Shield Scaling

Hexys

Currently in PvP, to have a viable build on Magicka Sorcerer, you are required to run at least 45k Magicka. Due to all the nerfs the shields have received this is the threshold of being on the competitive side.

I would like for shields to have a higher base strength and scale less effective, meaning that it opens up more build diversity as stacking Max Magicka becomes less important.

@ZOS_Gilliam

Derra

Inb4 nerf sorc posts.

SJD_Phoenix

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Hexys

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

susmitds

I would rather have all heals nerfed to be similarly effective as shields as far as scaling goes. Tankiness is at an all time high.

KillsAllElves

susmitds wrote: »

I would rather have all heals nerfed to be similarly effective as shields as far as scaling goes. Tankiness is at an all time high.

It isnt just the healing its the resistance stacking thats ridiculous.

Shields take resistances into account since nerfmire right?

Juhasow

Or they could just give shields and pets regular scaling formula from both stats. That way they wouldn't have to redesign them every 3 months because it's either underwhelming or straight OP when someone goes for max magicka setup.

Rianai

I'd rather let shields scale with spell dmg in addition to max. magicka instead of increasing base strength. Having to investment less into offensive stats for defensive skills just opens up the opportunity for even more obnoxious tank builds.

SJD_Phoenix

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

Hexys

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

I probably have the most experience on Magicka Sorcerer in PvP of the whole game population. With over 200m AP as magsorc, 3 grand overlords while almost always playing in a competitive scene. So does @Derra.

It is a fact that you have to stack 45k+ Magicka in order to play competitive in Cyrodiil. This forces you to run alfiq, necro, btb or grace on any build and stops build diversity on Magicka Sorcerer.

Juhasow

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

I probably have the most experience on Magicka Sorcerer in PvP of the whole game population. With over 200m AP as magsorc, 3 grand overlords while almost always playing in a competitive scene. So does @Derra.

It is a fact that you have to stack 45k+ Magicka in order to play competitive in Cyrodiil. This forces you to run alfiq, necro, btb or grace on any build and stops build diversity on Magicka Sorcerer.

Well as someone so much experienced You should know more then anyone else then it's not as simple as just "make shields stronger and everything will be fine". Balance is not happening in a vacuum.

For example if ZoS will buff shields strenght but will keep matriarch heal the way it's right now well then it'll be also far from balanced.

And when it comes to scaling well there are certain limitations for it. Setting base value too high is also kinda problematic. This is propably why most of the abilities that scales with resources have pretty low base values.

Derra

Juhasow wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

I probably have the most experience on Magicka Sorcerer in PvP of the whole game population. With over 200m AP as magsorc, 3 grand overlords while almost always playing in a competitive scene. So does @Derra.

It is a fact that you have to stack 45k+ Magicka in order to play competitive in Cyrodiil. This forces you to run alfiq, necro, btb or grace on any build and stops build diversity on Magicka Sorcerer.

Well as someone so much experienced You should know more then anyone else then it's not as simple as just "make shields stronger and everything will be fine". Balance is not happening in a vacuum.

For example if ZoS will buff shields strenght but will keep matriarch heal the way it's right now well then it'll be also far from balanced.

And when it comes to scaling well there are certain limitations for it. Setting base value too high is also kinda problematic. This is propably why most of the abilities that scales with resources have pretty low base values.

His point is not to make shields stronger though - his point is to make their base value higher while reducing the scaling with the intended result of keeping the current strengh without limiting the class to virtually 5 armor sets that all do the same thing.

This would also reduce shield size for extreme mag stacking probably.

Idk if setting the base value too high is really that problematic - would it be truely problematic if a stamsorc reached a semi decent shield size?

Iskiab

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

I probably have the most experience on Magicka Sorcerer in PvP of the whole game population. With over 200m AP as magsorc, 3 grand overlords while almost always playing in a competitive scene. So does @Derra.

It is a fact that you have to stack 45k+ Magicka in order to play competitive in Cyrodiil. This forces you to run alfiq, necro, btb or grace on any build and stops build diversity on Magicka Sorcerer.

Well as someone so much experienced You should know more then anyone else then it's not as simple as just "make shields stronger and everything will be fine". Balance is not happening in a vacuum.

For example if ZoS will buff shields strenght but will keep matriarch heal the way it's right now well then it'll be also far from balanced.

And when it comes to scaling well there are certain limitations for it. Setting base value too high is also kinda problematic. This is propably why most of the abilities that scales with resources have pretty low base values.

His point is not to make shields stronger though - his point is to make their base value higher while reducing the scaling with the intended result of keeping the current strengh without limiting the class to virtually 5 armor sets that all do the same thing.

This would also reduce shield size for extreme mag stacking probably.

Idk if setting the base value too high is really that problematic - would it be truely problematic if a stamsorc reached a semi decent shield size?

I’m not sure, don’t play one. I’d open up tank sorc builds, with the complaints about people being tanky and shields not being effected by defile, it’d likely be a hard sell.

brandonv516

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

I probably have the most experience on Magicka Sorcerer in PvP of the whole game population. With over 200m AP as magsorc, 3 grand overlords while almost always playing in a competitive scene. So does @Derra.

It is a fact that you have to stack 45k+ Magicka in order to play competitive in Cyrodiil. This forces you to run alfiq, necro, btb or grace on any build and stops build diversity on Magicka Sorcerer.

Well as someone so much experienced You should know more then anyone else then it's not as simple as just "make shields stronger and everything will be fine". Balance is not happening in a vacuum.

For example if ZoS will buff shields strenght but will keep matriarch heal the way it's right now well then it'll be also far from balanced.

And when it comes to scaling well there are certain limitations for it. Setting base value too high is also kinda problematic. This is propably why most of the abilities that scales with resources have pretty low base values.

His point is not to make shields stronger though - his point is to make their base value higher while reducing the scaling with the intended result of keeping the current strengh without limiting the class to virtually 5 armor sets that all do the same thing.

This would also reduce shield size for extreme mag stacking probably.

Idk if setting the base value too high is really that problematic - would it be truely problematic if a stamsorc reached a semi decent shield size?

It was just a bit of a problem when Bone Shield was scaling off Max Stamina, so my guess is yes.

PhoenixGrey

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

That's the problem, it's just borderline viable right now.

xAcrania

For console shields are atrocious. I feel forced to use a pet, as non pet builds for solo on console just arent viable regardless of what any other console player says. Not only are shields still weak with a pet, la into a shield or ani canceling shields dont work. Sure take my magicka but dont give me the shield. I totally disagree with how shields were nerfed. They need to be looked at, no magick class even uses a shield anymore. Sorcs are forced too. Before nerfmire imo all they needed to do was make shields crittable. With a 12-13k hardened and 10k dampen (without adding the %) is just not strong enough in this patch. Stam class with nma fury and infused jewlery reaching 8k weapon damage with 2k recov 30k health whilst using onslaught is a problem not talked about

pieratsos

brandonv516 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t see the problem, especially when it comes to hardened ward.

I don’t have a single piece of arcane jewelry yet still manage to reach a 10k shield.

Maybe you need to figure out a better build?

Exactly, 10k is not competitive.

I do just fine.

I probably have the most experience on Magicka Sorcerer in PvP of the whole game population. With over 200m AP as magsorc, 3 grand overlords while almost always playing in a competitive scene. So does @Derra.

It is a fact that you have to stack 45k+ Magicka in order to play competitive in Cyrodiil. This forces you to run alfiq, necro, btb or grace on any build and stops build diversity on Magicka Sorcerer.

Well as someone so much experienced You should know more then anyone else then it's not as simple as just "make shields stronger and everything will be fine". Balance is not happening in a vacuum.

For example if ZoS will buff shields strenght but will keep matriarch heal the way it's right now well then it'll be also far from balanced.

And when it comes to scaling well there are certain limitations for it. Setting base value too high is also kinda problematic. This is propably why most of the abilities that scales with resources have pretty low base values.

His point is not to make shields stronger though - his point is to make their base value higher while reducing the scaling with the intended result of keeping the current strengh without limiting the class to virtually 5 armor sets that all do the same thing.

This would also reduce shield size for extreme mag stacking probably.

Idk if setting the base value too high is really that problematic - would it be truely problematic if a stamsorc reached a semi decent shield size?

It was just a bit of a problem when Bone Shield was scaling off Max Stamina, so my guess is yes.

Apples and oranges. Bone shield costs Stam not mag and increasing its base size does not mean scaling off max Stam.

Kadoin

I don't even slot shields in pvp on any mag char since the changes.

Gilvoth

in that case we will need the return of oblivion damage and shield breaker set.

MEBengalsFan2001

I think one way to resolve many of the issues between PVP and PVE is simply have all abilities be 50% effective in PVP and have PVP only gear that is gimp when used in PVE or gimp PVE gear that may provide unfair advantage in PVP.

I know one game where the devs completely revamped the game and it made PVP fun again but it gimp PVE and when they fixed PVE it killed PVP. That always seems to be the case when a MMO has both and both have gear that can be shared.

Ozazz

SO WAIT IS THIS A THREAD ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ARE WANTING A CHANGE PRIOR TO THE CHANGE THEYVE IMPLEMENTED? NOOOOOOOOO WAYYYYYYYYYYYY ITS ALMOST LIKE EVERY PATCH THAT GOES THROUGH THIS GAME REGRESSES!!!!!

GrigorijMalahevich

Just waiting for this to become a nerfsorc thread

P.S. no idea why anyone is still playing magsorc, cannot burst anyone, can’t sustain, completely not fun to play...