The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
The State of the Game - and going forward
Woodenplank
✭✭✭✭
I've been playing ESO since the beta came out almost six years ago. I've enjoyed it; I've raged at it, I've "taken breaks" now and then; I've come back to rejoin my guildmates and gotten back into the world again and again.
Over the years I've thought a lot about what I like about the game, but sadly I find myself mostly thinking of what I dislike about it; what I think are its weaknesses, and what it could improve upon - because it certainly has potential, more so than any current MMO I know of.
This is not a quitting thread; it's a (long-winded) criticism of the game; its current and past state. Things that I and guildmates over the years have bemoaned and disliked; things that have made many other people (but not me!) quit. This is not a thread intended to whine and discourage people; its inteded to foster discussion and suggest improvements.
It's also rather long, as I have been playing for a long time I've compiled... a lot of thoughts. If you're not feeling up to the task, I recommend maybe just reading the whichever heading interests you most.
Thank you for your time, and please leave constructive criticism (I won't even mind you insulting me if you dislike my ideas, just make sure to follow the insults with "because...")
PVE Difficulty
Exploration, quests, and world design
Class identity, skills & build Homogeneity
Items, sets, and farming
On making changes/Summary
Of course, I realize ZOS most likely won't take me up on any of my suggestions (even if they like them). Because I'm mostly suggesting fixes and tweaks of the base game, or older DLC. A revamp of the CP and character strength systems that would take a long time to balance, and would undoubtedly throw many players into fits because they can no longer farm things as easily/reliably.
And there's no money in that; there's money in pumping out DLC and crown store accessories as fast as possible. Because that's what people keep buying to get new challenges as older dungeons/trials become dull slugfests, to get the mount or motif flavour of the month, etc. - and they will buy it, even though we all know it's likely full of bugs, because ZOS is in such a hurry to keep pumping them out.
ZOS has, after all, shown several times (with updates like One Tamriel) that they're willing to give the game a makeover. But it's a bleak hope at this point, I feel. I can't quite believe that ZOS will do much to improve the base game, to shake up the meta, to thoroughly root out bugs (small and large), and to offer a world where every zone is interesting and challenging; not just the ones from the latest crown store addition, and where there's room for a variety of builds and playstyles, both in PVE and PVP; a game where you can adventure through an exciting, diverse, and challenging world with a character of your own making and design; a game that feels like an Elder Scrolls - but with friends. Which is what I think we all hoped of ESO when it was first announced.
This is not a quitting thread. It's just seriously considerering my investment in this game.
Edited by Woodenplank on January 22, 2020 9:57PM Over the years I've thought a lot about what I like about the game, but sadly I find myself mostly thinking of what I dislike about it; what I think are its weaknesses, and what it could improve upon - because it certainly has potential, more so than any current MMO I know of.
This is not a quitting thread; it's a (long-winded) criticism of the game; its current and past state. Things that I and guildmates over the years have bemoaned and disliked; things that have made many other people (but not me!) quit. This is not a thread intended to whine and discourage people; its inteded to foster discussion and suggest improvements.
It's also rather long, as I have been playing for a long time I've compiled... a lot of thoughts. If you're not feeling up to the task, I recommend maybe just reading the whichever heading interests you most.
Thank you for your time, and please leave constructive criticism (I won't even mind you insulting me if you dislike my ideas, just make sure to follow the insults with "because...")
PVE Difficulty
Since One Tamriel and the introduction of the Champion Point system much of the game has been steadily getting easier. In fact, so much so that outside of the newest DLC most of the game is a breeze to CP 700+ players. Several veteran dungeons can actually be solo'ed, and a lot of bosses don't really get to play through their mechanics, because they die too fast.
An extreme example is a guild actually killing Rakkhat, the final boss in the Trial Maw of Lorkhaj, "by the third platform" that is to say; skipping about 80% of the fight's mechanics because their DPS was so high. I realize this is a very extreme case of a top 1% (or 0.1%) of players, but I think it's such a shame that any boss can be reduced to a DPS check. Because I think ZOS has generally been very good at designing encounters, the Twins and Rakkhat himself from Maw of Lorkhaj being fine examples of inventive Boss Fights. Even as far back as the Imperial City we saw ingenious and complex encounters such as Ibomez the Flesh Scuptor and Lord Warden Dusk, and the following DLCs have typically had well designed bosses as well (sure, there are always a few "slip ups" but overall I'm very positive).
The issue is that, although the CP cap is "frozen" at 810 now, it has still grown absurdly since One Tamriel (we started at 160), and while this is accounted for in each newly released DLC, the older ones (such as Imperial City) fall behind; so that Lord Warden Dusk, who has complicated and entertaining fight mechanics, is dead before he gets through all his voice lines.
And the base game is even more troubled by this. Most Veteran Dungeons don't require any sort of veterancy, and groups will typically not even bring a healer, opting instead for a third Damage-Dealer so you can skip through mechanics even faster. As a high level player, unless you're playing a DLC dungeons feel like a game set to novice-difficulty.
And "solo PVE" experiences are even worse in this regard.
I recently did the Dragonhold questline which, while entertaining in story/characters/dialogue (see below), offered pretty much nill in gameplay. For the "arena fight" I just used my Biting Jabs skill litterally 20 times, and I got through all 3 rounds of gladiator fighting. Killing a dragon? 8 seconds worth of jabbing and done, with virtually no damage taken.
And it's the same way for virtually any quest, and virtually any delve.
Public Dungeons; actually a pretty cool concept. But while Champion points have constantly risen since, public dungeons and their bosses have remained virtually unchanged. Nowadays a high-cp player can run in alone, fart in the general direction of the "group event" boss, get the skill point, and be out in two-minutes flat.
Molag Bal's Dark Anchors aren't spared either. I'm sure a lot of players remember when Dark Anchor arrivals were announced in zone chat, and people stood around and waited for other players to show up, because it was no small task taking one down. You go to Alik'r nowdays, a 30 foot Dread Flesh Colossus will die before it even hits the ground.
One Tamriel did a lot of good for the game; the ability to play with friends regardless of quest choices, alliances, and individual levels is great. The issue is that the CP scaling simply makes most content too easy. One Tamriel let me play alongside low level friends, who were new to the game. But because I was near the CP cap, the gameplay wasn't enjoyable for neither of us, because everything died in seconds even if I just spammed light attacks; high level characters are simply too strong for 90% of content, even with scaling.
Which is why I think we need a serious CP downscaling, or even a complete redesign. Sure, you would of course scale down the DLC dungeons/trials, which would otherwise become impossible, but I think it's a tragedy that all the game's quests are reduced to dialogue with absolutely no gameplay challenge. And "veteran" dungeons are mostly a breeze for higher level players.
The issue here is, that if people suddenly lost the ability to farm veteran dungeons at 5 mins per run, they would probably flood the forums with complaints. But I think the game definitely needs the shakeup - call it 'tough love', if you will.
I talked with a newer player a few weeks ago. And, while they enjoyed the gameplay of PVP, they were somewhat disappointed at how easily and readily available everything was. Want two full sets of epic gear, that'll pretty much last you into the veteran trials? Buy Mother's Sorrow off Guild Traders and have someone craft New Moon Acolyte for you. You're set.
The best sets are somewhat harder to get of course, but even a relatively poor player like me (I never manage more than 60k DPS) got a full set of Perfected False God after just three runs of Sunspire, running with a Guild. And I'm all geared up (at least until next DLC comes out...).
The game has no "wow, how'd you get that?" items. Sure, a Lokkestiz Dagger is "hard" to get, because it's based on random chance, but if someone has a full set of Perfected Lokkestiz + Relequen they're not really anything special. Thousands of people have farmed those sets in just a handful of trial runs.
And I think it's sad; because the Elder Scrolls have so many unique, legendary items to draw from and tonnes of way you could implement them... See "Items, sets, and farming" for more discussion on this.
An extreme example is a guild actually killing Rakkhat, the final boss in the Trial Maw of Lorkhaj, "by the third platform" that is to say; skipping about 80% of the fight's mechanics because their DPS was so high. I realize this is a very extreme case of a top 1% (or 0.1%) of players, but I think it's such a shame that any boss can be reduced to a DPS check. Because I think ZOS has generally been very good at designing encounters, the Twins and Rakkhat himself from Maw of Lorkhaj being fine examples of inventive Boss Fights. Even as far back as the Imperial City we saw ingenious and complex encounters such as Ibomez the Flesh Scuptor and Lord Warden Dusk, and the following DLCs have typically had well designed bosses as well (sure, there are always a few "slip ups" but overall I'm very positive).
The issue is that, although the CP cap is "frozen" at 810 now, it has still grown absurdly since One Tamriel (we started at 160), and while this is accounted for in each newly released DLC, the older ones (such as Imperial City) fall behind; so that Lord Warden Dusk, who has complicated and entertaining fight mechanics, is dead before he gets through all his voice lines.
And the base game is even more troubled by this. Most Veteran Dungeons don't require any sort of veterancy, and groups will typically not even bring a healer, opting instead for a third Damage-Dealer so you can skip through mechanics even faster. As a high level player, unless you're playing a DLC dungeons feel like a game set to novice-difficulty.
And "solo PVE" experiences are even worse in this regard.
I recently did the Dragonhold questline which, while entertaining in story/characters/dialogue (see below), offered pretty much nill in gameplay. For the "arena fight" I just used my Biting Jabs skill litterally 20 times, and I got through all 3 rounds of gladiator fighting. Killing a dragon? 8 seconds worth of jabbing and done, with virtually no damage taken.
And it's the same way for virtually any quest, and virtually any delve.
Public Dungeons; actually a pretty cool concept. But while Champion points have constantly risen since, public dungeons and their bosses have remained virtually unchanged. Nowadays a high-cp player can run in alone, fart in the general direction of the "group event" boss, get the skill point, and be out in two-minutes flat.
Molag Bal's Dark Anchors aren't spared either. I'm sure a lot of players remember when Dark Anchor arrivals were announced in zone chat, and people stood around and waited for other players to show up, because it was no small task taking one down. You go to Alik'r nowdays, a 30 foot Dread Flesh Colossus will die before it even hits the ground.
One Tamriel did a lot of good for the game; the ability to play with friends regardless of quest choices, alliances, and individual levels is great. The issue is that the CP scaling simply makes most content too easy. One Tamriel let me play alongside low level friends, who were new to the game. But because I was near the CP cap, the gameplay wasn't enjoyable for neither of us, because everything died in seconds even if I just spammed light attacks; high level characters are simply too strong for 90% of content, even with scaling.
Which is why I think we need a serious CP downscaling, or even a complete redesign. Sure, you would of course scale down the DLC dungeons/trials, which would otherwise become impossible, but I think it's a tragedy that all the game's quests are reduced to dialogue with absolutely no gameplay challenge. And "veteran" dungeons are mostly a breeze for higher level players.
The issue here is, that if people suddenly lost the ability to farm veteran dungeons at 5 mins per run, they would probably flood the forums with complaints. But I think the game definitely needs the shakeup - call it 'tough love', if you will.
I talked with a newer player a few weeks ago. And, while they enjoyed the gameplay of PVP, they were somewhat disappointed at how easily and readily available everything was. Want two full sets of epic gear, that'll pretty much last you into the veteran trials? Buy Mother's Sorrow off Guild Traders and have someone craft New Moon Acolyte for you. You're set.
The best sets are somewhat harder to get of course, but even a relatively poor player like me (I never manage more than 60k DPS) got a full set of Perfected False God after just three runs of Sunspire, running with a Guild. And I'm all geared up (at least until next DLC comes out...).
The game has no "wow, how'd you get that?" items. Sure, a Lokkestiz Dagger is "hard" to get, because it's based on random chance, but if someone has a full set of Perfected Lokkestiz + Relequen they're not really anything special. Thousands of people have farmed those sets in just a handful of trial runs.
And I think it's sad; because the Elder Scrolls have so many unique, legendary items to draw from and tonnes of way you could implement them... See "Items, sets, and farming" for more discussion on this.
Exploration, quests, and world design
I am sick and tired of seeing Alits all over the place. They were fun and different when we first saw them in Morrowind (TES 3 that is). But now we find that these creatures, who were indigenous to volcanic wastelands, are apparently indigenous to pretty much anywhere. Blackmarsh; okay, it shares a border with Morrowind, some might have wandered south, but the jungles of Valenwood? On the other side of the continent? So wildly different from Stonefalls? Or Khenarthi's Roost; an isolated island by the southwest tip of the continent, about as far from Vvardenfell as you can get? Sure! got wild alits en masse. Northern Elsweyr? Sure, it's just a new Chapter zone, people won't expect new, different, interesting creatures.
And they also put welvas on Summerset, and the legendary Wamasu lizards of Blackmarsh in the deserts of upper Craglorn, and stuck a few in Valenwood jungles for good measure.
Speaking of Valenwood, you know they have wooly mammoths there? Exact copies of the ones in Skyrim? Why not copy-paste the model; skin it white/grey with wrinky skin and call it elephant instead, and you're done! Animal diversity right there. No need to use the same creatures over and over and over again for every zone.
Another gross offender is "trolls" - which appear not only in most of the base game, but also got put into several DLC. Sometimes it's okay; putting them in Wrothgarr was cool, because it neighbours Skyrim, and its homeland of the orcs and goblin-ken and all. But Southern Elsweyr and Vvardenfell? Why? And those zones actually have fairly interesting biomes (giant armadillos and wierd terror birds; shroom beetles and fetcherflies, nix'thingies, etc) - but ZOS couldn't resist throwing a few trolls in there as well... Because who wouldn't want Elsweyr and Morrowind to remind them of Skyrim and Cyrodiil... ?
And when new, interesting creatures and species are introduced (such as Haj-mota) they invariably get reused; often halfway across the continent.
And if this was only an issue among overland creatures I might forgive it, but it pervades Dungeons as well. How many times have you fought a Bone Colossus (big flaming skeleton thing) as a boss? Many Ebonheart Pact players first saw one as Baldreth in Stonefalls, but they pop up everywhere; as a boss in Vaults of Madness, or twice over in Crypt of Hearts (Death's Leviathan in I, and Llambris Amalgam in II); How often have you fought a Harvester with the same old mechanics? Or a Lich using the same set of spells - Crypt of Hearts I, Vaults of Madness, Wayrest Sewers II, Fang Lair are just some of the places with Lich Bosses. They're everywhere.
In fact a lot of "villains" and daedric enemies just cycle through the same handful of characters. I don't want to be all negative; so I'll say that the Daedric Titan is easily one of my favourite monster models in any video game. They're big, scary, and draconic without simply being dragons. But like so many other otherwisely awesome creatures, you get tired of them when they're made delve bosses, dungeon bosses, main quest bosses, dolmen bosses, and so on and so on. The first time I saw a daedric titan I was staggered by how awesome they looked, swooping in from the skies. Now it's a yawn.
Speaking of daedra, it seems the Princes have some sort of diversity hire plan going on, because they keep needlessly sharing minions. Golden Saints, which were always associated with Sheogorath and the Shivering Isle, apparently also serve Meridia along the Aurorans (I assume some developer pointed out they both wear golden armor, and thus must both serve Meridia). Likewise Dark Seducers - again, homed in the Shivering Isle - also serve Molag Bal, because his army wears black. In one of the Anchor fights, Molag Bal will explain that "most dremora serve Dagon", but Bal clearly shows his dremora-based army for the rest of the game. And he isn't afraid of using a few Bone Colossi or Liches either... And it's not that ZOS are incapable of creating unique daedra - just think of Shrikes and those creepy raven monsters from the Evergloam - but they usually don't.
In a nutshell (and I promise this will be the meanest comment I make); it seems that to ZOS taking an Elder Scrolls game across the entire continent, opening up all of Tamriel for us to explore became not an opportunity to let their imagination loose and freely create, but rather an excercise in how much copy-paste they could get away with.
I'm not saying the game is devoid of entertaining PVE experiences - As mentioned I was very much entertained with Za'ji and Caska from Dragonhold, and while the Psijic skill line was a slog, it was somewhat alleviated by the Augur of the Obscure (Thank you again, Ben Driskin, and whoever wrote the lines). I also enjoyed the Clockwork City - mostly because of the conversation with Sotha Sil towards the end, which was amazing (lorewise and all that stuff).
In fact, the main quest lines for each zone are often a good run, but, as mentioned, they offer no real difficulty (any "bosses" have irrelevant mechanics and die in about ten seconds). It's mostly that the zones are full of quest areas that... aren't exactly riveting. And so damnably often it follows the same formula, where as you approach an area an NPC runs up to you shouting a variation of: "Hold traveler! Speak to me before entering; I'm wounded, please help!; No, do not go this way. There's danger up ahead; Ahh, I've been waiting for someone to come by, etc. etc." And it gets rather annoying. In previous Elder Scrolls titles you might happen upon quests in town that would take you around. Or you'd go actively seeking work in guilds, taverns, etc. ESO tries to force a quest down your throat every time you pass by a bit of rubble.
Even in Coldharbour, which is pretty much the pinnacle of the base game (story wise), we're following the same old routines. An alien, daedric plane to explore, and instead of originality we're treated to another trying-too-hard-to-be-funny bout of Lady Clarissa Laurent and her manservant, or helping the Vanos siblings explore another ayleid ruin - pretty much exactly what we did back in Tamriel, but just truncated to a gloomier setting.
And it annoys me because Coldharbour has so much potential. Look at what TES community members, such as Vicn of Nexusmods did with the concept. A Skyrim modder created a more intriguing, exciting and full version of Coldharbour by themselves as a Skyrim mod than ZOS' whole team did in ESO (okay, that was a mean comment as well. Sorry; but seriously, if you play Skyrim check out the mod here; it's staggeringly huge, complex, and captivating).
But ESO offers little of what Coldharbour could've been; take for instance the story of the Daedric Titans. They were created after Molag Bal lured a dragon, Boziikkodstrun, to Coldharbour; tore his soul out, and used the skeleton to create a daedric titan. Why not have a quest where we help Boziikkodstrun's soul escape to Aetherius/Akatosh? You could even make it a quest line where you collect his fragmented soul from various locations - maybe this is hubris, but I think it would make for a more compelling story than helping Stibbons escape a lewd Winged Twilight.
In fact, I think the game could do with fewer quests; but just make individual quests longer chains and award more experience, perhaps with a few worthwhile items put in. Because right now the most efficient way to level is the mind-bogglingly boring Dolmen farming in Alik'r; it'd be nice to have an MMO which actually awarded playing through all these quests and stories.
The Elder Scrolls probably have one of the most dedicated and enthusiastic fan bases of any video game franchise. Just look at all the community has created in mods for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, and internet discussion (or look at how much I write, just to complain). Why not use that? You could hold a "quest design competition" - ZOS wouldn't even need to invest a lot; just set up a few ground rules, and read through the top-voted suggestions by the community. I'm sure you wouldn't even need cash prizes or the like; most people would be honored to simply have something they invented put into the game.
Food for thought.
And they also put welvas on Summerset, and the legendary Wamasu lizards of Blackmarsh in the deserts of upper Craglorn, and stuck a few in Valenwood jungles for good measure.
Speaking of Valenwood, you know they have wooly mammoths there? Exact copies of the ones in Skyrim? Why not copy-paste the model; skin it white/grey with wrinky skin and call it elephant instead, and you're done! Animal diversity right there. No need to use the same creatures over and over and over again for every zone.
Another gross offender is "trolls" - which appear not only in most of the base game, but also got put into several DLC. Sometimes it's okay; putting them in Wrothgarr was cool, because it neighbours Skyrim, and its homeland of the orcs and goblin-ken and all. But Southern Elsweyr and Vvardenfell? Why? And those zones actually have fairly interesting biomes (giant armadillos and wierd terror birds; shroom beetles and fetcherflies, nix'thingies, etc) - but ZOS couldn't resist throwing a few trolls in there as well... Because who wouldn't want Elsweyr and Morrowind to remind them of Skyrim and Cyrodiil... ?
And when new, interesting creatures and species are introduced (such as Haj-mota) they invariably get reused; often halfway across the continent.
And if this was only an issue among overland creatures I might forgive it, but it pervades Dungeons as well. How many times have you fought a Bone Colossus (big flaming skeleton thing) as a boss? Many Ebonheart Pact players first saw one as Baldreth in Stonefalls, but they pop up everywhere; as a boss in Vaults of Madness, or twice over in Crypt of Hearts (Death's Leviathan in I, and Llambris Amalgam in II); How often have you fought a Harvester with the same old mechanics? Or a Lich using the same set of spells - Crypt of Hearts I, Vaults of Madness, Wayrest Sewers II, Fang Lair are just some of the places with Lich Bosses. They're everywhere.
In fact a lot of "villains" and daedric enemies just cycle through the same handful of characters. I don't want to be all negative; so I'll say that the Daedric Titan is easily one of my favourite monster models in any video game. They're big, scary, and draconic without simply being dragons. But like so many other otherwisely awesome creatures, you get tired of them when they're made delve bosses, dungeon bosses, main quest bosses, dolmen bosses, and so on and so on. The first time I saw a daedric titan I was staggered by how awesome they looked, swooping in from the skies. Now it's a yawn.
Speaking of daedra, it seems the Princes have some sort of diversity hire plan going on, because they keep needlessly sharing minions. Golden Saints, which were always associated with Sheogorath and the Shivering Isle, apparently also serve Meridia along the Aurorans (I assume some developer pointed out they both wear golden armor, and thus must both serve Meridia). Likewise Dark Seducers - again, homed in the Shivering Isle - also serve Molag Bal, because his army wears black. In one of the Anchor fights, Molag Bal will explain that "most dremora serve Dagon", but Bal clearly shows his dremora-based army for the rest of the game. And he isn't afraid of using a few Bone Colossi or Liches either... And it's not that ZOS are incapable of creating unique daedra - just think of Shrikes and those creepy raven monsters from the Evergloam - but they usually don't.
In a nutshell (and I promise this will be the meanest comment I make); it seems that to ZOS taking an Elder Scrolls game across the entire continent, opening up all of Tamriel for us to explore became not an opportunity to let their imagination loose and freely create, but rather an excercise in how much copy-paste they could get away with.
I'm not saying the game is devoid of entertaining PVE experiences - As mentioned I was very much entertained with Za'ji and Caska from Dragonhold, and while the Psijic skill line was a slog, it was somewhat alleviated by the Augur of the Obscure (Thank you again, Ben Driskin, and whoever wrote the lines). I also enjoyed the Clockwork City - mostly because of the conversation with Sotha Sil towards the end, which was amazing (lorewise and all that stuff).
In fact, the main quest lines for each zone are often a good run, but, as mentioned, they offer no real difficulty (any "bosses" have irrelevant mechanics and die in about ten seconds). It's mostly that the zones are full of quest areas that... aren't exactly riveting. And so damnably often it follows the same formula, where as you approach an area an NPC runs up to you shouting a variation of: "Hold traveler! Speak to me before entering; I'm wounded, please help!; No, do not go this way. There's danger up ahead; Ahh, I've been waiting for someone to come by, etc. etc." And it gets rather annoying. In previous Elder Scrolls titles you might happen upon quests in town that would take you around. Or you'd go actively seeking work in guilds, taverns, etc. ESO tries to force a quest down your throat every time you pass by a bit of rubble.
Even in Coldharbour, which is pretty much the pinnacle of the base game (story wise), we're following the same old routines. An alien, daedric plane to explore, and instead of originality we're treated to another trying-too-hard-to-be-funny bout of Lady Clarissa Laurent and her manservant, or helping the Vanos siblings explore another ayleid ruin - pretty much exactly what we did back in Tamriel, but just truncated to a gloomier setting.
And it annoys me because Coldharbour has so much potential. Look at what TES community members, such as Vicn of Nexusmods did with the concept. A Skyrim modder created a more intriguing, exciting and full version of Coldharbour by themselves as a Skyrim mod than ZOS' whole team did in ESO (okay, that was a mean comment as well. Sorry; but seriously, if you play Skyrim check out the mod here; it's staggeringly huge, complex, and captivating).
But ESO offers little of what Coldharbour could've been; take for instance the story of the Daedric Titans. They were created after Molag Bal lured a dragon, Boziikkodstrun, to Coldharbour; tore his soul out, and used the skeleton to create a daedric titan. Why not have a quest where we help Boziikkodstrun's soul escape to Aetherius/Akatosh? You could even make it a quest line where you collect his fragmented soul from various locations - maybe this is hubris, but I think it would make for a more compelling story than helping Stibbons escape a lewd Winged Twilight.
In fact, I think the game could do with fewer quests; but just make individual quests longer chains and award more experience, perhaps with a few worthwhile items put in. Because right now the most efficient way to level is the mind-bogglingly boring Dolmen farming in Alik'r; it'd be nice to have an MMO which actually awarded playing through all these quests and stories.
The Elder Scrolls probably have one of the most dedicated and enthusiastic fan bases of any video game franchise. Just look at all the community has created in mods for Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO, and internet discussion (or look at how much I write, just to complain). Why not use that? You could hold a "quest design competition" - ZOS wouldn't even need to invest a lot; just set up a few ground rules, and read through the top-voted suggestions by the community. I'm sure you wouldn't even need cash prizes or the like; most people would be honored to simply have something they invented put into the game.
Food for thought.
Class identity, skills & build Homogeneity
So in this section I want to talk about class identity - what makes ESO's classes distinct from one another.
The Elder Scrolls always tried to be more freeform with classes than most RPGs. A lot of RPGs give you a strict path based on class. Consider Classic WoW for instance; "Warriors" could tank or DPS using warrior skills, and druids could heal using druid skills (and had DPS & tank builds so bad, that they really only ever healed). In the Elder Scrolls classes are more a sort of vague perks and flavours, rather than being a strict guideline. You could, if you wished, have a Templar and a Necromancer with identical skill setups and gear, by utilizing the "class-less" skill lines, such as Weapons- or Guild-skill lines.
And some of the later DLCs (Wrathstone, Elsweyr specifically) did a lot to bring out some of the less used of these "free for all" skills: Degeneration/Entropy became a main stream dot, and Soul Trap suddenly found use in a lot of builds, alongside the already popular weapon skills such as "Elemental Wall" or "Volley".
This is both good and bad. It's good because it allows for a great degree of freedom. If you play a Sorcerer, you don't have to be a spell-slinging, daedra-summoning, Mages Guild bookwork. You can grab a couple of daggers and stab away like crazy with Dual Wield skills.
It's also a bad thing, because those common skills are so absurdly good, or "meta", that they're automatically included in most builds, so that in "serious" PVE setups, the difference between a Templar, Sorcerer, and Nightblade usually comes down to two or three skills. For instance, a good deal of stamina builds nowadays will follow a pattern pretty much like this:
Bar 1: Rearming Trap --- Rending Slashes --- Actual Class spammable! --- Execute skill* - A class dot!? (or another FG skill, for passive) --- Flawless Dawnbreaker
Bar 2: Poison Injection --- Volley --- Rearming Trap (again, for Fighter's Guild passive) --- Soul Trap --- Resolving Vigor --- Ballista
And fret not, if you haven't got a Class spammable or Execute you like, you can just use a Dual-Wield or Two-hand skill in either case.
I know there are many exceptions to the above (my favourite Stamplar build at the moment does uses volley, but otherwise consists off maximum uptime of Jabs+PotL), but you must admit that Volley, Poison Injection, Rearming Trap are nigh omnipresent. And they all seem to be wearing Lokkesitz+Relequen with a Maelstrom Bow on backbar.
Magicka builds aren't much better. Aside from sets being used almost unanimously (False God, Siroria, Mother's Sorrow will work for any magicka DD), theres a couple of totally ubiquitous parts:
The Elemental Weapon spammable, and the Maelstrom Inferno Staff + Wall of Fire combo. These two tools are so staggeringly ahead of the curve that any magicka DPS build which omits them, is only doing so to be smug about not using them (sort of like people saying they no longer use social media).
And it's not that there aren't good class-spambles in the mix: Molten Whip, or Templars' Puncturing Sweep are both good, and rather iconic for their classes. But a. They're not that much better than Elemental Weapon and b. They're close range, and then you might as well be Stamina.
And speaking of Stamina; it's a bit of a miss that they're exclusively melee, and bow/bow is a joke (outside of PVP). Bows in ESO's PVE exist almost exlusively to fire Poison Injection and a Maelstrom-Bow volley from point-blank range.*
I think this is rather sad... and I honestly believe that skills like Elemental Weapon, and the universal Maelstrom+Volley/Wall need a slight nerf to open up for more variety (read what I wrote: not "nerfed to absolutely uselessness", just slight nerf to encourage other options).
Now I'm generally against nerfing things for being too popular, as it's often better to just buff the alternatives. But you also have to be careful with buffing; buffing Molten Whip or Force Pulse might inadvertedly make some PVP build overpowered, so you'll have to get creative (but there are plenty of ways to make a strong PVE spell/set without accidentally upsetting PVP meta).
In the case of PVP I think class diversity is at a much healthier stage. Nightblades weave in and out of stealth, slashing and stabbing (pretty much what you'd think a Nightblade would be doing); Templars lock down an area with Cleansing Ritual and Runes and jab the devil out of anyone that gets close, Sorcs zip around at lightning speed (excuse the pun, sorry), and (magicka) Dragonknights get a lot of mileage out of iconic class skills like Wings, Flame Lash and, of course, Dragon Leap.
In PVP you can usually tell which class you're against within 5 seconds of fighting. In PVE, you could spend a lot of time looking at a Magicka DD, and never see anything but Elemental Weapon, Trap, Elements, and a Mages guild skill or two.
*here's a footnoted suggestion, because most people will hate it: Give bow skills a minimum range. Split Stamina DDs into melee (could be Twohand/Dual-wield builds) and bow/bow ranged builds. Needs a lot of work; but would certainly spice things up.... And give a counter to those annoying bow gank builds in PVP...
The Elder Scrolls always tried to be more freeform with classes than most RPGs. A lot of RPGs give you a strict path based on class. Consider Classic WoW for instance; "Warriors" could tank or DPS using warrior skills, and druids could heal using druid skills (and had DPS & tank builds so bad, that they really only ever healed). In the Elder Scrolls classes are more a sort of vague perks and flavours, rather than being a strict guideline. You could, if you wished, have a Templar and a Necromancer with identical skill setups and gear, by utilizing the "class-less" skill lines, such as Weapons- or Guild-skill lines.
And some of the later DLCs (Wrathstone, Elsweyr specifically) did a lot to bring out some of the less used of these "free for all" skills: Degeneration/Entropy became a main stream dot, and Soul Trap suddenly found use in a lot of builds, alongside the already popular weapon skills such as "Elemental Wall" or "Volley".
This is both good and bad. It's good because it allows for a great degree of freedom. If you play a Sorcerer, you don't have to be a spell-slinging, daedra-summoning, Mages Guild bookwork. You can grab a couple of daggers and stab away like crazy with Dual Wield skills.
It's also a bad thing, because those common skills are so absurdly good, or "meta", that they're automatically included in most builds, so that in "serious" PVE setups, the difference between a Templar, Sorcerer, and Nightblade usually comes down to two or three skills. For instance, a good deal of stamina builds nowadays will follow a pattern pretty much like this:
Bar 1: Rearming Trap --- Rending Slashes --- Actual Class spammable! --- Execute skill* - A class dot!? (or another FG skill, for passive) --- Flawless Dawnbreaker
Bar 2: Poison Injection --- Volley --- Rearming Trap (again, for Fighter's Guild passive) --- Soul Trap --- Resolving Vigor --- Ballista
And fret not, if you haven't got a Class spammable or Execute you like, you can just use a Dual-Wield or Two-hand skill in either case.
I know there are many exceptions to the above (my favourite Stamplar build at the moment does uses volley, but otherwise consists off maximum uptime of Jabs+PotL), but you must admit that Volley, Poison Injection, Rearming Trap are nigh omnipresent. And they all seem to be wearing Lokkesitz+Relequen with a Maelstrom Bow on backbar.
Magicka builds aren't much better. Aside from sets being used almost unanimously (False God, Siroria, Mother's Sorrow will work for any magicka DD), theres a couple of totally ubiquitous parts:
The Elemental Weapon spammable, and the Maelstrom Inferno Staff + Wall of Fire combo. These two tools are so staggeringly ahead of the curve that any magicka DPS build which omits them, is only doing so to be smug about not using them (sort of like people saying they no longer use social media).
And it's not that there aren't good class-spambles in the mix: Molten Whip, or Templars' Puncturing Sweep are both good, and rather iconic for their classes. But a. They're not that much better than Elemental Weapon and b. They're close range, and then you might as well be Stamina.
And speaking of Stamina; it's a bit of a miss that they're exclusively melee, and bow/bow is a joke (outside of PVP). Bows in ESO's PVE exist almost exlusively to fire Poison Injection and a Maelstrom-Bow volley from point-blank range.*
I think this is rather sad... and I honestly believe that skills like Elemental Weapon, and the universal Maelstrom+Volley/Wall need a slight nerf to open up for more variety (read what I wrote: not "nerfed to absolutely uselessness", just slight nerf to encourage other options).
Now I'm generally against nerfing things for being too popular, as it's often better to just buff the alternatives. But you also have to be careful with buffing; buffing Molten Whip or Force Pulse might inadvertedly make some PVP build overpowered, so you'll have to get creative (but there are plenty of ways to make a strong PVE spell/set without accidentally upsetting PVP meta).
In the case of PVP I think class diversity is at a much healthier stage. Nightblades weave in and out of stealth, slashing and stabbing (pretty much what you'd think a Nightblade would be doing); Templars lock down an area with Cleansing Ritual and Runes and jab the devil out of anyone that gets close, Sorcs zip around at lightning speed (excuse the pun, sorry), and (magicka) Dragonknights get a lot of mileage out of iconic class skills like Wings, Flame Lash and, of course, Dragon Leap.
In PVP you can usually tell which class you're against within 5 seconds of fighting. In PVE, you could spend a lot of time looking at a Magicka DD, and never see anything but Elemental Weapon, Trap, Elements, and a Mages guild skill or two.
*here's a footnoted suggestion, because most people will hate it: Give bow skills a minimum range. Split Stamina DDs into melee (could be Twohand/Dual-wield builds) and bow/bow ranged builds. Needs a lot of work; but would certainly spice things up.... And give a counter to those annoying bow gank builds in PVP...
Items, sets, and farming
Now, I mentioned earlier that ESO has no "wow!" items. Virtually any set or specific item can be farmed fairly easily (especially since Perfected versions of Sunspire sets don't even require hardmode), or simply crafted or purchased off of a Guild Store. The (arguably) hardest items to obtain are the Perfected Asylum weapons, as they require a full hardmode of Asylum Sanctorium - that is, unless you happen to get them from weekly rewards - the issue with that is, of course, that they're mostly useless nowadays.
Don't get me wrong; I actually very much like much of the itemisation in ESO. "Set items" are readily available and intrinsic to build design, overland zones always have their own sets, crafting is actually relevant (in many games it's nothing but a shoddy stepping stone to dungeon/Raid gear, which is often the only place to find "sets") with several worthwhile sets.
And sure; there's also a lot of gimicky, useless, or downright stupid sets... but that's alright, because there's so much to choose from any way.
I say there are a lot of sets to choose from, and indeed there are. But "meta" builds usually boil down to about 5 sets, and then the ever-present Maelstrom Inferno Staff and Bow.
If I say "Lokkestiz, Relequen, Siroria's, Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Maelstrom weapon" I'll have covered the gear recommendations for about 90% of damage dealer builds at the moment; regardless of class choice. Not that there aren't other choices (I managed about 60k DPS myself with the silly "Succession" set from Maelstrom), but none are quite as good, and I've even heard of guildmates who were kicked for not wearing meta sets (i.e. for experimenting).
You could shake up the meta by nerfing these sets, but that's a horribly stupid solution. Besides; players would just home in on another set; or there'd be a new DLC with a better one... You might argue that "one set will always be best" but it doesn't have to be like that, at least not by such a large margin.
I think I've made it clear through this rant that a. I don't like the meta of everyone using the same 2-3 sets and ability setup, and b. I don't like how most items are super easy to acquire (if you're a little lucky).
However, this would be a sad post if I didn't at least try to suggest a solution. So here goes two birds with one stone:
First; buff/change some of the least popular/most useless set. But ZOS already does this occasionally... My "big" suggestion is: Introduce rare, unique/artifact items. To clarify:
Now, to acquire these items I wish to create something new - at least new to ESO - so I'll be shamelessly taking inspiration from somethings out of Classic WoW - because people freaking loved it then, and it could work in ESO as well.
There are several ways to implement these items, so that they won't be easily farmed by just anyone. The best option as I see is to use the leaderboard. For example being in the top group for weekly Sanctum Ophidia could include a "Celestial Serpent Scale" or whatever, which is a bound item. Useless in itself, but combine 5 of them (i.e. be top group for 5 weeks) you can combine to form an item... which starts a quest. And without working out all the details, maybe you also need the help of a 9-trait crafter to create components, and farm some more stuff in another trial, etc. etc. and eventually you get to make an/a-pair of really strong items. Something like
I'm just spitballing here. And didn't want anything TOO busted.
There could also be easier ones. Like... maybe Nahviintaas Hardmode *maybe* grants 1 "scale of Alkosh", and you combine 5 or 10 of those to form
Again, I'm just spit balling here (and trying to think of something that won't be busted, should it fall into the hands of a PVP player), because you'd need several appliances of DoTs to actually achieve the full effect, which would be rare in PVP, but just a few rotations in PVE DPS.
Or maybe just "singlet" items that rarely drop from certain bosses. I'm sure there could be hundreds of different implementations in a game as big as ESO.
You could even tie some to quests. Because, let's face it, ESO's current quest rewards are typically dung. If you complete the entirety of the Main Quest, saving Tamriel, you might get an Infused Healing staff from a *** DPS set... This seems like a good place to introduce a unique weapon/armor piece, that's actually useful instead. And there'd be no complaints of "only super lucky players get this set, it's unfair," because everyone can complete the Main Quest once per character.
Of course, I'm not saying the Main Quest should give the best damn weapon in the whole game - that'd be stupid - but at least make it yield something unique and useful that could, just maybe, be used in a build some time.
These were just a few suggestions off the top of my head - take them with a grain of salt. The idea is to create items that are truly hard/time-consuming to get, that players could pride themselves on having finally gotten, and also to shake up the ubiquitous 2Monster + 5body + 5Jewelery/frontbar + Maelstrom weapon meta, and offering alternatives.
Don't get me wrong; I actually very much like much of the itemisation in ESO. "Set items" are readily available and intrinsic to build design, overland zones always have their own sets, crafting is actually relevant (in many games it's nothing but a shoddy stepping stone to dungeon/Raid gear, which is often the only place to find "sets") with several worthwhile sets.
And sure; there's also a lot of gimicky, useless, or downright stupid sets... but that's alright, because there's so much to choose from any way.
I say there are a lot of sets to choose from, and indeed there are. But "meta" builds usually boil down to about 5 sets, and then the ever-present Maelstrom Inferno Staff and Bow.
If I say "Lokkestiz, Relequen, Siroria's, Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Maelstrom weapon" I'll have covered the gear recommendations for about 90% of damage dealer builds at the moment; regardless of class choice. Not that there aren't other choices (I managed about 60k DPS myself with the silly "Succession" set from Maelstrom), but none are quite as good, and I've even heard of guildmates who were kicked for not wearing meta sets (i.e. for experimenting).
You could shake up the meta by nerfing these sets, but that's a horribly stupid solution. Besides; players would just home in on another set; or there'd be a new DLC with a better one... You might argue that "one set will always be best" but it doesn't have to be like that, at least not by such a large margin.
I think I've made it clear through this rant that a. I don't like the meta of everyone using the same 2-3 sets and ability setup, and b. I don't like how most items are super easy to acquire (if you're a little lucky).
However, this would be a sad post if I didn't at least try to suggest a solution. So here goes two birds with one stone:
First; buff/change some of the least popular/most useless set. But ZOS already does this occasionally... My "big" suggestion is: Introduce rare, unique/artifact items. To clarify:
- Do I mean overpowered items that make you godlike? No, of course not.
- Do I mean unique items that are challenging/time-consuming to acquire and offer an improved, or at least alternate way to build your character? Yes!
Now, to acquire these items I wish to create something new - at least new to ESO - so I'll be shamelessly taking inspiration from somethings out of Classic WoW - because people freaking loved it then, and it could work in ESO as well.
There are several ways to implement these items, so that they won't be easily farmed by just anyone. The best option as I see is to use the leaderboard. For example being in the top group for weekly Sanctum Ophidia could include a "Celestial Serpent Scale" or whatever, which is a bound item. Useless in itself, but combine 5 of them (i.e. be top group for 5 weeks) you can combine to form an item... which starts a quest. And without working out all the details, maybe you also need the help of a 9-trait crafter to create components, and farm some more stuff in another trial, etc. etc. and eventually you get to make an/a-pair of really strong items. Something like
"Celestial Fangs" - twin daggers - Nirnhoned, Precise or Sharpened trait
(2)-piece set bonus - 300 stamina. Applying a Physical, Poison, or Disease damage over time ability grants a stack of Draconic Focus, increasing weapon crit by 520 for 10 seconds, up to 10 stacks. Upon reaching 10 stacks, also gain Major Berserk.
I'm just spitballing here. And didn't want anything TOO busted.
There could also be easier ones. Like... maybe Nahviintaas Hardmode *maybe* grants 1 "scale of Alkosh", and you combine 5 or 10 of those to form
"Golden Scales of Alkosh" - Chest piece, Heavy - Tri-stat enchant, Infused trait
(1)-piece set bonus -
Whenever you restore Stamina or Magicka from a Synergy, restore half as much to 5 nearby group members
Taunting an enemy grants Major Slayer to up to 11 nearby group members for 5 seconds. This can occur once every 15 seconds.
Again, I'm just spit balling here (and trying to think of something that won't be busted, should it fall into the hands of a PVP player), because you'd need several appliances of DoTs to actually achieve the full effect, which would be rare in PVP, but just a few rotations in PVE DPS.
Or maybe just "singlet" items that rarely drop from certain bosses. I'm sure there could be hundreds of different implementations in a game as big as ESO.
You could even tie some to quests. Because, let's face it, ESO's current quest rewards are typically dung. If you complete the entirety of the Main Quest, saving Tamriel, you might get an Infused Healing staff from a *** DPS set... This seems like a good place to introduce a unique weapon/armor piece, that's actually useful instead. And there'd be no complaints of "only super lucky players get this set, it's unfair," because everyone can complete the Main Quest once per character.
Of course, I'm not saying the Main Quest should give the best damn weapon in the whole game - that'd be stupid - but at least make it yield something unique and useful that could, just maybe, be used in a build some time.
These were just a few suggestions off the top of my head - take them with a grain of salt. The idea is to create items that are truly hard/time-consuming to get, that players could pride themselves on having finally gotten, and also to shake up the ubiquitous 2Monster + 5body + 5Jewelery/frontbar + Maelstrom weapon meta, and offering alternatives.
On making changes/Summary
Over the past few weeks I don't think I've gone a single day without seeing at least one person in Guild chat snapping and raging over this or that bug, massive lag spike, BG matchmaking (thankfully ZOS has adressed that, bless them), new set of changes, or crown store additions or DLC. In a nutshell, I honestly think the ESO community is the most grumbling and complaining gaming community I've ever heard of/joined. But the trouble is that most of the complaints are valid
If you look at the latest PTS patch notes (leading to Greymoor) you'll see a bunch of fixes to charge/leap abilities:
And this is not a standout or rare case. Plenty of things were broken for years since release, and many still are.
If you look at the latest PTS patch notes (leading to Greymoor) you'll see a bunch of fixes to charge/leap abilities:
And I'm glad they fixed that, of course. But this isn't some new thing introdudced in the latest DLC. These are things that have been in the game since release in 2014 (that's almost six years ago), and ZOS is only just now fixing a problem where "this whole group of abilities didn't work reliably.""Fixed an issue where some leap and charge abilities could not be cast while immobilized; Fixed an issue..., fixed an issue..., Fixed an issue where many leap and charge abilities would fail to apply their effects if you began sprinting after activating them."
And this is not a standout or rare case. Plenty of things were broken for years since release, and many still are.
Of course, I realize ZOS most likely won't take me up on any of my suggestions (even if they like them). Because I'm mostly suggesting fixes and tweaks of the base game, or older DLC. A revamp of the CP and character strength systems that would take a long time to balance, and would undoubtedly throw many players into fits because they can no longer farm things as easily/reliably.
And there's no money in that; there's money in pumping out DLC and crown store accessories as fast as possible. Because that's what people keep buying to get new challenges as older dungeons/trials become dull slugfests, to get the mount or motif flavour of the month, etc. - and they will buy it, even though we all know it's likely full of bugs, because ZOS is in such a hurry to keep pumping them out.
ZOS has, after all, shown several times (with updates like One Tamriel) that they're willing to give the game a makeover. But it's a bleak hope at this point, I feel. I can't quite believe that ZOS will do much to improve the base game, to shake up the meta, to thoroughly root out bugs (small and large), and to offer a world where every zone is interesting and challenging; not just the ones from the latest crown store addition, and where there's room for a variety of builds and playstyles, both in PVE and PVP; a game where you can adventure through an exciting, diverse, and challenging world with a character of your own making and design; a game that feels like an Elder Scrolls - but with friends. Which is what I think we all hoped of ESO when it was first announced.
This is not a quitting thread. It's just seriously considerering my investment in this game.
I think it is central to ESO's well-being to critique the developers when they change the game (or fail to change something).
But the negativity can be exhausting, so I vow to post 50/50 negativity and appreciation.
But the negativity can be exhausting, so I vow to post 50/50 negativity and appreciation.
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