stun, it feels very effective on Magblade.

I don't mind that they nerfed the stun instead of fixing it, because it would probably take them longer to fix (if it's even fixable with the current combat system), and there's no reason to keep a jank stun in the game for that long.

The Vampire rework is coming with Greymoor, so the skill will probably be adjusted, reworked, or replaced then.

But still, maybe they could have moved the stun to apply after 1 second, instead of at the end?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Can they at least update the effect of the spell the NPC vampires use?

Their drain essence still stuns you on cast and now it is inconsistent.

Kadoin

lol now that its no longer buggable it's useless? As expected of the forums...

Langdon64

I'm a sad vampire...no. really. I'm not very good and I really liked the drain. Not as an exploitable bug but as a lazy mechanic. Now I have to work harder. Sigh. (Hangs head and shuffles off to The Flaming Nix for a sad drink).

Ankael07

Never thought I'd see the day when Drain gets nerfed. It used to be such a bad skill in everyone's eye and after so many nerfs it has come to this

Red_Feather

It should slow down to a stun like the psijic time stop morph does.

Just use the same effect.

Hope it's that easy because it would be very cool.

Stebarnz

albertberku wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Since ZOS is incapable of fixing the break free bug properly (as they usually are), they have nerfed the skill out of existence so no one uses it and the problem "goes away". This is a pretty normal way of "balancing" for them. Very similar thing has happened to Rune Cage or Snipe before.

What happened to snipe? I am still getting hit by 2 snipes plus a silver bolt from same person at the same time in 1 ms. Not counting all the light attacks and enchantments inbetween. Honestly, if this is the way how they fix stuff now, they should make snipe have 5s cast time.

There is specifically one person that is called "Black Noir" in PC EU EP. He one-shots my glass cannon builds maybe 20 times in a row. And he is always in Cyrodiil. I reported him and also whispered him many times and asked him politely not to do that. He still continues. He specifically picks low-health targets to one-shot and i am always going to hostile castles to search for 1vX. There are times i ride for 30 mins without fighting because he is killing me over and over. And one time he answered me that he is playing like that because that is the only way to surpass "tank meta", but yet my 19k health 12k resistance characters are probably the ones that he killed most in cyrodiil.

Reported someone for killing your glass cannon build? Classic scrub move!

Couple of things stand out, 1: how are you hoping for 1vx when you get 1 shot so easy? 2: Change your build to adapt to the situation? 3: Dont go to where he keeps killing you?

albertberku

I am reporting players for bug abuse. 3 skills hitting at the same time without hearing first snipe coming is a known bug in the game. People who use it know how to reproduce it and do it on purpose.

I warn people who abuse bugs like this constantly: You are not safe, there has been disciplinary actions against such accounts before and there will be in the future.