Burning light for 4.8k damage - a bit too much?

Baphomet

Please forgive me, I only had 26,000k spell resistance and 21,000k physical resistance on the build I was on, but I still think that getting hit for roughly 4,800 damage on a burning light proc is a bit too much.

It was triggered by biting jabs, so I suspect that it was just another one of those 6,500 weapon damage stam builds that are everywhere these days.

I don't have a stamplar, so is weapon damage buffing burning light out of this world? I know I don't get that kind of proc damage on my 2000 spell damage 46,000 magicka magplar.

Qbiken

You can definitely reach similar numbers on magplar, you just got to stack quite a bit of spell damage and you're good to go (you're better of stacking spelldmg than max mag on magplar since you've access to minor sorcery).

Without knowing the entire context of your encounter, it sounds like your were up against a high weapon damage setup, and potentially you got hit by an onslaught which makes burning light ignore whatever armor you've got.

wheem_ESO

Yes, I think Burning Light is indeed too strong right now, especially given how good Jabs/Sweeps already are on their own. I don't remember seeing any ~4.8k procs in no-CP Battlegrounds, but that would probably be possible after an Onslaught. Still, I have seen plenty of procs that were well in excess of 3k in BGs, and it's kind of silly when that triggers from a 5k to 7.5k Biting Jabs.

Baphomet

Perhaps it would be more prudent to have burning light scale off of your highest resource - magicka or stamina - and then adjust the base damage accordingly.

It probably shouldn't do more than 2,000 - 2,500 k damage like it used to.

Ariades_swe

If you have a good build (no glasscannon) and burning light did a single proc on you for 4.8 k damage without onslaught we're talking about an over 16 k burning light tooltip and well above 10 k if onslaught was used.
Nor sure if it's possible to reach those tooltip numbers for burning light.
Since death recap shows all damage taken 6 seconds before death are u sure it wasnt multiple burning light procs?

MartiniDaniels

Ariades_swe wrote: »

If you have a good build (no glasscannon) and burning light did a single proc on you for 4.8 k damage without onslaught we're talking about an over 16 k burning light tooltip and well above 10 k if onslaught was used.
Nor sure if it's possible to reach those tooltip numbers for burning light.
Since death recap shows all damage taken 6 seconds before death are u sure it wasnt multiple burning light procs?

Well, it can crit... so looks like crit after onslaught. Templar, especially stamplar is like random dice, sometimes it can deal ridiculous damage in 1-2 GCD and sometimes all your jabs do no damage at all because your opponent from server point is not where you see him in client. In CP 45-50% crit chance is quite common so if onslaught and potl and BL will all crit, burst damage can be hilarious.

EtTuBrutus

This was 100% after onslaught, meaning its a part l2p and part op ultimate issue.

EtTuBrutus

Qbiken wrote: »

You can definitely reach similar numbers on magplar, you just got to stack quite a bit of spell damage and you're good to go (you're better of stacking spelldmg than max mag on magplar since you've access to minor sorcery).

Without knowing the entire context of your encounter, it sounds like your were up against a high weapon damage setup, and potentially you got hit by an onslaught which makes burning light ignore whatever armor you've got.

Similar tooltips mean Jack if one is buffed by onslaught and the other isn't.

Destyran

I play magplar and have hit harder than that with burning light I get it in hate whispers I think it’s just a stacked proc when u use jabs and sweep at the same time

Destyran

There is 4 jabs and 4 sweep ticks so it has a .05 cool down and I’m pretty sure it’s just a double proc and it counts as one

ecru

This is your daily reminder that one channel of Jabs and a Burning Light proc does 70% more damage than Dizzying Swing. Every time you hit your target with a 6k Dizzy, that could be a 10.2k channel of Jabs instead.

MashmalloMan

This passive is a rough equivilant of the previous Implossion passive for Stam Sorcs in terms of free and unnecessary damage. Sorc's lost that passive completely and for good reason. The same reasoning they used then, can be said about this passive today.

I do miss my random and free kills, but this proc is a bit overtuned if it's able to dish that much tooltip damage every half second.

Depends on the build of course, but the scaling looks to be a little more than half the damage of the instant spammable damage standard ZOS used on abilities like Silver Shards, Crushing Weapon, Surprise Attack, Stone Fist and Cutting Dive. I'd have to make a new character to check, but eso-sets skillbook does show this to be the case.

So what we have here is Jabs doing bout 1.2x or more damage of all those instant spammables, with a good chance to proc another 0.5x the damage of an instant spammable for free. I think it's very obvious why people complain about stamina having only 2 good spammable options; Jabs and Dizzy Swing. Channeled/Cast time spammables do get a bonus to their total damage which can be seen on Flurry as well, I'd argue this part of the equation is warranted and makes up for the difficulty in cast time. However, damage isn't the only thing Jabs does and the passive adds to it's overall damage output.

Of course, major evasion reduces the damage of Jabs, but I'd argue thats silly to begin with. This should be considererd single target with splash damage, not aoe, at least imo. Silver Shards has similar functionality but is treated as a single target ability as it should. The auxillary effect is making a single target ability do extra cleave damage.

I do like how unique the passive is and I was really bothered losing Implossion for Amplitudes generic reverse execute +10-0% damage done, but if you're going to make 1 spammable snare, aoe, provide major savagery or healing AND free extra damage procs just for using the abilitity, you need to BUFF all the other spammables to be in line.

That being said, ZOS will just nerf Flurry, Jabs and Dizzy to the other instant spammable damage ratios because it's easier to nerf then buff I guess.

MashmalloMan

ecru wrote: »

This is your daily reminder that one channel of Jabs and a Burning Light proc does 70% more damage than Dizzying Swing. Every time you hit your target with a 6k Dizzy, that could be a 10.2k channel of Jabs instead.

Just read this after my message above, this was exactly my thought process if the Jabs is about 1.2x more than instant spammables and the passive is 0.5x. Not to mention you could get 2 procs, but you're usually guaranteed the 1.

Add guaranteed snare, extra aoe damage and a heal/major savagery.

Yiko

Imagine calling for more nerfs to spammables (and elements of them) after everything we've gone through in ESO to lead to a tank meta, butchered class identity, and watered down combat. The game doesn't need less damage - it needs more.

The issue you have is probably with the band-aid fix that is Onslaught, which has been nerfed 4-5 times? And still hasn't addressed core issues like how its 100% penetration interacts with delayed burst and follow-up damage (and allows tankier builds to forego building pen from their total stat budget). The other problem that you may be having is that stamplar's offensive kit allows it to punish players who don't know what they're doing. Is it also possible you weren't wearing full impen?

Maulkin

Yiko wrote: »

Imagine calling for more nerfs to spammables (and elements of them) after everything we've gone through in ESO to lead to a tank meta, butchered class identity, and watered down combat. The game doesn't need less damage - it needs more.

The issue you have is probably with the band-aid fix that is Onslaught, which has been nerfed 4-5 times? And still hasn't addressed core issues like how its 100% penetration interacts with delayed burst and follow-up damage (and allows tankier builds to forego building pen from their total stat budget). The other problem that you may be having is that stamplar's offensive kit allows it to punish players who don't know what they're doing.

Chaotic statement.

First off I know you know that Burning Light is a class passive and not a spammable. The suggestion that it'd be Jabs being nerfed is disingenious and misinformative at best. It's like saying that Implosion change was a nerf to Fury.

Secondly, It was the nerf to DoT damage that made tanks stronger, not changes to spammables. Spammables haven't been nerfed, not across the board anyway. In fact some are stronger now than they have ever been (Whip, Dizzy) and most are unchanged.

The spammables that were nerfed hard are the S&B spammables and thank god, because now you don't see many people block-casting Heroic Slash and doing good damage while turtle-ing. Or (even worse) doing light->heroic->bash and doing great damage while being protected by superior S&B mitigation.

Yiko

Maulkin wrote: »

Chaotic statement.

First off I know you know that Burning Light is a class passive and not a spammable. The suggestion that it'd be Jabs being nerfed is disingenious and misinformative at best. It's like saying that Implosion change was a nerf to Fury.

Secondly, It was the nerf to DoT damage that made tanks stronger, not changes to spammables. Spammables haven't been nerfed, not across the board anyway. In fact some are stronger now than they have ever been (Whip, Dizzy) and most are unchanged.

The spammables that were nerfed hard are the S&B spammables and thank god, because now you don't see many people block-casting Heroic Slash and doing good damage while turtle-ing. Or (even worse) doing light->heroic->bash and doing great damage while being protected by superior S&B mitigation.

I think the chance to proc Burning Light once during Jabs is around 70%, so you are far more likely than not to get the supplementary proc damage using your spammable. It's almost a 1:1 proc/cast chance, so it's reliable. You think it's disingenuous to say that a nerf to Burning Light would be a nerf to Jabs, then you compare it to a 6% proc chance of what was functionally a passive EXECUTE (which could be procced by things like Lightning Form)? Who's being disingenuous here?

And nowhere did I say that nerfing spammables was the sole reason for the tank meta. I actually said "everything we've gone through in ESO" to allude to the notion that there are many contributing factors. I don't want to get into that, but maybe I'll make a post about that this week. The basic takeaway is that ZOS' design choices and vision entail making it harder to do good, reliable damage. The game needs to be more forgiving, they insist! The defensive skill floor is constantly being raised, etc etc.

Dizzy is NOT stronger than it's ever been. It can only cc every ~21 seconds with the off balance changes now and never CCs on its own immediately? We've for sure seen stronger iterations of Dizzy (recently even!) and of course Wrecking Blow back in the day.
Whip was changed and is considered a nerf by most high level MDKs.
Surprise Attack was nerfed, and sNBs are generally in the gutter in small scale gameplay outside of farming pugs.
Wardens' recently changed bird spammable was just nerfed due to the severe restriction of off balance uptime.
Swallow Soul had a cost increase and had its heal cut.
Master's Staff + Reach was nerfed as a spammable.


I do agree about the SnB spammables, though. That skill line doesn't need offense built into it.