Activity finder for trials

rexagamemnon

So the question is, would you like to see trials as an option and other events like black rose prison and dragonstar arena as part of the activity finder alongside dungeons, battlegrounds and cyrodill

starkerealm

No

From another time someone brought this up:

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

oxygen_thief

have you ever been in the batlegrounds? i guess you dont know what you are asking for

Aznarb

No

In which universe do you need 2 tank for vHRC ?
Pretty bad exemple, vSS, vHRC and vAA are doing in PU a lot.
The only requirement asked in general is to have the success to prove you've doing it at least one time.

They're not that hard.
For the other that another story.

That said I agree, trial finder is not a good idea.
Well, DG finder is also not a good idea if you wanna hm some of the hardest DLC.

In an other hand, why not ? It's like DG finder, I'm free to not using it and that what I do, I only pug with confirmed people (raid too) not with the 1st random or GF random.

jd24

No

Go look at LFR for wow to see why it's a bad idea. Devs devote time to trivialize mechanics so pugs can complete it.

It would create a layer of anonymity for the playerbase. People would shirk to let the rest of the team carry them because they will disappear right after the trial ends.

In the end you would only be helping a few antisocial people find a group but hurt the majority along with hurting the game as a whole.

redgreensunset

No

Not overly experienced in trials but this sounds like the recipe for pure, unmitigated disaster. Dungeon pugs are bad enough, this would be another level of horrible altogether.

ayu_fever

Yes

in trials or dlc dungeons you have a less than 1% chance you might clear it when pugs are involved, but some players depend on matchmaking to do group content so i say give them that opportunity.
the rest of us will play with our guilds and this change doesnt affect us at all so stop whining about them having a way to at least try to play trials.

Agenericname

No

ayu_fever wrote: »

in trials or dlc dungeons you have a less than 1% chance you might clear it when pugs are involved, but some players depend on matchmaking to do group content so i say give them that opportunity.
the rest of us will play with our guilds and this change doesnt affect us at all so stop whining about them having a way to at least try to play trials.

I cant really speak for trials nearly as much, but I clear vDLCs dungeons on an almost daily basis, many in PUGs. I'd put the fail rate of non-HM attempts at less than 10%.

starkerealm

No

Agenericname wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

in trials or dlc dungeons you have a less than 1% chance you might clear it when pugs are involved, but some players depend on matchmaking to do group content so i say give them that opportunity.
the rest of us will play with our guilds and this change doesnt affect us at all so stop whining about them having a way to at least try to play trials.

I cant really speak for trials nearly as much, but I clear vDLCs dungeons on an almost daily basis, many in PUGs. I'd put the fail rate of non-HM attempts at less than 10%.

Vet dungeon and vet trials are not comparable in this case. Vet trials include many mechanics which require tightly coordinated teamwork, and one player going off script can cause a wipe on a number of bosses.

Agenericname

No

starkerealm wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

in trials or dlc dungeons you have a less than 1% chance you might clear it when pugs are involved, but some players depend on matchmaking to do group content so i say give them that opportunity.
the rest of us will play with our guilds and this change doesnt affect us at all so stop whining about them having a way to at least try to play trials.

I cant really speak for trials nearly as much, but I clear vDLCs dungeons on an almost daily basis, many in PUGs. I'd put the fail rate of non-HM attempts at less than 10%.

Vet dungeon and vet trials are not comparable in this case. Vet trials include many mechanics which require tightly coordinated teamwork, and one player going off script can cause a wipe on a number of bosses.

Yes. That why I specified dungeons, and quoted it.

idk

Some other answer with explanation

I have seen the train wrecks of groups that the AF puts together for dungeons and that will be even worse for trials. I would never use a trial GF to find a group because it is far to easy to spend a short period of time to form a group significantly better than what I could get in a random group via the activity finder.

In other words, I really do not care. However, I think it would be a bad idea for Zos to add trials to the GF. To many players that would use the GF are just bad with mechanics. Without a true leader who is knowledgeable many groups would devolve into blaming each other for the groups failure and we have seen dungeon threads that clearly support this claim. It would just be a bad business decision to add them.

idk

Some other answer with explanation

jd24 wrote: »

Go look at LFR for wow to see why it's a bad idea. Devs devote time to trivialize mechanics so pugs can complete it.

It would create a layer of anonymity for the playerbase. People would shirk to let the rest of the team carry them because they will disappear right after the trial ends.

In the end you would only be helping a few antisocial people find a group but hurt the majority along with hurting the game as a whole.

In every MMORPG with the equivalent of trials that have been added to their activity finder they have had to dumb down the mechanics. Some that I have returned to have reduced the mechanics of the baseline trial to absurdity and some have been completely removed. They become a joke.

BejaProphet

Yes

The craglorn normals are easily puggable.

But more importantly, why vote no?

I mean..,a no vote doesn’t mean you won’t use the group finder. The “no” means you don’t think anybody else should be allowed to do so.

Why would you vote that?

Defilted

Yes

Normal only

Agenericname

No

BejaProphet wrote: »

The craglorn normals are easily puggable.

But more importantly, why vote no?

I mean..,a no vote doesn’t mean you won’t use the group finder. The “no” means you don’t think anybody else should be allowed to do so.

Why would you vote that?

I'm more or less on the fence, teetering on no. What @Idk said about the mechanics being watered down would be my concern. Otherwise it wouldn't truly bother me.

I don't think people understand what they're asking for though. People tank normal trials now with 16k health. We would see fake tanks and fake healers just like we do in dungeons, but getting rid of them or filling the group when a few left in protest would take much longer.

WoW's LFR often had chat filled with recount followed by "kick x, they bottom DPS" as if removing the lowest DPS would mean there wouldn't be a new one. It was one of the more toxic environments in that game.

bmnoble

No

Getting a PUG to work together in a Dungeon is hard enough, would not even want to attempt that in a trial.

idk

Some other answer with explanation

BejaProphet wrote: »

But more importantly, why vote no?

I mean..,a no vote doesn’t mean you won’t use the group finder. The “no” means you don’t think anybody else should be allowed to do so.

Why would you vote that?

Because one might think it is bad for the game as I explained.

thissocalledflower

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So the question is, would you like to see trials as an option and other events like black rose prison and dragonstar arena as part of the activity finder alongside dungeons, battlegrounds and cyrodill

UM... since when is dungeon finder used for cyrodillydally?

goldenarcher1

Yes

Defilted wrote: »

Normal only

This^^

Na0cho

I’d like to see it for the arena’s

TeamSeinfeld

PUG life is taking the good and the absolute worst. So as long as you have set no expectations, it’s should at least be an option. PUGS have been one of the best parts of the game for me, but also some of the most frustrating, hurtful parts. But again, what’s the harm to have it as an option?

FierceSam

No

starkerealm wrote: »

From another time someone brought this up:

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

+ everything

This is the most truth you are likely to read in this forum ever.

Add to this the fact that players can’t even be honest enough with themselves to actually admit the roles that they, themselves are playing and you have all the ingredients for a game-shaming s***tshow of epic proportions.

You want to have this because deep in your hearts you recognise that you are incapable of actually doing the few things necessary to form a trials group and you want ZOS to do it for you so that when it goes wrong you can blame them rather than yourselves.

ZOS is not your mummy and you are not children whose every waking moment has to be ordered by someone else.

Tsar_Gekkou

No

Fake tanks and fake healers everywhere lmao.

IndianaJames7

Yes

I would possibly add the caveat that a given toon must first have the clear for trial/mini trial content they are queueing for but I don’t see any downsides to this. If you don’t want this feature don’t use it.

Contaminate

No

IndianaJames7 wrote: »

I would possibly add the caveat that a given toon must first have the clear for trial/mini trial content they are queueing for but I don’t see any downsides to this. If you don’t want this feature don’t use it.

There have been dungeon mechanics gutted for being “pug stompers”, trials don’t need to go down the same route.

bmnoble

No

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So the question is, would you like to see trials as an option and other events like black rose prison and dragonstar arena as part of the activity finder alongside dungeons, battlegrounds and cyrodill

Just wanted to mention they turned off the Cyrodiil, version of group finder, not too long ago. I think the interface is still there it just does nothing anymore.

russelmmendoza

Yes

Trial finder requirements.
Cp 810.
Just saying.

Radiance

No

LOL I think of the number of cancelled Qs bc 1 of 4 people declined a Dungeon bc they were afk or some such. Now imagine trying to synchronize 12 people with a Trial Q. Not to mention the pugs as everyone has already mentioned...

Zos would just be opening themselves up to a Hellstorm of BS from people who likely aren't even ready to run Trials if they can't already go to Crag and simply ask one of the many Zone Groups LFM to invite them.

No.

Aznarb

No

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Trial finder requirements.
Cp 810.
Just saying.

Lul, most 810+ are as bad as newcomer.
Success of the wanted raid should be the requirement, so you've to complete it with a structure before be able to queue in Pug.
That how I made group or how the group is made when I'm looking for some vtrial pug.

Anotherone773

Yes

Id like to see group finder for all instanced group content. Have used it in other games, considered it a standard feature for like a decade, was disappointed this game has raids but no PUG for it. I like to be able to run content when i have time. I have a life and i have important stuff to plan and make appts for. I dont have time to do that for some trial guild that requires more commitment than my wife and job combined.

PUG raids allowed me to get a group together in less than 30 minutes pretty much when it was convenient. And i much rather have a blast with some clueless casuals that might not make it past the second boss then with some snobby elitists who think this game is a job professional career and want me to take their equivalent to SATs.


I love pugging. Its so challenging. Trying to complete content with a bunch of rando people you met like 30 seconds ago is awesome. Nope, not sarcasm. That is where the real challenge and real fun is.

Nairinhe

Yes

PUG'ed (and cleared) nHoF with one tank, so I now fear nothing