Next patch could Bosmers get a proper passive instead of Hunter's Eye?

TheGreatBlackBear

What can I say that hasn't been said before? Stealth detection is useless in pve and rolling for additional penetration is an inefficient use of stamina.

Also since most of the changes to combat, sets passives and whatnot seem to be spurred by reducing server load, think of how much load it will reduce of bosmers weren't rolling around like they just took some bad acid.

MajBludd

I agree, it's a silly passive. Imagine having to roll dodge everytime before lining up burst to get the most out of your passives.

As far as what to replace it with, I'm not entirely sure.

Cundu_Ertur

Bosmer (and Argonian, who also have valid complaints) players remain bitter over this. It has not gone and will not go away. It is past time for ZOS to acknowledge their errors and correct them.

L_Nici

I have to disagree with the rolling, its an amazing thing for PvP, but that sneak detect really is useless.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

MajBludd wrote: »

I agree, it's a silly passive. Imagine having to roll dodge everytime before lining up burst to get the most out of your passives.

As far as what to replace it with, I'm not entirely sure.

Just replace stealth detection with crit chance or crit bonus damage. Their ‘hunter eye’ let’s them know the targets weak spot.

snoozy

agree.

*cries in bosmer*

MartiniDaniels

I play mostly as bosmer and I disagree, new bosmer is much better then old one. I'll support change of penetration to permanent one and replacing stealth detection with lore-friendly stealth radius, but speed on roll-dodge alone makes this passive worth it.

MartiniDaniels

You all forgot what bosmer was before... stamina recovery % instead of plain one, which pays off only if ton of stamrecovery is stacked.. very small bonus to stamina... and stealth passives which are useless in PVE group content and in PVP useful only for ganking...

max_only

Yes, we’ve tried this experiment long enough.lets go back to 25 years of lore precedent.

TheGreatBlackBear

I think Hunter's Eye could give something like an unconditional 1500 pen. And an unconditional speed bonus when you are on bow bar.

max_only

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I play mostly as bosmer and I disagree, new bosmer is much better then old one. I'll support change of penetration to permanent one and replacing stealth detection with lore-friendly stealth radius, but speed on roll-dodge alone makes this passive worth it.

You disagree but you type the exact changes we want... sounds like you agree.

Cundu_Ertur

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You all forgot what bosmer was before... stamina recovery % instead of plain one, which pays off only if ton of stamrecovery is stacked.. very small bonus to stamina... and stealth passives which are useless in PVE group content and in PVP useful only for ganking...

Actually, since the topic of the post is specifically about hunter's eye alone, most of what you say is moot. I remember you from the other threads, and your earlier post in this thread, which make it clear that you already agree with the issues with the hunter's eye passive. I agree with what you say in your other post here, for the most part (I like stealthing through group dungeons when I solo them, so I argue against the useless nature of stealth in engame PVE); so far as what you think the passive should be, I agree 100%. It if was what you describe there'd be no issue.

I'm the only goofball whose adding other issues, namely the poor Argonians.

In any case for Bosmer and Argonians, no-one is calling for the whole-sale redesign of everything; rather just for some tweaking to bring things into alignment with other passives and lore. Not the sledgehammer, but one of those tiny archeologist hammers. The problem is, I don't think ESO has ever heard of such a thing.

Aliyavana

L_Nici wrote: »

I have to disagree with the rolling, its an amazing thing for PvP, but that sneak detect really is useless.

the speed buff is fine, but the penetration it gives should be constant

Ratzkifal

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

I agree, it's a silly passive. Imagine having to roll dodge everytime before lining up burst to get the most out of your passives.

As far as what to replace it with, I'm not entirely sure.

Just replace stealth detection with crit chance or crit bonus damage. Their ‘hunter eye’ let’s them know the targets weak spot.

That would mess up the combat balance quite a bit and is a lot more effort on the Devs. The simplest solution would be to remove the detection and give back the stealth they always used to have (and rightfully so) and untangle the dodgeroll passive, making the penetration permanent at a reduced value while keeping the movement speed after dodgeroll the way it is now.

Boom, functional passive that's actually useful and meaningful as well as consistent with lore.

max_only

Hey maybe Bosmer’s stealth detection will come in handy with antiquities.

anadandy

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Bosmer (and Argonian, who also have valid complaints) players remain bitter over this. It has not gone and will not go away. It is past time for ZOS to acknowledge their errors and correct them.

Bitter forever. And almost a year later - still no sign of the supposed new stealth options that were supposed to make up for Bosmer loss (not that it would have made me happy).

NotaDaedraWorshipper

max_only wrote: »

Hey maybe Bosmer’s stealth detection will come in handy with antiquities.

Maybe they will be able to spot all those secrets better than others with their superior eyesight!

Ratzkifal

They can probably detect enemies better in the caves of the Dark Heart of Skyrim. I heard we would be getting 40% underground content. Everyone knows Darkvision has always been a Bosmer thing.

KMarble

anadandy wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Bosmer (and Argonian, who also have valid complaints) players remain bitter over this. It has not gone and will not go away. It is past time for ZOS to acknowledge their errors and correct them.

Bitter forever. And almost a year later - still no sign of the supposed new stealth options that were supposed to make up for Bosmer loss (not that it would have made me happy).

It's called Darloc Brae, an overland set that gives any race (as they said it would) a stealth bonus of 2% IIRC. I left the discussion about Bosmers' loss of stealth around the time this set was announced as I knew that was all we were ever going to get.

Anotherone773

i agree it is ridiculous. Bosmer were fine as they were. Stop fixing things that arent broken and fix things that are.

Jaraal

Ratzkifal wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

I agree, it's a silly passive. Imagine having to roll dodge everytime before lining up burst to get the most out of your passives.

As far as what to replace it with, I'm not entirely sure.

Just replace stealth detection with crit chance or crit bonus damage. Their ‘hunter eye’ let’s them know the targets weak spot.

That would mess up the combat balance quite a bit and is a lot more effort on the Devs. The simplest solution would be to remove the detection and give back the stealth they always used to have (and rightfully so) and untangle the dodgeroll passive, making the penetration permanent at a reduced value while keeping the movement speed after dodgeroll the way it is now.

Boom, functional passive that's actually useful and meaningful as well as consistent with lore.

This.

Even if they restore the rightful Bosmer stealth, we will still be weaker than before the racial "balancing", because the 10% bonus damage from steath we had before will still be gone. That was their biggest beef with the old passives, they removed it from both Bosmer and Khajiit, and gave Bosmer the situational and undesirable (because most Bosmer players don't PvP, nor do any NPCs use stealth for us to detect) portion of the Hunter's Eye passive.

Nobody is asking for the roll activated speed and penetration to go away. All we want is the niche and detrimental stealth detection to be replaced with the lore friendly stealth we envoyed for years before. Granted, having to burn stamina to activate your racial passive (roll dodging) is counter productive, as you could just mash the sprint button and use the same or less amount of stamina to go further faster... but we won't argue that point. And activated (over)penetration is usually wasted because most good PvPers are already at or near the pen cap.... but we won't argue that either.

Just make us stealthy again!

MajBludd

Well, ok. I'll eat crow for my statement about the pen passive. It does seem to work for those playing bosmer in pvp.

LukosCreyden

Bosmer is still a fantastic race, one of the best imo. That stealth detect passive is really... not good, though. I get the theme, the whole "keen-eyed hunter" thing, but stealth detection? That is not very useful at all. Even in PvP, if truth be told.

MartiniDaniels

max_only wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I play mostly as bosmer and I disagree, new bosmer is much better then old one. I'll support change of penetration to permanent one and replacing stealth detection with lore-friendly stealth radius, but speed on roll-dodge alone makes this passive worth it.

You disagree but you type the exact changes we want... sounds like you agree.

I agree and like Cundu Ertur said, I always agreed about uselessness of stealth detection and that roll-dodge penetration bonus is bad for PVE and better to reduce it a bit and make permanent, like 1k passive penetration. I actually actively tried to use that roll-dodge thing together with senche's bite set (before "re-balance" of that set). I completed VMA dozens of times in Senche I used it in PVP for my high WD DK hybrid too... not very powerful build, but viable and fun.

But I disagree that bosmer became worse with racial changes.. really, before this changes bosmer was exclusively RP/hardcore choice for PVE and for PVP it was best for ganking, but let's be honest nobody likes gankers with exception of funny gank videos. Now bosmer is much more versatile for any stam role then before. Even for tanking. Permablock or not, extra speed, high stamina and stamrecovery are good.

MartiniDaniels

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Bosmer is still a fantastic race, one of the best imo. That stealth detect passive is really... not good, though. I get the theme, the whole "keen-eyed hunter" thing, but stealth detection? That is not very useful at all. Even in PvP, if truth be told.

There is bug in this patch which allows hunter's eye to break cloak in point blank range, effectively detecting NB while NB is "casting" incap Not officially confirmed, but from what I see it really happens pretty often.

CassandraGemini

I will always agree wholeheartedly when it comes to getting rid of Hunter's Eye or changing it into something that doesn't break the lore and is actually useful! The other two passives are great, no need to touch them, but please, ZOS, give us Bosmers a third passive that I will actually want to spend three skill points on again!

Cundu_Ertur

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I play mostly as bosmer and I disagree, new bosmer is much better then old one. I'll support change of penetration to permanent one and replacing stealth detection with lore-friendly stealth radius, but speed on roll-dodge alone makes this passive worth it.

You disagree but you type the exact changes we want... sounds like you agree.

I agree and like Cundu Ertur said, I always agreed about uselessness of stealth detection and that roll-dodge penetration bonus is bad for PVE and better to reduce it a bit and make permanent, like 1k passive penetration. I actually actively tried to use that roll-dodge thing together with senche's bite set (before "re-balance" of that set). I completed VMA dozens of times in Senche I used it in PVP for my high WD DK hybrid too... not very powerful build, but viable and fun.

But I disagree that bosmer became worse with racial changes.. really, before this changes bosmer was exclusively RP/hardcore choice for PVE and for PVP it was best for ganking, but let's be honest nobody likes gankers with exception of funny gank videos. Now bosmer is much more versatile for any stam role then before. Even for tanking. Permablock or not, extra speed, high stamina and stamrecovery are good.

I think we all agree that the stamina pool change was a straight up buff, the regen was maybe a nerf only if you overspecced into regen but mostly a buff or a wash, and the loss of disease resistance was a wash (since we picked up immunity to the poisoned effect). The only real issue is with hunter's eye, which is the subject of the thread. Which is where, unsurprisingly, we all agree again for the most part.

So let us agree to agree on this.

edit to add: and let's not forget our Argonian friends, who also suffer.

anadandy

KMarble wrote: »

It's called Darloc Brae, an overland set that gives any race (as they said it would) a stealth bonus of 2% IIRC. I left the discussion about Bosmers' loss of stealth around the time this set was announced as I knew that was all we were ever going to get.

Exactly this. I admit I was being deliberately obtuse and bitter. The one and only comment we ever got about the loss of Bosmer stealth and it was crap.

TheGreatBlackBear

A passive related to consumables could be interesting. So perhaps a decrease or removal of negative effects from potions. So if you drank a lot that gave you major brutality but also inflicted major fracture perhaps the bosmer passive could either reduce the duration of the fracture, or prevent it from happening in the first place.

Tommy_The_Gun

One could only hope that those 2 races (Bosmer & Argonian) would see some improvements on PTS. They are the only 2 races that people seem to point out are underperforming and do not meet the original racial rebalance goals:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

1.Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.
2. Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.
3. Retain and enhance the unique feeling and gameplay patterns that each race allows.
4. Improve the sense of progression that the racial passives provide when leveling up.
5. Achieve the above goals while still obeying our rich and structured lore and storytelling.

Jenzi

This is the ONE thing more than anything else in the game that has really annoyed me. There was no reason for it, it completely breaks the long established ESO lore, and the community has complained non stop about it ever since it was done, and yet ZOS still haven’t admitted their mistake and reverted it.