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Ysbriel

Though it’s a common thing on every MMORPG to have some sort of grinding, it definitely sucks when you have either invested time grinding for a set or grinding for the currency (Tel var, AP or Gold) to acquire a set and the nerf hammer gets applied and whatever you were building is dead on arrival.

ps: same reason i’ve barely olayed for the past teo weeks and i’m very hesitant to preorder the new dlc

Hanokihs

Vahrokh wrote: »

Most MMOs are made with so little content that they have to create massive grinds to stall players and keep them "engaged".

It's a crappy but effective way to create content, from WoW to any Korean grinder to ESO it's all the same.

"BUT BUT BUT MMOs are meant to be like that".

Yeah, sure, Sherlock, please take more of the koolaid, you simp.

Now, imagine if you went to the cinema and the movie lasted 20 minutes in total, but you had to jog around the room every 2 minutes before you could see the next 1 minute segment. Yeah, it would last like a full length movie, but you'd still have paid for a full movie and only seen 20 minutes.

The flaw in this argument is that, had movie theaters always been this way, everyone would be defending the status quo and calling people "butt resting plebs" or something for wanting to sit in a chair and enjoy a film. And gyms would have cardio theaters, I guess.

Actually I kinda like this hypothetical world you've created. Lol pairs prettily with that treadmill gaming trend from a few years back.

vestahls

If every set could be both grinded and crafted, guaranteed even the people who voted Yes would rather just craft it.

DocDova

Though I voted 'No' But there is not that much grind here, yeah every now and then someone might not get item they are looking for, But it's not that hard. Then there are so many options out there, my Main is a Nord Dragonknight running Briarheart, vicious serpent and velidreth and I am OK with that, To be honest never felt need to get trial sets.

My No was more in line with, that No I am satisfied with my sets and don't wanna grind.

This game (MMO in general but this one for me) is not that you play for just getting something/doing something. It's a social life, I farm, I do daily writs on 17 characters (would collect some two thousand surveys in my house storage), I run around, have fun.

Before ESO, gaming was like finishing new games and getting trophies and going for next game.

Kiralyn2000

Darkstorne wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Not sure what the issue is here - I've had to do some sort of "grinding for gear" in every MMO I've ever played. How hard that grinding is (and what kind of grinding it is) varies by MMO & level of gear (crafted/world/dungeon/raid), but it's still a basic part of the genre. /shrug

Yet another creatively bankrupt "This is how MMOs have always worked, so this is how MMOs should always work" response on these forums...

I value my time. I appreciate games that value my time. BoE sets follow supply/demand metrics, and dungeon sets will always be rarer than overland sets. Making dungeon sets BoE would provide a fantastic way to make extra gold for those who enjoy the grind, and provide a much more enjoyable game for those that don't. It's win/win.

It's not "MMOs have always been like that, so why change". Perhaps it's just that I've always played "loot" games - MMOs, RPGs, ARPGs, etc. And I've always played them single-player. So the idea of "need to go adventure & kill lots of stuff to get treasure" is just a basic thing to me. It's the gameplay - I'm not interested in skipping the gameplay, if I was I wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. /shrug

I play D3 and PoE "SSF" (solo, self-found - i.e, no trading for loot). I rarely buy gear from auction houses in MMOs (and in this one, I don't sell anything because of the guild vendor system). In single-player RPGs, well - obviously I don't trade for gear.



edit: honestly, though - the few games I've seen that were total-BoE? Their economies were a mess.

Shantu

Personally, I despise any type of grind. It's much more tolerable if there is a known reward at some fixed point. But when you throw the RGN on top of it all, it can become absurdly annoying. RGN is just a lazy design concept. It requires little thought and creativity. It also leverages the compulsion to win by chance to keep you engaged in the same manner gambling does. None of this feels good to me. Never understood it really. You design a terrific game and then decide it's a good idea to throw in elements that annoy the crap out of players. Again, it's just a product of lazy, uncreative minds.

Royaji

Vahrokh wrote: »

Most MMOs are made with so little content that they have to create massive grinds to stall players and keep them "engaged".

It's a crappy but effective way to create content, from WoW to any Korean grinder to ESO it's all the same.

"BUT BUT BUT MMOs are meant to be like that".

Yeah, sure, Sherlock, please take more of the koolaid, you simp.

Now, imagine if you went to the cinema and the movie lasted 20 minutes in total, but you had to jog around the room every 2 minutes before you could see the next 1 minute segment. Yeah, it would last like a full length movie, but you'd still have paid for a full movie and only seen 20 minutes.

If you were to pay 10-15 $ per two hours of ESO like you do with movies, ZOS would probable be able to afford enough employees to pump out content at the same speed you consume it. And then you can definitely get full set of gold gear after one run of any dungeon...

stevenyaub16_ESO

I do for armor.

But grinding weapons is really not fun.

1/33 chance for specific weapon drop from 1 boss is just too low a chance. compared to 1/15 chance of right armor piece from 3-5 bosses.

If they made chests (in dungeons) guarantee a weapon drop, that would go ALONG way to making farming less aggravating.

Kaartinen

Yes, I enjoy it, but only because of the transmutation system.

If it wasn't for the ability to change traits, the grind would be just as dismal as a game like Destiny 2.

Nestor

I use Crafted Weapons and Jewelry, so no grind is needed. Especially with Transmute for the other Gear Drops. One or two Runs with a cooperative group and I have all I need.

I am not going to kid myself that the extra 1% to 2% that the Meta builds have is going to make any difference.

Aelorin

The RNG for some sets has been terrible for me. I only seem to get medium armor pieces for the Valkyn Skoria monser set. That is hat and shoulders,not fun anymore after the 5th time.

dazee

Cant answer becuase it depends. Grinding is good when fun, when it gets monotonous is when its bad. also *** RNG is always bad. nothing should ever have less than 1% chance to drop, even the rarest items.

JinMori

I said yes, because when i was playing i really liked doing as much dps as possible on bosses, but it would depend on the set.

d0e1ow

I mean, yeah, I do. What else is there to do? Grind Champ Points? The whole point of those is they come as you play. Do quests? They don't really progress your character beyond titles and some cosmetics sometimes. I love the storytelling in ESO a lot, but the only real grind in the game is the sets.

Unpopular opinion, but I'd like it if they would give us even more treadmills to run. More stuff to grind is good in an MMORPG.

Rave the Histborn

Vahrokh wrote: »

Most MMOs are made with so little content that they have to create massive grinds to stall players and keep them "engaged".

It's a crappy but effective way to create content, from WoW to any Korean grinder to ESO it's all the same.

"BUT BUT BUT MMOs are meant to be like that".

Yeah, sure, Sherlock, please take more of the koolaid, you simp.

Now, imagine if you went to the cinema and the movie lasted 20 minutes in total, but you had to jog around the room every 2 minutes before you could see the next 1 minute segment. Yeah, it would last like a full length movie, but you'd still have paid for a full movie and only seen 20 minutes.

The flaw in your argument is that you paid to get into the movie so your are subject to how the movie is run even if it is 20min and your had to jog. You paid and accepted knowing how the movie was going to be run and now you're crying that the movie is run that way. It's a part of the game in every RPG not just MMOs

d0e1ow

Shantu wrote: »

Personally, I despise any type of grind. It's much more tolerable if there is a known reward at some fixed point. But when you throw the RGN on top of it all, it can become absurdly annoying. RGN is just a lazy design concept. It requires little thought and creativity. It also leverages the compulsion to win by chance to keep you engaged in the same manner gambling does. None of this feels good to me. Never understood it really. You design a terrific game and then decide it's a good idea to throw in elements that annoy the crap out of players. Again, it's just a product of lazy, uncreative minds.

It doesn't annoy everyone, and it's not because they are lazy. It's quite the opposite: it's because players burn through "one and done" content at an extremely fast rate and then ask "Ok, what now?" Games like SWTOR launched with like 8 individual, 40+ hour long stories on top of dungeons and leveling game. People hit end game within a WEEK and asked, "Where is the content?" Bioware figured people would just re-roll, but that's not what happened. What happened is people left the game in droves.

Developers can't create new experiences at the rate at which people demand them, so they turn to grinding and repetition and "hard mode" type stuff instead. It works. It works for WoW, it works here, it works in BDO, it works in Diablo, it works in PoE, it works in Everquest. It works. A lot of us play these games because they aren't one and done, but because they have grindy things in them.

I love story updates and questlines, but if the developers want me to play the game for more than 1 week out of a 12 month year then they gotta give me something to sink my teeth in to. Long term character development and grind. If someone else has a better solution, I'm all for it, but I have yet to see it.

x48rph

Do I like it? No, of course not, I'd rather do other things then run the same dungeon or trial 30 times just to farm gear.

Do I mind it? Not really, it's standard practice in MMOs to grind for stuff. Some do it much better than others of course. ESO isn't too bad though it could possibly use a way to pick gear after so many attempts. Sort of like you can spend more keys to get a better shot at the moster shoulder you want, they need something like that for weapons. Take the ridiculously low drop chances for a BSW inferno staff, would be nice after your like 50th try if there was a way to just "buy" it.

albertberku

.

d0e1ow

albertberku wrote: »

If you need the grind to keep playing a game, maybe you should think about playing it again. When i am in Cyrodiil, i can play hours long. And the next day i want to play more. It keeps getting more and more fun. I used to and still play Ultima Online for example. It is a sandbox MMORPG and there is absolutely zero content and nothing new gets added since 20 years. We still play it. As we still play Dark Souls. It is possible to love the game and the gameplay itself.

Grinding is part of the game, and to do the grind requires engaging in gameplay. lol So uhh... yeah. I like the game and the grind is a part of that.

Tsar_Gekkou

Been trying to get a Hollowfang lightning staff to drop for almost 3 months now. It wasn't fun the first run through, and it still isn't fun now.

Kiralyn2000

albertberku wrote: »

If you need the grind to keep playing a game, maybe you should think about playing it again. When i am in Cyrodiil, i can play hours long. And the next day i want to play more.

It could be argued that hours and hours and hours of The Same Old Cyro PvP... is grinding. Especially for the people who do it not because they enjoy it, but because the "have" to unlock the skill lines.

Commandment

I'm not suprised more people dislike grinding for gear. I mean wouldn't it be amazing if we could just be entitled to all the contents of the game without a ounce of work?

Rikumaru

The change made to dungeon gear making it bind on pickup was a huge mistake. The only gear in the game which should be bind on pickup is trial gear. Outside of that, everything should be buyable. So many of my friends who have tried ESO just quit because of how long it takes getting a real build together and playing fun content.

They need to:

A: Grinding to 160 cp.
B: Grinding out sets (often requiring dungeon sets at the very least).
C: Grinding out skill lines such as psijic and undaunted, the former universally accepted as being mind-numbingly boring.

Not too sure why people would be against having pointless grinds such as these reduced / made easier. The only thing it's doing is driving many new players away from this game.

AlnilamE

Rikumaru wrote: »

The change made to dungeon gear making it bind on pickup was a huge mistake. The only gear in the game which should be bind on pickup is trial gear. Outside of that, everything should be buyable. So many of my friends who have tried ESO just quit because of how long it takes getting a real build together and playing fun content.

They need to:

A: Grinding to 160 cp.
B: Grinding out sets (often requiring dungeon sets at the very least).
C: Grinding out skill lines such as psijic and undaunted, the former universally accepted as being mind-numbingly boring.

Not too sure why people would be against having pointless grinds such as these reduced / made easier. The only thing it's doing is driving many new players away from this game.

1. CP are account wide, so you only need to get to CP 160 once.
2. and 3. You can now buy the skill lines if you've done it on one character.

Also, what makes trials more special than dungeons? Why should their gear be BoP, but not dungeons? I'd say do neither or both. And I'm fine with them being BoP.

d0e1ow

AlnilamE wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

The change made to dungeon gear making it bind on pickup was a huge mistake. The only gear in the game which should be bind on pickup is trial gear. Outside of that, everything should be buyable. So many of my friends who have tried ESO just quit because of how long it takes getting a real build together and playing fun content.

They need to:

A: Grinding to 160 cp.
B: Grinding out sets (often requiring dungeon sets at the very least).
C: Grinding out skill lines such as psijic and undaunted, the former universally accepted as being mind-numbingly boring.

Not too sure why people would be against having pointless grinds such as these reduced / made easier. The only thing it's doing is driving many new players away from this game.

1. CP are account wide, so you only need to get to CP 160 once.
2. and 3. You can now buy the skill lines if you've done it on one character.

What they really want is to just log in with a pre-made character so they can "do raids".

LordLomax

Darkstorne wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Not sure what the issue is here - I've had to do some sort of "grinding for gear" in every MMO I've ever played. How hard that grinding is (and what kind of grinding it is) varies by MMO & level of gear (crafted/world/dungeon/raid), but it's still a basic part of the genre. /shrug

Yet another creatively bankrupt "This is how MMOs have always worked, so this is how MMOs should always work" response on these forums...

I value my time. I appreciate games that value my time. BoE sets follow supply/demand metrics, and dungeon sets will always be rarer than overland sets. Making dungeon sets BoE would provide a fantastic way to make extra gold for those who enjoy the grind, and provide a much more enjoyable game for those that don't. It's win/win.

Dungeon sets used to be boe before one Tamriel

LordLomax

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

I like grinding in general, its the "salt" of enjoying a game. But I hate grinding as it is in ESO. The rng algorithm as is it designed right now makes it more annoying than enjoyable.

70+ times SS. 0 FGD Inferno staff. (around 10+ lightning)
50+ MoL. 0 Alksoh Lightning staff.
Hours and hours of grinding in Deshaan. 0 MS Inferno staff.
Hundreds of keys spent in coffers. 0 Valkyn Arm Cops.

And I ve heard of people who have done CoA 200+ times and never got the BSW Inferno while I got it 4 times.

I was almost ready to give up farming vMA but today got Crushing Wall staff (lightning, not inferno, still better than nothing)

I feel the pain I ran VSCP 48 times to get jorvolds lightening staff , the others you mentioned dropped for me easily now I can not get a sanctuary shield to drop

Minyassa

Doing something time-consuming over and over for the sake of a *chance* to get something feels like a punishment.

Juhasow

Darkstorne wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Not sure what the issue is here - I've had to do some sort of "grinding for gear" in every MMO I've ever played. How hard that grinding is (and what kind of grinding it is) varies by MMO & level of gear (crafted/world/dungeon/raid), but it's still a basic part of the genre. /shrug

Yet another creatively bankrupt "This is how MMOs have always worked, so this is how MMOs should always work" response on these forums...

I value my time. I appreciate games that value my time. BoE sets follow supply/demand metrics, and dungeon sets will always be rarer than overland sets. Making dungeon sets BoE would provide a fantastic way to make extra gold for those who enjoy the grind, and provide a much more enjoyable game for those that don't. It's win/win.

It really isn't win/win. Developer would loose money here.

Juhasow

Current way of farming gear may be not perfect but comparing to first few years of the game it's way better now.