How to fix pvp. How to maximize a change. How to understand what you can and can't change.

JumpmanLane · February 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Here is the thing, Lag is something that isn't just from the Eso servers. It has to do with what specs you are using, to the internet service provider to geological location. Many factors play a part, you can have the best specs best internet provider, best everything. Still be really lagging in the game. While some person next door might have the worst internet the worst specs and yet still have better performance then the very best player with the best of everything. It depends on routing methods what router you use also if you have a fire wall. If the game is able to bypass that fire wall, if you have like some anti virus/computer protection program it might or might not effect it depends on how good your specs are think but even then it might reduce it a little bit.

There are things you can do to help your own performance outside of specs port forwarding so the game can work better then if your not port forwarding the connection. Some people should do this with their games if they have not done it already it might help with Eso performance.

Then it comes down to the client and the server and the performance killers that downgrades game play. Creating far more lag then is normal to the point even the best specs are lagged out. Could be wrong or mixed up about this, The Client draws from files from your computer, the server is what draws on that information, basically its routing information to them and then back to you. Short version, Its a two way connection between your comp/platform and the Eso servers. That connection can be desynced causing performance to go down on your end and on the Zos servers.
When your canceling animations and appearing to do things faster but in reality your client is giving you false information because your actually desyning it if the Dev explanation is true. As the client is doing more before the server even gets the information. That is why you die even if you block. Fixing these Desyncs you do to yourself and other players is one vital part in helping performance.

So they reworked the shields to fix some of that. They are also going to do something with Aoe's to make them work better with the server and client. So what I'm understanding here is they are trying to make it so client and server communicate better. Which is a cause of many issues with even the highest specs having very bad lag. Some of it not all can be caused by the communication or a good chunk of it. What can also causes performance to go down the amount of resources resources the game has to draw on and route. Another is the amount of calculations this game has. Reducing those will improve performance as well.

So the issues are far more complex then dealing with them simply. Maybe with another mmo but this isn't just like any other mmo this is Eso and well its more complicated. For one this game has a lot of stuff in it. Most mmos don't get up to 82 gbs. Eso does. It will become 67 gbs which will help with reinstall. Game won't have to draw on as many resources. Now as for Mmo size two mmos I have played besides Eso most recently. Neverwinter which is only 29.8 gbs. Star Trek Online is 36.6 Gbs. Combining Neverwinter and Star Trek Online Together you only get 66.4 with the reinstall the game with be slightly bigger then two cryptic mmos combined. So the amount of resources this game takes up also is a factor in unplayable lag. So all that coding in the game files the client/server draws from could factor in when it comes to performance.

Gist of it.
Specs/Geological location, Internet Service Provider/Router, Client/Server/Code/Game Size are all factors in the performance at least when it comes to pc version. Consoles have the forced subscription and other coding with them that might effect server performance on them. So there is many factors for the lag. So it can't just be simply fixed. There is just to much on their end that has to be addressed and there is stuff you can do on your end if you need to improve performance or make things better.

I read everything you wrote and I agree the lag is not a eazy fix. Which is why I believe just design or readjusting skill to preform during lag is the best solution. Create and encourage skills that create reaction time is key. Reduce the range of melee attacks. So a gap closer gameplay is encourage. Which create reaction time. All UNBLOCKABLE stuns should have a cast time for reaction. Move the stun and do damage should be lower in damage. Delay burst moves should have color rework. The abilities options that you are affected by should have a rework to display delay burst move better with a counter.(this should not be a add on)
This is a more realistic approach.

Ok, first my boba fides. I main MAGICKA DRAGONKNIGHT. That means I’m gonna Fossilize a dummy as much as I can, whenever I can, as fast as I can.

Being a MagDk, I’ve noticed this. GOOD players are up and out of Fossilize just as soon as it’s applied. BAD PLAYERS, especially under 1/4 health generally die...soon after getting Fossilized. REALLY BAD players whine about the skill itself, in hate tells or here in the forums.

If you can’t be bothered to do even the rudiments of defense (block, break free, dodge roll, SOMETHING), then maybe PvP isn’t for you. Maybe PvE isn’t. I unno.

In competitive gaming, one must COMPETE. All the nerfs in the world won’t change that. In the end, ya gotta compete...and participation trophies look an awful lot like tbags to me lol. “Thanks for coming out!”

Thevampirenight · February 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Here is the thing, Lag is something that isn't just from the Eso servers. It has to do with what specs you are using, to the internet service provider to geological location. Many factors play a part, you can have the best specs best internet provider, best everything. Still be really lagging in the game. While some person next door might have the worst internet the worst specs and yet still have better performance then the very best player with the best of everything. It depends on routing methods what router you use also if you have a fire wall. If the game is able to bypass that fire wall, if you have like some anti virus/computer protection program it might or might not effect it depends on how good your specs are think but even then it might reduce it a little bit.

There are things you can do to help your own performance outside of specs port forwarding so the game can work better then if your not port forwarding the connection. Some people should do this with their games if they have not done it already it might help with Eso performance.

Then it comes down to the client and the server and the performance killers that downgrades game play. Creating far more lag then is normal to the point even the best specs are lagged out. Could be wrong or mixed up about this, The Client draws from files from your computer, the server is what draws on that information, basically its routing information to them and then back to you. Short version, Its a two way connection between your comp/platform and the Eso servers. That connection can be desynced causing performance to go down on your end and on the Zos servers.
When your canceling animations and appearing to do things faster but in reality your client is giving you false information because your actually desyning it if the Dev explanation is true. As the client is doing more before the server even gets the information. That is why you die even if you block. Fixing these Desyncs you do to yourself and other players is one vital part in helping performance.

So they reworked the shields to fix some of that. They are also going to do something with Aoe's to make them work better with the server and client. So what I'm understanding here is they are trying to make it so client and server communicate better. Which is a cause of many issues with even the highest specs having very bad lag. Some of it not all can be caused by the communication or a good chunk of it. What can also causes performance to go down the amount of resources resources the game has to draw on and route. Another is the amount of calculations this game has. Reducing those will improve performance as well.

So the issues are far more complex then dealing with them simply. Maybe with another mmo but this isn't just like any other mmo this is Eso and well its more complicated. For one this game has a lot of stuff in it. Most mmos don't get up to 82 gbs. Eso does. It will become 67 gbs which will help with reinstall. Game won't have to draw on as many resources. Now as for Mmo size two mmos I have played besides Eso most recently. Neverwinter which is only 29.8 gbs. Star Trek Online is 36.6 Gbs. Combining Neverwinter and Star Trek Online Together you only get 66.4 with the reinstall the game with be slightly bigger then two cryptic mmos combined. So the amount of resources this game takes up also is a factor in unplayable lag. So all that coding in the game files the client/server draws from could factor in when it comes to performance.

Gist of it.
Specs/Geological location, Internet Service Provider/Router, Client/Server/Code/Game Size are all factors in the performance at least when it comes to pc version. Consoles have the forced subscription and other coding with them that might effect server performance on them. So there is many factors for the lag. So it can't just be simply fixed. There is just to much on their end that has to be addressed and there is stuff you can do on your end if you need to improve performance or make things better.

I read everything you wrote and I agree the lag is not a eazy fix. Which is why I believe just design or readjusting skill to preform during lag is the best solution. Create and encourage skills that create reaction time is key. Reduce the range of melee attacks. So a gap closer gameplay is encourage. Which create reaction time. All UNBLOCKABLE stuns should have a cast time for reaction. Move the stun and do damage should be lower in damage. Delay burst moves should have color rework. The abilities options that you are affected by should have a rework to display delay burst move better with a counter.(this should not be a add on)
This is a more realistic approach.

Sounds like you want pvp mechanics built more your way then actually improving performance. They have been adding reaction times to abilties and they did that with Ultimates.
Abilities do contribute to the lag especially If they effect a lot of people at once and keep being spammed. Healing Springs was changed because it was really hurting performance it was a stop gag measure. There is a reason why they made it just one orb not three.
Some abilties they made changes too sometime back so you have to be in a group with players for those abilties to effect them is also another big one. It was another stop gag fix. When group was broken for players on PC Na or Eu. Performance in Cyrodiil was so much better to the point of being playable according to threads I saw on the forums even made a poll asking if players wanted to see it remain broken during that time frame. So those abilities that only work in groups and group stacking really hurts performance. Without groups and group stacking pvp is more playable. So I do think the Aoe is one of the biggest issues especially healing aoe and buff aoe like Rapid Maneuvers.
Stacking of heals and group buffs that is the true issue.

They are reworking Aoe abilties for a reason it was mentioned in their live stream. This and not adding more gap closer and nerfing melee is going to help performance the most in pvp. Those are just wishful nerfs and buffs. Not Performance Solutions.

I agree with your point of view. While still agreeing with my point of view. Some people see a problem complex problem in just how to fix terms. Which is a home run if you hit the ball. And that all that matter to them. As for me and mostly life experiences. I see a complex problem as a calculated risk first. For me your solution success rate is 30%. For if it dont work. Well now you have to try something else. My solution is guarantee to work. Because your making a combat system based on lag and playing with it.

There is a variety of problems, they can be either simple, moderate or complex. Why only fix the simple ones when you can work on trying to fix all three types? So simple solutions, moderate solutions and complex solutions in a game this big have to be taken to keep it running smoothly. If they ignore certain issues while working just simple ones they are going to see a mass exodus of players. So they got to be more proactive and fix and find solutions to all the problems they can when it comes to performance. Though I'm happy you agree with me. It isn't me working the performance changes. The Devs will do what they will have to do, we can give them suggestions doesn't mean they will use them.

Kalik_Gold · February 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

Fix PvP? FIX THE PERFORMANCE

In reality, adjust the gameplay for lag. Think of it as input lag adjustment.

That is still Performance.... If my moves aint going off. I can't PvP

ZOS_Ragnar · February 2020

We have removed some posts from this thread that were not adding value to the discussion or were posted to bait others. Thank you for your understanding.