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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

Something that's bothered me for a while

fred4
fred4
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The churches and cathedrals in Tamriel. They clearly have a Christian-inspired cross-shaped layout. The religions in Tamriel are not Christian though. How do I reconcile this?
PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • VaranisArano
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    The simple fact that TES Oblivion was heavily inspired by medieval architecture and many of the cathedrals in ESO are likewise heavily inspired by TES Oblivion and/or other types of medieval/gothic architecture? Anything Imperial is pulled straight from Oblivion, which is one of the least original games in terms of its designs in part because it was much more mainstream than Morrowind. Then ZOS cribbed Breton and the Summerset Altmer styles from historical sources and probably didn't bother to think "Huh, what's the theological significance of why the original builders used this particular layout?"

    On the other hand, not all temples are.
    Dunmer - if you take a look around the Tribunal Temple in Mournhold, you'll notice that it's designed around the themes of the Three. Vivec's temple is pretty much a rounded room with himself as the focal point. In Morrowind, their temples tend to be small domed buildings with relics or prayer stones as a focus.

    Orc - the Temple of Ire in Orsinium is very orcish in style, i.e. imposing and blocky.

    Nords - we don't have a ton of examples in ESO yet, but in Skyrim most of their temples tend to be simple buildings with a statue of the main god worshipped there as a focal point.
  • PrayingSeraph
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    Fictional religions are often inspired by real life ones...
  • KillsAllElves
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    fred4 wrote: »
    The churches and cathedrals in Tamriel. They clearly have a Christian-inspired cross-shaped layout. The religions in Tamriel are not Christian though. How do I reconcile this?
    fred4 wrote: »
    The churches and cathedrals in Tamriel. They clearly have a Christian-inspired cross-shaped layout. The religions in Tamriel are not Christian though. How do I reconcile this?

    High elven and imperial temples yes, however the the high elven temples seem to be more castle-esque oriented than roman catholic design. Crhistian churches or ecclesia buildings dont use cathredal or aramic designs-these are more in line with regular square home style boring buildings (this reminds me of nordic temples) I noticed the other races temple designs in eso dont seem to mirrior real world cathedral designs. I noticed redguard buildings in general use towers with round domes abover corner towers, this design limits the stress high winds exert on the corners of walls in the desert thus making structural integrity more rigid.

    Forgot to put this up. Possibly due to a lack of creative imagination.


    Edited by KillsAllElves on February 10, 2020 7:00AM
  • Raisin
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    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.
    Edited by Raisin on February 10, 2020 6:49AM
  • KillsAllElves
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.
  • Aigym_Hlervu
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    If this is true, I see no fun in that fact.
  • VaranisArano
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    I mean, the fact that the cross was a Roman method of execution is sort of the point of why it became a Christian symbol in the first place...

    Sort of makes the Imperials trying to behead us at Helgen look downright humane by comparison.
  • KillsAllElves
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    I mean, the fact that the cross was a Roman method of execution is sort of the point of why it became a Christian symbol in the first place...

    Sort of makes the Imperials trying to behead us at Helgen look downright humane by comparison.

    As a religous historian the furthest back we can see the cross and other T or X torture devices were first used by the assyrians almost 500 years before the roman empire began to exist. The cross predates christianity by almost 1000 years.
    (29AD-33AD)
    The early first, second and early third century believers werent wearing crosses and if they were this would lead roman officials to kill believers until the council of nicae in 325AD. The problem with the cross today is that it was never an object meant to be symbolized and this slips into idolatry and as a believer myself, its abhorrent to see the cross being symbolized.
    If you want to know more about this subject ask me in a private message and ill give you answers with documentation for support.
    As with the cross in video games i look at it as being no correlation between real life ideology, its just a torture device and it makes sense to have similar torture devices in video games. I also believe that eso is not gruesome enough.
  • KillsAllElves
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    If this is true, I see no fun in that fact.


    It is true and unfortunately its human nature. ^^^
  • RaddlemanNumber7
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    There are lots of allusions to IRL religions in the game. Not all of them have any significance for TES Lore.

    I think the churches are only there for aesthetic reasons, part of the medieval European ambience of the Breton and provincial Imperial zones. They're just buildings. Part of the scenery, and nothing more.

    Some religious allusions are there just for fun. I'm sure that in TES Lore the Prophet isn't really meant to be Metal...
    ... or a Satanist

    1567PSF.jpg

    Most of the allusions that do have significance for Lore refer to Hinduism. It's something that I personally enjoy exploring.

    On the whole, I find these allusions to IRL religion enhance the game. They give TES a far greater depth than other games in the genre. Sometimes they can make the game seem a bit edgy, they challenge me, and I don't see that as a bad thing.
    PC EU
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    If this is true, I see no fun in that fact.


    It is true and unfortunately its human nature. ^^^

    I think ignorance is the result of the quality of modern education rather than the human nature.. People are not born educated. Though if they do not possess common knowledge, than.. It is all sad.
  • KillsAllElves
    KillsAllElves
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    If this is true, I see no fun in that fact.


    It is true and unfortunately its human nature. ^^^

    I think ignorance is the result of the quality of modern education rather than the human nature.. People are not born educated. Though if they do not possess common knowledge, than.. It is all sad.

    You got the point! kudos to you for understanding that humans educate or "miseducate" other humans deilibarately for certain reasons😉

    Ignorance is a trait humans have no problem showing to others. However not knowing something is not to ignore it, when others are told something and choose to not listen, read or look at the subject at hand this is ignorance. Preconcieved notions plays a big part in this too.
    Edited by KillsAllElves on February 11, 2020 12:31PM
  • VaranisArano
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Crosses in religion have never been exclusively christian. It's generally different variations of crosses across (heh) different cultures. And TBH any fictional world would probably end up with cross symbolism SOMEWHERE because that's how basic shapes be.

    Edit: Also, acoustics play a lot into church architecture, so there's more to it than just the symbolism when it comes to floorplans.

    Fun fact - most people dont know this but the cross we see in real life isnt a christian symbol, crosses were torture devices.

    I mean, the fact that the cross was a Roman method of execution is sort of the point of why it became a Christian symbol in the first place...

    Sort of makes the Imperials trying to behead us at Helgen look downright humane by comparison.

    As a religous historian the furthest back we can see the cross and other T or X torture devices were first used by the assyrians almost 500 years before the roman empire began to exist. The cross predates christianity by almost 1000 years.
    (29AD-33AD)
    The early first, second and early third century believers werent wearing crosses and if they were this would lead roman officials to kill believers until the council of nicae in 325AD. The problem with the cross today is that it was never an object meant to be symbolized and this slips into idolatry and as a believer myself, its abhorrent to see the cross being symbolized.
    If you want to know more about this subject ask me in a private message and ill give you answers with documentation for support.
    As with the cross in video games i look at it as being no correlation between real life ideology, its just a torture device and it makes sense to have similar torture devices in video games. I also believe that eso is not gruesome enough.

    Thanks for the extra history lesson.

    My point, such as it was, agreed with you that yes, crosses were instruments of torture and execution. Furthermore, my point was that a passing familiarity with Christianity ought to clue someone in that a cross is an instrument of torture and execution, seeing as how the reason it's a fairly common Christian symbol is because a cross was the method used to execute Jesus. Its a symbol now because it was an instrument of torture.

    I quite agree with you that crosses can be used in games in their function as instruments of torture and execution without any particular religious significance. Fallout: New Vegas is a pretty good example of that, seeing as how Caesar's Legion faction is copying the Roman methods.
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