How the new block is system going to work explained by Zos Gilliam's livestream Twitch Video Clip.

Thevampirenight

Edit; Eariler this month they had a prerecorded video explaining in detail from the Dev Gilliam how the new Block system works.
The community should see so they know what to expect from the new changes. They explained into detail of how Dy sequencing works and how the new blocking system works.
Here you guys go they even made it into a separate video clip so players can see this. Edit;Once the reinstall is finished these new changes will be live so I recommend you really watch this video so you understand what is going on.

phoenixkungfu

omg, I'm honor to be the first to say amazing job posting this. I also would like to say THE NEXT BIG Controversy change please just post a video like this. For the love of god it will cut down on alot of forum issue and player confusion. Please, please, just post a video like this. Great, great, amazing, "I cant give enough" praise job.

actosh

@ZOS_Gilliam to the rescue!

Good work at zos.

Hotdog_23

Thanks

Thevampirenight

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Thanks

You're welcome.

Tommy_The_Gun

It was so nice to hear Gilliamtherogue saying his "greetings" line in an ESO video once more... I kinda miss that

actosh

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

It was so nice to hear Gilliamtherogue saying his "greetings" line in an ESO video once more... I kinda miss that

Me2

MrGarlic

Awesome, really.

But I would love to see how this translates on high ping clients such as we have in Oceania and elsewhere. Especially higher pings than 200ms.

I hope this works with leaping clannfears too

amir412

So basically, Another "nerf" to ani cancel.
Slowly this game will become tab targeting.

Back at the day when servers didnt lagged to ***, animation cancel was twice as fast and caused no desyncs...
Damn this game gone to ***

Deathlord92

These block changes look good

Trancestor

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

Verbal_Earthworm

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Thanks

Your You're welcome.

Thevampirenight

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

I think these changes are being put into place to reduce the sync because there is so much of it going on it might be a factor in performance. They are doing it for a reason. Also they got console players to consider so I think attempting to do what they can do improve performance is something they are working hard on doing this year. I believe the factors of performance and also console performance is the biggest factor in doing this change. Since it is meant to help out with the performance from what I understand.

MartiniDaniels

Good video and explanation. But I think Gilliam is underestimating how all this cancelling and de-sync works in scope of whole burst, and not single attack. Thing is that you can "queue" more attacks to the server even before you see health reduced on your target. Given that another player needs time to react and there is some delay between his client and server... it is (or was) worth to do this animation cancels, and line up your burst (ignoring what you see on screen). There are really small % of fights with comparable opponents (in terms of build and attack speed) where you have clear win. In majority of cases some de-sync kill, death or unbreakable cc is involved - will this change solve those de-syncs.. we'll see.
As for now de-sync is so high in Cyro, that key thing to win is to use "precognition" and act before you receive feedback from server, both on offense and defense.

Wing

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

so did you not watch the video or not comprehend what was said?

YOUR animation canceling, what YOU see on your screen is NOT indicative of what others are seeing or experiencing, and the only person your tricking or messing with is yourself.

what others see is your full animations and actual execution of when you block and what your doing.

so YOUR saying "WTF I BLOCKED THAT REEEEEE!!!!"

what the other person (and the SERVER) and the death recap are saying is "no you didn't, have you tried blocking?"

because your seeing animations and numbers play far in advance of when other people and the server see them, your trying to outplay everyone else and your only outplaying yourself.

MartiniDaniels

Wing wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

so did you not watch the video or not comprehend what was said?

YOUR animation canceling, what YOU see on your screen is NOT indicative of what others are seeing or experiencing, and the only person your tricking or messing with is yourself.

what others see is your full animations and actual execution of when you block and what your doing.

so YOUR saying "WTF I BLOCKED THAT REEEEEE!!!!"

what the other person (and the SERVER) and the death recap are saying is "no you didn't, have you tried blocking?"

because your seeing animations and numbers play far in advance of when other people and the server see them, your trying to outplay everyone else and your only outplaying yourself.

Technically, yes. Practically no, because of lag. If you will wait for all animations to end and wait for feedback from server you won't kill anybody unless your build is much better or opponent is of much lesser skill. For example, typical cc->onslaught combo opening. If you will wait for your cc-animation and then for confirmation of cc from server, your opponent will have good chance to break free and roll-dodge before onslaught is landed. Now if you block cancel or bar swap cancel cc and use onslaught immediately before server feedback it will hit almost always. Those 100 ms here and there is a huge difference in combat and animation cancelling allows to squeeze them a bit here and there to receive advantage.

NeillMcAttack

Will this effect a dodge roll cancel. Like if I was to hit my vigor and immediately dodge roll, does the vigor animation have to play first while the server catches up, before allowing me to dodge roll?

Ermiq

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

so did you not watch the video or not comprehend what was said?

YOUR animation canceling, what YOU see on your screen is NOT indicative of what others are seeing or experiencing, and the only person your tricking or messing with is yourself.

what others see is your full animations and actual execution of when you block and what your doing.

so YOUR saying "WTF I BLOCKED THAT REEEEEE!!!!"

what the other person (and the SERVER) and the death recap are saying is "no you didn't, have you tried blocking?"

because your seeing animations and numbers play far in advance of when other people and the server see them, your trying to outplay everyone else and your only outplaying yourself.

Technically, yes. Practically no, because of lag. If you will wait for all animations to end and wait for feedback from server you won't kill anybody unless your build is much better or opponent is of much lesser skill. For example, typical cc->onslaught combo opening. If you will wait for your cc-animation and then for confirmation of cc from server, your opponent will have good chance to break free and roll-dodge before onslaught is landed. Now if you block cancel or bar swap cancel cc and use onslaught immediately before server feedback it will hit almost always. Those 100 ms here and there is a huge difference in combat and animation cancelling allows to squeeze them a bit here and there to receive advantage.

So, basically, same thing again and again: "There shouldn't be a counter play. I want my anicancel combos to successfully hit a target, my enemies shouldn't have time to react and to counter play."

Wing

Ermiq wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

so did you not watch the video or not comprehend what was said?

YOUR animation canceling, what YOU see on your screen is NOT indicative of what others are seeing or experiencing, and the only person your tricking or messing with is yourself.

what others see is your full animations and actual execution of when you block and what your doing.

so YOUR saying "WTF I BLOCKED THAT REEEEEE!!!!"

what the other person (and the SERVER) and the death recap are saying is "no you didn't, have you tried blocking?"

because your seeing animations and numbers play far in advance of when other people and the server see them, your trying to outplay everyone else and your only outplaying yourself.

Technically, yes. Practically no, because of lag. If you will wait for all animations to end and wait for feedback from server you won't kill anybody unless your build is much better or opponent is of much lesser skill. For example, typical cc->onslaught combo opening. If you will wait for your cc-animation and then for confirmation of cc from server, your opponent will have good chance to break free and roll-dodge before onslaught is landed. Now if you block cancel or bar swap cancel cc and use onslaught immediately before server feedback it will hit almost always. Those 100 ms here and there is a huge difference in combat and animation cancelling allows to squeeze them a bit here and there to receive advantage.

So, basically, same thing again and again: "There shouldn't be a counter play. I want my anicancel combos to successfully hit a target, my enemies shouldn't have time to react and to counter play."

pretty much, its the point everything boils down to but nobody wants to admit and actually say it.

Trancestor

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

I think these changes are being put into place to reduce the sync because there is so much of it going on it might be a factor in performance. They are doing it for a reason. Also they got console players to consider so I think attempting to do what they can do improve performance is something they are working hard on doing this year. I believe the factors of performance and also console performance is the biggest factor in doing this change. Since it is meant to help out with the performance from what I understand.

Even if these kind of changes will slightly improve performence, at what cost will that come? After this it will be changes to roll dodge canceling because that also hurts performence, after that it would be to bash canceling and after that it would be to light/heavy attack weaving because all of that also causes server lag and desyncs, of course the server wouldnt be nearly as stressed when the combat becomes much slower and requires less buttons being pressed. Then we are left with a slow clunky combat system that is neither a good tab targeting system nor a good action combat system, and everyone but the questing rp'ers quit the game. Good plan.

Thevampirenight

Trancestor wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

I think these changes are being put into place to reduce the sync because there is so much of it going on it might be a factor in performance. They are doing it for a reason. Also they got console players to consider so I think attempting to do what they can do improve performance is something they are working hard on doing this year. I believe the factors of performance and also console performance is the biggest factor in doing this change. Since it is meant to help out with the performance from what I understand.

Even if these kind of changes will slightly improve performence, at what cost will that come? After this it will be changes to roll dodge canceling because that also hurts performence, after that it would be to bash canceling and after that it would be to light/heavy attack weaving because all of that also causes server lag and desyncs, of course the server wouldnt be nearly as stressed when the combat becomes much slower and requires less buttons being pressed. Then we are left with a slow clunky combat system that is neither a good tab targeting system nor a good action combat system, and everyone but the questing rp'ers quit the game. Good plan.

We know their servers are not the best to many players can cause to many issues. But they do have a responsibility at least to keep them running at least somewhat smoothly. If they have to remove some forms of animation canceling. Like Block and Bash and I do think they do know players like animation canceling. I don't think they would remove every form of it. At least with the removal of block animation canceling it might be enough of a change they could finally remove that horrible yellow thing that makes blocking less appealing if they can prevent the block animation from being canceled. If it could really help performance well that would be good. Even if it drives players away there will always be more and also many might also stay. Some might even praise the move.

There is many things they are doing like the account cold storage. Which might actually help if there is less accounts that will help and there is other things they are doing too. Hopefully their efforts and decreasing the games size by 30 gbs and other efforts they are putting in will help with performance. So hopefully everything they are doing will at least help it get better. So they don't have to do more that might make combat slower and boring as some people like to think of it if there isn't any animation canceling. Removing Animation canceling should be their last resort. So hopefully what they are doing now with their performance plan will be enough.

MartiniDaniels

Ermiq wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

so did you not watch the video or not comprehend what was said?

YOUR animation canceling, what YOU see on your screen is NOT indicative of what others are seeing or experiencing, and the only person your tricking or messing with is yourself.

what others see is your full animations and actual execution of when you block and what your doing.

so YOUR saying "WTF I BLOCKED THAT REEEEEE!!!!"

what the other person (and the SERVER) and the death recap are saying is "no you didn't, have you tried blocking?"

because your seeing animations and numbers play far in advance of when other people and the server see them, your trying to outplay everyone else and your only outplaying yourself.

Technically, yes. Practically no, because of lag. If you will wait for all animations to end and wait for feedback from server you won't kill anybody unless your build is much better or opponent is of much lesser skill. For example, typical cc->onslaught combo opening. If you will wait for your cc-animation and then for confirmation of cc from server, your opponent will have good chance to break free and roll-dodge before onslaught is landed. Now if you block cancel or bar swap cancel cc and use onslaught immediately before server feedback it will hit almost always. Those 100 ms here and there is a huge difference in combat and animation cancelling allows to squeeze them a bit here and there to receive advantage.

So, basically, same thing again and again: "There shouldn't be a counter play. I want my anicancel combos to successfully hit a target, my enemies shouldn't have time to react and to counter play."

There is counter play - to predict what will happen and use timed block/roll-dodge/healing/cc before it happened. For example, you are off-balanced and warden used shalks and you are at 80% HP. Quite obviously there will be heavy attack stun timed with shalks into ultimate. So you block or roll-dodge it or stun warden before shalks hit. Problem here is that you can learn all this only from practice and there is zero info in-game info about... about everything. Maybe I'm wrong but even such basic thing like status effects doesn't have in-game description...

January1171

Thanks so much!

@Gilliamtherogue this was really great. If there are future videos like this, would it be possible to add one of those trackers that also show the keys you're pressing? (It was just a little hard to follow at times what exactly you were doing)

daemonios

Watch the video. Animation cancelling isn't being removed. You can still block-cancel. It's just that after you initially press block, you character will only render the block after it's confirmed the block status with the server, so you won't display as blocking as take full damage from a hit. This was a real thing, many a time I saw the tank die in a trial and go "wtf I blocked that". That doesn't mean we shouldn't wait and see how it works on the PTS/live servers, since playing on an internal server is completely different from playing on a public-facing server hosted off-site. But for people going "onoes there goes my animation cancelling", that is not what this change is about.

Ermiq

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

So will this help fix hp desyncs? Otherwise its just another dumbing down of the combat which will make it feel slower like with cast times...just another step in appeasing the rp casuals.

so did you not watch the video or not comprehend what was said?

YOUR animation canceling, what YOU see on your screen is NOT indicative of what others are seeing or experiencing, and the only person your tricking or messing with is yourself.

what others see is your full animations and actual execution of when you block and what your doing.

so YOUR saying "WTF I BLOCKED THAT REEEEEE!!!!"

what the other person (and the SERVER) and the death recap are saying is "no you didn't, have you tried blocking?"

because your seeing animations and numbers play far in advance of when other people and the server see them, your trying to outplay everyone else and your only outplaying yourself.

Technically, yes. Practically no, because of lag. If you will wait for all animations to end and wait for feedback from server you won't kill anybody unless your build is much better or opponent is of much lesser skill. For example, typical cc->onslaught combo opening. If you will wait for your cc-animation and then for confirmation of cc from server, your opponent will have good chance to break free and roll-dodge before onslaught is landed. Now if you block cancel or bar swap cancel cc and use onslaught immediately before server feedback it will hit almost always. Those 100 ms here and there is a huge difference in combat and animation cancelling allows to squeeze them a bit here and there to receive advantage.

So, basically, same thing again and again: "There shouldn't be a counter play. I want my anicancel combos to successfully hit a target, my enemies shouldn't have time to react and to counter play."

There is counter play - to predict what will happen and use timed block/roll-dodge/healing/cc before it happened. For example, you are off-balanced and warden used shalks and you are at 80% HP. Quite obviously there will be heavy attack stun timed with shalks into ultimate. So you block or roll-dodge it or stun warden before shalks hit. Problem here is that you can learn all this only from practice and there is zero info in-game info about... about everything. Maybe I'm wrong but even such basic thing like status effects doesn't have in-game description...

Funny thing here is you bring Shalks as an example. The ability that is clearly noticeable whether or not it has been anicanceled (it has a visual indication that is not affected by anicancelling) and you always have 3 seconds delay before Shalks combo hit.
Would be better if you gave an example with an instacast abilities combo, because that's the real reason why people argue about anicancelling anyway. How do you counter play the instacast abilities combo that is anicanceled?

Nevasca

amir412 wrote: »

So basically, Another "nerf" to ani cancel.
Slowly this game will become tab targeting.

Back at the day when servers didnt lagged to ***, animation cancel was twice as fast and caused no desyncs...
Damn this game gone to ***

Back in the day people didn't even know how to ani cancel properly like today. Stop with the nostalgia BS. This isn't even a nerf, it's an attempt to bug fix health desyncs which are a huge issue right now.

If you actually payed attention to the video. you will see that everyone will be able to animation cancel, it will just be more consistent with the server performance, rather than client performance, so no desyncs anymore because the server has priority instead of the client.

To be more specific, I will give you two scenarios, live and PTS examples:
Live: I block cancel Killer's Blade and immediatly killed my opponent. My opponent didn't even see me casting anything, or block canceling anything. For him, I was standing still and he just died.

PTS: I block cancel Killer's Blade and kill my opponent. My opponent saw the initial cast and my block cancel animation (which is pretty fast, watch the video and try to spot the difference client-wise), but since it is so fast he died regardless. For him, he saw me ani-canceling and he got killed. Makes sense, he is seeing what I'm doing, even if it is too fast for him to react.

Cronopoly

@ZOS_Gilliam awesome.

Next SNIPE please, or has it been a figment of our imaginations...

You would think with the long arc it would not occur (desyncs), however real world PVP Lag is what we all suspect of course, but would love to hear from the prophet @ZOS_Gilliam on the issue. Forgive me if this was already confirmed by ZOS.

Regards

Master_Kas

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

So basically, Another "nerf" to ani cancel.
Slowly this game will become tab targeting.

Back at the day when servers didnt lagged to ***, animation cancel was twice as fast and caused no desyncs...
Damn this game gone to ***

Back in the day people didn't even know how to ani cancel properly like today. Stop with the nostalgia BS. This isn't even a nerf, it's an attempt to bug fix health desyncs which are a huge issue right now.

If you actually payed attention to the video. you will see that everyone will be able to animation cancel, it will just be more consistent with the server performance, rather than client performance, so no desyncs anymore because the server has priority instead of the client.

To be more specific, I will give you two scenarios, live and PTS examples:
Live: I block cancel Killer's Blade and immediatly killed my opponent. My opponent didn't even see me casting anything, or block canceling anything. For him, I was standing still and he just died.

PTS: I block cancel Killer's Blade and kill my opponent. My opponent saw the initial cast and my block cancel animation (which is pretty fast, watch the video and try to spot the difference client-wise), but since it is so fast he died regardless. For him, he saw me ani-canceling and he got killed. Makes sense, he is seeing what I'm doing, even if it is too fast for him to react.

What lol? Players used animation canceling back then as well as now.

Maybe not during the first days of lightattack spamming with lvl 10 characters in cyro but shortly after release there was already great players animation canceling in duels.

Sandman929

Very well done explanation

Nevasca

Master_Kas wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

So basically, Another "nerf" to ani cancel.
Slowly this game will become tab targeting.

Back at the day when servers didnt lagged to ***, animation cancel was twice as fast and caused no desyncs...
Damn this game gone to ***

Back in the day people didn't even know how to ani cancel properly like today. Stop with the nostalgia BS. This isn't even a nerf, it's an attempt to bug fix health desyncs which are a huge issue right now.

If you actually payed attention to the video. you will see that everyone will be able to animation cancel, it will just be more consistent with the server performance, rather than client performance, so no desyncs anymore because the server has priority instead of the client.

To be more specific, I will give you two scenarios, live and PTS examples:
Live: I block cancel Killer's Blade and immediatly killed my opponent. My opponent didn't even see me casting anything, or block canceling anything. For him, I was standing still and he just died.

PTS: I block cancel Killer's Blade and kill my opponent. My opponent saw the initial cast and my block cancel animation (which is pretty fast, watch the video and try to spot the difference client-wise), but since it is so fast he died regardless. For him, he saw me ani-canceling and he got killed. Makes sense, he is seeing what I'm doing, even if it is too fast for him to react.

What lol? Players used animation canceling back then as well as now.

Maybe not during the first days of lightattack spamming with lvl 10 characters in cyro but shortly after release there was already great players animation canceling in duels.

I am not saying they didn't, but the amount of players who mastered AC in the very early days were very rare.

For the average player it takes a while to master AC. Sure you can AC as a newbie but not as fast and reliably like someone who plays this game for years. It's just not comparable.

But anyway that wasn't the point of my post at all. Point being was that AC will still exist, but your client will wait for the server to avoid desyncs. Curiously, this change is only for block but weapon swap and roll dodge cancel haven't been touched AFAIK.

TheFM

Not a fan of pretty much anything he has done since he got here tbh.