More Content in a Season

Iccotak

Daedric War: GREAT story that took too long to release and was dragged through two years with unrelated DLC in-between. Also required 2 paid expansions in order to play the whole story.
(This story was hinted back in Orsinium from 2015 - it took 3 years to implement the Daedric War storyline and it was not done efficiently)

Season of the Dragon: GREAT start with focused storytelling and concentrated theme into a year. 1 paid expansion. BUT Overall poor pacing and rushed ending.
(They efficiently cut the story off too soon - it needed more)

I did not mind that I had to play both Elsweyr & Dragonhold to finish the Season storyline. It was a sensible solution at the time to prevent confusion among New Players (which was a problem in the previous content) it allowed the writers to tell a more connected story as well as take risks with the ending.

The problem is that the story was not given more time to develop like the Daedric War had with three major story installments. Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset.
So when we got to the Final Boss it felt very rushed.

While I think there is way to get around this in the future, it will require ZOS to increase output on the amount of content released within a year.
Not only to do their stories justice but also to compete with other MMOs

NOTES:
Dungeons

Spoiler

- The Q1 Dungeons do lead up to the Q2 Chapter but they are not needed to understand the Q2 Prologue.
- The Q3 & Q4 Dungeons are stories happening at the same time as the events of the Q3 & Q4 Zones but are not directly related to the Main Story.

Quests that connect Season Narrative

Spoiler

Season Story quests are quests that tie directly in the Season story arc and the Season Epilogue. They unlock as players continue the Season story. This prevents some confusion as consequence from playing the DLC in any order.
Example:
- Q2 Season Quest is unlocked if players completed the Q2 Main quest.
- Q3 Season Quest is unlocked if players completed Q2 Main quest & Season Quest as well as the Q3 Main Story.

Why this system?
The hope of - "Season Story Quests" - is that Season Narrative focused Quests intermingled with the DLC throughout the Year would allow the Overall Season to tell a more focused, cohesive, and connected story while still allowing players to play the Season Chapter & DLC in any order.

Completing the Season

Spoiler

- Players have to complete the main story of Quarters 2, 3, and 4 in order to do the Season Final Boss Epilogue story and complete the Season.
- Prologue quests are unlocked by completing the Main Quest of a specific zone - they tease the story of the next zone.

Quest Counter
Quarter #1: Season Prologue
- Dungeon = 2
- Q2 Prologue = 2

Quarter #2: Season Act 1
- Chapter = 8 - 9
- Q3 prologue = 2
- Season Story quest = 1 - 2

Quarter #3: Season Act 2
- Zone = 6 - 7
- Dungeon = 1
- Q4 prologue = 2
- Season story quest = 1 - 2

Quarter #4: Season Act 3 - Final
- Zone = 6 - 7
- Dungeon = 1
- Epilogue = 3

Total quests for the Year
Everything = 35 - 41
minus dungeons or prologues = 31 - 37
minus dungeons and prologues = 22 - 29

Give or take on the final numbers.
The point being that the Daedric War had great story pacing but I don't think two paid Chapters is necessary to tell one story arc nor is that enticing to players.
So perhaps we could have a compromise between the Daedric War & Season of the Dragon content formula release plan?

Aptonoth

I was kind o hoping for a more epic storyline too. I think the best happy medium would be two separate years of content but keep one large threat between the two. So for example if Peryite is the next big bad for Blackmarsh ear then also keep him as the big bad for year 2 as well but l the stakes by intoducing a new threat with them. Then as usual each chapter can have its own individual secondary threats or whatever else as usual.

Kind of weird dragons are over already lol.

ProfessorKittyhawk

I think they need to stop doing 2 dungeon dlcs a year and maybe do another zone or do a trial dlc because we need more trials in the game. Maybe have a new dungeon with the chapter and dlc zones if they still wanna add dungeons, help bolster the content we get and add some value to the chapter/dlc.

essi2

The pace they are keeping is already perhaps more than they can sustain. Adding more content in the same year will only make the quality poorer unless they find some magic money tree.

Darkstorne

essi2 wrote: »

The pace they are keeping is already perhaps more than they can sustain. Adding more content in the same year will only make the quality poorer unless they find some magic money tree.

Yep, their content quantity already surpasses other MMOs. But the quality seems to suffer as a result, with a lack of environment and architecture variety within new provinces. Summerset and Elsweyr both suffer from "here is the one building style every city in the entire province uses" syndrome.

My dream announcement for any changes to output would be that the rate of release stays the same, but they have invested in a second content team. Each team leapfrogs the other, so they get two years to produce their year of content. For example, Team A is about to release the Skyrim saga of 2020, while team B is currently working on Cyrodiil for 2021. Once Skyrim's Q4 is released, team A begins work on their 2022 Chapter and corresponding DLC set in Morrowind's Telvanni Isles.

FierceSam

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I think they need to stop doing 2 dungeon dlcs a year and maybe do another zone or do a trial dlc because we need more trials in the game. Maybe have a new dungeon with the chapter and dlc zones if they still wanna add dungeons, help bolster the content we get and add some value to the chapter/dlc.

While I agree that the ‘2 dungeon, chapter, 2 dungeon, finale’ schmaltz has become a bit tired, I’m not entirely sure that what is really needed is more trials.

From what I see, many guilds find it hard to get regular groups of 12 together to do them.

The two things I’d really like to see is some kind of modular arena that could cater for solo and group play, and some kind of actually working BGs.

Nemesis7884

its probably difficult to keep the pacing up while at the same time trying to fix the game...im fine if they can fix the performance and combat system and keep the new story pace and once this is done in 21 adding again more classes, skill lines and the such... and player numbers seem to be growing so i guess the financial backing is there...

Iccotak

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

its probably difficult to keep the pacing up while at the same time trying to fix the game...im fine if they can fix the performance and combat system and keep the new story pace and once this is done in 21 adding again more classes, skill lines and the such... and player numbers seem to be growing so i guess the financial backing is there...

Yes 2020 is the year of performance updates

Iccotak

@Darkstorne

Yes in order for this plan to work it would require a larger team
So it would be better for Seasons down the line than right now as they are focusing on performance and quality of life updates.

zaria

essi2 wrote: »

The pace they are keeping is already perhaps more than they can sustain. Adding more content in the same year will only make the quality poorer unless they find some magic money tree.

As they has maintained it for 3 years now its no question if they can sustain it.

Making more would cost more and its a bit unsure how much more content will bring in.
Perhaps get part time players to play more or others to take shorter breaks in addition to more dlc sales but far from sure it would add up.

Iccotak

added Prologue & Season quests

Prologue Quests
Prologue quests are unlocked by completing the Main Quest of a specific zone - they tease the story of the next zone

Season Quests
Season Story quests are quests that tie directly in the Season story arc and the Season Epilogue. They unlock as players continue the Season story. This prevents some confusion as consequence from playing the DLC in any order.
Example:
Q2 Season Quest is unlocked if players completed the Q2 Main quest.
But Q3 Season Quest is unlocked if players completed Q2 Main quest & Season Quest.

They are the glue that connects the Quarters more together and makes sure that the story has a more consistent experience. This way allies & the main villain players meet in Q2 & Q3 do not entirely drop off the face of Nirn and when they show up for the final confrontation it doesn't feel like it came out of left field

Starlock

There are things I think felt rushed in the Year of the Dragon story arc, but the ending wasn't it.

What felt rushed was the main narrative of the chapter. They attempted to tell several different stories in a single narrative arc when each of those stories really needed its own breathing room to be told well. In general, the chapter main stories have this problem but with Elsweyr it felt particularly noticeable. While it's impressive that they somehow tied together dragons + Euraxia + necromancers + Cadwell, it was really too much to throw into one narrative of that length. I'm all for narrative complexity - love it, really - but it needs room to breathe. Compared to that mess, the pacing of the ending was fine.

But perhaps I'm being fussy, because I'm playing Murkmire now which is easily some of the best writing and narrative pacing in the game. It's part of why I'm so sad they are doing this "tie everything in with a theme" gig now, because it means we will never see another piece of content like Murkmire.

nafensoriel

Iccotak wrote: »

/snips

Technically out of all current MMOs ESO has more content per year already.

I don't exactly disagree but it should be pointed out that compared to the competition ESO is a content drop machine atm.

ProfessorKittyhawk

FierceSam wrote: »

show previous quotes

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I think they need to stop doing 2 dungeon dlcs a year and maybe do another zone or do a trial dlc because we need more trials in the game. Maybe have a new dungeon with the chapter and dlc zones if they still wanna add dungeons, help bolster the content we get and add some value to the chapter/dlc.

While I agree that the ‘2 dungeon, chapter, 2 dungeon, finale’ schmaltz has become a bit tired, I’m not entirely sure that what is really needed is more trials.

From what I see, many guilds find it hard to get regular groups of 12 together to do them.

The two things I’d really like to see is some kind of modular arena that could cater for solo and group play, and some kind of actually working BGs.

I feel like trials are a pain to do because after a time or two of doing them most people aren't interested in doing them. I love trials and after rotating through the ones we have, I start getting a bit bored. Dungeons are great and all but, it'd be mice to get some more trial content to mix things up.

And most noticeably, the problem I have with a lot of the trials of late is how short they are. Starting with Clockwork City we started getting these short mini trials. Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest were mini trials. Sunspire isnt treated as one but to me, and some friends and other guildies, it might as well be. The main thing separating Sunspire from being a mini trial are the trash mobs between bosses. But where most of the trials have 5 or so bosses, Sunspire has 3. Remove the trash mobs between them and its basically Asylum or Cloudrest without the ability to fight all the bosses at once.

I miss trials the size, length, and difficulty of Maw of Lorkhaj and Halls of Fabrication. Trials that are challenging enough on normal to be fun and keep people interested and coming back, and giving those who are big into trial endgame content a reason to master the content.

If they were to put the effort into making new trials they do into making new dungeon content with mechanics and what not, the trial scene would likely grow. Would love to see some ideas and mechanics they've introduced in the newer dungeons to be implemented with trials to make them more dynamic and force more group cooperation and cohesion.

Iccotak

@Starlock yes I think the pacing was poor because they were trying to cram too much into two parts I think with a third zone as well as the "Season Story Quests" it would have been better paced.

Iccotak

Updated OP to more clearly explain aspects of the idea

NOTES:
Dungeons

- The Q1 Dungeons do lead up to the Q2 Chapter but they are not needed to understand the Q2 Prologue.
- The Q3 & Q4 Dungeons are stories happening at the same time as the events of the Q3 & Q4 Zones but are not directly related to the Main Story.

Quests that connect Season Narrative

Season Story quests are quests that tie directly in the Season story arc and the Season Epilogue. They unlock as players continue the Season story. This prevents some confusion as consequence from playing the DLC in any order.
Example:
- Q2 Season Quest is unlocked if players completed the Q2 Main quest.
- Q3 Season Quest is unlocked if players completed Q2 Main quest & Season Quest.

Why this system?
The hope of - "Season Story Quests" - is that Season Narrative focused Quests intermingled with the DLC throughout the Year would allow the Overall Season to tell a more focused, cohesive, and connected story while still allowing players to play the Season Chapter & DLC in any order.

Completing the Season

- Players have to complete the main story of Quarters 2, 3, and 4 in order to do the Season Final Boss Epilogue story and complete the Season.
- Prologue quests are unlocked by completing the Main Quest of a specific zone - they tease the story of the next zone.

asuitandtyb14_ESO

I don't think ESO has a higher volume or a higher quality of expansions than other MMO's.

I can't speak for FF14, but I do play WoW and GW2 as well.

WoW is on a two year expansion cycle, rather than ESO's one, but they certainly put out more zones, dungeons, raids, and systems in a cumulative two year cycle of ESO.

For GW2, they put out a new zone and story every three months. That is 4 new zones and stories a year, which is still more than ESO. They also put out new horizontal progression systems as well.

ESO puts out an average amount, at best, of DLC. They just sell it spaced out in several "shiny wrapped boxes" a year. They could certainly put out one more zone a year, if we ever hope to see a completed Tamriel; and maybe hide less cities behind public dungeons.