The StamTank Meta

Solaire

How do you view the current Meta?

Do you like it? if so, Why?

Do you hate it? if so, Why?

BaiterOfZergs

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Solaire

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

BaiterOfZergs

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

Yeah , years of pvp and play both magic & stam. Magic builds still have more healing and utility at their disposal.

It’s not stam builds running around keeping themselves, zergs and ball groups alive. Some can dish out good off heals but again not at the same level as a mag build. Plus , the good defense and utility sets are only magic based.

It would be a different argument if you said stam was better at building tanky jack of all trade builds for small scale scenarios. But even that’s debatable these days since a lot of magic weaknesses have been covered by new additions to the game since launch. Only thing magic is typically missing is a large stam pool even though it’s people running around with 18-20k stam.

L_Nici

It doesn't matter if Magicka or Stamina, use S and B and you are untouchable these days.
The worst are the Templars in my opinion, because they can hold block, while spamming Heals and Purge and if they want they jab you to death with no weapon or Magic damage even needed, you can't escape anyway.

Solaire

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

Yeah , years of pvp and play both magic & stam. Magic builds still have more healing and utility at their disposal.

It’s not stam builds running around keeping themselves, zergs and ball groups alive. Some can dish out good off heals but again not at the same level as a mag build. Plus , the good defense and utility sets are only magic based.

It would be a different argument if you said stam was better at building tanky jack of all trade builds for small scale scenarios. But even that’s debatable these days since a lot of magic weaknesses have been covered by new additions to the game since launch. Only thing magic is typically missing is a large stam pool even though it’s people running around with 18-20k stam.

Nope, my StamDK can Heal, Tank and do tons of DMG it's a beast in PVP while my Mag builds stand no chance, so i just stick to my Stamina builds, Mags are super squishy they die before i even finish my rotation, you may be doing something wrong with your build cause they stand no chance against Stamina build.

yeyesil

The problem is with stamina classes that have better item sets than magicka classes. You can have high weapon damage,penetration, mitigation and sustain at the same time while magicka ones cant. Stamina classes can have high damage and sustain in heavy armor but magicka classes will suck with sustain and damage with heavy. In light you need to use a defensive set to become tanky and it reduces your damage. Magicka classes cant invest damage sustain and tankyness at the same time. For example in my stam dk i have 6k+ wep damage, nearly 15k penetration, nearly 35k resist and major protection with just BRP dw. I use 2 damage sets in heavy armor and one of them is NMA and sustain is still ok. If i use 2 damage sets in heavy armor with a magicka class i can never sustain well with it. Still with 2 damage sets in heavy armor wont do enough damage because you need the penetration in light armor. Stamina classes should be nerfed with either sustain or tankyness. They can start with major protection like BRP dw. Magicka classes are really more difficult to sustain enough than stamina classes.

Akinos

yeyesil wrote: »

The problem is with stamina classes that have better item sets than magicka classes. You can have high weapon damage,penetration, mitigation and sustain at the same time while magicka ones cant. Stamina classes can have high damage and sustain in heavy armor but magicka classes will suck with sustain and damage with heavy. In light you need to use a defensive set to become tanky and it reduces your damage. Magicka classes cant invest damage sustain and tankyness at the same time. For example in my stam dk i have 6k+ wep damage, nearly 15k penetration, nearly 35k resist and major protection with just BRP dw. I use 2 damage sets in heavy armor and one of them is NMA and sustain is still ok. If i use 2 damage sets in heavy armor with a magicka class i can never sustain well with it. Still with 2 damage sets in heavy armor wont do enough damage because you need the penetration in light armor. Stamina classes should be nerfed with either sustain or tankyness. They can start with major protection like BRP dw. Magicka classes are really more difficult to sustain enough than stamina classes.

not to mention almost every stamina toon is a nord now lol. I barely see any other stam races.

L_Nici

Thats not true, I see a wide range of Stamraces. Bosmer is very often used as well, mainly by those who dodgerole a lot thanks to the Penetration passive and Orcs are still the most used Stamsorcs, Nords get most used by DKs.

Akinos

L_Nici wrote: »

Thats not true, I see a wide range of Stamraces. Bosmer is very often used as well, mainly by those who dodgerole a lot thanks to the Penetration passive and Orcs are still the most used Stamsorcs, Nords get most used by DKs.

True, i see alot of wood elves too, but theres not nearly as many wood elves as there are nords, at least on PC NA anyways, the wood elves i do see are usually stamblade gankers or stam sorcs sometimes, but most everybody else is nord.

usmguy1234

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

Yeah , years of pvp and play both magic & stam. Magic builds still have more healing and utility at their disposal.

It’s not stam builds running around keeping themselves, zergs and ball groups alive. Some can dish out good off heals but again not at the same level as a mag build. Plus , the good defense and utility sets are only magic based.

It would be a different argument if you said stam was better at building tanky jack of all trade builds for small scale scenarios. But even that’s debatable these days since a lot of magic weaknesses have been covered by new additions to the game since launch. Only thing magic is typically missing is a large stam pool even though it’s people running around with 18-20k stam.

Nope, my StamDK can Heal, Tank and do tons of DMG it's a beast in PVP while my Mag builds stand no chance, so i just stick to my Stamina builds, Mags are super squishy they die before i even finish my rotation, you may be doing something wrong with your build cause they stand no chance against Stamina build.

Maybe you're playing your magicka builds wrong? If you're trying to 1vx on a magic class, you're going to have a bad time. That's stamina's lane. If you're trying to xv1 or xvx, you'll be fine. That is magicka's lane. If you're still struggling playing to magicka's strength, its time to start looking inward because the issue is you.

Solaire

L_Nici wrote: »

It doesn't matter if Magicka or Stamina, use S and B and you are untouchable these days.
The worst are the Templars in my opinion, because they can hold block, while spamming Heals and Purge and if they want they jab you to death with no weapon or Magic damage even needed, you can't escape anyway.

Actually Templars are very easy to deal with, they all fight the same way, they are very predictable.

Thogard

Stam DPS are tanky due to skillfully anticipating burst combos and blocking accordingly

Mag DPS can be tanky in the same way.

But actual tanks are people who build either heavy armor + a 5pc mitigation set, or who stack HP.

And those real tanks are predominantly magicka, because magicka has better tools for supporting those builds and that playstyle.

Solaire

I

L_Nici wrote: »

Thats not true, I see a wide range of Stamraces. Bosmer is very often used as well, mainly by those who dodgerole a lot thanks to the Penetration passive and Orcs are still the most used Stamsorcs, Nords get most used by DKs.

Bosmer are mainly used by Nightblades, i have a Bosmer StamNB, it's perfect,
almost like it's made for them.

Solaire

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

Yeah , years of pvp and play both magic & stam. Magic builds still have more healing and utility at their disposal.

It’s not stam builds running around keeping themselves, zergs and ball groups alive. Some can dish out good off heals but again not at the same level as a mag build. Plus , the good defense and utility sets are only magic based.

It would be a different argument if you said stam was better at building tanky jack of all trade builds for small scale scenarios. But even that’s debatable these days since a lot of magic weaknesses have been covered by new additions to the game since launch. Only thing magic is typically missing is a large stam pool even though it’s people running around with 18-20k stam.

Nope, my StamDK can Heal, Tank and do tons of DMG it's a beast in PVP while my Mag builds stand no chance, so i just stick to my Stamina builds, Mags are super squishy they die before i even finish my rotation, you may be doing something wrong with your build cause they stand no chance against Stamina build.

Maybe you're playing your magicka builds wrong? If you're trying to 1vx on a magic class, you're going to have a bad time. That's stamina's lane. If you're trying to xv1 or xvx, you'll be fine. That is magicka's lane. If you're still struggling playing to magicka's strength, its time to start looking inward because the issue is you.

This is basically what i'm saying, it is Stamina's lane, Mags are only good for support in groups they are very good at it,
But outside of that they are a walking corpse.

Akinos

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

Yeah , years of pvp and play both magic & stam. Magic builds still have more healing and utility at their disposal.

It’s not stam builds running around keeping themselves, zergs and ball groups alive. Some can dish out good off heals but again not at the same level as a mag build. Plus , the good defense and utility sets are only magic based.

It would be a different argument if you said stam was better at building tanky jack of all trade builds for small scale scenarios. But even that’s debatable these days since a lot of magic weaknesses have been covered by new additions to the game since launch. Only thing magic is typically missing is a large stam pool even though it’s people running around with 18-20k stam.

Nope, my StamDK can Heal, Tank and do tons of DMG it's a beast in PVP while my Mag builds stand no chance, so i just stick to my Stamina builds, Mags are super squishy they die before i even finish my rotation, you may be doing something wrong with your build cause they stand no chance against Stamina build.

Maybe you're playing your magicka builds wrong? If you're trying to 1vx on a magic class, you're going to have a bad time. That's stamina's lane. If you're trying to xv1 or xvx, you'll be fine. That is magicka's lane. If you're still struggling playing to magicka's strength, its time to start looking inward because the issue is you.

That is exactly the issue. Who decided that stam should be the only classes capable of 1vX/outnumbered PvP? Seriously, thats like saying women can't do anything but stay at home in the kitchen. Stamina chars and stamina sets can legit do everything much better then magicka can, except for supporting other players basically. it's completely unfair and stupid.

So much for play it your way, right ZO$?

Solaire

Thogard wrote: »

Stam DPS are tanky due to skillfully anticipating burst combos and blocking accordingly

Mag DPS can be tanky in the same way.

But actual tanks are people who build either heavy armor + a 5pc mitigation set, or who stack HP.

And those real tanks are predominantly magicka, because magicka has better tools for supporting those builds and that playstyle.

For PVE i would say you may be half right but for PVP, i don't see or have seen any magicka tanks, mainly Stamina,
yes they do work but the cost is a lot compared to Stamina so it's usually stamina.

usmguy1234

Solaire wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

This patch is trash but why is the thread labeled stam tank meta ? It’s not exclusive to stam , if anything it’s more prevalent with magic builds.

Wrong, it favors Stamina builds. haven't you been playing enough PVP?

Yeah , years of pvp and play both magic & stam. Magic builds still have more healing and utility at their disposal.

It’s not stam builds running around keeping themselves, zergs and ball groups alive. Some can dish out good off heals but again not at the same level as a mag build. Plus , the good defense and utility sets are only magic based.

It would be a different argument if you said stam was better at building tanky jack of all trade builds for small scale scenarios. But even that’s debatable these days since a lot of magic weaknesses have been covered by new additions to the game since launch. Only thing magic is typically missing is a large stam pool even though it’s people running around with 18-20k stam.

Nope, my StamDK can Heal, Tank and do tons of DMG it's a beast in PVP while my Mag builds stand no chance, so i just stick to my Stamina builds, Mags are super squishy they die before i even finish my rotation, you may be doing something wrong with your build cause they stand no chance against Stamina build.

Maybe you're playing your magicka builds wrong? If you're trying to 1vx on a magic class, you're going to have a bad time. That's stamina's lane. If you're trying to xv1 or xvx, you'll be fine. That is magicka's lane. If you're still struggling playing to magicka's strength, its time to start looking inward because the issue is you.

This is basically what i'm saying, it is Stamina's lane, Mags are only good for support in groups they are very good at it,
But outside of that they are a walking corpse.

C'est la vie! This is what the devolpers have made of the game... and trust me 1vx hasn't gotten easier for stamina. Cast time's on ultimate means that most fights against a brawny magicka player 1v1 will ultimately lead to a draw...or whoever has backup arrive first. I've had a few fights against magdens and magcros 1v1 that I couldn't even go offensive on because they were shreading my health. The strategy use to be run the magicka player out of stam and then burst them. You are hard pressed to do this against a well built magicka player. If the person is altmer with their stam regen passives you can almost kiss goodbye running them out of stam.

Nord_Raseri

Every time I see "Tank Meta" on these threads I'm thinking everyone is hating on my tank, but then I see you're actually talking about really tanky dps, and not actual tanks...

BaiterOfZergs

The only magic specs that are bad in 1vx scenarios are magnecro and magwarden. Magdk, Magplar and mag sorc definitely can hold their own right now.

Solaire

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Every time I see "Tank Meta" on these threads I'm thinking everyone is hating on my tank, but then I see you're actually talking about really tanky dps, and not actual tanks...

That's what everyone is running nowadays including myself a tanky boi with a lot of dps and healing, idk which type of tank urs is.

Solaire

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The only magic specs that are bad in 1vx scenarios are magnecro and magwarden. Magdk, Magplar and mag sorc definitely can hold their own right now.

idk, for me it's Wardens and Necros rather than Sorc, the only problem i had with Sorc is to target them while they hide behind their pets, which is super annoying but other than that once u target them they dead.

Wardens and Necros can do it better than Sorc from my own experience.

Nord_Raseri

Solaire wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Every time I see "Tank Meta" on these threads I'm thinking everyone is hating on my tank, but then I see you're actually talking about really tanky dps, and not actual tanks...

That's what everyone is running nowadays including myself a tanky boi with a lot of dps and healing, idk which type of tank urs is.

I've alway run my dps like that(In cyro). All but one of my characters are either tanky or a full tank, and I've been circulating those same ones for 3 years, barely any changes. Although I may still drop steadfast from my old heal/tank since it got nerfed.

BaiterOfZergs

Solaire wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The only magic specs that are bad in 1vx scenarios are magnecro and magwarden. Magdk, Magplar and mag sorc definitely can hold their own right now.

idk, for me it's Wardens and Necros rather than Sorc, the only problem i had with Sorc is to target them while they hide behind their pets, which is super annoying but other than that once u target them they dead.

Wardens and Necros can do it better than Sorc from my own experience.

Both of those specs you have to go the extra mile to pull off 1vx. When a class can completely out play a bunch of players and still lose because of a clunky kit, to me that’s a bad class for 1vx.

As far as small groups like 4 mans, mag classes aren’t really behind at all.

Iskiab

I hold my own solo magplar and MagWarden. Issue is moreso getting overwhelmed by small scale groups because of lack of speed. MagWarden in CP is tough because a lot of times you don’t have enough burst to take out someone solo, but it’s doable. Magplar plays a better kite and burst, LoS, and burst the first one who follows. I expect to win every 1v1 I come across, but I’m leery about stamwardens. I don’t win every 1v1, not even close, but I do okay.

Mag shine in small scale groups

Solaire

Iskiab wrote: »

I hold my own solo magplar and MagWarden. Issue is moreso getting overwhelmed by small scale groups because of lack of speed. MagWarden in CP is tough because a lot of times you don’t have enough burst to take out someone solo, but it’s doable. Magplar plays a better kite and burst, LoS, and burst the first one who follows. I expect to win every 1v1 I come across, but I’m leery about stamwardens. I don’t win every 1v1, not even close, but I do okay.

Mag shine in small scale groups

They do shine in small scale groups if the tanks are stupid, if you play against smart players, which whom they target the supports first,

i always target the mags first, because i know if i fight another tank dps someone in the back will support them so i'm screwed the best move is to take them out first which is way easier than dealing with a tank dps.

Iskiab

Solaire wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I hold my own solo magplar and MagWarden. Issue is moreso getting overwhelmed by small scale groups because of lack of speed. MagWarden in CP is tough because a lot of times you don’t have enough burst to take out someone solo, but it’s doable. Magplar plays a better kite and burst, LoS, and burst the first one who follows. I expect to win every 1v1 I come across, but I’m leery about stamwardens. I don’t win every 1v1, not even close, but I do okay.

Mag shine in small scale groups

They do shine in small scale groups if the tanks are stupid, if you play against smart players, which whom they target the supports first,

i always target the mags first, because i know if i fight another tank dps someone in the back will support them so i'm screwed the best move is to take them out first which is way easier than dealing with a tank dps.

Ah, how small is your group? I think around 6+ there’s no reason to bring stam at all.

Mag are generally squishier because stam choose all self heals and mag’s heals are a crap shoot. Half the time I’m trying to heal myself it goes to someone else.

You see this all the time in BGs. The new player who doesn’t heal themselves takes me out in the group because they steal all my healing. Stam and magsorcs can both be liabilities because of the design. I don’t have the sustain to carry others in BGs so we all die.

Mag isn’t weaker, it’s mostly how they’ve designed the self heals in the game. Bring 4 mag against 4 stam and the mag will do fine.

If they ever make rapid regen a self heal only it’ll be a lot easier to see it.

Solaire

Iskiab wrote: »

Solaire wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I hold my own solo magplar and MagWarden. Issue is moreso getting overwhelmed by small scale groups because of lack of speed. MagWarden in CP is tough because a lot of times you don’t have enough burst to take out someone solo, but it’s doable. Magplar plays a better kite and burst, LoS, and burst the first one who follows. I expect to win every 1v1 I come across, but I’m leery about stamwardens. I don’t win every 1v1, not even close, but I do okay.

Mag shine in small scale groups

They do shine in small scale groups if the tanks are stupid, if you play against smart players, which whom they target the supports first,

i always target the mags first, because i know if i fight another tank dps someone in the back will support them so i'm screwed the best move is to take them out first which is way easier than dealing with a tank dps.

Ah, how small is your group? I think around 6+ there’s no reason to bring stam at all.

Mag are generally squishier because stam choose all self heals and mag’s heals are a crap shoot. Half the time I’m trying to heal myself it goes to someone else.

You see this all the time in BGs. The new player who doesn’t heal themselves takes me out in the group because they steal all my healing. Stam and magsorcs can both be liabilities because of the design. I don’t have the sustain to carry others in BGs so we all die.

Mag isn’t weaker, it’s mostly how they’ve designed the self heals in the game. Bring 4 mag against 4 stam and the mag will do fine.

Maybe everyone has different expression based on the build or class they play,

But in the end no one could be as sneaky as that StamNB hiding in the distance shooting poison arrows
and stealing your kills,