The Direction of ESO

Eevee_42

As someone who has played this game on and off for the past 5 years, it has been an important part of my life and I have met some wonderful people along the way. Whether it was raiding with friends in a trial, or teaming up in pvp, there was always something fun to do. However, the past year of ESO has been very questionable for me. Lots of the people who once played every day are moving on to other games that have more to offer. Greymoor was the last nail in the coffin for me and lots of other people I once played with.

What is the direction that ZOS is taking? Their motivations and reasons for the nonsensical changes they implement are poorly explained and blindside the people who are committed to ESO. It could be a drastic balance change or removing the ability to play with friends, and they never sufficiently explain themselves or the objective behind it all. The best they can come up with is basically, "We are applying these dramatic changes, and going to test them out on some vague timeline. We will see how this goes."

Anybody who enjoys PvP in this game can attest to how lackluster it is. No new systems have been added in nearly 3 years; it is clear that this is not something they care to improve on and basically put it on the backburner while applying their band-aid fixes. Can't figure out how to fix premades pugstomping? Rather than solving the core issues, they just completely remove the ability to group with friends in an online game. This kills the game for anybody who plays BGs socially whether it is with a guild, friends, or their partners. Cyrodiil is not a suitable replacement either; it's basically a horse riding simulator between keeps and outposts, you may or may not get zerged down, all the while getting 15 FPS and fighting tankbot builds.

Even PvE is a dull, derivative and unimaginative string of copy-paste content. Year after year, it is the same formulaic dungeon DLC with one trial and a new grind-fest skill line or system akin to lorebooks. New vet trials that we wait for a year to be released are beaten with ease on day one. There is no challenge or progression, the PvE in ESO is laughably easy. I would love to see ZOS do something innovative, but at this point, that's like waiting for a unicorn. Even the Crown Store lacks any creativity; they continually release old items without anything new or interesting. It's like there is zero effort going into any aspect of the game.

It seems that this game is going in the direction of purely catering to being accessible to solo-players and casuals. There is no encouragement of a competitive spirit or overcoming difficult challenges. I love ESO, and I want to see it succeed, but I am growing apathetic as the game becomes more aimless with a complete lack of direction. The devs completely ignore valid criticism and good ideas. It's looking like everybody else on my friends list, it might be time to move on to other games. This is not an "I quit" post, but a final plea to save the game that I, and many others, love.

Contaminate

ZOS has gone into least effort max profit mode. It’s making them money, so quality gameplay (nevermind functional gameplay) is one of their lowest concerns

Elsonso

Contaminate wrote: »

ZOS has gone into least effort max profit mode. It’s making them money, so quality gameplay (nevermind functional gameplay) is one of their lowest concerns

I would not say that gameplay a lowest concern. Customer service seems to hold that position. Gameplay is very important, as it is how they drive people to the various Stores to buy things.

Urvoth

100% agree, it seems like everything is a minimal effort or even maintenance mode cash cow. The last real PvP content was added in Morrowind, and that was the last year two trials were added in one year. Dragonhold didn't even have a trial and ZOS has been labeling their performance improvements as content LOL.

Dracane

Everybody knows it. Even the cheap content that requires the least effort (dungeon DLCs) is nothing but copy paste. Same mechanics and the same enemies, sometimes reskinned, sometimes not.

At this point I just try to enjoy the story behind everything rather than minding the low quality. Because I think the stories are still good. I just finished the Dragonhold story today (currently doing that Abnur Tharn follow up quest) and I really loved the story. I do not want to leave the crew.

Mettaricana

Eevee_42 wrote: »

As someone who has played this game on and off for the past 5 years, it has been an important part of my life and I have met some wonderful people along the way. Whether it was raiding with friends in a trial, or teaming up in pvp, there was always something fun to do. However, the past year of ESO has been very questionable for me. Lots of the people who once played every day are moving on to other games that have more to offer. Greymoor was the last nail in the coffin for me and lots of other people I once played with.

What is the direction that ZOS is taking? Their motivations and reasons for the nonsensical changes they implement are poorly explained and blindside the people who are committed to ESO. It could be a drastic balance change or removing the ability to play with friends, and they never sufficiently explain themselves or the objective behind it all. The best they can come up with is basically, "We are applying these dramatic changes, and going to test them out on some vague timeline. We will see how this goes."

Anybody who enjoys PvP in this game can attest to how lackluster it is. No new systems have been added in nearly 3 years; it is clear that this is not something they care to improve on and basically put it on the backburner while applying their band-aid fixes. Can't figure out how to fix premades pugstomping? Rather than solving the core issues, they just completely remove the ability to group with friends in an online game. This kills the game for anybody who plays BGs socially whether it is with a guild, friends, or their partners. Cyrodiil is not a suitable replacement either; it's basically a horse riding simulator between keeps and outposts, you may or may not get zerged down, all the while getting 15 FPS and fighting tankbot builds.

Even PvE is a dull, derivative and unimaginative string of copy-paste content. Year after year, it is the same formulaic dungeon DLC with one trial and a new grind-fest skill line or system akin to lorebooks. New vet trials that we wait for a year to be released are beaten with ease on day one. There is no challenge or progression, the PvE in ESO is laughably easy. I would love to see ZOS do something innovative, but at this point, that's like waiting for a unicorn. Even the Crown Store lacks any creativity; they continually release old items without anything new or interesting. It's like there is zero effort going into any aspect of the game.

It seems that this game is going in the direction of purely catering to being accessible to solo-players and casuals. There is no encouragement of a competitive spirit or overcoming difficult challenges. I love ESO, and I want to see it succeed, but I am growing apathetic as the game becomes more aimless with a complete lack of direction. The devs completely ignore valid criticism and good ideas. It's looking like everybody else on my friends list, it might be time to move on to other games. This is not an "I quit" post, but a final plea to save the game that I, and many others, love.

They play spin the bottle every 3 months and take a sledge hammer to whatever part of the game the bottle stops on. Then if that unlucky part gets the bottle again 3 months later it gets miley cyrus on a wrecking ball... Then after its been miley cyrolled off into a ditch... the devs gather around like whos during chirstmas in the grinch and draw a lottery of some random aspect of the game to over buff, over nerf or invalidate completely.. then get drunk in the final week PTS wrap up day party, shred the feedback notes and fire it out of a confetti cannon then spill their crown crate fund beer on the bugfix computer pat themselves on the back and give eachother participation awards for doing god knows what to this game for no damn reason...

Hanokihs

There really isn't any specific direction, by the looks of it. They seem to change focus every couple years or so. My interpretation:

At first, it was more along the lines of "relevant content," and we got Craglorn/Imperial City stuff to go along with the story. We hadn't gotten into nerf-mode yet, and the game still wasn't quite sure what it wanted to be.

Then we sorta shifted to "flesh out the map," but Wrothgar seems to've been the only iteration of that idea. It's the only big zone not dedicated to it's own chapter. Also the last truly challenging content we were given in the form of Maelstrom. Nowadays, it's less about learning mechanics to progress, and more about raw damage to progress. But this isn't the place for that argument, so moving on.

After that came the "recreate staple landmarks" idea with Morrowind and Summerset. The idea was apparently to explore these vastly different and immersive swaths of culture, while appreciating nods to lore we already know and love. A pinch of PVP, a new tweak to trials that nobody really liked, and those notions fell by the wayside.

Murkmire got sprinkled around in there as an afterthought of something that was originally going to be much grander.

Now we have the "compelling story split into several parts" branch of ESO development with Elsweyr and Skyrim, where the sum of the bits ideally form a greater whole... for the few dozen people able to complete all of it. Locking parts of the tale behind trials isn't their most ingenious idea, but since nobody came out and asked if we want that, we'll probably get one or two more of these before they go focus on something else. They're also making the first preparations for a class identity overhaul, even though not everyone agrees with their concept of what certain classes' identities should be. But we'll see how it turns out.

We won't really know where their heads are until they revamp the combat system, right? So in the meantime, I assume cosmetics/housing will continue to be the once-in-jest-but-now-for-real endgame for the majority of players.

dinokstrunz

Zombie Online Studios managed to attract a crowd who pay for the unimaginative content they're providing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecgdwhc8gkw

This is the kind of audience which allows developers to create these doldrum like games. Doesn't appear anything is going to change anytime soon. This game now feels like it's entering retirement stage.

Mr_Walker

Eevee_42 wrote: »

Cyrodiil is not a suitable replacement either; it's basically a horse riding simulator between keeps and outposts, you may or may not get zerged down, all the while getting 15 FPS and fighting tankbot builds.

Nice humblebrag, I'd love to get 15 fps in a keep fight.

FierceSam

And yet the players keep on coming.

I really like the 2 new dungeons - unhallowed grave much more than Icereach - they’re fun and inventive. Way more so than the Wrathstone DLC from this time last year. If this is an indication of the quality of Greymoor, then I think it will be far, far better than Elsweyr. For the first time I am actually looking forward to it.

There’s a challenge faced by all MMOs once they get beyond a certain age, namely how do you develop content that works for both a large number of new/inexperienced players and a much smaller number of longer term/more skilled players. As the MMO ages the gap between inexperienced and skilled becomes ever wider, increasing both the demand for content and the difficulty of producing it. It’s why CP had to be frozen because the best players were getting increasingly more powerful, widening the gap still further.

ESO is in a challenging place right now. If you’ve been playing for a while it might feel like it’s tired and just repeating the same old same old - another DLC dungeon pack, another set of PvP campaigns, yet another f-ing indrik etc etc - but to new players there has never been so much content.

theyancey

Eevee_42 wrote: »

It seems that this game is going in the direction of purely catering to being accessible to solo-players and casuals.

As soon as it isn't I will be out of here.

Khatou

In my opinion ZOS is completely overwhelmed by the height of the project, they don't know how far they've come to satisfy their community, and I think it shows very well when an event or other major addition happens.

Not to mention the studio's deaf ears when players explain the problems existing on the game and sometimes problems existing since the release of the game...

krachall

The "events" are the biggest indicator of how formulaic the game has become. Enter zone, kill monster, collect tickets, buy a horrible looking mount. Ok, bad idea ZOS...but it's the overarching grind for ALL your events? Once, I can forgive, but to make grinding tickets for a zone specific, race specific mount that you've reskinned 6 or 8 times is just mailing it in.

And instead of managing their game balance, they just nerf.

Here's how a game SHOULD be managed:

1. Caltrops is used by every stam build in the game. It's very powerful.
2. Let's look at why it's popular...AOE damage...ranged...DOT. OK, makes sense.
3. Let's see if we can improve some other skills that NO ONE has on their bar so they are at least as reasonably attractive as caltrops. Some will continue to use caltrops, some will use another skill that we've made attractive. But now we have variety.

Here's how ZOS manages it:

Nerf Caltrops by 70% so no one will use it.

Hanokihs

krachall wrote: »

The "events" are the biggest indicator of how formulaic the game has become. Enter zone, kill monster, collect tickets, buy a horrible looking mount. Ok, bad idea ZOS...but it's the overarching grind for ALL your events? Once, I can forgive, but to make grinding tickets for a zone specific, race specific mount that you've reskinned 6 or 8 times is just mailing it in.

And instead of managing their game balance, they just nerf.

Here's how a game SHOULD be managed:

1. Caltrops is used by every stam build in the game. It's very powerful.
2. Let's look at why it's popular...AOE damage...ranged...DOT. OK, makes sense.
3. Let's see if we can improve some other skills that NO ONE has on their bar so they are at least as reasonably attractive as caltrops. Some will continue to use caltrops, some will use another skill that we've made attractive. But now we have variety.

Here's how ZOS manages it:

Nerf Caltrops by 70% so no one will use it.

You forgot 3B. Everyone rushes to the forums to complain about the devs making useless changes because they already have Caltrops, and 3C. Everyone else rushes to the forums to complain about the one skill that accidentally became 0.01% more effective than Caltrops in PVP. lol they can't win no matter which route they choose.

Vapirko

Are people still having this discussion? Whatever it’s game has been and is now is what it will always be. That’s the best answer you will get. Don’t ask about server side improvements for PvP, there will be none. Any games that function as a service will always hit this point where they coast along.

Contaminate

Elsonso wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

ZOS has gone into least effort max profit mode. It’s making them money, so quality gameplay (nevermind functional gameplay) is one of their lowest concerns

I would not say that gameplay a lowest concern. Customer service seems to hold that position. Gameplay is very important, as it is how they drive people to the various Stores to buy things.

I suppose technically “poor quality gameplay” is in a way “quality gameplay”

Ermiq

They got found the direction 2 years ago with Morrowind.
The direction where they create new content that is based on the already existing mechanics and is made with already existing tools (new zones/quests and dungeons). Note that it's not just copy/paste however, it's still a lot of work. But it's relatively easier than implementing new mechanics, and it looks pretty sufficient in terms of effort/reward balance.
PvP is kind of frozen, yes. The same with Housing. Same with every part of the game that would require much more than just a new bundle of generic content. Everything that requires redesign, rework, implementation of new features, and so on, is just standing at the same point as 2 years ago, or even longer.

But they have other projects to work on, so I see the reasons why ESO is in somewhat minimal life maintanance mode currently.
Also, they actually trying to do something, like the mentioned balance changes, combat tweaks, the performance and patching overhaul, the CP system is frozen currently but I hope they have some plans. And although things are not going smoothly, I appreciate their efforts.
In the end, it's always very hard for a MMORPG to continue the evolve process after this long time. Every MMORPG comes to this. Games cannot grow forever.

Lysette

The problem I see here is that this discussion so far is just one-sided - from the perspective of competitive gamers. But there is as well the other perspective of what you call casual players. Both have totally different expectations on what a good and enjoyable game is and they play as well on different ends of the gameplay.

For competitive players the actual game is "endgame", whereas for casuals endgame is what they will most likely never reach nor would they want to, because their goal is to enjoy themselves in an interesting and beautiful game world with some challenge, but not too much of it. That is why most of the game is "easy", simply because this type of players likes it easy and basically stress free - adrenaline rushes are not what they are looking for, but basically a theme park which is doable even if they have not much of a clue how game mechanics work - there are plenty of those, if not even the majority.

That is why most of the game is easy mode - but of course this is not what competitive gamers want.Those look for a challenge and are permanently asking for more challenges. The problem with this for any gaming company is that this type of player will burn through new content in a matter of days, if it takes so long at all. But this content took months to create. So regardless what ZOS would try to do, this group will never be satisfied - so this is a sisyphus task to do for them.

But what can be done is to please the casual player base and there is the actual money to make as well - because casuals are caring for fluff, they want to enjoy themselves and spend money on cosmetics, houses and stuff - simply because they don't have all day to play and will therefore never be able to be competitive - and they know it and are fine with it. I am one of them, that is why I'm telling you this in order to make you see the other side of the coin as well.

There are of course mixed types - but I guess that the majority is of the casual type and ZOS will know this - they have the numbers and cater mainly to where the most money comes from and where the most satisfaction with the game is. And now look at what you all wrote - this doesn't sound like satisfaction and is an endless stream of blame and insults.

Just think about it.

Vanos444

ESO direction is to the Crown Store.
I betting on my money that one of the upcoming expansion will be solely focused on Crown Store Goodies for Whales exclusive.
Who knows we might get a whale mount and a pet for those whales.

barney2525

What is the direction? I would say, south by southwest

Sevalaricgirl

Let's just say, I completely disagree with you. I don't PvP, never have and never will so I don't care what happens to PvP but PvE. If you are an Elder Scrolls fan, then you are into lore, I hope because if not, Elder Scrolls games are not for you. I think the story content is very good. I think they have done a great job at keeping things fresh so I don't have to level my characters through the earlier content that I've done over and over and over again. I think every chapter is different.

Yes, I hate what they did to my favorite race, the Bosmer. It was stupid, made absolutely no sense at all, and they need to go back to the drawing board on the changes they made to racials and listen to the majority who play the game because obviously, they don't. They have no idea what balance is. The racial passive changes were stupid. It was fine the way it was but the minority complained and thus the devs changed things.

But story wise, I like the direction they are going and I'm hoping with the new chapter, they will finally create my vampire castle. Poor Faramir has no place to call her own. I also think I am going to like what they are doing with the vampire changes except vampire lord.

skyhawk002

ZOS is drifting hard into maintenance mode cash cow at this time.

Deathlord92

As a solo player I’m actually happy about the bgs change getting pre mades kinda killed it for me especially if they had heal bot but I do believe there should be a group option and solo option.

A_Silverius

It really feels like their doing minimal effort for maximum profit. Each chapter they reuse assets and pack them into furnishing items for the crown store for example. In essence, you're buying the same thing you already paid for in the chapter you just bought. Also the new antiquities seems like its just a glorified reused mages guild lore book system.

FierceSam

krachall wrote: »

The "events" are the biggest indicator of how formulaic the game has become. Enter zone, kill monster, collect tickets, buy a horrible looking mount. Ok, bad idea ZOS...but it's the overarching grind for ALL your events? Once, I can forgive, but to make grinding tickets for a zone specific, race specific mount that you've reskinned 6 or 8 times is just mailing it in.

And instead of managing their game balance, they just nerf.

Here's how a game SHOULD be managed:

1. Caltrops is used by every stam build in the game. It's very powerful.
2. Let's look at why it's popular...AOE damage...ranged...DOT. OK, makes sense.
3. Let's see if we can improve some other skills that NO ONE has on their bar so they are at least as reasonably attractive as caltrops. Some will continue to use caltrops, some will use another skill that we've made attractive. But now we have variety.

Here's how ZOS manages it:

Nerf Caltrops by 70% so no one will use it.

Except Caltrops got dumped immediately because they improved Soul Trap (also an AoE DoT attack). This seems to be exactly what you’re talking about. Clearly Soul Trap was over-specced (because everyone started using it), so it was downgraded to compensate.

Players aren’t stupid. They’re way more inventive and innovative than developers can realistically plan for. They will find the 0.001% advantage and use that.

The work they are doing on balance is to accomplish exactly what you want, greater potential diversity in class, race, builds and skills. It’s a continuous process. There are almost no stamina builds that don’t use a bow and volley for instance.

As soon as a skill, gearset or strategy becomes overwhelmingly popular it’s likely to be adjusted, if only to encourage more inventive player builds/behaviours.

That’s what we all want, not one way, but many ways.

mocap

ESO is ok for me even after 4 years, but easy overland (main content for me) is just unbearable. I stopped doing PvE quests since Murkmire, waiting for any implementation of personal difficulty option.

Urvoth

Lysette wrote: »

The problem I see here is that this discussion so far is just one-sided - from the perspective of competitive gamers. But there is as well the other perspective of what you call casual players. Both have totally different expectations on what a good and enjoyable game is and they play as well on different ends of the gameplay.

For competitive players the actual game is "endgame", whereas for casuals endgame is what they will most likely never reach nor would they want to, because their goal is to enjoy themselves in an interesting and beautiful game world with some challenge, but not too much of it. That is why most of the game is "easy", simply because this type of players likes it easy and basically stress free - adrenaline rushes are not what they are looking for, but basically a theme park which is doable even if they have not much of a clue how game mechanics work - there are plenty of those, if not even the majority.

That is why most of the game is easy mode - but of course this is not what competitive gamers want.Those look for a challenge and are permanently asking for more challenges. The problem with this for any gaming company is that this type of player will burn through new content in a matter of days, if it takes so long at all. But this content took months to create. So regardless what ZOS would try to do, this group will never be satisfied - so this is a sisyphus task to do for them.

But what can be done is to please the casual player base and there is the actual money to make as well - because casuals are caring for fluff, they want to enjoy themselves and spend money on cosmetics, houses and stuff - simply because they don't have all day to play and will therefore never be able to be competitive - and they know it and are fine with it. I am one of them, that is why I'm telling you this in order to make you see the other side of the coin as well.

There are of course mixed types - but I guess that the majority is of the casual type and ZOS will know this - they have the numbers and cater mainly to where the most money comes from and where the most satisfaction with the game is. And now look at what you all wrote - this doesn't sound like satisfaction and is an endless stream of blame and insults.

Just think about it.

It’s entirely possible to have plenty of enjoyable content for the casual playerbase while maintaining content production and competitive interest. Every somewhat successful/big PvP game does this through a ranking system, tournaments or the ability for players to host private tournaments/games, seasons and season rewards/cosmetics/loot, on top of new modes and maps. The amount of effort that sort of stuff takes is minuscule compared to designing an entire quest zone.

PvE is a bit different, but a lot of successful games with PvE have similar facets. Having certain harder open world stuff or different levels of trial difficulty is another way of doing this on the PvE side. Unfortunately vet dungeons and trials are so easy now that everyone somewhat beats them in a couple of attempts on day one and then just grinds the boring hard modes. Striving to actually beat a trial is much more interesting and fun than working on a hard mode.

Chaos2088

Oh look another doomsday thread....-continues playing-

Dalarius_Avicius

Lysette wrote: »

The problem I see here is that this discussion so far is just one-sided - from the perspective of competitive gamers. But there is as well the other perspective of what you call casual players. Both have totally different expectations on what a good and enjoyable game is and they play as well on different ends of the gameplay.

For competitive players the actual game is "endgame", whereas for casuals endgame is what they will most likely never reach nor would they want to, because their goal is to enjoy themselves in an interesting and beautiful game world with some challenge, but not too much of it. That is why most of the game is "easy", simply because this type of players likes it easy and basically stress free - adrenaline rushes are not what they are looking for, but basically a theme park which is doable even if they have not much of a clue how game mechanics work - there are plenty of those, if not even the majority.

That is why most of the game is easy mode - but of course this is not what competitive gamers want.Those look for a challenge and are permanently asking for more challenges. The problem with this for any gaming company is that this type of player will burn through new content in a matter of days, if it takes so long at all. But this content took months to create. So regardless what ZOS would try to do, this group will never be satisfied - so this is a sisyphus task to do for them.

But what can be done is to please the casual player base and there is the actual money to make as well - because casuals are caring for fluff, they want to enjoy themselves and spend money on cosmetics, houses and stuff - simply because they don't have all day to play and will therefore never be able to be competitive - and they know it and are fine with it. I am one of them, that is why I'm telling you this in order to make you see the other side of the coin as well.

There are of course mixed types - but I guess that the majority is of the casual type and ZOS will know this - they have the numbers and cater mainly to where the most money comes from and where the most satisfaction with the game is. And now look at what you all wrote - this doesn't sound like satisfaction and is an endless stream of blame and insults.

Just think about it.

I understand your perspective, but what you're basically saying is that they'll always cater to the casuals, to get over it and deal with it. But what you fail to understand is that BOTH sides of the coin can and should be catered to. I'm part of both the RP and PVP community and I get both casuals and more "hardcore" players. ZOS has the resources to put in some time and effort into creating content for both playerbases, not just ostracizing one group and satisfying the other.

TheFM

skyhawk002 wrote: »

ZOS is drifting hard into maintenance mode cash cow at this time.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Oh look another doomsday thread....-continues playing-

How are you playing? I crash every five minutes. 0 addons, 0 problems in other games.

Evergnar

Unfortunately I feel like there is no direction other then cash shop and slowly but surely having that encroach on the game. For better or worse.