Bound armorments needs a buff to be viable in pvp.

MCBIZZLE300

I understand when bringing out a new ability there is a risk of it bieng broken and op but bound armorments really needs a damage buff on the proc, as it stands it isn't even worth the resources of casting as many other abilities his twice maybe 3 times as hard and have little to no condition to activate. Double the damage to bound armorments or give it an aditional effect like applying poison and desease and this skill would be great. It feels great and the effect looks good but its massively under performing currently, compare it to merciless resolve or grim focus which are both devastating abilities when applied correctly.

HankTwo

Afaik, there are only 3 abilities in the entire game that have the potential to deal twice the amount of burst damage of 4 bound armaments daggers to a single target - if stats are equalized ofc - and they are all pretty conditional:

- Templars power of the light/purifying light fully loaded on a max resource build.
- Onslaught on a low penetration build against a very high resistance target.
- 2 ticks of templars radiant destruction channel against a very low health target (you need an average of at least + 362% damage between both ticks, which means the target needs to be on average lower than 12% health, and I'm not even counting the 8% max stamina bonus from bound armaments here).

Even a skill like executioner against a 1% health enemy doesn't get the damage of 2 * 4 daggers. So the premise of your argument doesn't really hold.

Furthermore, the skill comes with powerful passives attached. Not only does it increases your max stamina and light attack damage, it also gives stamsorcs access to the very strong daedric protection passive. All of this needs to be taken into account if you wanna estimate the strenght and usefulness of the skill as a whole. Imo, it is definitely worth a slot.

However - and this is the point where I somewhat agree with you - the actual cast of the skill is pretty unreliable. It's not the damage that is problematic, but the fact that it is very easy to avoid its full damage with a simple roll dodge, even if the timing of said roll was off. Skills like crystal fragments and NB bow proc are much more reliable when used directly after a stun, because their entire damage is bound to a single projectile. With bound armaments however, you can stun someone, then cast the daggers, but the target can still break free and dodge even after the first dagger hit to avoid 3/4 of the abilities damage.

So my proposal for this skill to work better is: make only the first dagger count if the ability gets dodged or not. If the first dagger hits, then all the daggers will deal damage, even if the target dodge rolls afterwards. If however the first dagger is dodged, then all the daggers are dodged. This would make the skill much more reliable, imo.

Edit: minor correction for the radiant destruction numbers and typos.

ThePhantomThorn

Well the main difference between grim focus and bound armaments is bound hits the target more than 0.01% of the time.

The Uninvited

I just wish we could get the purple glow back, instead of those stupid daggers flying above my head.

SodanTok

Literally the strongest nonultimate ability stamsorc can get yet this topic claims other abilities hit twice or 3 times more and the ability damage needs to be doubled. True, doubling the damage would mean you can just offload damage worth of 2.5 sub assault within 1s which would in certain sition help OP get kill from time to time.

MurderMostFoul

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

ThePhantomThorn

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Nyladreas

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Who said nightblades can't get the same treatment?

ThePhantomThorn

Nyladreas wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Who said nightblades can't get the same treatment?

my point is having auto buffs would make pvp easy. its not hard to click one button every 40 secs.

Nyladreas

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Who said nightblades can't get the same treatment?

my point is having auto buffs would make pvp easy. its not hard to click one button every 40 secs.

Both of these classes are escapist already and having a 40+ duration on any skill is already easy to keep up or refresh.

All it currently does is annoy the user at best. It's not defining skill in the least, especially on THESE 2 classes that need a whole lot more to actually be good at the game.

MurderMostFoul

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Nightblades actually receive a benefit from the buff while building up to an assassin's will. Stamsorc gets nothing but floating knives.

We also have to get all four of our knives within 10 seconds in order to get a full attack. Unlike nightblades who have 40 seconds to build up assassins will.

It's not hard, but it's annoying to manage.

ThePhantomThorn

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Nightblades actually receive a benefit from the buff while building up to an assassin's will. Stamsorc gets nothing but floating knives. It's not hard, annoying to manage.

thats not zos wiping your behind for you because your to lazy to hit a skill every 40 secs. also id like to add a few more things.
you can hit damage whenever you want.
its impossible to dodge the whole skill
and you have crit surge. magblade has nothing.
sorc is the class that zos literally pampers. play magblade and you will understand.

this should be on the merciless tooltip.
50% chance to be dodged
30% chance for it to disappear into oblivion
10% chance for it to do virtually no damage
5% chance for it to crash your game
4% chance for it to give you a loading screen
1% chance for it to hit and deal a good amount of damage.

MurderMostFoul

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Nightblades actually receive a benefit from the buff while building up to an assassin's will. Stamsorc gets nothing but floating knives. It's not hard, annoying to manage.

thats not zos wiping your behind for you because your to lazy to hit a skill every 40 secs. also id like to add a few more things.
you can hit damage whenever you want.
its impossible to dodge the whole skill
and you have crit surge. magblade has nothing.
sorc is the class that zos literally pampers. play magblade and you will understand.

this should be on the merciless tooltip.
50% chance to be dodged
30% chance for it to disappear into oblivion
10% chance for it to do virtually no damage
5% chance for it to crash your game
4% chance for it to give you a loading screen
1% chance for it to hit and deal a good amount of damage.

Don't forget to add this to the tooltip:

100% chance for you to die instantly the next time your opponent cast biting jabs.

ThePhantomThorn

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Remove the initial activation. Make the first light attack that you land on the bar with bound armaments slotted give you the 45 second buff that permits summoning additional daggers regardless of bar.

No more annoying double activation requirement, and for PVP, the 45 second timer would start at the beginning of an instance of combat.

oh ok. its not like nb needs to activate a skill. but of course sorc must have special treatment. whats next? an auto streak? auto heal?

Nightblades actually receive a benefit from the buff while building up to an assassin's will. Stamsorc gets nothing but floating knives. It's not hard, annoying to manage.

thats not zos wiping your behind for you because your to lazy to hit a skill every 40 secs. also id like to add a few more things.
you can hit damage whenever you want.
its impossible to dodge the whole skill
and you have crit surge. magblade has nothing.
sorc is the class that zos literally pampers. play magblade and you will understand.

this should be on the merciless tooltip.
50% chance to be dodged
30% chance for it to disappear into oblivion
10% chance for it to do virtually no damage
5% chance for it to crash your game
4% chance for it to give you a loading screen
1% chance for it to hit and deal a good amount of damage.

Don't forget to add this to the tooltip:

100% chance for you to die instantly the next time your opponent cast biting jabs.

ah yes. thats a given. they should put that in the character creation screen.

Crixus8000

I remember testing this on the pts and seeing how bad it was. Then I looked at the forums and everyone was saying how strong it is, many called it op. Well now on live I haven't met a single stamsorc who uses this skill, not for the activation anyway, because they all seem to agree that it sucks.

The activated ability is not worth using, It's a waste of stamina and a damage loss since you could have used something else in those 2 gcds.

It could be a cool skill that actually helps with stamsorc burst, something we don't have right now but sadly it's just useless in it's current state.

Iskiab

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I remember testing this on the pts and seeing how bad it was. Then I looked at the forums and everyone was saying how strong it is, many called it op. Well now on live I haven't met a single stamsorc who uses this skill, not for the activation anyway, because they all seem to agree that it sucks.

The activated ability is not worth using, It's a waste of stamina and a damage loss since you could have used something else in that gcd.

It could be a cool skill that actually helps with stamsorc burst, something we don't have right now but sadly it's just useless in it's current state.

It’s the light attack mechanic that makes it hard to pull off imo. Same goes for merciless.

It would have been better if there was a passive bonus for slotting it like merciless, but really copying the merciless mechanic instead of frags made it weaker. It’s a lot easier to cast anything and gain stacks then only from light attacks. As a guess you build stacks 3x slower from it being based on LAs then any ability.

Mudcrabjedi

Personally, as my secondary(ans main pvper) is a stamsorc, i think the skill is fine. No offense, i think this is a L2P issue.

Fur_like_snow

The ability is way to damn slow. Tried using it for a few weeks before taking it off my bar. Best part is the passive light attack damage but the projectiles are slow and often get dodged/shielded/heal thru. At least it looks cool?

Luede

the skill works perfectly on my pvp bow build, i dont think it needs a buff.

MCBIZZLE300

Mudcrabjedi wrote: »

Personally, as my secondary(ans main pvper) is a stamsorc, i think the skill is fine. No offense, i think this is a L2P issue.

I've mained stamsorc for 4 years, this is not an l2p issue it just doesnt hit hard enough compared to using a different ability, its alright as an optional extra but considering zenimax created it to give the class more identity it should pack more of a punch. Saying l2p is both belittleing and arrogant, non constructive but hidden as contructive critisism by saying no offense before it.

Luede

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

Mudcrabjedi wrote: »

Personally, as my secondary(ans main pvper) is a stamsorc, i think the skill is fine. No offense, i think this is a L2P issue.

I've mained stamsorc for 4 years, this is not an l2p issue it just doesnt hit hard enough compared to using a different ability, its alright as an optional extra but considering zenimax created it to give the class more identity it should pack more of a punch. Saying l2p is both belittleing and arrogant, non constructive but hidden as contructive critisism by saying no offense before it.

the skill hits with a delay, so u can create a nice burst in pvp and it works perfectly with crushing weapon. 10% more LA dmg, and 20% more sustain.

Maybe people should start to create there own builds and dont c&p Alcast stuff.

Zer0_CooL

Increase dragonleap up to 300% when enemy is below 25%HP

MCBIZZLE300

Luede wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

Mudcrabjedi wrote: »

Personally, as my secondary(ans main pvper) is a stamsorc, i think the skill is fine. No offense, i think this is a L2P issue.

I've mained stamsorc for 4 years, this is not an l2p issue it just doesnt hit hard enough compared to using a different ability, its alright as an optional extra but considering zenimax created it to give the class more identity it should pack more of a punch. Saying l2p is both belittleing and arrogant, non constructive but hidden as contructive critisism by saying no offense before it.

the skill hits with a delay, so u can create a nice burst in pvp and it works perfectly with crushing weapon. 10% more LA dmg, and 20% more sustain.

Maybe people should start to create there own builds and dont c&p Alcast stuff.

Surely no one actually uses alcast builds anymore, it sounds to me that your stamsorc build is very specific. My point is with a 2h build instead of casting it then casting it again you could just swing another dizzy and do more damage, it needs to be more worth while spending the stamina on because as it stands in my opinion it is not worth it. Even if it snared the enemy or something usefull it'd be more viable to use.

Fur_like_snow

Yeah I’m certain people defending it are just casting the skill from the middle of their faction zerg. Try using bound against a competent player in 1v1 with your bow build and tell me how that plays out.

Luede

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Yeah I’m certain people defending it are just casting the skill from the middle of their faction zerg. Try using bound against a competent player in 1v1 with your bow build and tell me how that plays out.

last time i was in a group in cyrodiil was 1 year ago...

@MCBIZZLE300 Yes the skill doesnt fit in a 2hand dizzy build and it doesnt fit in close combat builds. but that doesnt mean this skill is crap, its only situational usefull, like other skills too.

MCBIZZLE300

Luede wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Yeah I’m certain people defending it are just casting the skill from the middle of their faction zerg. Try using bound against a competent player in 1v1 with your bow build and tell me how that plays out.

last time i was in a group in cyrodiil was 1 year ago...

@MCBIZZLE300 Yes the skill doesnt fit in a 2hand dizzy build and it doesnt fit in close combat builds. but that doesnt mean this skill is crap, its only situational usefull, like other skills too.

yeh ok, so it doesnt fit a 2h build, the skill was designed to define stamsorc as it had little class identity yet its not effective for a lot of builds so i think we are both in agreement really that it should be buffed/changed.

Luede

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Yeah I’m certain people defending it are just casting the skill from the middle of their faction zerg. Try using bound against a competent player in 1v1 with your bow build and tell me how that plays out.

last time i was in a group in cyrodiil was 1 year ago...

@MCBIZZLE300 Yes the skill doesnt fit in a 2hand dizzy build and it doesnt fit in close combat builds. but that doesnt mean this skill is crap, its only situational usefull, like other skills too.

yeh ok, so it doesnt fit a 2h build, the skill was designed to define stamsorc as it had little class identity yet its not effective for a lot of builds so i think we are both in agreement really that it should be buffed/changed.

maybe they mean PvE and not PvP.

Neoauspex

This skill has awesome passives to boot. It's fine.

Crixus8000

Neoauspex wrote: »

This skill has awesome passives to boot. It's fine.

The skill is only used for the passives though. Yes they are nice, but the activated skill should at least be worth using, not totally useless like it is now.

The skill was actually nerfed though. It gave like 1% more light attack damage last patch ? And had an actually usable activation, unlike now.

TBois

The skill fits fine in a 2h build. You use it to keep sustained pressure for that split second when you are unable to stay in melee range or you have an opponent who is good at dodging dizzies. It's super cheap and it does do more damage than dizzy when fully procced despite what people in this thread have said. Go test it. It also give you access to 5 passives 20% stam recovery, 20% health recovery, 8% health, 8% stamina and 10% light attack damage.

Mudcrabjedi

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

Mudcrabjedi wrote: »

Personally, as my secondary(ans main pvper) is a stamsorc, i think the skill is fine. No offense, i think this is a L2P issue.

I've mained stamsorc for 4 years, this is not an l2p issue it just doesnt hit hard enough compared to using a different ability, its alright as an optional extra but considering zenimax created it to give the class more identity it should pack more of a punch. Saying l2p is both belittleing and arrogant, non constructive but hidden as contructive critisism by saying no offense before it.

Guess that did sound kindof douchy, but didn't mean it to. Still think the skill is fine though lol.