Dawnguard inspired skill line.

JimFC67

I enjoyed the trailer for Greymoor and was excited by the prospect of going up against vampires, but then I remembered my main has been a vampire for four years!

Most of my characters are vampires for the recovery and some perks in the skill line. I also believe vampires and werewolves offer additional roll-playing depth to the game. However, I’ve been waiting for a skill line with similar in-game benefits without having to become either the living dead or a dog.

With an expansion that will focus on battling vampires, it makes no sense that a new skill line—like ‘Dawnguard’ or something—is not added. Offer the players another choice with comparative passives to the vampire skill line, and powerful/fun ultimate similar to transforming into a werewolf. For years, players who chose not to become a monster have lost out on skills, passive benefits, role-playing aspects, and game content. We need an option to remain a human and not become a monster for the sake of benefits embedded in a skill line.

Skwor

JimFC67 wrote: »

I enjoyed the trailer for Greymoor and was excited by the prospect of going up against vampires, but then I remembered my main has been a vampire for four years!

Most of my characters are vampires for the recovery and some perks in the skill line. I also believe vampires and werewolves offer additional roll-playing depth to the game. However, I’ve been waiting for a skill line with similar in-game benefits without having to become either the living dead or a dog.

With an expansion that will focus on battling vampires, it makes no sense that a new skill line—like ‘Dawnguard’ or something—is not added. Offer the players another choice with comparative passives to the vampire skill line, and powerful/fun ultimate similar to transforming into a werewolf. For years, players who chose not to become a monster have lost out on skills, passive benefits, role-playing aspects, and game content. We need an option to remain a human and not become a monster for the sake of benefits embedded in a skill line.

QFT we need an comparative alternative so everyone does not feel it is required to be a vampire OR we need a skill line that wrecks a vampire so we can have a Vampire Hunter class to offset what will likely be a very OP skill line in Vampires, the current Fighters Guild skill line IMO is not sufficient for this purpose.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

You are a hero of the forgotten. Thank you for representing us who seek to destroy the real monsters of Tamriel.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Several "Dawnguard" related skills are in the Fighter's Guild skilline.

Gnortranermara

Two things that absolutely need to happen to make this year shine:

Sun Damage
Dawnguard guild line (for uninfected only)

Noxavian

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Several "Dawnguard" related skills are in the Fighter's Guild skilline.

Nope, only 1. Which just mentions a dawnguard crossbow. There's enough room for dawnguard to have their own skill line, it worse comes to worse they can remove the crossbow bit from fighters guild.

I find it hard to believe ZOS couldn't make a new dawnguard/hunter group skill line that functions as the third world skill.

Noxavian

JimFC67 wrote: »

I enjoyed the trailer for Greymoor and was excited by the prospect of going up against vampires, but then I remembered my main has been a vampire for four years!

Most of my characters are vampires for the recovery and some perks in the skill line. I also believe vampires and werewolves offer additional roll-playing depth to the game. However, I’ve been waiting for a skill line with similar in-game benefits without having to become either the living dead or a dog.

With an expansion that will focus on battling vampires, it makes no sense that a new skill line—like ‘Dawnguard’ or something—is not added. Offer the players another choice with comparative passives to the vampire skill line, and powerful/fun ultimate similar to transforming into a werewolf. For years, players who chose not to become a monster have lost out on skills, passive benefits, role-playing aspects, and game content. We need an option to remain a human and not become a monster for the sake of benefits embedded in a skill line.

I agree with you completely OP. I find it a bit silly they didn't take this time to give us a third option, finally, for players who don't want to be a vamp or ww.

Not to mention the addition of a new world skill, especially a hunter group, would probably draw a good bit of popularity.

oxygen_thief

JimFC67 wrote: »

With an expansion that will focus on battling vampires, it makes no sense that a new skill line—like ‘Dawnguard’ or something—is not added.

the sense is obvious. implementation of a new combat skill line requires much more work for the same money.

Muizer

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Several "Dawnguard" related skills are in the Fighter's Guild skilline.

Hmm another one who hasn't checked the skill line since 2016?

ESO pays lip-service to us with the Fighter's guild skill line, but at the end of the day, it's entirely unspecific both in who can use them and who the target is. It is only marginally selective in the damage it does by means of a passive THAT IS ALL. There used to be a knock down effect against undead only for silver bolts, but that has been removed years ago.

So what is going on here? ZOS evidently had the idea of an undead hunter skill line, but why does it not follow through on it even when a blatant opportunity presents itself?

It's not as if players would have cause to begrudge a powerful vampire hunter skill line. Only place might be PvP, but let's face it, people there go where the meta is and by and large aren't hung up on role playing too much. Nobody in their right mind would go to Cyrodiil and complain they feel hard done by because they're a vampire and some people might have gimped (which it would be) their build to hit them harder.

TequilaFire

Yeah just restore the fighter's guild to do damage to vampire players the way it used to be before all the vamps cried nerf.

AlienSlof

JimFC67 wrote: »

I enjoyed the trailer for Greymoor and was excited by the prospect of going up against vampires, but then I remembered my main has been a vampire for four years!

Most of my characters are vampires for the recovery and some perks in the skill line. I also believe vampires and werewolves offer additional roll-playing depth to the game. However, I’ve been waiting for a skill line with similar in-game benefits without having to become either the living dead or a dog.

With an expansion that will focus on battling vampires, it makes no sense that a new skill line—like ‘Dawnguard’ or something—is not added. Offer the players another choice with comparative passives to the vampire skill line, and powerful/fun ultimate similar to transforming into a werewolf. For years, players who chose not to become a monster have lost out on skills, passive benefits, role-playing aspects, and game content. We need an option to remain a human and not become a monster for the sake of benefits embedded in a skill line.

Even though I mostly play vampires, I still agree wholeheartedly. More choices, more variety is the spice of life. In Skyrim I still had characters on both sides for variety.

j3crow

I agree. The Fighter's Guild skill line is not a good alternative, not to mention the fact that you can be a Vampire or WW and still use the skill line.

We need a skill line just for mortals, that excludes Vampire and WW, just as each of those exclude one another

Noxavian

j3crow wrote: »

I agree. The Fighter's Guild skill line is not a good alternative, not to mention the fact that you can be a Vampire or WW and still use the skill line.

We need a skill line just for mortals, that excludes Vampire and WW, just as each of those exclude one another

Agreed. The fact there is no mortal option for "factions" such as a vampire/witch/werwolf hunter group yet plays can be werewolf or vampire is bad. As a normal mortal player, there should be something I can join that is on-par with werewolf or vampire and excluded by those two.

j3crow

I could see a re-work to the existing Fighter's Guild skill line to coincide with the changes to Vampire in order to make it a more viable choice as mortal counter-play.

But the obvious problem would be the existing player builds that use the skill line as it is. Of course, the Vamp players are going to have that problem as well, anyway

StarOfElyon

I want a Dawngaurd skill line too. The Fighter's Guild line feels more like a stam-skill gap filler.

It doesn't have the identity of banishing evil, in my opinion. I play Magplar because I've always wanted to be that sort of "enemy of darkness". But Vampire's Bane has been nerfed into pointlessness. I want more HOLY FIRE dang it.

And I shake my head at all my Templar brethren who have betrayed the light and become vampires.

Nemesis7884

The issue is that they covered some aspects already with fighters guild...the whole combat the undead, even the crossobw... sunfire and the such is covered by templar...

But i'd love a dawnguard skill line.

Honestly i'd love if the q4 dlc was basically us - similar to dragonhold - founding the first iteration of the dawnguard to combat the vampire plot for "nightfall" whatever this is (creating a night forever maybe again).

And i want my dawnguard and vampire armor ^^

Daemonai

1+ for a Dawnguard skill line. Thematically, it's a great choice for this year's year-long-story content.

Becoming a vampire already seems mandatory because of how strong the abilities and passives are, and vampires look to be getting stronger in Greymoor.

Give players a reason to remain mortal and fight the creatures of the night.

Bradyfjord

I have a couple of vampires, but I don't consider them 'main characters'.

The benefits for not being a vamp/ww are not being vulnerable to fire, poison, or fighters guild skills.

Ysbriel

I don't want to nay say the idea but you can already be a "Downguard" with the templar skills plus the fighters guild crossbow. Templar already has skills that are both Sun Damage and Vampires bane as well. The only thing extra missing would be additional Dawnguard inspired sets, maybe one that gives you a 20% chance to set vampires on fire and one that calls in an armored troll to deal physical damage at the target,

mague

JimFC67 wrote: »

I’ve been waiting for a skill line with similar in-game benefits without having to become either the living dead or a dog.

I liked the werewolf for a while because i so wished my warden could shapeshift into a bear. Just bear, not werebear. But thats just for the records.

On topic: What the game lacks from release are passive werewolf and vampire passive skills. Skills you can use when you are not a vamp or dog.

j3crow

Ysbriel wrote: »

I don't want to nay say the idea but you can already be a "Downguard" with the templar skills plus the fighters guild crossbow. Templar already has skills that are both Sun Damage and Vampires bane as well. The only thing extra missing would be additional Dawnguard inspired sets, maybe one that gives you a 20% chance to set vampires on fire and one that calls in an armored troll to deal physical damage at the target,

Yeah, I sort of agree with you. Thematically the Templar wielding Fighter's Guild skills is Dawnguard-ish. But I still think it misses the mark as being a counter-choice for mortals, that is available to mortals only, specifically to counter the other two.

To fit the time-frame, they could even come up with a Resolute of Stendarr skill line. Granted, its a little redundant, given the Templar, but it wouldn't be the first time something was a little redundant thematically in-game

I got the impression, that they were leaning toward a possible formation of a similar organization to the Dawnguard with the "swordthane" aesthetic. If I remember my Dawnguard lore right, they were founded by a jarl to deal with his son's vampirism, and they evolved into vampire hunters from there

Maybe will see it emerge out of Q3 or Q4, the same way that the formation of the new Dragonguard, happened after the release of the first Elsweyr zone and the first part of the story line

ZoM_Head

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Several "Dawnguard" related skills are in the Fighter's Guild skilline.

They are all stamina based, so not efficient for magicka characters.

They are not THAT strong, with exception to ulti and burst.

The mages' Guild skill line is better suited for overall damage, burst, heal and sustain better than FG skills.

Even as a stamina character the skills are expensive.

Dawnguard in Skyrim had some nice weapons (2H hammer, Crossbows) as well as some very nice magicka skills specifically against undead and vampires, something similar that appeals to BOTH magicka and stamina characters should had been in the game since day 1 ESO in 2014.

Thevampirenight

Even if they were considering a Dawnguard Skill Line things they would have to factor in the lore of the Dawnguard of the second era. The impressions that Isran gave didn't give them a very good picture. There was a reason why the group was disbanded. They were more or less basically supposed to guard and jail one of the Riften Jarls kids. Had to kill him, and angered the Jarl enough to banish them.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dawnguard
The Dawnguard traces its origins in the early to mid Second Era. Fort Dawnguard was once a stronghold owned by the Jarl of Riften. The Jarl's son was an adventurer, which proved to be his demise as he had contracted Vampirism. When the Jarl of Riften first came upon the news, he was unable to have his son killed, and so he used his money to build Fort Dawnguard as a prison to hold his son. The hired men that guarded the prison would become the early Dawnguard. The Dawnguard was eventually forced to put him down, which led to the group's banishment from the Rift, but stuck to their cause of vampire hunting.[1] The group would start to use Crossbows with Silver bolts. A weapon that would later be used by the Fighters Guild during the Interregnum.[2] The group would eventually dissolve and fall into obscurity. A rumor was that the group had all contracted vampirism and stalked the Rift until they were all defeated.

Well given the amount of time the true reason for why they were disbanded might have been just a guess but I think there might have been enough history about the Dawnguard to know what their original purpose was in the Rift. I'm taking a guess that their vampire hunting abilties might have been more of a hobby or a for hire deal. Reason is they were a group hired by the Jarl and likely payed lots of gold to do what they do. So I would think of them of them as say more in about the power and gold and more like glorified Jail Wardens then they were actually vampire hunters. Maybe their is remnants of them we could meet but even if they added in the group they wouldn't be the Dawnguard players fell in love with in the Elder Scrolls 5. They could even possibly be more like the Silver Hand during this time period.

FIghers Guild/Templar class could be used to make a Dawnguard build and its possible they could even add in a Dawnguard Motif. So that might be why they are not doing it. If the demand for it is enough they could do a Dawnguard Motif.

Maybe it is possible the Dawnguard ended up becoming vampires themselves or disbanded because they were basically kicked out of the Rift for killing their charge. So I doubt they would be welcome in the Rift anyways. Without a base of operations they would at best would be a small rag team operation of Vampire Hunters then an Elite force of Vampire Hunters and clearly not enough to stop any of the Vampiric Threats in the Region of Skyrim.

wolfbone

that would be really cool, I could make a vmapire who only feeds on the ones whot ruly deserve to die, so he's kind of like a vigilantee.

they shall call him.... shadow wolf

wolfbone

they do, my wood elf night blade is a werewolf, and devoted follower of hircine. because why would a wood elf follow the hunt master?

Muizer

Ysbriel wrote: »

I don't want to nay say the idea but you can already be a "Downguard" with the templar skills plus the fighters guild crossbow. Templar already has skills that are both Sun Damage and Vampires bane as well. The only thing extra missing would be additional Dawnguard inspired sets, maybe one that gives you a 20% chance to set vampires on fire and one that calls in an armored troll to deal physical damage at the target,

These are the crossbow morphs. Pray tell us what, apart from the words, makes this a vampire hunter tool?

It can be used by anyone, on anyone. The only selective bit is in a 20% more damage to undead passive. That's not worth slotting this for IMHO.

There should be a much bigger trade off, in that it should be potentially lethal to vamipres but do no appreciable damage to the living.

Bradyfjord

Muizer wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

I don't want to nay say the idea but you can already be a "Downguard" with the templar skills plus the fighters guild crossbow. Templar already has skills that are both Sun Damage and Vampires bane as well. The only thing extra missing would be additional Dawnguard inspired sets, maybe one that gives you a 20% chance to set vampires on fire and one that calls in an armored troll to deal physical damage at the target,

These are the crossbow morphs. Pray tell us what, apart from the words, makes this a vampire hunter tool?

It can be used by anyone, on anyone. The only selective bit is in a 20% more damage to undead passive. That's not worth slotting this for IMHO.

There should be a much bigger trade off, in that it should be potentially lethal to vamipres but do no appreciable damage to the living.

I believe originally the Dawnguard Crossbow ability did do a knockdown vs. unholies (daedra/vamp/ww). I guess it was nerfed out somewhere along the way. It really has never been a good ability.

Skwor

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

I don't want to nay say the idea but you can already be a "Downguard" with the templar skills plus the fighters guild crossbow. Templar already has skills that are both Sun Damage and Vampires bane as well. The only thing extra missing would be additional Dawnguard inspired sets, maybe one that gives you a 20% chance to set vampires on fire and one that calls in an armored troll to deal physical damage at the target,

These are the crossbow morphs. Pray tell us what, apart from the words, makes this a vampire hunter tool?

It can be used by anyone, on anyone. The only selective bit is in a 20% more damage to undead passive. That's not worth slotting this for IMHO.

There should be a much bigger trade off, in that it should be potentially lethal to vamipres but do no appreciable damage to the living.

I believe originally the Dawnguard Crossbow ability did do a knockdown vs. unholies (daedra/vamp/ww). I guess it was nerfed out somewhere along the way. It really has never been a good ability.

Part of this thread makes that point. The Dawnguard element was nerfed out hard from the Fighter line. There is no effective Vamp/WW/Undead counter in this game and we appear to be headed to an even more OP vampire class. This really needs evened up.

As far as Templars maybe that could work but then the skills needed a little something added so they are specific and a little more dangerous to Vamp/WW/Undead, as it stands now the Templar skills are in pretty much the same spot as the Fighter skills where Vamp/WW/Undead are concerned.

Ysbriel

Muizer wrote: »

Ysbriel wrote: »

I don't want to nay say the idea but you can already be a "Downguard" with the templar skills plus the fighters guild crossbow. Templar already has skills that are both Sun Damage and Vampires bane as well. The only thing extra missing would be additional Dawnguard inspired sets, maybe one that gives you a 20% chance to set vampires on fire and one that calls in an armored troll to deal physical damage at the target,

These are the crossbow morphs. Pray tell us what, apart from the words, makes this a vampire hunter tool?

It can be used by anyone, on anyone. The only selective bit is in a 20% more damage to undead passive. That's not worth slotting this for IMHO.

There should be a much bigger trade off, in that it should be potentially lethal to vamipres but do no appreciable damage to the living.

For me it and many others by even reading my death recap Silver Shards works like a charm, and yes you have to take in account the 20% damage the skill tracker gives, plus the Slayer 3% extra if that is the only FG skill you have in the bar, if you built your character right 23% damage plus a stun (if silver leash) and the deliver an execution sounds about right.

Muizer

Slayer is not undead specific, nor is anything in either silver bolts morphs.

As for your death recap story, that's just anecdotal. Am I to take your word for it and if so on what grounds? If you want to go that way, prove that it occurs in vampire death recaps much more often than in mortal death recaps.

There's an alternative for frequent appearances in your death recap that points to the opposite of it working fine: that players don't consider it much of a loss in damage done when they fire it at a mortal, or that it's slotted purely for the gap closing and snare which works on everyone

Bradyfjord wrote: »

I believe originally the Dawnguard Crossbow ability did do a knockdown vs. unholies (daedra/vamp/ww). I guess it was nerfed out somewhere along the way. It really has never been a good ability.

Looked it up. Was 2016 apparently. In any case, strong or not, that was a good example of a trade off: Knock down was quite powerful, but only if aimed at daedra and undead. If you hit a mortal the whole effect was gone. IMHO that's how it should be. Instead they all but removed any trade off. The extra damageagainst undead now being no more than a nice bonus while you shoot it at everything that moves.