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Some thoughts on Cyrodil and PVP combat mechanics....
wotevah
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Some ideas and improvements I would like to see...in no particular order...
1. An end to the lag. I would love to see many more players enjoying PVP (all that the same time).
2. Expansion of the Cyrodil map. Perhaps neighbouring regions could be added to spice it up. There seems to be more imperial lands to the South East and South West of the map (Niben River Valley and Kvatch areas).
3. Add another faction! Its time the Imperials martialed their forces and tried to restore order.
4. Include the Imperial City itself in the normal campain map. Let the Hammer spawn there.
5. Improve the rewards. Perhaps bring back the master's weapons or similar as end of campaign rewards for the top scoring players.
6. Give guilds a big incenitve to hold keeps other than just a guild store. Holding a keep should enrich a guild directly in some way, perhaps extra gold, a corresponding additonal guild store in the respective alliance capital tied to who holds the keep, and/or an AP multiplier for its members in cyro. This will encourage more cooperative play and bring the merchant guilds into Cyrodil.
7. Night capping/morning capping is problem, which ruins the competitive nature of pvp. In the EU campaign I play on, one side often logs in en masse in the early hours, takes over the whole map taking all the scrolls. When the other alliances log in, the morning cappers have the emp bonus, and all the scroll bonuses as well giving them a massive combat advantage. The bonus for holding an enemy scroll should be on a timer, so if one alliance is dominating, the effect of holding the enemy scrolls should eventually fade, levelling the playing field. The increase in campaign points each tick should increase when the buffs fade away, so there is still an incentive to hold the enemy scrolls, but the combat advantage is gone. Too much morning capping and the unlevel playing field leads to an empty Cyrodil as one side logs off in frustration, and that sucks for all pvp players.
8. Bunny hopping...looks stupid, but its mitigating AOE damage, making a player harder to target, and minimises CC effects, there should be a stamina cost to do it in combat, just like there is for roll dodge or blocking.
9. For the love of god....please make streak blockable or increase the cost of this skill much more...it does too many things.
10. Animation cancelling. Mixed views on this, but it strikes me that a defending player should always be able to counter the attacking player's attack, to do this, they must see it coming.
11. Combat Bug...enough already.....make it go away! Let people mount their horse in combat, at the very least.
12. Naval combat...(a friend's idea, but I liked it).
1. An end to the lag. I would love to see many more players enjoying PVP (all that the same time).
2. Expansion of the Cyrodil map. Perhaps neighbouring regions could be added to spice it up. There seems to be more imperial lands to the South East and South West of the map (Niben River Valley and Kvatch areas).
3. Add another faction! Its time the Imperials martialed their forces and tried to restore order.
4. Include the Imperial City itself in the normal campain map. Let the Hammer spawn there.
5. Improve the rewards. Perhaps bring back the master's weapons or similar as end of campaign rewards for the top scoring players.
6. Give guilds a big incenitve to hold keeps other than just a guild store. Holding a keep should enrich a guild directly in some way, perhaps extra gold, a corresponding additonal guild store in the respective alliance capital tied to who holds the keep, and/or an AP multiplier for its members in cyro. This will encourage more cooperative play and bring the merchant guilds into Cyrodil.
7. Night capping/morning capping is problem, which ruins the competitive nature of pvp. In the EU campaign I play on, one side often logs in en masse in the early hours, takes over the whole map taking all the scrolls. When the other alliances log in, the morning cappers have the emp bonus, and all the scroll bonuses as well giving them a massive combat advantage. The bonus for holding an enemy scroll should be on a timer, so if one alliance is dominating, the effect of holding the enemy scrolls should eventually fade, levelling the playing field. The increase in campaign points each tick should increase when the buffs fade away, so there is still an incentive to hold the enemy scrolls, but the combat advantage is gone. Too much morning capping and the unlevel playing field leads to an empty Cyrodil as one side logs off in frustration, and that sucks for all pvp players.
8. Bunny hopping...looks stupid, but its mitigating AOE damage, making a player harder to target, and minimises CC effects, there should be a stamina cost to do it in combat, just like there is for roll dodge or blocking.
9. For the love of god....please make streak blockable or increase the cost of this skill much more...it does too many things.
10. Animation cancelling. Mixed views on this, but it strikes me that a defending player should always be able to counter the attacking player's attack, to do this, they must see it coming.
11. Combat Bug...enough already.....make it go away! Let people mount their horse in combat, at the very least.
12. Naval combat...(a friend's idea, but I liked it).
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Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Yes, absolutely!
2. Too soon. It's laggy and unstable enough as it is already. Maybe when (if?) performance gets fixed.
3. Hostile to the other 3 factions? Could be interesting. But also see point (2).
4. It got removed in the first place precisely because of performance reasons. So maybe not. Also see point (2).
5. If rewards are too good, it will just encourage rampant AP farming. IMO current rewards are ok, and the PvP is its own reward too.
6. Then you might also want to somehow prevent "troll guilds" from claiming those keeps. Just sayin'. (currently, troll guilds only claim keeps to display a silly name for the lolz)
7. (this is too extensive a subject to address it in 1 or 2 lines, but I agree that it is a major problem alright)
8. Yes. With how ESO is designed, you only very rarely legitimately need to jump, in PvE and PvP alike. Even a stacking cost penalty would hardly affect the actual legitimate use cases.
9. Sure. In exchange, make Rune Cage good again, and it's a (dark?) deal.
10. Point is moot when there is extreme lag, by the time you see the animation it's already a few seconds too late. Also see point (1).
11. Yes. Yes. YES! Just set mount stamina to 0 when mounting "in combat", and maybe apply a heavy self snare for 3-4 seconds, to prevent abusing this while engaged in actual combat.
12. Same thing as with point (2).0 -
wotevah✭✭✭> Please god, end the lag, please!
> Expansion of the map will spread the fight over a wider area. Seems to me that most of the lag I encounter comes from Blue Lagnami triple zergs constantly moving together on one objective. If they spread out on the map perhapsit will not be as bad.
> Expansion of the map and adding another faction (the imperials) will breathe new life into ESO pvp. Perhaps even an earner for ZOS as they could create a crown store item to allow DEFECTION from one alliance to another and would make others buy more character slots so they can have an imperial faction toon.
> AP Farming....who cares, the rewards for PVP do not match what you get for trials and the top end of PVP should have the highest rewards in the game, how this metric is determined if rewarding the bricklayer emperors and PV-Door groups is an issue then shift more AP towards other scoring metrics.
> We have to make claiming a keep more interesting than simply bragging rights. Drawing guilds into PVP for profit seems to me to be an awesome idea and will bring players with a different perspective to CYRO.
>I am seeing this in the current European locked campaign. The blues are seizing all the scrolls before the reds log in, grabbing the emp buff then they are impossible to stop while zerging during primetime. If those buffs were to wear off, there would be more fun to be had by all...and that is the primary point of this game is it not....to have fun.
>Bunny hopping needs to be addressed in the combat mechanics.
> I do hate streak, but then I hate all the CC skills to some extent and think all of them need to be dialled back several notches and the classes that rely on them will need buffs to other class skills to make that up.
> I like the idea of skillful play, but animation cancellation seems (some of the time) to be an exploit. It is also skillful to be able to react and counter an attack.
>Combat bug annoys the f*** out of everyone. It's there to prevent an exploit (so I have been told). Please find a solution to the unknown exploit that is not such a cluster f***.
> Yeah, naval combat is pretty out there.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭some really good ideas and requests here that i agree with and i hope we see happen0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd settle for just fixing the lag and performance issues. If that doesn't happen, all the rest is akin to gilding a turd.3 -
wotevah✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I'd settle for just fixing the lag and performance issues. If that doesn't happen, all the rest is akin to gilding a turd.
Agreed, but unless the gamers at Zos can justify improving PVP to their bean counting masters, by showing there is revenue to be gained by focusing development on PVP (as well as the revenue they risk losing by alienating the pvp community any more) it is doubtful they will bother. They will just offer you another reskin to a mount or perhaps two.0 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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Except that we both know they will heavily resist any attempt to spread them out, and will happily stack the entire faction on whichever objective happens to be most important at the moment - usually the hammer or a scroll, or Aleswell/Blk if none of the former are up for grabs.> Expansion of the map will spread the fight over a wider area. Seems to me that most of the lag I encounter comes from Blue Lagnami triple zergs constantly moving together on one objective. If they spread out on the map perhapsit will not be as bad.
IMO, increasing the playable area would be also counterproductive in terms of performance (bigger zone = bigger lag).
The main difference is that you can't cheese vTrial rewards by RPing as a stonemason, or by light attacking your way to victory (unless you pay through your nose for a carry).> AP Farming....who cares, the rewards for PVP do not match what you get for trials and the top end of PVP should have the highest rewards in the game, how this metric is determined if rewarding the bricklayer emperors and PV-Door groups is an issue then shift more AP towards other scoring metrics.
But both of those strats are kinda viable in Cyro if you know what you are doing, and want to "game the system" with a minimum of effort and actually avoid any real PvP.
Also, LOL @ "bricklayer emperors" - you get an awesome for that, it's the first time I've heard them described as such in a year+ of playing ESO
IMO the real problem currently is the overabundance of CC in what is a technically broken game, where CC immunities and breakfree usually fail to work.> I do hate streak, but then I hate all the CC skills to some extent and think all of them need to be dialled back several notches and the classes that rely on them will need buffs to other class skills to make that up.
Fixing the performance and also the glitched CCs (mostly fears?) would go a long way to alleviating these issues.
It's also interesting to note that the recent major combat updates have already dialled back on CCs considerably - especially hard CCs are now less accessible in general, and there seems to have been a general trend to move away from CCs attached to spammable abilities (which was a very poor combat design to begin with).
Oh, please.> I like the idea of skillful play, but animation cancellation seems (some of the time) to be an exploit. It is also skillful to be able to react and counter an attack.
I tried playing in Cyro last week and I couldn't even see any of my own character's abilities being cast - nor those of any of the enemies, that's how bad the desyncs were.
At times like these, it feels like we are talking about two completely different games.
The recent block changes didn't help any - the whole combat system (including AC) is now a right mess.
Lol, ***?>Combat bug annoys the f*** out of everyone. It's there to prevent an exploit (so I have been told). Please find a solution to the unknown exploit that is not such a cluster f***.
If the exploit in question is related to being able to swap gear and quickslots after a few seconds of not dealing or taking any damage (as we used to be able to do at some point between Summerset and Elsweyr), then this is some batcrap totalitarian nonsense on ZOS' part right there. Screwing up the whole PvP playerbase's gaming experience because a few players "cheated" by swapping gear. Brilliant logic, ZOS.
Although in all fairness, in the past few weeks I've been mercifully free of the stuck in combat bug. Probably because I'm getting disconnected every few minutes, so there isn't enough time to actually get afflicted with it.1 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭> Expansion of the map will spread the fight over a wider area. Seems to me that most of the lag I encounter comes from Blue Lagnami triple zergs constantly moving together on one objective. If they spread out on the map perhapsit will not be as bad.
Dunno, I rode across the other end of the map yesterday to solo a resource, and the lag was still terrible, despite me being the only activity anywhere near me.2