Unpopular Opinion on Weapon/Spell damage

Rampeal

Just going to say it.
Weapon/Spell Damage should not affect healing. Healing should be based purely on how much stamina, Magicka and Health you have. Also Stamina, Magicka, and Health should not effect Damage

Before you call for my head on a silver plater hear me out. This would curve the problem plaguing this game from the start.
If you want crazy damage that is fine, but your self heal is extremely weak. If you want to be a massive tank or healer fine, but your damage will be lacking.

Just think this would help the game alot. Plus it is called weapon/spell DAMAGE. How this correlates to healing is beyond me.

Aznarb

No

Few month before I would have agree.
But atm, outside of trial, when you're good you don't really need a healer who only heal.
It's just a total waste and they will replace you with a 3th DDs instead.

In 4man I use Olo+Mother Sorrow+Zaa and can dish between 20 and 30k DPS to helps the team.

If you wanna change that, I'm all for it, but change how the PvE in this game work 1st.

Tommy_The_Gun

Other

Looking at set bonuses, I can say this:

Weapon & spell dmg and maximum offensive stats (stamina, magicka) boost your skills strength - which affects both dmg & healing.

Meanwhile stats like healing done & healing taken only affects your healing and even though it only boost one aspect (healing, without any dmg modifier buff) - it is less effective and inferior.

129 Weapon / Spell Damage - it provides way better healing than 4% Healing Taken
1096 Maximum Stamina / Maximum Magicka - it also provides way better healing than 4% Healing Taken

Since healing taken / done only focuses on ONE thing and boosts only ONE thing - it should be superior at doing so, but it is not.... that is your problem right there.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Not a fan of this idea for pvp, groups with healers would have a crazy advantage over healerless groups and there’s already too many people choosing to play healbot at the moment.

Rampeal

Yes

Aznarb wrote: »

Few month before I would have agree.
But atm, outside of trial, when you're good you don't really need a healer who only heal.
It's just a total waste and they will replace you with a 3th DDs instead.

In 4man I use Olo+Mother Sorrow+Zaa and can dish between 20 and 30k DPS to helps the team.

If you wanna change that, I'm all for it, but change how the PvE in this game work 1st.

That is exactly my point. This game was meant to be run with the whole tank, healer, dps trinity. A DPS player pulling 30k+ should not be able to self heal for so much that a dedicated healer is not required.

This is the core problem with the PvP and PvE in this game that everyone stacks Weapon/Spell Damage and recovery so much that it eliminates the point of other roles. I know groups that run one tank(use this term loosely, more of a sword and board dps) and the rest dps and blow through Trials.

I mean if that is the way Zos wants this game to be so be it, but it let's down the people who want to play roles of the actual Tanks and healers.

This game used to be play as you want, but now it is Play Dps (Preferably Stamina). At least that is the message that Zos and the community seems to be sending.

MartiniDaniels

Yes

Idea is good, but it'll require total rework and rebalance of everything. Without total rebalance it will be a mess..

Faulgor

Yes

This has been a point of discussion since release. It's the unfortunate consequence when you eliminate attributes and the skill system from previous TES games. One or two stats have to do everything.

Defensive and offensive abilities should never be derived from the same stat, you should have to chose.
People get this in other areas when they complain all the time that heavy armor is too good offensively in PvP.
It's just commong RPG sense.

How to solve this is up for debate, but as there's no indication that ZOS is interested in tackling this, not even a hint of revamping the CP system, this discussion is kind of moot. The ship has sailed.

Edit: One simple option would be to nerf all healing abilities, and finally boost the pathetic +healing done bonus provided by a lot of sets. Currently, the equivalent +spell power bonus is just miles better, which is also one of the reasons Argonians remain such a poor race.

AcadianPaladin

No

Result of this proposal would be less healers. I know mine would certainly abandon the profession. And I would reexamine whether I even want to remain in ESO. Unlike a tank, a healer can comfortably clear overland content and heal others - that is why I play them - and not tanks.

I play PvE. If you are talking PvP, I could care less what tweaks are made to battle spirit or whatever as long as it does not effect PvE.

bmnoble

Other

Rampeal wrote: »

Just going to say it.
Weapon/Spell Damage should not affect healing. Healing should be based purely on how much stamina, Magicka and Health you have. Also Stamina, Magicka, and Health should not effect Damage

Before you call for my head on a silver plater hear me out. This would curve the problem plaguing this game from the start.
If you want crazy damage that is fine, but your self heal is extremely weak. If you want to be a massive tank or healer fine, but your damage will be lacking.

Just think this would help the game alot. Plus it is called weapon/spell DAMAGE. How this correlates to healing is beyond me.

Leave healing alone.


Would not mind a change so that Stamina, Magicka and Health no longer play as big a role in how much damage skills do or some form of rework.

Would rather see more hybrid builds be viable than just, stacking as much Stamina or Magicka as possible, with just enough health to be able to survive that we currently seem to have with most builds.

Even if the change was as basic as all skills damage is based on the highest resource so that stamina/magicka morphs of skills can be used based on personal preference rather than having to choose the higher damage option.

barney2525

I'm missing something

" Weapon/Spell Damage should not affect healing. Healing should be based purely on how much stamina, Magicka and Health you have. Also Stamina, Magicka, and Health should not effect Damage "

First - weapon/spell DAMAGE has nothing to do with healing already. I get hit, it doesn't affect the amount I can heal. I use my weapon/spell for damage, it does not affect the amount I can heal.

Second - Stamina, magicka and health should not (a)ffect damage ? So, you are telling me that a person of 5 ' 6 and 140 lbs will strike a target with exactly the same amount of force as a person of 6' 8 and 290 lbs. Adding stamina to a character is the equivalent of adding Strength to a stam based character. Adding Magicka to the pool is the equivalent of adding magical power to the character. If magicka and stamina do nothing - you just removed them from the game.

I don't get what your point is. You want to assign weapons a value and that is the only damage that is allowed to be done? No buffs, No enhancements, just the weapon itself and every person is equally as strong as the next person.

I don't understand the goal of any of this - unless you are looking for endless fights in PvP.

IMHO

Rampeal

Yes

barney2525 wrote: »

I'm missing something

" Weapon/Spell Damage should not affect healing. Healing should be based purely on how much stamina, Magicka and Health you have. Also Stamina, Magicka, and Health should not effect Damage "

First - weapon/spell DAMAGE has nothing to do with healing already. I get hit, it doesn't affect the amount I can heal. I use my weapon/spell for damage, it does not affect the amount I can heal.

Second - Stamina, magicka and health should not (a)ffect damage ? So, you are telling me that a person of 5 ' 6 and 140 lbs will strike a target with exactly the same amount of force as a person of 6' 8 and 290 lbs. Adding stamina to a character is the equivalent of adding Strength to a stam based character. Adding Magicka to the pool is the equivalent of adding magical power to the character. If magicka and stamina do nothing - you just removed them from the game.

I don't get what your point is. You want to assign weapons a value and that is the only damage that is allowed to be done? No buffs, No enhancements, just the weapon itself and every person is equally as strong as the next person.

I don't understand the goal of any of this - unless you are looking for endless fights in PvP.

IMHO

First - Weapon and spell damage DOES increase the amount you can heal in the game. It always has and so far always will.

Second - Stamina, Magicka, and Health do serve a purpose. The ability to cast a spell and swing a weapon. Stamina has no correlation in real life on ones ability to apply raw force to a object, that is muscle mass in eso terms weapon damage. What it does is limit on how long you can apply that force before you tire out.

What my OPINION is that Weapon/Spell damage should be separate from healing. Healing should be based off stats.

As of right now the same person that can deal 30-40k damage can also sustain their health to the point that the healer role has become all but extinct in pve and allows for zerg resistant builds in pvp.

That's what my point and opinion is.

Kelces

Yes

Rampeal wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

I'm missing something

" Weapon/Spell Damage should not affect healing. Healing should be based purely on how much stamina, Magicka and Health you have. Also Stamina, Magicka, and Health should not effect Damage "

First - weapon/spell DAMAGE has nothing to do with healing already. I get hit, it doesn't affect the amount I can heal. I use my weapon/spell for damage, it does not affect the amount I can heal.

Second - Stamina, magicka and health should not (a)ffect damage ? So, you are telling me that a person of 5 ' 6 and 140 lbs will strike a target with exactly the same amount of force as a person of 6' 8 and 290 lbs. Adding stamina to a character is the equivalent of adding Strength to a stam based character. Adding Magicka to the pool is the equivalent of adding magical power to the character. If magicka and stamina do nothing - you just removed them from the game.

I don't get what your point is. You want to assign weapons a value and that is the only damage that is allowed to be done? No buffs, No enhancements, just the weapon itself and every person is equally as strong as the next person.

I don't understand the goal of any of this - unless you are looking for endless fights in PvP.

IMHO

First - Weapon and spell damage DOES increase the amount you can heal in the game. It always has and so far always will.

Second - Stamina, Magicka, and Health do serve a purpose. The ability to cast a spell and swing a weapon. Stamina has no correlation in real life on ones ability to apply raw force to a object, that is muscle mass in eso terms weapon damage. What it does is limit on how long you can apply that force before you tire out.

What my OPINION is that Weapon/Spell damage should be separate from healing. Healing should be based off stats.

As of right now the same person that can deal 30-40k damage can also sustain their health to the point that the healer role has become all but extinct in pve and allows for zerg resistant builds in pvp.

That's what my point and opinion is.

Exactly the reason, why people get bored in PvE and say you don't need healers etc. And @AcadianPaladin, this is what should actually concern you about the healing role.

DTStormfox

Other

I will always vote for 1) better balance and 2) more authenticity for the roles, races and classes.

I completely agree that DD's should not have an advantage in healing power over healers.
It seems like at the moment this is the case. I am unsure if this is the best solution, but at least it is a solution.

Starlock

Other

Then rename to “weapon power” and “spell power.” Problem solved.

Joy_Division

No

Misdiagnosis.

Healbots already have low spell/weapon damage. This wouldnt end the tank meta.

It would just make things worse because the healbot build, which is bad and gets carried by defensive sets/mechanics, becomes relatively stronger since your change would punish people who actually do try and kill other players via damage.

Tyrobag

No

This is the exact opposite of the problem. Nothing should scaled on max mag/stam.

xXMeowMeowXx

No

Nopes. Too much needs fixing just with the performance side of things.

This would not fix anything but cause more problems. Just seeing how the game had changed over the years is enough of a lesson that small steps are better.

Galwylin

Other

I think the entire power setup needs to be reworked but that solution would mean everything else needs to be reworked while you make a small (outside looking in) change. The entire game works as if spell/weapon damage does feed into healing so changing it could very well make it unplayable as it currently is. I've always been confused why the amount of your resource powers abilities. As if gaining 300 pounds would make me the strongest man in the world.

Iskiab

No

I think it’s a bad idea.

PvP healers usually stack sustain and healing done % modifers because most of the best heals are expensive or health based.

Dps stack spell/weapon damage or max mag for damage and are unable to use the best healing abilities.

It works out, damage dealers can generally use healing abilities to keep themselves alive in pvp or do a bit of off healing but that’s it. The system is working out well as is. The only reason why pve players can go without a healer is because not a lot of healing is required at max CPs. Try it at CP160 and you won’t get far.

Shantu

Other

Personally, I don't care how complex or convoluted their combat/healing system is. If the sum total of the experience isn't fun, it's not worth doing.

umagon

I think there should be a separation of the gain and frequency attributes that contribute to the final output values. Where spell power controls the gain for magicka based skills/weapons, weapon power controls the gain for stamina based skills/weapons, and restoration power is introduced to control the gain of healing components of skills/weapons. And the gain factors removed from the magicka/stamina resource pools so that the two along with magicka and stamina regeneration only control the frequency.

This would require more of an investment to heal effectively which would eliminate situations where players have high amounts of damage output and healing output at the same time as one would have to be sacrificed to increase the other. And it would eliminate builds that utilize high amounts of damage mitigation and large resource pool values to increase healing output values to the point where they can completely nullify incoming damage. Which is part of the reason why defile and/or short frequency high damage builds are required in pvp environments. And damage over time builds are mostly ineffective.

x48rph

No

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Idea is good, but it'll require total rework and rebalance of everything. Without total rebalance it will be a mess..

No, because of this right here. We don't need yet another round of rebalancing everything. Already had enough of that. It's driven so many people I know away from this game I've lost count.

idk

No

First off OP has biased the poll by trying to sway and taint peoples opinions in the OP itself. Not that it matters as only 20% of the respondents so far agree with them.

OP provides no basis or reasoning for they think this is the best course of action. Zos is fully capable of adjusting formulas without such drastic measures. What is funny is if Zos did remove WD/SD from the formulas for heals Zos would have to replace the SD/WD on healing sets with max magicka basically negating the change to begin with. What logic OP seems to be presenting falls flat.

Nerouyn

No

No.

Abilities scaling to max resource is crazy.

That needs to go.

Re healing I've suggested many times that the game needs a separate magic damage and magic healing stats , to prevent any individual player from simultaneously being an uber DPSer and uber healer.

The game already and uses a flat + % bonus healing with a mundus stone, racial passive and set bonuses.

One of the few things about antiquities is that players will only be able to equip one at time. Possibly some of them will boost damage and others healing, thereby fixing this problem.

mague

No

No

I played dedicated healer for years. A lot of time as (vanilla) Warden in EQ2. Vanilla wasnt able to kill a rat. BUT !!! All of the game was group content. All of it and every group needed a healer. Later on this all got destoyed and that was the point where Fotm was born.

I modern games i would remove grouping, encourage everyone to be self sufficient as Tank-heal, DPS-heal or even Heal-dps. Just four people without group bars in a dungeon. Because almost all other content is solo content.

And this would take away the possibility to solo farm keys in Grotto or Banished etc.

I will play healer IF only group content exists and i dont have to fight the Fotm syndrome.

Edit: Grouping in EQ2 was balanced, because the mobs have been grouped too. Skills have been single, group or AOE. The WoW'ified that later but until then it was the best grouping game on the market.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO

It is more of "spell/weapon potency" than "damage".

Nurable

Your post would make more sense if resource pools had no effect on damage or heals. Splitting healing and damage into max resource and spell/weapon damage is a terrible idea.