Solved: No this is not a nerf thread - I want to discuss and I really want to L2P

Zabagad

Edit: I have all the input I needed - this thread can go to sleep now TY all for the input - no more necessary!




Disclaimer: I hate nerf requests and I don't want to ask for a nerf here!
I'm for sure not a good player (and I will never be one of them) but I found a very nice setup which is 100% unique AND most important gives me so much fun and success to a degree I was never expecting.

But, I have 2 Skills where I most struggle with and I want to learn how I handle these two skills better (or best).

1) Fossilize
This is for sure a L2P for me and I want to know if I do it right or wrong, because I almost always die if I'm fossilized.
I try to break free and the dodge roll. Is that right or wrong?
Is there any gcd or so between break free and dodge?
Because I have the feeling it is never really working and then I press my buttons like bf bf dr dr bf like a monkey - most of the time I die or I have no stam left and die then

So - just to get sure - I'm fine with Fossilize!
I can avoid it most of the time, but if somebody surprises me then I at least want to press the right buttons in the right order and with the right time between (not to long and not to fast to accepted)

2) Spell Wall
Here I don't want to ask for a nerf either - but I'm interested what you think about that Ulti.
Is the 7s compared to the Ulti amount (135) ok for you?
Because I have the feeling that an opponent who is using Spell Wall has it up really often and there is not much time for me in between.
So I think it's a bit OP - but not sure about that.
I can live with it how it is and do what I do so far - I will leave (if I can) or HA them until Spell Wall is down, if I have people around and I'm not in danger.

L2P part:
So far I'm still not 100% sure which Skills I can use when Spell Wall is up.
I guess my build (and I dont wanna change it soon) let me only the option to HA them with my healing staff which means I'm out for 7s and only on defence.
So just to get sure - Forse Pulse is count as a projectile or is Force Pulse an option against Spell Wall?
I'm sure about all my other skills and I don't need other examples (thanks to @Joy_Division) - just Force Pulse please

ChunkyCat

Best way to L2P is to get off the forums and go play.

Zabagad

Ok - I found some wrong spellings, but I'm not able to edit my post - this was my first thread and I didn't know edit is only possible on answers

yodased

Fossilized means your are double cc. So you have to break free of the hard cc, bur you are then immobilized from it. So you can cast retreating maneuvers or wait .8seconds and then dodge. Its buggy when you have two ccs on you so giving it a gcd cycle between break and roll is your best bet. Immovable pots are your best friend against a dk

Spell wall just kite them from range until it's up. They usually won't use it offensively so when you pressure them to burn an ult on spellwall treat it like a reset and get your resources back as well. Its going to be diffficult to get through that magic ranged so understand it's basically a hard counter to your build and adjust.

Seems like you are always looking to be on the offensive and push the opponent and have a difficult time with defensive based players. Woth these guys either dont engage or learn to wait for them to drop defense and make a mistake by over extending.

Zabagad

yodased wrote: »

Fossilized means your are double cc. So you have to break free of the hard cc, bur you are then immobilized from it. So you can cast retreating maneuvers or wait .8seconds and then dodge. Its buggy when you have two ccs on you so giving it a gcd cycle between break and roll is your best bet. Immovable pots are your best friend against a dk

Spell wall just kite them from range until it's up. They usually won't use it offensively so when you pressure them to burn an ult on spellwall treat it like a reset and get your resources back as well. Its going to be diffficult to get through that magic ranged so understand it's basically a hard counter to your build and adjust.

Seems like you are always looking to be on the offensive and push the opponent and have a difficult time with defensive based players. Woth these guys either dont engage or learn to wait for them to drop defense and make a mistake by over extending.

Ty very much - that 0.8s was exactly what I guessed - I try it to quick.
If I see a dk coming, I'm (almost) fine - but first I dont see quick enough the class and mostly they hit me from the back or so. Otherwise I use the pot or keep distance.

Spell wall means they recover then in that 7s and when I (we) have them again in a bad situation, they have Spell wall again ready so I (we) don't get them down at all.
And there is one I have in mind who uses that against me before or during he is attacking - and I think thats a good way against my build.

Your 3rd sentence makes no sense for me (they use Fossilze always offensive and Spell Wall maybe 50-50), and I only descibe two skills where I have problems with and not the whole story around - but never mind and ty again

Sanguinor2

Force pulse is no projectile and doesnt get reflected by spell wall (atleast it shouldnt be). It still wont hit hard because it doesnt go through block.

Zabagad

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Force pulse is no projectile and doesnt get reflected by spell wall (atleast it shouldnt be). It still wont hit hard because it doesnt go through block.

Ty - thats what I guessed and hoped because I didn't realized any damage on myself when I used it - but I'm not at the point where I can pay attention to everything and so I wasn't sure.

Iskiab

I deal with them (and onslaught) in the same way. Mist form and kite.

Break free and a dodge roll costs too much stamina if you’re mag. Break free and then mist will get you out of there, because if the DK is any good they’ll be fossilizing only when they’ve set you up for their burst.

Nestor

Zabagad wrote: »

Ok - I found some wrong spellings, but I'm not able to edit my post - this was my first thread and I didn't know edit is only possible on answers

You edit the first post, and title, by looking for the Gear Icon near the title of the thread. All other posts the Gear icon is in the upper right corner of the post.

Zabagad

Nestor wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Ok - I found some wrong spellings, but I'm not able to edit my post - this was my first thread and I didn't know edit is only possible on answers

You edit the first post, and title, by looking for the Gear Icon near the title of the thread. All other posts the Gear icon is in the upper right corner of the post.

TY - nice

@Iskiab - ty for your input. I have no Mistform and no space for another skill - but anyway I learned now that I could
break free - followed by RAT/Mistform/Shadow Image/Streak etc. instead of dodge roll.
I assume that all skills need a 0.8-1.0s gap after the break free...?

So - if there is more input coming I take it, but if nobody wants to claim that something written is/was false, I learned enough and now I can try that in the field.

Ty all - that was nice and quick!

Iskiab

Zabagad wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Ok - I found some wrong spellings, but I'm not able to edit my post - this was my first thread and I didn't know edit is only possible on answers

You edit the first post, and title, by looking for the Gear Icon near the title of the thread. All other posts the Gear icon is in the upper right corner of the post.

TY - nice

@Iskiab - ty for your input. I have no Mistform and no space for another skill - but anyway I learned now that I could
break free - followed by RAT/Mistform/Shadow Image/Streak etc. instead of dodge roll.
I assume that all skills need a 0.8-1.0s gap after the break free...?

So - if there is more input coming I take it, but if nobody wants to claim that something written is/was false, I learned enough and now I can try that in the field.

Ty all - that was nice and quick!

Np, if you have streak then use it for sure. RAT doesn’t work well unless you try to block the damage, but it’s not a good idea vs a DK. IDK if streak breaks immobilizations?

The damage will be coming in fast so break free - rat - x is too many GCDs unless you’re really tanky to survive. That’s why magblades usually die to that combo imo.

If they’ve fossilized you’ve been setup to be bursted, get out of there imo and be ready for a follow up leap so it’s going to take streak x2, maybe hold block after the first streak.

phoenixkungfu

The main issue with fossilize is its 7m. So keep away game is a must. Try to kite and make them come to you. its hard to keep 7m out. But that's the best game plan. Maximize distance its honestly the only way.

Joy_Division

Fossilize is strong, though I found more dangerous with the original Flame Lash mechanic. I'm almost positive Break Free interacts with GCDs (because of the old Eclipse skill).

The stun isn't a big deal. I think it's natural to dodge away, but I think there are times that's too passive and reeks a bit of desperation. If it's just the DK and you're not getting mobbed by a bunch of Xv1ers you could just stand there and fight. A DK could fossilize back, a templar could renew their ritual then (that was how I used it in my rotation fighting a DK), a sorc could use that opportunity to restack their shields, a Necro could say, "OK I'll fight here, have a boneyard." Because most of ESO's skills do not require you to be facing an opponent (big exception is Jabs), you can still fight effectively even when immobilized. What makes Fossilize most dangerous is when it's used by an Xv1ing DK, because that's the time you're going to want to LOS. At that point, well rounded builds should run some sort of snare/immobilization immunity so if it was not already up, after CC break is probably a good time to refresh that buff.

I suspect most of the time you're not doing anything "wrong," it's the Xv1 nature of the skill that is hard to deal with a lot of opponents.

You use "B" to break free? I used to bind it to a single key, but I've found binding it to mouse up (or down, depending on preference) is faster. Give it a try

Spell Wall, treat the same way as a DK with Corrosive, a Templar with Healing Ritual, or a Necro with Goliath: basically /sitchair until the ultimate falls off (though the DK you need to kite because Corrosive will kill you, but you get the point).

I don't have an issue with Spellwall because it isn't dangerous to me and thus opponents are usually just delaying their death. If you're not able to kill them in-between ultis, odds are it's because the player is just running a low damage "I don't want to die" build, which is the sort of personality that would slot this ulitmate in the first place. So, not a L2P issue, rather a learn when not to waste your time issue.

Xvorg

What mDKs hate the most are roots. So if you find a mDK that uses foss on you, and you have access to a root, just root him/her after breaking free. After that, if you have a stun available, just stun him (make sure your root has ended). Part of his/her stamina will be used and he will have less marging to block.

Don't forget to count to six after you broke free. At six he will likely foss you again. Just rinse and repeat

angelofdeath333

Dont panic when youre fossilized, No point spamming dodge-roll like a maniac. Break free and pay attention to whats happening around you and your healthbar. Are you Close to execute? Have you been hit by a big combo? Blockcast a heal before you roll if thats the case, go through a quick defensive rotation so you dont insta-melt when youre back on your feet. You can also use some kind of snare removal (mistform, RAT,shuffle,FM etc) to get out!

Kadoin

It's almost always better to break free from fossilize and then simply block. Roll becomes unreliable the more lag the server experiences (or you) where block does not, and block always has the added bonus of allowing you to still cast skills without delay.

Only bother rolling from the immobolize if you have an HoT on. Otherwise its better IMO to block after breaking free and heal and/or CC back.

CompM4s

With fossilize break free then use a soft cc immunity skill instead of dodgerolling. Cc break and roll drains to much stam. Spell wall heavy attack and get resource back. Make sure its a channel or melee

NBrookus

I want to strongly recommend binding your break free to something other than LMB-RMB combo. It's a ton easier. I used to use 6, now I use a foot pedal, but you can also use a mouse button or whatever works for you.

When fossilized, CC break, then use any root removal skill or ability. "No stam left" sounds like you are a magicka toon. You need at least enough stam to CC break every 6 seconds plus a dodge or two in there, or you will die. Roughly speaking, 15k+. Stamina management is not optional for mag toons.

Force Pulse is not reflectible.

You sound like a magsorc or magblade. Magsorc is very strong and versatile, but magblade is pvp hard mode if solo. Magblade bomber builds are essential in organized groups, however, so if you are maining a magblade you may want to look for friends.

Zabagad

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fossilize is strong, though I found more dangerous with the original Flame Lash mechanic. I'm almost positive Break Free interacts with GCDs (because of the old Eclipse skill).

The stun isn't a big deal. I think it's natural to dodge away, but I think there are times that's too passive and reeks a bit of desperation. If it's just the DK and you're not getting mobbed by a bunch of Xv1ers you could just stand there and fight. A DK could fossilize back, a templar could renew their ritual then (that was how I used it in my rotation fighting a DK), a sorc could use that opportunity to restack their shields, a Necro could say, "OK I'll fight here, have a boneyard." Because most of ESO's skills do not require you to be facing an opponent (big exception is Jabs), you can still fight effectively even when immobilized. What makes Fossilize most dangerous is when it's used by an Xv1ing DK, because that's the time you're going to want to LOS. At that point, well rounded builds should run some sort of snare/immobilization immunity so if it was not already up, after CC break is probably a good time to refresh that buff.

I suspect most of the time you're not doing anything "wrong," it's the Xv1 nature of the skill that is hard to deal with a lot of opponents.

You use "B" to break free? I used to bind it to a single key, but I've found binding it to mouse up (or down, depending on preference) is faster. Give it a try

Spell Wall, treat the same way as a DK with Corrosive, a Templar with Healing Ritual, or a Necro with Goliath: basically /sitchair until the ultimate falls off (though the DK you need to kite because Corrosive will kill you, but you get the point).

I don't have an issue with Spellwall because it isn't dangerous to me and thus opponents are usually just delaying their death. If you're not able to kill them in-between ultis, odds are it's because the player is just running a low damage "I don't want to die" build, which is the sort of personality that would slot this ulitmate in the first place. So, not a L2P issue, rather a learn when not to waste your time issue.

Even if you didn't quote me - I assume you speak to me
And even I was already done with that thread (specially with comments from people who were not reading my previous posts (or not good enough) - but so I have to answer your (again) usefull input.

Just to make it (to late) clear - I only had these problems with fossilize because there were 5+ others who are there - so yes it was Xvs1 (1 only in that second - in real it was XvsY).
(I only had one situation I can remember where I was in a 1vs1 situation and was hit by fossilize in all the other 20+ situations I was against a group)
In addition - the problem is that I have not much time in these situations and I tried to press all (to) fast and maybe was on GCD or the first break free wasnt accepted/recognised from the server.
So I was not sure if I even try the right counters - now I know that I have not a general understanding problem.

TY for the tip - but I have "break free" on my mouse since a long time already (but not on the mousewheel as I need more time to use that - but I guess this is too individual for a global "best to")

Spell Wall - my problem was almost always vs very strong player and the problem is for sure part of my build, as I have almost only projectile skills - but again I have no problem with it - Its ok when I cannot fight every fight...

To your list:
Corrosive: Costs 200 - haven't seen it often - is never casted in a "feels like spamable way".
Healing Ritual (not sure you mean Rite of Passage instead?): only 1sec and I can still attack - so makes no sence for me to compare.
Rite of Passage (just to get sure): I can still attack without hurting myself (even I would waste resources) and more important the caster cannot attack on his own like with the Spell Wall.
Goliath: I never had a situation with Goliath so far, but if I think about it, it looks like a mix of the other two, but the biggest differnce: 250 Ulti so after the 20s are done, there will be a much longer time before it will cast again.

So these moments against "very strong player" which can still attack me, and I can only go in a defensive mode stands unique for me in my view. Specially for my build - on a stam or as a templar I would not even think about

So again ty @Joy_Division - always appreciate your input!

Zabagad

Xvorg wrote: »

What mDKs hate the most are roots. So if you find a mDK that uses foss on you, and you have access to a root, just root him/her after breaking free. After that, if you have a stun available, just stun him (make sure your root has ended). Part of his/her stamina will be used and he will have less marging to block.

Don't forget to count to six after you broke free. At six he will likely foss you again. Just rinse and repeat

Ty for you advice - I don't had much 1vs1 situation (only one) and I guess this strategy is to much above my level
So if I have the next 1vs1 I will maybe read it afterwards again - but I guess I have no root skill anyway. But this may change since then.

Zabagad

Kadoin wrote: »

It's almost always better to break free from fossilize and then simply block. Roll becomes unreliable the more lag the server experiences (or you) where block does not, and block always has the added bonus of allowing you to still cast skills without delay.

Only bother rolling from the immobolize if you have an HoT on. Otherwise its better IMO to block after breaking free and heal and/or CC back.

Ty - that was exactly my internal plan for the next situations - just hit "break free" (quickly twice to have a better chance that one is accepted) then go in block and (because mostly I get a lot of damage then) use a potion or my ulti or both but still press block. (I cannot blockheal without my ulti @angelofdeath333)

Zabagad

NBrookus wrote: »

I want to strongly recommend binding your break free to something other than LMB-RMB combo. It's a ton easier. I used to use 6, now I use a foot pedal, but you can also use a mouse button or whatever works for you.

When fossilized, CC break, then use any root removal skill or ability. "No stam left" sounds like you are a magicka toon. You need at least enough stam to CC break every 6 seconds plus a dodge or two in there, or you will die. Roughly speaking, 15k+. Stamina management is not optional for mag toons.

Force Pulse is not reflectible.

You sound like a magsorc or magblade. Magsorc is very strong and versatile, but magblade is pvp hard mode if solo. Magblade bomber builds are essential in organized groups, however, so if you are maining a magblade you may want to look for friends.

My keyboard and mouse settings are 99% different then the default

But why I answer is your foot pedal - that's a nice idea.
I guess I have (had?) one with a steering wheel - I have to check that - it would be nice If I can use that with eso.
Ty for that

No stam left: I have enough stam - specially for a mag char But sometimes you run out of it - I guess that happens even to the best? And ofc I have to learn (by doing) a lot for a better recource management, but that is not my real problem here.

Joy_Division

Zabagad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fossilize is strong, though I found more dangerous with the original Flame Lash mechanic. I'm almost positive Break Free interacts with GCDs (because of the old Eclipse skill).

The stun isn't a big deal. I think it's natural to dodge away, but I think there are times that's too passive and reeks a bit of desperation. If it's just the DK and you're not getting mobbed by a bunch of Xv1ers you could just stand there and fight. A DK could fossilize back, a templar could renew their ritual then (that was how I used it in my rotation fighting a DK), a sorc could use that opportunity to restack their shields, a Necro could say, "OK I'll fight here, have a boneyard." Because most of ESO's skills do not require you to be facing an opponent (big exception is Jabs), you can still fight effectively even when immobilized. What makes Fossilize most dangerous is when it's used by an Xv1ing DK, because that's the time you're going to want to LOS. At that point, well rounded builds should run some sort of snare/immobilization immunity so if it was not already up, after CC break is probably a good time to refresh that buff.

I suspect most of the time you're not doing anything "wrong," it's the Xv1 nature of the skill that is hard to deal with a lot of opponents.

You use "B" to break free? I used to bind it to a single key, but I've found binding it to mouse up (or down, depending on preference) is faster. Give it a try

Spell Wall, treat the same way as a DK with Corrosive, a Templar with Healing Ritual, or a Necro with Goliath: basically /sitchair until the ultimate falls off (though the DK you need to kite because Corrosive will kill you, but you get the point).

I don't have an issue with Spellwall because it isn't dangerous to me and thus opponents are usually just delaying their death. If you're not able to kill them in-between ultis, odds are it's because the player is just running a low damage "I don't want to die" build, which is the sort of personality that would slot this ulitmate in the first place. So, not a L2P issue, rather a learn when not to waste your time issue.

Even if you didn't quote me - I assume you speak to me
And even I was already done with that thread (specially with comments from people who were not reading my previous posts (or not good enough) - but so I have to answer your (again) usefull input.

Just to make it (to late) clear - I only had these problems with fossilize because there were 5+ others who are there - so yes it was Xvs1 (1 only in that second - in real it was XvsY).
(I only had one situation I can remember where I was in a 1vs1 situation and was hit by fossilize in all the other 20+ situations I was against a group)
In addition - the problem is that I have not much time in these situations and I tried to press all (to) fast and maybe was on GCD or the first break free wasnt accepted/recognised from the server.
So I was not sure if I even try the right counters - now I know that I have not a general understanding problem.

TY for the tip - but I have "break free" on my mouse since a long time already (but not on the mousewheel as I need more time to use that - but I guess this is too individual for a global "best to")

Spell Wall - my problem was almost always vs very strong player and the problem is for sure part of my build, as I have almost only projectile skills - but again I have no problem with it - Its ok when I cannot fight every fight...

To your list:
Corrosive: Costs 200 - haven't seen it often - is never casted in a "feels like spamable way".
Healing Ritual (not sure you mean Rite of Passage instead?): only 1sec and I can still attack - so makes no sence for me to compare.
Rite of Passage (just to get sure): I can still attack without hurting myself (even I would waste resources) and more important the caster cannot attack on his own like with the Spell Wall.
Goliath: I never had a situation with Goliath so far, but if I think about it, it looks like a mix of the other two, but the biggest differnce: 250 Ulti so after the 20s are done, there will be a much longer time before it will cast again.

So these moments against "very strong player" which can still attack me, and I can only go in a defensive mode stands unique for me in my view. Specially for my build - on a stam or as a templar I would not even think about

So again ty @Joy_Division - always appreciate your input!

Yeah I meant Healing Ritual.

OK, then yep, there isn't much you can do if your getting zerged and a Fossilize comes. Every class has an Xv1 special ability and that happens to be the DKs. Have to re-establish mobility immediately after breaking free.

These "Im not going to die ultimates" are unique in that you probably should go into defensive mode, but that's just the nature of the beast. If they didn;t do this they would be neigh worthless as ultimates. Except Corrosive, that's actually really strong. Doesn't get much play because Leap is so much cheaper.