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The State of Magicka Dragonknight
irstarkey57
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Before I start, just let me begin by saying I will do my best to represent my beliefs on the issues of this class based on pure facts. This is thread about magdk issues, though StamDK may be brought up if some of the issues tie in to it. For the most part, however, stamdk will not be brought up as I think it is well known that Stam>Mag in most pvp scenarios. At times I may refer to other class skills in an attempt to compare/show the inadequacy of DK skills. Also, this is mainly going to focus on PvP, though there are clear issues as well in PvE, some of which go hand in hand. Alright.
The Magicka Dragonknight (mdk) has been falling in ranking as far as best pvp classes go now for a long time. If you looked at a graph from the time the game came out until now, you would basically find a diagonal line from the top to the bottom with a few blips here and there. Some of the reasons behind this are direct nerfs to skills (fossilize, whip, wings, etc) but if you look into the class a little deeper, the main underlying cause to the magdk decline is caused by broad changes to the game which have seemed to buff other classes while simultaneously nerfing magdk. A few examples of this are off balance changes, dot damge, the nature of magdk's skill being dots in general, and the introduction of new classes whose skills are just more loaded.
To anyone fighting a magdk from ranged, I am sure you all loved the wings nerf. Please tell me why then that a warden shield that negates ALL damage and gives ult back is still ok. So our main mitigation from ranged takes a huge nerf, but then so does our ability to CC said ranged classes in the form of nerfing fossilize. Yes, fossilize is a very strong skill. Rune cage, also unblockable, and from range. (I think that is the right morph, correct me if I mispoke.) Focused charge from templars. I would rather have that than fossilze. Damage, CC, and sets offbalance. Also cheaper. These are some of the minor issues that should be fairly obvious.
CLASS SPAMMABLE ISSUE. I am sorry to say, but whip just feels like a wet noodle, even wearing something like new moon and bsw, or alfiq and bright throat. The tooltip is just not anything special compared to other classes. Whatever, it is what it is. The molten whip design is seriously just....no. It is terrible and here is why. The developers would like to say that magdk is a class of attrition in the sense that you are supposed to whittle down your opponent with dots. The whole nature of dots is to LET THEM TICK. Well, in order for you to get a whip that actually does some damage, you must first cast three abilities!
1. Each of these abilities is roughly 4k magicka. So in order for me to get a whip proc I have to spend 12k magicka. In comparision, let's think about a sorcerer crit frag which is way stronger....or how about a NB spectral bow? The sorc gets it from playing passively, even putting a shield on, and a NB gets it from simply light attacking.
2. Just the nature of having to have 3 other ardent flame abilities on your bar is an issue in itself. It pretty much dictates your bar! Whip, engulfing, embers, FoO or cauterize, and now you get to pick what you would like for the last skill. It's silly.
3. Lets go back to the choice of skills you have to proc the whip. They are DOTS. The idea behind these are to let them tick on your opponent to whittle them down. How can we keep proccing our whip? Sorry devs but it is just a terrible design flaw. We have to make a choice to lose damage or to lose damage which brings me to my next point.
4. Dots are trash right now. Guess who this effects the most? Hmm. So basically we have a bunch of ardent skill abilities to cast that do very little damage and cost a large amount of rss in order to proc molten whip to actually get some sort of burst.
5. If all this wasn't enough, how about the fact that our dots can be purged. The skills already are extremely weak, at a high cost, but they can also be purged. Templars can purge them all in one go, and a warden can purge one at a time for free! For freakin free...also while gaining 200 recovery, and 2 major buffs....FOR FREE.
So let's say you chose to go with Flame Lash instead. Many of us, including myself, feel that you need to. (This is a point I'm making as a result of the new ridiculous major beserk set coming in Harrowstorm, I can't recall the name. Break free, get the strongest buff in the game..great) So you choose flame lash because you want to choose your skills on the front bar, and you like the heal you get from fossilize. You sacrifice damage to go the more defenseive route. So now your spammable hits pretty weak, and the proc from this one, while good if it lands, can be dodge rolled. Again, lack of damage. And if Harrowstorm goes live, trying to set this proc up will now REWARD your opponent with MAJOR BESERK. WHAT? Lets not forget the off balance changes coming next patch in Harrowstorm. Now flame lash won't even proc more than half the time. So when we need to reliably proc flame flash, nope. So now both whips are garbage....smh. My point in all this is to try and open the devs eyes to the fact that big changes and sets like this have a huge effect on this class that they never think about.
The exploiter passive is also in a stamina tree, making it basically accessible to stamina and not magicka. The mdk doesn't even put 75 cp into thaumature because of the state of dots, so no exploiter for us, a class that relies off of off balance. That passive should be moved to a tree that both stam and mag can access.
COST INCREASES. These pretty much speak for themselves. The cost of our skills is now ridiculous. It is way over the top, everyone knows it and is talking about it. This is no surprise so I won't go into it. Legit just look at the cost of skills and laugh. Our sustain passive is just simply not enough. Battle Roar was nerfed too heavily, combustion is not good enough. It needs reworked.
MAGICKA DAMGE. Why are some of the magdk skills still magicka damage and not flame damage?
ACCESS TO MAJOR BUFFS. Zero? Oh wait, nvm, major mending. How many magdk's out there running fragmented shield? exactly. So what other major buffs to we get that make group pvp viable, solo even for that matter. Pretty much none. Yes, sorcery, from molten armaments, but everyone can get that buff easily with the exception of magblades. Most run degeneration anyway.
SOME THOUGHTS FOR HELPFUL CHANGES
*Decrease cost of skills
*Molten Whip needs a different proc requirement, badly. it is clunky, unreliable, and dictates too much bar space.
*The skills just frankly need buffed. The dots are useless and the main spammable options, being both morphs of whip, are just not competitive anymore. Quite simply.
*Cauterize needs to also give stamDK major savagery just like flames of oblivion does. Stamdks run cauterize, not flames of oblivion. No reason why they shouldn't get that key buff as well
*Wings could use a little help. It isn't as important with the addition of race against time, but for class identity sake, do us a solid. Hell, make it the same as wardens, but wings was a great dk skill that looked awesome and it just....isn't...good anymore.
*Eruption. Ever heard of that skill? Me either.
*Deep breath. See above. Seriously though. This skill has a lot of potential. It is just weak. Maybe because it is magicka damage instead of flame damage. I dunno. No one runs this. Would love to run it, like many other skills, but they just.....aren't....good.
*Uh oh, here we go. WE HAVE NO EXECUTE. Let me think for a second, I believe every other class has access to an execute....i think. (All stamina have access to reverse slice and executioner or whirlwind. Magplar- jesus beam / Sorcerer with mages wrath which has been stupid strong forever but ok...ummm....Magblade with impale. Mag warden I guess doesn't have one but I would imagine that is the only thing they don't have given the list of major buffs you can use. So that leaves us with mag necro. No execute but they do have the passive of basically 100 percent crit in execute range which is well, an execute.) I am not saying give the magdk an execute, but you can look into our passives? They are not nearly as good as many other classes passives. Any kind of bone thrown would be appreciated at this point.
I will stop there before I completely lose my train of thought. I am sure I have left out some main points and I will edit them back in if I remember. Looking forward to what the community has to say/add. Leave the L2P comments if you would like, just do me a favor and read the points first. If you took the time to read it, I appreciate it. Please comment with additional points/concerns you may have. I will be interested to read them. Sorry for the novel, but it has been a long time comiing. CHeers
ZOS, this class really needs a rework. It has gone too far without one and it just feels....discombobulated at best.
Edited by irstarkey57 on January 30, 2020 9:09PM The Magicka Dragonknight (mdk) has been falling in ranking as far as best pvp classes go now for a long time. If you looked at a graph from the time the game came out until now, you would basically find a diagonal line from the top to the bottom with a few blips here and there. Some of the reasons behind this are direct nerfs to skills (fossilize, whip, wings, etc) but if you look into the class a little deeper, the main underlying cause to the magdk decline is caused by broad changes to the game which have seemed to buff other classes while simultaneously nerfing magdk. A few examples of this are off balance changes, dot damge, the nature of magdk's skill being dots in general, and the introduction of new classes whose skills are just more loaded.
To anyone fighting a magdk from ranged, I am sure you all loved the wings nerf. Please tell me why then that a warden shield that negates ALL damage and gives ult back is still ok. So our main mitigation from ranged takes a huge nerf, but then so does our ability to CC said ranged classes in the form of nerfing fossilize. Yes, fossilize is a very strong skill. Rune cage, also unblockable, and from range. (I think that is the right morph, correct me if I mispoke.) Focused charge from templars. I would rather have that than fossilze. Damage, CC, and sets offbalance. Also cheaper. These are some of the minor issues that should be fairly obvious.
CLASS SPAMMABLE ISSUE. I am sorry to say, but whip just feels like a wet noodle, even wearing something like new moon and bsw, or alfiq and bright throat. The tooltip is just not anything special compared to other classes. Whatever, it is what it is. The molten whip design is seriously just....no. It is terrible and here is why. The developers would like to say that magdk is a class of attrition in the sense that you are supposed to whittle down your opponent with dots. The whole nature of dots is to LET THEM TICK. Well, in order for you to get a whip that actually does some damage, you must first cast three abilities!
1. Each of these abilities is roughly 4k magicka. So in order for me to get a whip proc I have to spend 12k magicka. In comparision, let's think about a sorcerer crit frag which is way stronger....or how about a NB spectral bow? The sorc gets it from playing passively, even putting a shield on, and a NB gets it from simply light attacking.
2. Just the nature of having to have 3 other ardent flame abilities on your bar is an issue in itself. It pretty much dictates your bar! Whip, engulfing, embers, FoO or cauterize, and now you get to pick what you would like for the last skill. It's silly.
3. Lets go back to the choice of skills you have to proc the whip. They are DOTS. The idea behind these are to let them tick on your opponent to whittle them down. How can we keep proccing our whip? Sorry devs but it is just a terrible design flaw. We have to make a choice to lose damage or to lose damage which brings me to my next point.
4. Dots are trash right now. Guess who this effects the most? Hmm. So basically we have a bunch of ardent skill abilities to cast that do very little damage and cost a large amount of rss in order to proc molten whip to actually get some sort of burst.
5. If all this wasn't enough, how about the fact that our dots can be purged. The skills already are extremely weak, at a high cost, but they can also be purged. Templars can purge them all in one go, and a warden can purge one at a time for free! For freakin free...also while gaining 200 recovery, and 2 major buffs....FOR FREE.
So let's say you chose to go with Flame Lash instead. Many of us, including myself, feel that you need to. (This is a point I'm making as a result of the new ridiculous major beserk set coming in Harrowstorm, I can't recall the name. Break free, get the strongest buff in the game..great) So you choose flame lash because you want to choose your skills on the front bar, and you like the heal you get from fossilize. You sacrifice damage to go the more defenseive route. So now your spammable hits pretty weak, and the proc from this one, while good if it lands, can be dodge rolled. Again, lack of damage. And if Harrowstorm goes live, trying to set this proc up will now REWARD your opponent with MAJOR BESERK. WHAT? Lets not forget the off balance changes coming next patch in Harrowstorm. Now flame lash won't even proc more than half the time. So when we need to reliably proc flame flash, nope. So now both whips are garbage....smh. My point in all this is to try and open the devs eyes to the fact that big changes and sets like this have a huge effect on this class that they never think about.
The exploiter passive is also in a stamina tree, making it basically accessible to stamina and not magicka. The mdk doesn't even put 75 cp into thaumature because of the state of dots, so no exploiter for us, a class that relies off of off balance. That passive should be moved to a tree that both stam and mag can access.
COST INCREASES. These pretty much speak for themselves. The cost of our skills is now ridiculous. It is way over the top, everyone knows it and is talking about it. This is no surprise so I won't go into it. Legit just look at the cost of skills and laugh. Our sustain passive is just simply not enough. Battle Roar was nerfed too heavily, combustion is not good enough. It needs reworked.
MAGICKA DAMGE. Why are some of the magdk skills still magicka damage and not flame damage?
ACCESS TO MAJOR BUFFS. Zero? Oh wait, nvm, major mending. How many magdk's out there running fragmented shield? exactly. So what other major buffs to we get that make group pvp viable, solo even for that matter. Pretty much none. Yes, sorcery, from molten armaments, but everyone can get that buff easily with the exception of magblades. Most run degeneration anyway.
SOME THOUGHTS FOR HELPFUL CHANGES
*Decrease cost of skills
*Molten Whip needs a different proc requirement, badly. it is clunky, unreliable, and dictates too much bar space.
*The skills just frankly need buffed. The dots are useless and the main spammable options, being both morphs of whip, are just not competitive anymore. Quite simply.
*Cauterize needs to also give stamDK major savagery just like flames of oblivion does. Stamdks run cauterize, not flames of oblivion. No reason why they shouldn't get that key buff as well
*Wings could use a little help. It isn't as important with the addition of race against time, but for class identity sake, do us a solid. Hell, make it the same as wardens, but wings was a great dk skill that looked awesome and it just....isn't...good anymore.
*Eruption. Ever heard of that skill? Me either.
*Deep breath. See above. Seriously though. This skill has a lot of potential. It is just weak. Maybe because it is magicka damage instead of flame damage. I dunno. No one runs this. Would love to run it, like many other skills, but they just.....aren't....good.
*Uh oh, here we go. WE HAVE NO EXECUTE. Let me think for a second, I believe every other class has access to an execute....i think. (All stamina have access to reverse slice and executioner or whirlwind. Magplar- jesus beam / Sorcerer with mages wrath which has been stupid strong forever but ok...ummm....Magblade with impale. Mag warden I guess doesn't have one but I would imagine that is the only thing they don't have given the list of major buffs you can use. So that leaves us with mag necro. No execute but they do have the passive of basically 100 percent crit in execute range which is well, an execute.) I am not saying give the magdk an execute, but you can look into our passives? They are not nearly as good as many other classes passives. Any kind of bone thrown would be appreciated at this point.
I will stop there before I completely lose my train of thought. I am sure I have left out some main points and I will edit them back in if I remember. Looking forward to what the community has to say/add. Leave the L2P comments if you would like, just do me a favor and read the points first. If you took the time to read it, I appreciate it. Please comment with additional points/concerns you may have. I will be interested to read them. Sorry for the novel, but it has been a long time comiing. CHeers
ZOS, this class really needs a rework. It has gone too far without one and it just feels....discombobulated at best.
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ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭This class has been entirely gutted for PVP. Everything is so expensive, tankiness is gone, damage is gone. You need at least one to function5 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dragonknight is My favorite class to play! and zos made it absolutely garbage to play. Im o tired of these trash " Balance" updates they THINK help when it has constantly butchered not only magicka dragonknight but other classes and giving one class the upper edge instead of bringing true balance to each and every class. I don't know what community zos is listening to because it is NOT the ESO community.1 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭Mag dk is lacking in far too many areas. They aren’t good at anything currently, worst burst heal, crap dots, crap sustain. Idk how they could let a class be this bad.XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wardens have a execute the bear does 100% more damage to targets under 25% health. Not great I agree but they do have one.
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Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since the Flame lash becomes prety much useless anyway, just change it into an execute instead.
"ThEy HaVe An UlTiMaTe aS eXeCuTe"Edited by Zer0_CooL on January 31, 2020 12:29PM2 -
Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree on molten whip and seething fury, that might be the worst design I've ever seen. Spamming dots to get a proc, but ZOS has nerfed initial dot damage so spamming dots is worthless.
And I still run that skill over flame lash since lash proc can be dodged and off balance is out the window.
I don't think mDK is completely worthless though, but I agree on most of your points. Class needs some love.EU PC3 -
pokrakus✭✭The real problem for me playing mdk are Templars able to remove all my costly dots by one click. Mdk has no chance against equal skill Templar. I can pass Warden 1 dot removal every 5 sec but Templar makes 5 skills on my bar useless. Of course everyone can wear Curse eater for similar effect but you need to wear 5 pieces set to remove 3 negative effects not 5 by one cheap click. It's just crazy how it makes every dot build stupid. Especially when DK is all about dots in general. Some of those dots shouldn't be removable.2
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nublife01✭✭✭✭you literally have the two most broken cc mechanics in the entire game. fossilize and leap are absolutely busted. the only way magdk needs to be buffed on the pts is to rid the pts of the changes to off balance. those changes are going to wreck magdk and stamblade. maybe a slight buff in damage but like as i said the best cc mechanics in the game. this is a l2p issue.1
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nublife01✭✭✭✭The real problem for me playing mdk are Templars able to remove all my costly dots by one click. Mdk has no chance against equal skill Templar. I can pass Warden 1 dot removal every 5 sec but Templar makes 5 skills on my bar useless. Of course everyone can wear Curse eater for similar effect but you need to wear 5 pieces set to remove 3 negative effects not 5 by one cheap click. It's just crazy how it makes every dot build stupid. Especially when DK is all about dots in general. Some of those dots shouldn't be removable.
this is true. they should make magdk dots do damage when purged. stamdk shouldnt be touched it is very strong if not overpowered as it is.1 -
Nirntrotter✭✭✭✭✭MagDK is far from being useless, wth? Or have I just yet to ascend the ranks far enough to deal with players that aren't bots? Use empowered chains, know when to engage and disengage. Resto is your friend. Sure, we don't have it as easy as other classes, but I still think MagDK is massively satisfying to play.1 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭MagDK is far from being useless, wth? Or have I just yet to ascend the ranks far enough to deal with players that aren't bots? Use empowered chains, know when to engage and disengage. Resto is your friend. Sure, we don't have it as easy as other classes, but I still think MagDK is massively satisfying to play.
I think the problem is that a lot of us remember when magdk had several good and viable builds, not just the destro with fozilize and after next patch it will be even worse, forcing everyone to play around molten whip, making it even worse. I will retire my dk next patch and make him a tank for PvE because for me there is only one viable build that is boring.4 -
irstarkey57✭✭✭✭you literally have the two most broken cc mechanics in the entire game. fossilize and leap are absolutely busted. the only way magdk needs to be buffed on the pts is to rid the pts of the changes to off balance. those changes are going to wreck magdk and stamblade. maybe a slight buff in damage but like as i said the best cc mechanics in the game. this is a l2p issue.
A great CC. Sure. A strong ult, yes. Those two don’t carry ***. Other classes have strong EVERYTHING.4 -
Nirntrotter✭✭✭✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »I think the problem is that a lot of us remember when magdk had several good and viable builds, not just the destro with fozilize and after next patch it will be even worse, forcing everyone to play around molten whip, making it even worse. I will retire my dk next patch and make him a tank for PvE because for me there is only one viable build that is boring.
Fair enough, that much is most definitely true. Personally I try to focus on the present simply because I had a hard time learning ESO combat and I'm glad I can make ANYTHING work.
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StShoot✭✭✭✭i proc the molten via foo does it feel good ? nooooo way, does it work as well as crystal frag or spectreal bow ? heeeeell no (even tho its melee). but it could always be worth, like procing the effect on every third whip (timing you burst ? nahh xD)
Op you think that, the major berserk set is the only problem that the mag dk will face ? since the mag dk is a attrition class with no execute or real burst, it is the only class against you can use titanborn streangth. imagen foss,+dots+burst combo(whatever you call molten+ leap) brings your enemy down to lets say 30/40 percent he breaks free and gains 440 weapon dmg/5k penetration/ and major berserk, than he starts jabbing, have fun. when you do that against other classes you take the risk to be executed or take a propper burst combo
Obviously this works only in duells but i wanted to mention it because there are still a lots of players who say that the mag dk is realy strong in duelsirstarkey57 wrote: »you literally have the two most broken cc mechanics in the entire game. fossilize and leap are absolutely busted. the only way magdk needs to be buffed on the pts is to rid the pts of the changes to off balance. those changes are going to wreck magdk and stamblade. maybe a slight buff in damage but like as i said the best cc mechanics in the game. this is a l2p issue.
A great CC. Sure. A strong ult, yes. Those two don’t carry ***. Other classes have strong EVERYTHING.
especially when an ult like onslaught exists oh and dont forget the fighterguildrune which is a unblockable aoe stun but hey foss is the strongest cc in the game xDDragonknight is My favorite class to play! and zos made it absolutely garbage to play. Im o tired of these trash " Balance" updates they THINK help when it has constantly butchered not only magicka dragonknight but other classes and giving one class the upper edge instead of bringing true balance to each and every class. I don't know what community zos is listening to because it is NOT the ESO community.
oh i can tell you that they listen to their management and that management wants them to sell necros... so if zos fix on blastbones works you will have fun in the next patch.
If i recall corectly the stamcro has acces to 50% of dmg mitigation, that makes him by far the tankiest class in the game
And if they fix blastbones they have also acces to one of the, if not the strongest burst ability in the game (it has also major defile attached to it, which was removed from nearly every other ability in the game)
Edited by StShoot on February 5, 2020 11:38AM2 -
Nirntrotter✭✭✭✭✭I will say that I wish Seething Fury stacks wouldn't fall off as quickly as they do. They're a pain to maintain in any type of content (and on a class that already needs to be very careful about sustain).0
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