Dark Brotherhood - (mechanic - please fix)

Dhaylen

My assassin goes on their routine 'daily' quest...
* located in a self-contained dungeon, (i.e. no other players will ever randomly pop up),
… and is hit with NPC respawning.

The issue:
- I chose to take out each individual one by one, on my way to the main target.
After waiting for the guard to pass, one casualty down - excellent!
Now on to the other two - cant attack right away, as one will see - oops guard coming, go back down hill.

Ok, going back up, and - you guessed it, behind me - (wait, someone resurrected you bruh? lol!)
Spotted! There goes 1/5 'you have been seen'

*** On top of that... you do have the occasional, "Hey buddy, Im legit behind you, but you spun around and saw me while 'hidden blade' refused to come out - even though it was shown as available."
No problem, 2/5 spotted

Heck, by the time you are ready to leave, you may have 4/5, and you head back - just to have a timer.
We all love timers! (Assassins Creed, Lara Croft, etc.)
But this is insane, now I have to get past two guards, conveniently wondering in the right places that take up most of that time, while EVERY RESPAWN is now going at every inconvenient angle.
(I killed you off for a reason!)

So...
This is really annoying - Funny, you kill someone, and the guards have no idea someone invaded.
Maybe ZOS should fix this, and (as a special treat) add to the difficulty in a more realistic manner - (hide them bodies you kill)

I could play ESO more often than I do if the Assassins and Thieves Guild had a little more love and attention given to it.
Will a miracle happen, and someone from ZOS read this, pass it on, and a dev thinks, "dang, yeah - I totally get it..."
(Who knows... at least its out in the ether now.)

MerguezMan

ESO is clearly not the best stealth game.

That being said, hidden blade kills are not designed to prevent you from being spotted (I think it's a 15% chance at best)

You may have an easier time trying to go for "no kill & no spot" run, with invisibility potions.

Also, wearing the stealth-bonus sets and being a vampire helps a lot there.

daemonios

The timer in sacraments only starts after you kill your main mark, so if there were no respawns you could simply clear a place and walk to the exit without a care in the world after doing it. Instead, you need to plan. You can't count on a path being clear. Study patrolling guards' paths. Study the secret passages - there are many of them, and in some maps they're invaluable to getting to the exit within the two minutes after killing your mark. Use hiding spots. Get used to killing the odd NPC stealthily under pressure. The system has quirks, you'll fail unfairly sometimes, but I've done LOTS of sacraments with 0/5 detections. Practice makes perfect, and getting good at it beats getting another simple daily quest you do x times for the costume/achievement.

Dhaylen

MerguezMan wrote: »

That being said, hidden blade kills are not designed to prevent you from being spotted (I think it's a 15% chance at best)

You may have an easier time trying to go for "no kill & no spot" run, with invisibility potions.

.

Sorry, wasn't clear - the stealth blade is not when Im being spotted. (At least not the majority)
Most of it is a person literally, that I killed a moment before, respawning behind my back to 'see me'. lol!

I thought, maybe if I were faster - but it really is a matter of the guard making their roundabout between each kill that makes this not possible either.

Dhaylen

daemonios wrote: »

The timer in sacraments only starts after you kill your main mark, so if there were no respawns you could simply clear a place and walk to the exit without a care in the world after doing it. Instead, you need to plan. You can't count on a path being clear. Study patrolling guards' paths. Study the secret passages - there are many of them, and in some maps they're invaluable to getting to the exit within the two minutes after killing your mark. Use hiding spots. Get used to killing the odd NPC stealthily under pressure. The system has quirks, you'll fail unfairly sometimes, but I've done LOTS of sacraments with 0/5 detections. Practice makes perfect, and getting good at it beats getting another simple daily quest you do x times for the costume/achievement.

I hear you - but, it feels 'cheap' (on Zos' part) - especially role-playing wise.
As mentioned, to counter-act the place being cleared out - they could make it where the bodies have to be hidden.
(Right now, the irony is, the guard walks over a dead body and its all good! lol!)

After all that, if you are able to do that - sure, you deserve to walk out.
Again, I see that 'breaks' the time bit - but there should be a more feasible/realistic way to balance out this mechanic.

* The main issue is, how it currently is - this is more of a Thieves Guild Quest.
Why have the same mechanic for two Guilds - the super stealth makes perfect sense for the Thieves Guild.
But... Im an assassin - so, Im looking for something a bit different mechanically.

mague

Dhaylen wrote: »

* The main issue is, how it currently is - this is more of a Thieves Guild Quest.

The Thieves Guild dungeon mechanics are similar broken.

I would love this daily and ask for more if there was no initial timer. Sneak and steal should be based on patience and good sneak armor and not a basic timer.

daemonios

Dhaylen wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

The timer in sacraments only starts after you kill your main mark, so if there were no respawns you could simply clear a place and walk to the exit without a care in the world after doing it. Instead, you need to plan. You can't count on a path being clear. Study patrolling guards' paths. Study the secret passages - there are many of them, and in some maps they're invaluable to getting to the exit within the two minutes after killing your mark. Use hiding spots. Get used to killing the odd NPC stealthily under pressure. The system has quirks, you'll fail unfairly sometimes, but I've done LOTS of sacraments with 0/5 detections. Practice makes perfect, and getting good at it beats getting another simple daily quest you do x times for the costume/achievement.

I hear you - but, it feels 'cheap' (on Zos' part) - especially role-playing wise.
As mentioned, to counter-act the place being cleared out - they could make it where the bodies have to be hidden.
(Right now, the irony is, the guard walks over a dead body and its all good! lol!)

After all that, if you are able to do that - sure, you deserve to walk out.
Again, I see that 'breaks' the time bit - but there should be a more feasible/realistic way to balance out this mechanic.

* The main issue is, how it currently is - this is more of a Thieves Guild Quest.
Why have the same mechanic for two Guilds - the super stealth makes perfect sense for the Thieves Guild.
But... Im an assassin - so, Im looking for something a bit different mechanically.

Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are basically just shticks that give you a few dozen hours' worth of content. ZOS did attempt to integrate them with the game as a whole (remember having to sneak through several quests in Vvardenfell?) but they're pretty much self-contained. You play the minigames, do the achievements and forget they exist. Still, those are miles ahead of other shticks introduced in later upgrades. Vines that pull you onto ledges but mysteriously only exist in Murkmire? Grappling crossbows also limited to one zone, in a game that doesn't even have regular crossbows?

Dhaylen

daemonios wrote: »

Still, those are miles ahead of other shticks introduced in later upgrades. Vines that pull you onto ledges but mysteriously only exist in Murkmire? Grappling crossbows also limited to one zone, in a game that doesn't even have regular crossbows?

Yeah, I hear you - they are not too consistent with mechanics.
I agree with you about the Assassins/Thieves Guild being really good...
(mentioned in another post - wish they developed this more with the release of Morrwind and the Morag Tong - even if the two are 'different'... the Assassins bit could have been greatly expanded upon.)

sidenote:
(Need to play the murkmire DLC through - love the looks, never had the chance - and curious as to why we didn't get all of BlackMarsh)
Again, whatever mechanic are added - should have some consistency throughout the game.

Dhaylen

mague wrote: »

Dhaylen wrote: »

* The main issue is, how it currently is - this is more of a Thieves Guild Quest.

The Thieves Guild dungeon mechanics are similar broken.

I would love this daily and ask for more if there was no initial timer. Sneak and steal should be based on patience and good sneak armor and not a basic timer.

Thanks - haven't done Thieves Guild since Summerset or before.
But yes, they start you out on a timer with the Thieves quest... I agree, as a thief - should totally be about patience!

daemonios

Dhaylen wrote: »

mague wrote: »

Dhaylen wrote: »

* The main issue is, how it currently is - this is more of a Thieves Guild Quest.

The Thieves Guild dungeon mechanics are similar broken.

I would love this daily and ask for more if there was no initial timer. Sneak and steal should be based on patience and good sneak armor and not a basic timer.

Thanks - haven't done Thieves Guild since Summerset or before.
But yes, they start you out on a timer with the Thieves quest... I agree, as a thief - should totally be about patience!

The timer is a challenge. Make it out before it runs out and you get a bonus. Don't, and you can still complete the heist at your leisure.