Why o' why is there not a fresh install option?

krachall

Yay! Doing my second full install of the day now. And this after asking ZOS three different times over the last two weeks if Steam users can relocate the game with the new install.

Fortunately, it's not that much of a data crunch given that I'm usually 500GB below my monthly usage but it's frustrating that you can repeatedly ask a question to avoid this and get no answer then have happen exactly what you were trying to avoid.

And given the huge number of players who bought the game on Steam, you'd think someone at the Genius Desk at ZOS would think to address this instead of a generic "it's a full reinstall" messages. Maybe something like "Steam won't have U25 until ______ date so if you reinstall before then, you'll have to download again when you patch." I'm no programmer but I'm guessing someone at ZOS has an idea of when Steam will get the new files.

Neoealth

pma_pacifier wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

If the game isn't installed, it will only download the latest files. It's always been like that. It won't download the old version and then the patch in addition.

The installer/patcher asks for more space simply due to the fact that it downloads the files in archive form, which are around 25 or so files with 2 GB each. That's too much to keep everything just in memory (which would also be rather risky in case of issues or power outages). As such it will need the space of the final installation (around 68GB) and additionally around 60GB for the downloaded temporary files/archives. Add it together and you'll get the estimate the launcher asks for; essentially 125GB.

Could this be changed? Theoretically it could download all files in-place, only requiring around 70GB free space for a fresh install. But that would also increase download size (since you can't add additional compression using this approach) and potentially lower download speed (as everyone has to download more).

Wrong. In my case, the game is not downloading the latest files if the game isn't installed. (Through steam at least). It is downloading the EXACT same OLD version of files only to download the NEW files after having the old files. I can attest to that because I uninstalled and installed before the patch and I am seeing the same 87gb chunk of old game files being downloaded right now if I were to do a fresh install of the new game.

See? We all expect it to work the way you described, but it's not (game does not download only the latest files). Hence this pain point is being presented.

Perhaps that is how the new version works, the new data needs to "hook" on to the old version first before it discards the old data for good? That is 100% pure speculation from someone who does not know the first thing about software coding though, so take it with a pinch of salt. But seriously complaining is pointless right now. Could be the version they put up for a fresh download will come later and will be a version that didn't rely on the old data.

Or someone from ZoS could clear the air, that would be good as well I guess. Not that I care personally, but seems some do so. *shrug*

Panthermic

themaddaedra wrote: »

Why on earth wouldn't you simply update the launcer in the website to install the new client only?

@pma_pacifier this is the point where you fail. There is nothing about steam but the installer from the website, which is for sure install the new files only. What kind of website you need to install anything with steam?

pma_pacifier

Donny_Vito wrote: »

It would be nice to pick and choose what files you need, but I think in the mind of ZoS (and other companies as well) it's better to do a full download to reduce the chances of corrupting files by users not getting all the files they need or overwriting/deleting a core file. ZoS would need to way to track individual changes per each patch/update, as they don't know if this person needs only this patch or 5 patches worth of data (returning players from a break). It's easier and safer to do a full download, and it comes at the cost of users waiting a few extra hours in hopes of not getting bombed with support tickets to help people install their game.

Thing is, right now a full download would download the old files before overwriting them with the new files. It will not download only the old files

Neoealth wrote: »

pma_pacifier wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

If the game isn't installed, it will only download the latest files. It's always been like that. It won't download the old version and then the patch in addition.

The installer/patcher asks for more space simply due to the fact that it downloads the files in archive form, which are around 25 or so files with 2 GB each. That's too much to keep everything just in memory (which would also be rather risky in case of issues or power outages). As such it will need the space of the final installation (around 68GB) and additionally around 60GB for the downloaded temporary files/archives. Add it together and you'll get the estimate the launcher asks for; essentially 125GB.

Could this be changed? Theoretically it could download all files in-place, only requiring around 70GB free space for a fresh install. But that would also increase download size (since you can't add additional compression using this approach) and potentially lower download speed (as everyone has to download more).

Wrong. In my case, the game is not downloading the latest files if the game isn't installed. (Through steam at least). It is downloading the EXACT same OLD version of files only to download the NEW files after having the old files. I can attest to that because I uninstalled and installed before the patch and I am seeing the same 87gb chunk of old game files being downloaded right now if I were to do a fresh install of the new game.

See? We all expect it to work the way you described, but it's not (game does not download only the latest files). Hence this pain point is being presented.

Perhaps that is how the new version works, the new data needs to "hook" on to the old version first before it discards the old data for good? That is 100% pure speculation from someone who does not know the first thing about software coding though, so take it with a pinch of salt. But seriously complaining is pointless right now. Could be the version they put up for a fresh download will come later and will be a version that didn't rely on the old data.

Or someone from ZoS could clear the air, that would be good as well I guess. Not that I care personally, but seems some do so. *shrug*

Why not download and install the new small client from scratch? The lack of this being done means that there is no provision to perform a fresh download and install of the new client and I'm sure anyone out there in the industry would be uncomfortable for this to happen. Even technical people can get OCD about this happening because it's very very dirty.

No. Complaining is NOT pointless. If our feedback has prompted a fix to this be it today or tomorrow, we would be saving the trouble for SO MANY people. Also, it could only be a matter of a flick of a switch that it just gets fixed (perhaps you know someone forgot to enable it or something and is notified about this issue).

Please, shouldn't we be a community to help each other here in a forum? We should care for each other and in this case threadstarter isn't complaining for the sake of complaining.

Danouk

If we going to complain about this it should have been that ZOS did not tell people about how much space you need to download this update.

As to why they did it this way that's a technical issue which really as no bearing on this. They miss to advise people even though it's smaller you would need that extra space until the new update is installed then you get back that space for being smaller.

pma_pacifier

Panthermic wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Why on earth wouldn't you simply update the launcer in the website to install the new client only?

@pma_pacifier this is the point where you fail. There is nothing about steam but the installer from the website, which is for sure install the new files only. What kind of website you need to install anything with steam?

I'm not sure, you are quoting TS's case about launcher in website. Perhaps he did his downloading from the website and not from steam and is having this issue.

For MY case, as I have presented that I have installed it through steam, I am having the issues I have presented. So yea I did not mention anything about any website I need. Where did I fail, I need more info.

SpaceElf

Yup, I can't download the patch either, due to lack of space. Hope I don't have to cancel my subscription because I can't play what I'm paying for.

SpiderCultist

MissBizz wrote: »

Have a friend who awoke to the "not enough space" error. She also uninstalled the game (not a steam install) - has 185GB of free space and it's still giving the error. Anyone experience this yet and figure out how to fix?

install to another drive (be it internal or external) and move to the ssd following these steps:

1) Copy the Zenimax Online folder with the three folder in it to a safe location and uninstall the game.
2) Reinstall the game in the desired location but dont start the download, simply quit first.
3) Now cut and replace the content inside the Zenimax Online folder in the proper place.
4) Relaunch.

albertberku

The important question here is:

I didnt delete older files, just started launcher today, I have 69 GB free space on my SSD atm, and launcher says it is going to download 52 gb. Am i fine? Or am i going to get a "not enough space" error after launcher downloads everything?

Thanks...

Lisutaris

MissBizz wrote: »

Have a friend who awoke to the "not enough space" error. She also uninstalled the game (not a steam install) - has 185GB of free space and it's still giving the error. Anyone experience this yet and figure out how to fix?

Had the same problem on my GFs PC. At first disk space error, then even after creating enough space -> same error again and again.
After deleting the files/folders manually and checking if there isn't anything left in programs/apps, we did a restart (PC) and it worked.
You could also re-download the client to be 100% safe. Sometimes you will only get the repair option and infinite loop of repairing with old data.

EDIT: My guess on this problem:
Client/Launcher does not "refresh" the information if enough disk space is available. Still thinks it's not enough. Even after closing it and a quick restart, it will create the same error because it's still active in the background (task manager -> processes) and therefore is not able to re-check on free disc size.

themaddaedra

albertberku wrote: »

The important question here is:

I didnt delete older files, just started launcher today, I have 69 GB free space on my SSD atm, and launcher says it is going to download 52 gb. Am i fine? Or am i going to get a "not enough space" error after launcher downloads everything?

Thanks...

If you didn't delete anything and have that 69gb space free from the current game files, you should be gucci. What i understand from the looks of it, you just need 125+ gb total space for the patch to happen. Meaning 125 gb space without having any game files, or 52 gb space if you have the game files already.

I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.

Edit: Of course, the game won't be 125 gb at the end. That's just the ridiculous disk space requirement for the patch to happen.

Danouk

albertberku wrote: »

The important question here is:

I didnt delete older files, just started launcher today, I have 69 GB free space on my SSD atm, and launcher says it is going to download 52 gb. Am i fine? Or am i going to get a "not enough space" error after launcher downloads everything?

Thanks...

If you started it and it did not say anything about enough space then you should be ok as it would tell you from the beginning if there was a problem.

pma_pacifier

Danouk wrote: »

If we going to complain about this it should have been that ZOS did not tell people about how much space you need to download this update.

As to why they did it this way that's a technical issue which really as no bearing on this. They miss to advise people even though it's smaller you would need that extra space until the new update is installed then you get back that space for being smaller.

Yup, sums it up. I just completed the install. I freeeeed up so much space for it, now I get back all the space after the installation. It show us that the fresh install isn't necessarily a fresh install. Whatever the case of a technical issue, wouldn't it be a reasonable expectation for any game to perform a fresh download and install especially when the client is overhauled and that the new files are different and smaller.

idk

themaddaedra wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

You can uninstall the game and download again if you don't have the spare drive space to hold the new and old files until it's complete.

Did you even read? That's already what i did. The new installation includes the old client as well, there's no option to install the new client only. Like you missed the entire point in the post.

Yes I did read. You asking why you can't just download the patch without all the other stuff, the answer is I don't know, you just can't. ZoS know and probably did it for a reason. Complaining won't change anything however.

The "Fresh install option" is just you deleting the game and downloading it all again. That is it. Not much more to say.

Why are you here really? Why there has to be some white knight defending relentlessly when someone god forbid critizies ZOS.

I made an entirely legit complaint. This is something i know a lot of people -including myself- suffer from. You have zero addings to the discussion other than being 10/10 annoying. Please stop.

I have done my own fair share of complaining about ZoS in the past, so your accusation of me being a white knight gave me a smile. I was only pointing out that you can't really say they did anything wrong if you don't understand fully the technical reasons behind it. I'm not a software engineer or coder, I would say it's a safe bet that neither are you also, so who is to say that there is not a good reason for the situation being as it is.

If something is out of your hands and you don't have the full facts or knowledge to challenge them or criticize their methods, then it's best to just get on with it and deal with the hand you've been dealt. If you don't want other peoples thoughts and ideas about subjects, then perhaps a forum is not the best place for you to be.

I mean if it was a issue of poor customer service or something that ZoS was not delivering then I'd be all with you. But this is not that, part of the problem was you didn't have the space on your equipment, so that has caused you some inconvenience.

So i have to be a tech genius to know that installing a game that's supposedly gonna be 60/ish(?) gbs at the end shouldn't require 125 gbs of free space. That's good to know.

I have other games as well you know, those that don't require such nonsense. I should go to their forums and complain about them not requiring twice the space of actual game size. You don't have to be a tech genius to realize this could have been avoided.

No one expects you or anyone to be a tech genius. However, the update was clearly designed and intended to work with the state of our client going into this. You made a guess on how you could do this and unfortunately, that did not work out as you expected.

Sorry you had a bad day with this but I wonder what you expected would come of this thread? A clean instal option will not become available today and no real reason to expect Zos to comment on all this after the fact.

pma_pacifier

Lisutaris wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Have a friend who awoke to the "not enough space" error. She also uninstalled the game (not a steam install) - has 185GB of free space and it's still giving the error. Anyone experience this yet and figure out how to fix?

Had the same problem on my GFs PC. At first disk space error, then even after creating enough space -> same error again and again.
After deleting the files/folders manually and checking if there isn't anything left in programs/apps, we did a restart (PC) and it worked.
You could also re-download the client to be 100% safe. Sometimes you will only get the repair option and infinite loop of repairing with old data.

EDIT: My guess on this problem:
Client/Launcher does not "refresh" the information if enough disk space is available. Still thinks it's not enough. Even after closing it and a quick restart, it will create the same error because it's still active in the background (task manager -> processes) and therefore is not able to re-check on free disc size.

Don't re-download the client. I assume that from what people are experiencing here, the client will download the old client and do the same thing.

Best solution is to try to get the update in by making more space and restarting the launcher. I cleared space after the error and restarted the launcher which started the download soon after.

SpaceElf

So, could I move the game to an external and update there and then move the new, smaller game to my internal SSD?

SpiderCultist

SpaceElf wrote: »

So, could I move the game to an external and update there and then move the new, smaller game to my internal SSD?

that is my plan, but might be wrong

and I don't have a plan B

idk

If your DL comes via Steam your real issue is with Steam as their DL works differently than Zos' and downloads more information.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6619161/#Comment_6619161

Code explains in that link

pma_pacifier

SpiderCultist wrote: »

SpaceElf wrote: »

So, could I move the game to an external and update there and then move the new, smaller game to my internal SSD?

that is my plan, but might be wrong

and I don't have a plan B

Somebody try it!! It could be a solution for so many xD
Lots of people have the game on a fast SSD with low memory and could get around this by moving it out and performing the update.

SpaceElf

pma_pacifier wrote: »

SpiderCultist wrote: »

SpaceElf wrote: »

So, could I move the game to an external and update there and then move the new, smaller game to my internal SSD?

that is my plan, but might be wrong

and I don't have a plan B

Somebody try it!! It could be a solution for so many xD
Lots of people have the game on a fast SSD with low memory and could get around this by moving it out and performing the update.

I'm trying it now, I will let you know. So far, so good.

SpiderCultist

pma_pacifier wrote: »

SpiderCultist wrote: »

SpaceElf wrote: »

So, could I move the game to an external and update there and then move the new, smaller game to my internal SSD?

that is my plan, but might be wrong

and I don't have a plan B

Somebody try it!! It could be a solution for so many xD
Lots of people have the game on a fast SSD with low memory and could get around this by moving it out and performing the update.

as soon as it finishes

BigM

Said: Not enough space

Did: Removed World of Warcraft

Said: Installing ESO Patch

Did: Reinstalled World of Warcraft

Me: All done.

Me: Waiting on server reopening.

In process of getting another SSD drive for gaming.

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep in mind that, while it is fine to have a difference of opinion, name calling and rude comments are inappropriate. Please keep our Community Rules in mind when posting. Thank you for your understanding.

freespirit

As I stated earlier my SSD had 63.9GB of free space...…. I didn't uninstall I just let the Launcher do its thing it went fine.

At one point I checked and I only had 13GB of free space left, next time I looked I had over 45GB.

If your Launcher starts downloading without an error message you have enough space

My final size on disc is 67.5GB down from around 82GB.

Neoealth

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep in mind that, while it is fine to have a difference of opinion, name calling and rude comments are inappropriate. Please keep our Community Rules in mind when posting. Thank you for your understanding.

Not sure why you felt it necessary to remove my small post in reply to idk. I just said I agreed with what he said. Quite puzzled why anyone would think that is an "unnecessary back and forth" or rude. Pretty odd.

xaraan

I'm a bit disappointed that the 125 gigs needed was a larger notice ahead of time. I could have prepared for it had I known instead of waking up after leaving patcher open and finding out that I had some tinkering to do before I could even restart the process.

Panthermic

pma_pacifier wrote: »

Panthermic wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Why on earth wouldn't you simply update the launcer in the website to install the new client only?

@pma_pacifier this is the point where you fail. There is nothing about steam but the installer from the website, which is for sure install the new files only. What kind of website you need to install anything with steam?

I'm not sure, you are quoting TS's case about launcher in website. Perhaps he did his downloading from the website and not from steam and is having this issue.

For MY case, as I have presented that I have installed it through steam, I am having the issues I have presented. So yea I did not mention anything about any website I need. Where did I fail, I need more info.

According to OP's words (s)he has nothing to do with steam, yet you came up with your steam related story in the kind of defense of OP.

"What TS, if i assume is expecting is that:
1. Installer downloads and installs freshly the NEW client files ONLY
*But this is not happening."

And exactly this is what IS happening with the launcher from ESO's website. There is NO old files available to download - you know, this is not steam -.

A friend of mine just did exactly the same what OP is whining about to be not allowed to do. Removed the old files and had 120GB free, then launcher told him, need 5 more. He cleaned up some more and started the process with 140GB free space. The launcher showed 53GB need to be downloaded, what IS the NEW FILES ONLY. It's a big ZIP archive cutted in pieces of ~2GB sized files. So do some math, there's this giant zip, 53GB + 66.6GB need to install, that's 119.6GB. That giant zip have to be there during the whole process, so you have 5.4GB left for temporary files, also that zip have to be uncompressed somewhere/somehow before the files from it can be installed.

Tell me please how would you do it with only 70GB free space?

gezginrocker

Really brilliant, it is almost like Zos is deliberately hiring incompetent people or trying to torture their customers. I have a 128 gb SSD, naturally I didn't have enough space, so I uninstalled the game like the OP. And now Steam tells me I need 105 gb of free space to install, which is impossible on a 128gb drive, even the Windows folder alone is 14 gb. Congrats Zos, you have managed to botch yet another update!

Luckily I had a system image backup, so now I'm restoring it to the SSD. Then I'll copy it to a larger drive, patch it, and finally move it back to the SSD. Thanks a lot for wasting my time!

SpaceElf

Success!!

pma_pacifier

Panthermic wrote: »

pma_pacifier wrote: »

Panthermic wrote: »

themaddaedra wrote: »

Why on earth wouldn't you simply update the launcer in the website to install the new client only?

@pma_pacifier this is the point where you fail. There is nothing about steam but the installer from the website, which is for sure install the new files only. What kind of website you need to install anything with steam?

I'm not sure, you are quoting TS's case about launcher in website. Perhaps he did his downloading from the website and not from steam and is having this issue.

For MY case, as I have presented that I have installed it through steam, I am having the issues I have presented. So yea I did not mention anything about any website I need. Where did I fail, I need more info.

According to OP's words (s)he has nothing to do with steam, yet you came up with your steam related story in the kind of defense of OP.

"What TS, if i assume is expecting is that:
1. Installer downloads and installs freshly the NEW client files ONLY
*But this is not happening."

And exactly this is what IS happening with the launcher from ESO's website. There is NO old files available to download - you know, this is not steam -.

A friend of mine just did exactly the same what OP is whining about to be not allowed to do. Removed the old files and had 120GB free, then launcher told him, need 5 more. He cleaned up some more and started the process with 140GB free space. The launcher showed 53GB need to be downloaded, what IS the NEW FILES ONLY. It's a big ZIP archive cutted in pieces of ~2GB sized files. So do some math, there's this giant zip, 53GB + 66.6GB need to install, that's 119.6GB. That giant zip have to be there during the whole process, so you have 5.4GB left for temporary files, also that zip have to be uncompressed somewhere/somehow before the files from it can be installed.

Tell me please how would you do it with only 70GB free space?

Well, I'm not entirely sure if OP was using steam or not, he wasn't clear and detailed at all. What was mentioned was similar to mine, and I mentioned my issue to which OP replied with agreement. Things are not clear, issues and bugs can happen in many scenarios that can only be made clear with discussion. OP wasn't clear, specific and detailed about the issue to which I posted details of mine which may or may not be the same thing. It is entirely possible that my issues with downloading via steam may be present in the download via the non-steam way, that is why I posted additional details of the problems I had similarly. I might be entirely wrong about it or OP himself might have his own misunderstandings. Given this, I don't see how it is unreasonable for me to contribute to this discussion in this manner. Why the hostility in a forum?

In any case,thank you for your detailed info about your friend. So it seems that after all the discussion, it may be better and cleaner to install and download the game through the non-steam method. I was required 140GB of free space to get it running via steam. 87gb download + 53gb download. And other users have mentioned that the method that through steam, it might download the old client of 87gb. On, the other hand, the non-steam version might be doing the same thing, therefore requiring 120gb of free space despite the final folder size being 66gb. Or perhaps that's just the way how it has to work and that there is no possibility of simply being able to download a 66gb game without having double the space available.