Can DK Inhale Skill Get Some Love

YandereGirlfriend

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Umm. DKs are meta in PVE at the moment, and this skill certainly merits a spot in most trash packs. So saying nobody uses it is simply not true.

On the other hand, this might be the most satisfy skill in the game to cast. Something about it just feels good. I would not be opposed to a small damage buff, but it doesnt need much of one. It's not a reliable heal in PVP, but in PVE, its great for that. If this is on my bars for AOE fights, I typically dont need another self heal or shield.

To me, it's the value-added provided by the morphs that is suspect.

The interrupt function should probably just be added to the base ability instead of taking up an entire morph by itself. Then you could make one morph for stronger damage and then the other as an upgraded sustain morph.

Right now, the 10% cost refund per enemy hit is just so small and so niche as to be basically useless for most players in most situations. Kind of like Sorcerers' Crystal Blast. I'm sure someone out there uses it for... something... but that shouldn't stand in the way of improving the skill and broadening its use cases.

Atherakhia

What skill are you referencing Oreyn?

Yes, MagDKs are currently meta for PvE, but that is almost entirely a result of a bugged and broken perfect Asylum Staff. That staff will be completely useless next patch.

If you're talking about Inhale, no one uses that in their DPS rotation. And I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone bothered to slot it for trash pulls like you imply considering you can double tap Unstable Wall and clear a whole room with that with infinite sustain so long as 2+ mobs are there.

I'm not sure I agree with the above posters that MagDK dots need more damage though. IMO, the larger problem is staying standing long enough for those DOTs to do damage and a lack of overall burst since Whip is almost forced into the heal morph over the other for MagDKs because of a lack of survivability options. At least that has been my experience. I think if they found some way to give MagDK an execute skill either through their own tree or via destruction staff, their offensive power would be more or less fine.

Another thing I'd like to see if for Mag DKs to have some way to heal themselves when their DOTs tick. Inhale putting a debuff on the target that caused you to be healed for a couple hundred every time you deal damage over time with a max proc of one every .5 seconds for example.

datgladiatah

Inhale definitely doesn't provide anything another skill doesn't do better. There are interrupts on crushing shock that don't take a 2+ second delay to get. The magicka recovery is an absolute joke for the cost of the ability and it's not rewarding. The heal isn't anywhere near as useful as Sap Essence (sorry I'm comparing it but Sap Essence provides more passively and actively, + does more damage per cast than Inhale does). I think the burst damage is about the only useful thing here for finishing off targets but I don't see why couldn't just use whip or leap for that reason. Slotting this ability provides very little benefit and nothing the DK can't access in some other way.

It's thematically cool. I don't really want them to get rid of it, but it does need adjustments. I think having the heal scale off max HP would bring its uses up. It'd be cool if one of the morphs possibly gave a shield or snared on the final hit. Maybe it could do more damage to low HP targets so it works more similarly to whirling blades. And these are just the top of my head.

I think the interrupt is good what it's niche, and not worth a skillpoint to morph and doesn't make the ability useful is most situations. Inhale shouldn't be a niche ability, it should be a staple for 1vX survivability and it should be more rewarding. It isn't worth completely reworking, but the risk for reward mechanic of a delayed ability that you can interrupt through multiple casts needs to be better measured with abilities similar to it that reward constant use (like sap essence) or measured around rewarding working with the delay with massive damage and good utility (like scorch)

John_Falstaff

Inhale is an utility skill. My biggest gripe with Inhale is that it doesn't interrupt all casting enemies; those that are immune to chain pull seem to be also immune to Inhale (although Crushing Shock works on them), like some mobs in Blackrose. Now that, I do find a very irritating inconsistency about the skill, and I wonder if it's on ZOS' radar. Aside from that, it's a good utility skill, no need to try and shoehorn it into PvP.

YandereGirlfriend

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Inhale is an utility skill. My biggest gripe with Inhale is that it doesn't interrupt all casting enemies; those that are immune to chain pull seem to be also immune to Inhale (although Crushing Shock works on them), like some mobs in Blackrose. Now that, I do find a very irritating inconsistency about the skill, and I wonder if it's on ZOS' radar. Aside from that, it's a good utility skill, no need to try and shoehorn it into PvP.

You've described the utility (and inconsistency) of only the interrupt morph though. The Magicka return morph is completely lackluster and has no real application in either PvE or PvP, which, to me at least, makes it a prime candidate for a re-work.

datgladiatah

A utility skill that 1. provides poor healing outside of 6+ enemies 2. adds delayed damage that isn't even half as strong as other AOE's of its kind and 3. has some of the worst morph choices in the game that add either no utility or adds poor utility done better by other skills... is a bad utility skill. I think it would be very easy to adjust any aspect of this ability

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Atherakhia wrote: »

What skill are you referencing Oreyn?



Yes, MagDKs are currently meta for PvE, but that is almost entirely a result of a bugged and broken perfect Asylum Staff. That staff will be completely useless next patch.

If you're talking about Inhale, no one uses that in their DPS rotation. And I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone bothered to slot it for trash pulls like you imply considering you can double tap Unstable Wall and clear a whole room with that with infinite sustain so long as 2+ mobs are there.

I'm not sure I agree with the above posters that MagDK dots need more damage though. IMO, the larger problem is staying standing long enough for those DOTs to do damage and a lack of overall burst since Whip is almost forced into the heal morph over the other for MagDKs because of a lack of survivability options. At least that has been my experience. I think if they found some way to give MagDK an execute skill either through their own tree or via destruction staff, their offensive power would be more or less fine.

Another thing I'd like to see if for Mag DKs to have some way to heal themselves when their DOTs tick. Inhale putting a debuff on the target that caused you to be healed for a couple hundred every time you deal damage over time with a max proc of one every .5 seconds for example.

@Atherakhia

Talking about deep breath.

Actually, its not the staff that's broken, but there are some questionable interactions with DK passives. Yes it is being nerfed to uselessness, but that's a different conversation (completely pointless nerf that does nothing but upset people that spent time trying to get it).

DKs wont be meta next patch (you will likely see one DK DPS in a meta group, for engulfing flames) . Mageblades will be Meta from a damage perspective if things go live as they are. Also, a different conversation, but a magebalde DPS meta is not good for a lot of prog groups. It's arguably the hardest PVE DPS rotation there is. Last time we had a mageblade meta, there was a fair amount of salt in the air.

No, it (Deep Breath) does not get used in a single target DPS rotation, but if you are someone that actually completely changes your gear and skill loadout for trash pulls, it should make your bars on a DK. You dont even run a VAS staff in trash, or at least, you shouldnt for most pulls. You run a lighting staff and stack your front bar with AOE skills (like deep breath).

John_Falstaff

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Inhale is an utility skill. My biggest gripe with Inhale is that it doesn't interrupt all casting enemies; those that are immune to chain pull seem to be also immune to Inhale (although Crushing Shock works on them), like some mobs in Blackrose. Now that, I do find a very irritating inconsistency about the skill, and I wonder if it's on ZOS' radar. Aside from that, it's a good utility skill, no need to try and shoehorn it into PvP.

You've described the utility (and inconsistency) of only the interrupt morph though. The Magicka return morph is completely lackluster and has no real application in either PvE or PvP, which, to me at least, makes it a prime candidate for a re-work.

Agreed, I'm only looking at the interrupt morph; I'm not even sure if anyone takes the other one for anything, and I'll agree it'd be a good idea to rework it into something more creative and useful. Provided it's not Stone Fist kind of creative.

MashmalloMan

ZOS_FelipeF wrote: »

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to its correct subcategory.

Every single damn time I see the [Z] I get excited. I don't know why I bother.. You guys speak to us once every 3 months with 1 upcomming sneak preview of the next dlc with no comments on the current issues. That vampire stream made things very clear.